ZSS Video Critique Thread!

[Dakpo]

Ill have to PM you my critique on illmatic since I really don't feel telling him my peach secrets

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Nice improvement V115.

XOXO!TM

 

[BioDG]

Dear god I got my *** handed to me game 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzAuetDb0lM
Help against Ally please

Edit: And Holy too I guess
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okaMHsxz47w
That's game 2 and game 3, game 1 didn't get uploaded for some reason.

Vs Ally

You played Game 2 very well. Snake could've been challenged more from the ground in game 1 but you did so in game 3. A great mixup can be uncharged nB from long range to harass walking approaches...which snake tends to do. Nothing else I can think of but I'm sure others will have more to say.

Vs Holy

it looked like it was just...the matchup? Maybe its just me but I feel like we shouldn't be challenging Rob offstage so much (both edgeguarding and recovery). His movement may be slow and straightforward on recovery but his quick ground/aerial options can easily keep us away if we get in his face and he can use those same options well on edgeguarding...esp. when they can push us in a low recovery position. IMO, this makes conservative recovery/edgeguarding more important to the MU and I didn't see much of this. This should explain the gimps and some of the damage you received. I am confident you will beat his ROB if you play it a little bit safer on ledge play.

As for overall things, don't forget about special footstool or empty downB for a safe landing option (which may have helped vs holy). Also, your spacing with dash grab is usually not close enough and grabbing while at high percents is very risky and usually gets us into trouble of course. Finally, be careful with offstage tricksies lol (I have to work on this too tho)

Hopefully I helped since I am not the best at these. Extremely smart ZSS and easily among the best I have seen. Very clutch 2nd stock kill on holy game 3 and you did an amazing job on rainbow cruise.

------

On a slightly unrelated note: why is special footstool to wavebounce B used so much among us? I always see ZSS players run into bad or extremely odd positioning after doing it and when they do land the attack there was little payoff.

 

[infiniteV115]

Well everyone wanted to do it because they saw Salem do it, because Salem. I, however, kept to only doing it if I saw my opponent dash in the initial direction of my footstool, cause I figured that's the only way it'd hit.

I should pay more attention to where I'm going to land when I do that lol.

I really feel like I could have won game 3, but I pretty much SDed twice.

 

[NickRiddle]

I have been doing it forever, but I have cut down on it recently. It is just fun to move that fast.

 

[Paw]

http://youtu.be/B64ymTqKEp4
vs wario

any advice would be nice

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

In that MU i find it good to use jab one alot. it stops alot of his aerials.

 

[BioDG]

http://youtu.be/B64ymTqKEp4
vs wario

any advice would be nice

Mink loves jab lol.

-You should be using bairs and uairs more often unless you have a good read so that you are challenging Wario's horizontal mobility more than you are running into it.

-Be extra careful about recovering low, too. Wario will ALWAYS be looking for that low waft.

-Also, don't throw away grab release opportunities with a dthrow or something similar (this happened pretty often). Buffer the dsmash. If you aren't confident in your buffering or if his bike isn't out, just upB spike him and punish his reaction. We should be dealing a decent amount of damage almost every time we grab Wario.

 

[infiniteV115]

Wario's heavy, so if you air release--> fair, both hits will connect for quite a large % interval.

Unless the Wario SDIs it of course, but whether they do that is up to you to figure out. Remember, fresh fair does 17%.

If you think you won't be able to land both hits, use nair. Or bair if that extra 3% is important, but I'd advise against staling bair.

 

[PEACE7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uot8zxufp6U

 

[.EXE]

@ PEACE everything was excellent I saw that you were doing however when you had the stock lead and he was at kill %'s and i know you wanted that kill what you could have done was pressure him with Neutral B or charged (I always recommend uncharged) I think it trades if he throws a banana.

On a side note that diddyknog needs to use SOME peanuts.

@V115 I watched your video against Ally same thing where are the lasers but you already got critiqued and I'm trash so you don't have to listen. Anyways a lot of retreating reversal Neutral B's like you taught me was not being done in that match against snake. That is all other than I hate snake snake= free wins F tilt sucks and his grab range is somewhat phenomenal I mean the crap i see come out of him makes me laugh hysterically.

 

[PEACE7]

Thanks a lot .Exe also i had no idea uncharged nb traded with the banana throw thanks man.

 

[infiniteV115]

Peace I'll critique your set tomorrow and edit it into this post. Right now I have to study for tomorrow's exam but I think I have some good advice.

 

[PEACE7]

That sounds great man

 

[.EXE]

Thanks a lot .Exe also i had no idea uncharged nb traded with the banana throw thanks man.

