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ZSS Video Critique Thread!

Tesh

Tesh

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
9,737
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TX
Iono, someone did that to me and I caught on and just hit him with my nair instead of airdodging or jumping. Strong mixup tho, Dsmash just isn't fair.

:/
 
shlike

shlike

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
896
Location
Brownsville, Tx (RGV)
What's the input for breversal wavebounced sideb? you did it in the match... i have no idea how to do it :(

also dakpo i promise i will do your critique. I'm just busy atm :(
 
Cygnet

Cygnet

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 11, 2011
Messages
115
FEAR977

FEAR977

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 10, 2010
Messages
138
@ Cygnet

Don't jump and then immediately use your down b. If you get knocked off stage before you touch the ground, you run the risk of being edge guarded. This cost you your first stock against the Marth.

When snake uses his c4 to recover and you go to footstool him, use down b then footstool. It's easier.

When juggling snake use more uair than up b. Remember you want him above you, not below you.

That's all I have to say really. Great matches

:phone:
 
Zifien

Zifien

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
1
I'm relatively new and hoping to get better so I was recommend to come to you guys ^^"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZhdR_QQp6U

I know i should of uaired from the first gimp but overall I need help with the rest.
I'd post more videos of me but I rather get one matchup at a time.
 
infiniteV115

infiniteV115

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 14, 2010
Messages
6,445
Location
In the rain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyq39eNFnkw
Ok seriously, how the **** do you approach Olimar?
This guy is pretty much #1 in my region now that MK is banned (was #2), and he's the only guy that can still beat me hard. Though I'm beginning to go even with his secondary (Falco ;))

This was an experimental tourney with Norfair, JJ and GGs added to the CP list.

Edit: To anyone that critiques, you can just ignore the 2nd match.
 
infiniteV115

infiniteV115

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 14, 2010
Messages
6,445
Location
In the rain.
Nau said:
I'd like you to critique a friend of mine, who obviously mains zss. He's kinda new so don't be too bad to him. I'll tell him whatever you say he should improve/change.
Friendly match:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIjFCe6yNN8&feature=channel_video_title
Tournament match:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40yFiDTfwYI&feature=g-all
Thanks.
Click to expand...
I know it was your friend, but I'm gonna type "you" instead of "your friend" so you can copy and paste this stuff to him.

-You need to dsmash more. I don't think you EVER landed it in the tournament set. Dsmash is a very important part of ZSS' metagame, as it helps you combo (to build up percent, gain good positioning, etc) AND it helps you kill. I know it's kinda slow, but you have to predict with it. Punish landings, rolls, spotdodges, badly spaced moves, etc with it.

-You depend too much on paralyzers (lasers) and sideB. At times, you would hit with the paralyzer, and then not follow up. Paralyzer>dash attack, or paralyzer>grab are good. SideB is a good move, but you shouldn't be depending on it.

-You need to improve on your item (suitpieces) game, items are supposed to help you get a good lead. Learn to glide toss, use a bouncing item to your advantage, do your best to keep your opponent from getting control of them. If they do, catch the item.

-You fight on the ground too much. ZSS has one of the best (if not the best) aerial games out of all the characters in Brawl, yet 95% of the aerials you landed were bair (back aerial). Use them all (except for dair, that should rarely be used)
Seriously, ZSS' uair is godlike. Learn to juggle with that, utilt and usmash. You want your opponent above you, so you can **** with uair. Wait for your opponents airdodge, then punish with uair (but space it properly). It's a little harder against Peach but you can still do it, especially since Peach has the worst airdodge in the game.
Fair's 2nd hit has higher knockback than bair, and both hits of fair add to do 17%, which is amazing. Remember what I said about you not using dsmash at all? At lower percents, use dsmash x2-->fair, it does 39%!

-You used bair so much that it was stale (moves get weaker the more often they are used), and the same happened with your sideB. You also barely used any other aerials and never used dsmash, so bair and sideB were your only kill options, and since they were stale, you had trouble killing.

-You back roll too much. Avoid using back roll, cause forward roll is better. You also spotdodge too much.

You need to use dash attack and dsmash better, so this is how you do it
[COLLAPSE="How to use dash attack"]Dash attack
-When your opponent is at really really low percents (~ 0-15%, character dependent), only dash attack.
-When their damage is between ~15-DAL percents (35-45, depends on character), use dash attack-->utilt. Utilt does like 12% and now your opponent is above you.
-When your opponent is at DAL percents, obviously DAL. When you get to the end of the stage, finish with utilt (for the above reasons).

DAL = dash attack lock. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pItF4Sa5NHY[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="How to use dsmash"]Dsmash
-At lower percents, dsmash x2-->fair. Like I said, it does 39% (which, if conveniently landed at 0, sets them up for the DAL!) The percents at which this combo works depends on various things, like staleness of dsmash/fair, opponent's weight, opponent's size, etc, but usually this works if the first dsmash is landed between 0-50.
-At higher (but not quite kill percents), use dsmash x3-->uair (if uair is stale), or dsmash x2--> nair if your dsmash is too stale to get in the former combo.
-At kill percents, your options are
1) - dsmash x3-->uair
2) - dsmash x2-->bair
3) - dsmash x2-->2nd hit fair (DON'T hit with the first hit of fair)
4) - dsmash ---->partially charged fsmash (*see pink text)
You can use whichever you like. Make the decision based on how confident you are in the timing for the combo and how stale each move is.