Depending on the throw you can pick it up with a buffered A but this also depends on where it lands I believe it has to be landing right at your feet and I mean right at the spot where you can pick it up. It happened to me once when I was playing a diddy decent with naners he threw but I used neutral B I buffered a dash attack but kinda failed on it so instead I ended up getting the banana in hand.

I was so confused but was like I'll take it.

 

[BioDG]

Ill have to PM you my critique on illmatic since I really don't feel telling him my peach secrets

Are you still up for this? I could sure use the insight! D:

 

[Dakpo]

yea PM, the videos

 

[BioDG]

vs Trelacario: www.youtube.com/watch?v=p22Z2FFibE8

Game 3

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

ChoZo :ssbbfalco: vs. quiksilver :ssbbzss:

quiksilver :ssbbzss: vs. Luigi_player :ssbbdiddy:

WF: quiksilver :ssbbzss: vs. cyve :ssbbdiddy:

LF: Luigi_player :ssbbdiddy: vs. quiksilver :ssbbzss:

GF: cyve :ssbbdiddy: vs. quiksilver :ssbbzss:
--
Nearly everything Diddy lmao (all Sets are from one tournament). If you ask me, I was in a good mood. And i am pretty satisfied with all Sets (except the crappy GF, it was 3AM in the morning).
I hope you have fun, and would love some critique, so i can get better.

 

[infiniteV115]

I have no Diddy experience so I'll only critique the vid against Falco (which you won). You're probably better than me too, so...keep that in mind when reading my advice.

-Your jab1-->run away pivot grab is awesome. I'm going to steal that.
-I feel like in general, you're too afraid of Falco when your armor is out, and I feel like it's because of his reflector. Keep in mind that his reflector is very laggy AND that ZSS' sideB outranges his reflector.
I find that jump away-->b reversed sideB toward Falco is a good away to bait and punish his reflector.
-I think you could have shot more lasers at him while he was recovering.
-Keep dash attack-->utilt and dash attack lock in mind when punishing. I saw a few times when those options would have earned you some more damage on the opponent.
-You approached with running shield a bit too much.

Other than that, I don't really know what to say. Maybe you should start using run away-->pivot laser? Not saying it's necessary, but maybe it's something you should try.

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

-Your jab1-->run away pivot grab is awesome. I'm going to steal that.

Thanks, but dont use it too often. You should know why. Another good possibility is after jab1 dashing behind the enemy and pivot grab. When you predict, the enemy could dodge the grab with a spotdodge then, punish it with a Dsmash.

-I feel like in general, you're too afraid of Falco when your armor is out, and I feel like it's because of his reflector. Keep in mind that his reflector is very laggy AND that ZSS' sideB outranges his reflector.
I find that jump away-->b reversed sideB toward Falco is a good away to bait and punish his reflector.

Very good critique, thanks.

-I think you could have shot more lasers at him while he was recovering.

Dunno, sometimes the laser is useless on Falco's Side-B. But i still don't have a good tactic for punishing his recovery, so i dont know better..

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

What Salem does is run to the middle of the stage, then do a fully charge BReverse Laser, then run towards the ledge with a dash attack. It's really good.

Good matches, Quik. Good ****!

 

[DeLux]

Sooooo many diddy's lol

 

[infiniteV115]

More like 2 Diddies but okay

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

What Salem does is run to the middle of the stage, then do a fully charge BReverse Laser, then run towards the ledge with a dash attack. It's really good.

legit

Good matches, Quik. Good ****!

Thanks but.. i can't do anything with a compliment.

I need critique (look at the Sets vs. Cyve, should be the best for analyzing). Especially like basic things i keep doing wrong and wrong again, that's the most important.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Well, one thing is try to avoid Lylat in the striking process. (talking about GF here)

FD > LC > SV > BF > YI

Our worst stage to best stage, imo. LC makes it really hard to land and is easily worse for us than for them because you also lose armor pieces really quick etc XD
Rising aerials are harder etc. I dunno, I don't like it but that's just me. I always try to go to YI or BF. (then again I haven't played forever so stuff might've changed >_> )
It also makes your downB do the walljump which gimps you

Also, you like to dSmash on platforms a lot, but if your opponents see it it's easily punishable. Eventually you have to come down from the platform and that's when Diddy can get you hard. Or they go straight below you and avoid dSmash, so try to stop doing that too much. It's good every so often though and people who are aggro ;D

(just a note: you've gotten a lot better since I last saw you at BiB2, more patience, I like it)

If he throws a banana start SDI'ing behind him to avoid the fSmash second hit. If he dSmashes and you hold behind him, you DI properly too, so it's pretty safe.

You should try dash attack > roll behind instead of dash attack > spotdodge on low percents.

You can downB > footstool on the peanuts and then do the forward jump, which instantly gets you in his range. If he keeps shooting peanuts, you can even punish it with a dair. It's really funny!

If Dash Attack makes the opponent go in the air, either shield if you expect a fair (a falling fair can be punished with two dsmashes!) or dsmash if you expect an airdodge. If they jump away then you lose nothing and you are still in a good situation.

I just watched game 1. I'll post more if you want to haha.

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

really good stuff, too lazy to comment it lol but i like it xD keep going <:
ps: but pls don't say a single word to the double sd on fd lmao

 

[Solharath]

Hey guys, these are some older videos of my buddy(he's actually gotten a little better, but he falls into the same old tropes from time to time). He picked up and loves playing Zero Suit Samus, but no matter how much I egg him on, he never gets on these boards and looks for guidance, even though he knows he should. Thus, I'm forcing him into it.

Super (Fox) vs. Robjoe (Zero Suit Samus)
http://youtu.be/YfeFp4bfq0U

Super (Mario) vs. Robjoe (Zero Suit Samus)
http://youtu.be/NJbbg9VSJQ4

He has some unuploaded videos he needs to get uploaded so you guys can see how he plays now. Our friendlies can get pretty heated, so they should be a good spot to see where his usual game comes in. I just wanna let you guys know he can and has performed better than me in a tournament, and was able to make bracket at a 50+ man tournament. We're still scrubs, don't get me wrong, but I'd be happy if you guys can give him some pointers where he is absolutely failing.

 

[infiniteV115]

I'm going to speak in 2nd person instead of 3rd cause it's easier.

-It seemed like when you had a suitpiece in your hand, you felt like your only option was to throw it at your opponent. Keep in mind that this isn't the case, you can still use sideB/neutral B with suitpieces, and even when you throw them you don't have to throw them AT your opponent (you can throw them up/down to cause them to bounce, which can help pressure your opponent)

-I know Fox is kinda scary cause he has a reflector, but it's a 2-way street; if you can bait Fox into using his reflector before you throw a suitpiece at him, you can hit him with a sideB for a quick 19% (and now Fox is above you in the air, which is a postitional disadvantage for him). You can also throw your suitpiece up/down and grab him, or dsmash, or dtilt, or w/e. Fox's reflector, while good, is punishable.

-Dunno if you know this already, but if you dsmash Fox at 0%, you can chain the dsmashes into each other until like 100% and Fox can't do anything about it if you get the timing right. You might want to practice that. Pretty sweet if you can bait a reflector and punish with a dsmash.

-You were rolling a lot, especially at the beginning. I don't know if you were just screwing up your glidetosses, but you were rolling a lot. If you WERE, keep in mind that ZSS CANNOT glide toss with her back roll. She can only glide toss with her forward roll.

-To add on to the last point, you seem to roll and spotdodge habitually. Building up habits like these are bad because rolling and spotdodging ARE predictable, and punishable. Especially with a character like Fox with such a good running speed, he can probably just punish with a dash attack-->utilt or running usmash ON reaction, and I'm sure you know how strong his usmash is.
Shield more; let them hit your shield, and punish with a dtilt/dash attack, or even utilt if they're close enough.
Oh, and back roll is REALLY bad, since it's even longer (duration time, not distance) than forward roll and it has roughly the same amount of invincibility. You should almost never use back roll.

- Everytime you popped your opponent up in the air with dtilt, you went for an immediate aerial, and you kept missing cause the opponent airdodged immediately. Mix up the timing a bit, and bait and punish air dodges. Try dtilt-->wait for airdodge-->dsmash/any aerial. Or dtilt-->wait for them to hit your shield-->utilt. Mix it up; doing the same thing over and over will NOT work against good players.
Same goes for her uair; if you get your opponent into an uair juggle, bait and punish airdodges with more uairs.

- You seemed to approach a LOT with bair, and as a result your bair was hitting your opponent more than anything else. Bair IS a good move, but using the same move over and over will cause it to go stale (decreased damage and knockback). Bair is arguably our best kill move, and if it's stale it's gonna be really hard to kill your opponent, because you'll pretty much have to hope to land a dsmash/sideB and given how slow those moves are they're kinda unreliable. ESPECIALLY against a character as mobile as Fox.

-In the air, you were very predictable. You threw out airdodges ASAP, so the Fox player was able to just throw out aerial after aerial and harass you in the air. Try throwing out some counter-offense with a nair/fair/bair (maybe even dair but this is risky), or mixing up the timing of your airdodges. Just don't be predictable.

-Mario can't really approach well. Mario players tend to approach with short hop fireballs, so wait for him to jump, then run under and uair, and juggle the crap out of him. Rinse and repeat.

-Lastly, work on your uair spacing. Uair is arguably ZSS' best move and is one of the best moves in the game. When the uair spaced and timed properly, you shouldn't be getting hit by an opponent that's above you and in the air, unless they're holding an item or it's a Lucario with really strong aura, and a few other exceptions that aren't Fox/Mario.