Edgeguarding with dsmash
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KojNS1UuaOo
[/COLLAPSE]

Read this guide , it'll give a general idea of how good each move is and when to use each move. Everything in there is accurate, except for a few things (see link in pink text)
Those few things are
-Fsmash is weak
-Fair is weaker than bair

If you have any questions, think about the question first, then decide whether it belongs in this thread or the Q&A thread (questions and answers)


*http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=305323
This is about how to kill with fsmash, sort of.
Basically, that hitbox (the one on the right) of fsmash is always your strongest kill option, cause fsmash never stales. However, if you hit with any other part of it, fsmash is weak.
If you're uncomfortable with it, just stick with bair/2nd hit fair I guess.

Just to make sure you understand everything
fair = forward aerial
bair = back aerial
dsmash = down smash
etc etc
 
Nau

Nau

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
19
Thanks for telling him all this amazing stuff, he has already started practicing some of the things!
He finds everything useful, though we didn't really underestand one thing: when you said he had to use forward roll instead of back roll, did you mean he had to use roll to place himself behind the enemy or he had to use forward roll to escape (as it's 10 frames faster than back roll)?
Well, let's see what happens, i suppose he will improve a lot in some months. I'll be posting some other videos whenever we record them so you see if he has changed some of the mistakes.
 
infiniteV115

infiniteV115

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 14, 2010
Messages
6,445
Location
In the rain.
Nau said:
He finds everything useful, though we didn't really underestand one thing: when you said he had to use forward roll instead of back roll, did you mean he had to use roll to place himself behind the enemy or he had to use forward roll to escape (as it's 10 frames faster than back roll)?
Click to expand...
The latter. Forward roll is better because it's 10 frames faster, so it's harder to punish.
Don't think of this as "you should always roll behind your enemy", though. Rolling behind your enemy IS a good mix-up at times, but you shouldn't make it a habit.

Basically, (froll is better because it's harder to punish) is what I was getting at. So stick to froll, but don't get predictable with it.
 
infiniteV115

infiniteV115

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In the rain.
Yeah. It's easiest if you turn with control stick, then roll with C-stick.

eg I'm facing right and I want to froll left
Inputs would go
Control stick: left
Shield
C-stick: left

Papa Mink...Mama Pink?:awesome:
 
J

Jin_Kisaragi

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 15, 2011
Messages
1
Hi, thank you very much for the advices . Currently I am BlazBlue player, but a like Brawl, so I decided to play a little more this game. I'll try these stuff that you explain me the next time.

Jin.
 
infiniteV115

infiniteV115

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Messages
6,445
Location
In the rain.
I'm assuming the reason you didn't use your suitpieces much is because you were afraid that the Diddy was better with items?
Anyway, I'll try to stay away from MU related stuff cause I have almost no experience with this MU

I think you were a little too passive. A lot of the time you were pretty far away from him, shooting lasers. And when you did hit him with the laser, you weren't ready to follow up.
You relied WAY too much on shorthop fastfall aerials, and you seemed to have trouble with the timing for them.
You never properly punished after a dsmash. I don't think you ever did dsmash x2 --> anything, it was always dsmash x1.
You need to use your tilts more. When you got in, your were either rolling away, using shff aerials or missing a dsmash. Dtilt is awesome, man.

Was this on Wifi?

And I think you stale your bair way too much. I mean look at its knockback at 2:29, it's supposed to be a kill move.
 
PEACE7

PEACE7

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
2,213
Location
Training Mode
no it wasnt wifi lol i feel horrible and i got no idea why i didnt use my pieces.
I was trying to upair after i landed my dsmashes but didn't space them right. Inever do dsmashX2 for some reason idk i just immediately go for something else i need to change that but thanks for the tips man.
 
infiniteV115

infiniteV115

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
6,445
Location
In the rain.
Is it that after you land a dsmash, you don't know what you should do, panic, and end up going for an uair?

If so, scroll up and in a giant post I made to critique someone else, you'll see I made a little collapse box called "How to use dsmash"
Just stick to what's outlined in there and you should be fine.
 
PEACE7

PEACE7

Smash Champion
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No I usually go for a nair to buffered upB and lots of back air lol I need to mix it up, i guess it's just I'm not very used to fighting diddy as ZSS.
 
NickRiddle

NickRiddle

#negativeNick
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#HBC | ZoZo

#HBC | ZoZo

Shocodoro Blagshidect
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Biggest thing you should work on is instead of playing purely on planning, add some reaction in there too.

edit: teach Ally to edgeguard/gimp ZSS because he's let you on way too many times. In turn, you can learn to properly recover.
 
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