 

[DeLux]

I have some doubles sets that I'd like critiqued. The top one is the most recent from a tournament I just went to in Colorado. The rest are a month old from Vengeance. Took 3rd and 4th respectively:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5ilhKRPi5A Fishbait and Bees with MJG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwSHWbyCppM Overswarm + Kel with Fae
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJNrBYX2_4o Luckay + Krystedez with Fae
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ce9-pkyuas Ally and Logic with Fae
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOhd0enj8rQ MJG + Kain with Fae
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ram1LHn2nxI Overswarm + Kel with Fae

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

My recovery game, punish game and messing up grabs etc is terrible. My recovery I've been working a lot on and it went better last time I was at his place, so I'm cool with that atm.
But outside of that I'd like some critique.

bo5
vs Marth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyVOYarBkFA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF2v_NpImeg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkEcM6PKzvM (lol that ballsy ending)

bo5
vs MK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5uPM9eO9uc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuhgSIoyxXk (added for the sake of completion)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuTGBbxMzUA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxFGg-5tT5w

bo5
vs Snake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5f2-MN9oJo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAIKXqZuS1s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FNGntr2NIY

 

[infiniteV115]

I'm only gonna critique the Marth vids cause I'm not good at the Snake/MK MU.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyVOYarBkFA

0:01 Pink, good choice
0:03 Glide toss down-->reverse dash attack? I know it's fun but it's never worth it, not with suitpieces. Even if you do connect with the suitpiece, you'll probably only hit with the sourspot of DA. Go for glide toss down--> uair, I'm pretty sure it's a true combo and if you miss it's pretty safe.
0:06 You jumped PAST your suitpieces (didn't pick them up) and then tried to hit him with a landing 1st hit fair? I'm sure I don't have to explain to you why landing 1st hit fair is a bad approach, but if your opponent has one of your suitpieces, so should you. Make it a priority to grab a hold of a suitpiece when you're opponent has gotten one of yours and isn't throwing it away.
0:25 that was not at all the right spacing for dash grab. Dash grab can be hard to space cause even after you press grab, ZSS moves forward quite a bit.
A dash attack would have been better in that position.
0:41 If you had fallen towards the stage and tried to grab the edge instead of just falling straight down and trying to hit him with a laser, you probably would have lived.
1:14 Fsmash? I'll assume it's an input error
In general for your entire 2nd stock, Mr.R was approaching with full hop falling aerials, and whenever he approached with sh falling aerials it wasn't a spaced fair, but usually an uair, sometimes a nair. He wasn't really spacing well. You should try simply getting under him and starting uair juggles, or running under and behind him-->pivot nB, it might hit him as he lands.
Also, I see a lot of dashing away, but you never seem to go for dash away-->pivot dsmash.
1:36 ok this is where you're trying to recover, I think you should have tried to tether ASAP.
3rd stock..yeah damn. It's Mr.R, what can I say, you were getting outplayed quite a bit. I saw him hit your shield with unspaced, landing aerials quite a bit but not once did I see you try to punish with utilt OoS.

Uh, I hope I helped. I'll try doing the other 2 later if somebody hasn't done them already, but for now I'm gonna go eat breakfast.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Thanks man. Yeah I **** up a lot of grab inputs (at 0:25 I wanted a pivot grab >_>) and even fSmash looool. Thanks for the pointers on recovery. I think I mess up all my breverse shots too >_>

Also nair, fair and uair all can't be punished with utilt OoS. Marth is pretty safe on our shield.

Thanks though. I really need to work on the rust haha.

 

[NickRiddle]

OOS fair/uair/bair that *****!
I'll probably critique yours and quik's vids this weekend.
Not going to critique the new guy who has gotten better, because old vids apparently.
Not going to critique doubles vids either.

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

nice!

the next weeks i will post vids from a smashfest i had today. you can see there my current zss in some matchups, especially the snake mu. i think i can give you some good ideas for your gameplay, but i want critique too ofc

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Okay, haha. I have been really busy and will be really busy this week, so bear with me.

 

[Dakpo]

I might be able to critique, Sorry for not getting back to on the whole upsmash thing on the German smash boards

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

I might be able to critique, Sorry for not getting back to on the whole upsmash thing on the German smash boards

no problem. the last weeks i found your message again, and i began to work on usmash oos. in some situations it is a reaaally good move.
also i would appreciate your critique

 

[NickRiddle]

Okay, I'm going to do these now.
As per usual, going to take only a couple of matches per person.
I'm also going to probably end up double-posting.
Deal with it.

 

[infiniteV115]

lolinb4nickpostslolnodoublepost4ulol