ZSS General Discussion

[Kewkky]

Make her weak sideB hitbox (the one close to her) be a very powerful spike! Yeaaaa pretty useless but meh, if it slams people on the floor we can take it from there. :D

And make her jab1 paralyze like a weak Paralyzer hit. That way opponent's can't SDI/Powershield it and punish us for it.

Still, something unique... Make her fsmash send opponents behind her instead of in a normal trayectory, and maybe paralyze them as much as a charged Paralyzer shot, maybe even a dsmash stun? She should have some paralyzer stun here and there to make her truly unique, since it WAS made just for her.

 

[ph00tbag]

Make fsmash break shields. Give us a reason to use it. I dunno, ZSS is already fairly unique, being the only character that uses a whip.

 

[Zero]

Holy crap. The AiB ZSS boards are deader than ours. Now that's saying something lol.

 

[solecalibur]

Holy crap. The AiB ZSS boards are deader than ours. Now that's saying something lol.

AIB's chat is dead in general tbh

 

[Zero]

I only even looked at the forums because a friend was ranting about how stupid their Tier list discussion is. It's so bad. >.>

 

[ph00tbag]

It's because the only people on AiB are melodramatic link mains who see SWF as anathema.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

Holy crap. The AiB ZSS boards are deader than ours. Now that's saying something lol.

Wait, thats possible??

Well, we ARE more awesome here.

 

[Zero]

**** right we are! :D

edit: thought this was social

 

[Eddie G]

At least you all aren't as dead as the *shudders* Pit boards. xD

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Wow, it is pretty dead in here!

...

ZSS is probably the char with the least ideas in Brawl-. I don't want to do another MK (AKA almost all small buffs). >.> We got nothing, and the ideas here are just... well... not really coming together to form a B- char. Halp? :V Alpha is on friday and we're kinda ****ed.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

specials

make downB REALLY FAST and higher
give it invulnerability all the way through
make the kick come out frame1 from input
reduce landing lag on the kick

make nb faster in charge up and keep it with her like lucarios and stuff
give it infinite range

make sideB fast in startup (like 10 frames)

make upb hitbox on frame 1-3 and give it a larger knock-up hitbox so we have a good oos option
make upb spike a bit slower so it can true combo into more things

jab/tilts/dash attack
jab make it true combo into each other

DA is overpowered already don't change this

dtilt more shield knockback

ftilt less cooldown + make the low one trip 100%

utilt ALOT LESS COOLDOWN

smashes

fsmash less startup, make it shieldbreak, less cooldown (ALOT)

dsmash like luigi style shield knockback (all over the stage n stuff)

usmash less DI-able and like 20% all hits combined, also keep a grounded hitbox active at all times

throws/grab
make her grab like 6-7 frame startup yet remain as long ranged, also decrease her ending lag to that of a normal grab

fthrow more damage

dthrow put opponent in techchase position (techable though)

uthrow send straight up, undi-able, less ending lag for zero, more killing power (kill at 130-140)

bthrow send at lower angle, if di'd up give free bair, less ending lag for zero

aerials

uair is overpowered already

make bair fully disjointed and kill 10-20% earlier

make fair combo in itself + small disjoints on the end

dair no landing lag at all

nair faster in startup and stun like paralyzer and less ending lag



misc:
slightly more ground speed to allow for grab release > dashlock and stuff
allow her to air release the entire cast for epic air release shenanigans.
make a taunt of her spawn an armor piece but make it long enough that you're not able to spawn 2 without getting punished after taking a stock n stuff

 

[Kewkky]

BPC, I've seen a couple of B- videos... And so far it's turning into something I wasn't expecting. I'm actually kinda disappointed. I expected characters zooming everywhere, freakin' fast attacks, comboability everywhere, special traits per character that leave people stupefied (a la "Bowser Super Armor on all attacks' startups before his hitboxes appear")... You know, something people could sit down and scream/yell/laugh out super loud because of how incredibly fun the new "broken" characters are.

Maybe you guys should form ZSS around these expectations? As a ZSS user accustomed to speed and fast thinking in a slow-paced game, maybe ZSS should be a character with the fastest attacks in B- that can combo relatively well, and increasing her fastfall speed to insane speeds would make her even faster overall. She could combo with her uair and kill with her bair/fsmash/dair. Her usmash could have stum properties (like dsmash's) so that if she catches someone while airdodging, they get stunned and are in the perfect position to get juggle combo'd.

I see ZSS as a combo-happy character in vBrawl... Maybe in B- se should be even more so?



I have to say, Yoshi's uair is amazing.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

BPC, I've seen a couple of B- videos... And so far it's turning into something I wasn't expecting. I'm actually kinda disappointed. I expected characters zooming everywhere, freakin' fast attacks, comboability everywhere, special traits per character that leave people stupefied (a la "Bowser Super Armor on all attacks' startups before his hitboxes appear")... You know, something people could sit down and scream/yell/laugh out super loud because of how incredibly fun the new "broken" characters are.

Maybe you guys should form ZSS around these expectations? As a ZSS user accustomed to speed and fast thinking in a slow-paced game, maybe ZSS should be a character with the fastest attacks in B- that can combo relatively well, and increasing her fastfall speed to insane speeds would make her even faster overall. She could combo with her uair and kill with her bair/fsmash/dair. Her usmash could have stum properties (like dsmash's) so that if she catches someone while airdodging, they get stunned and are in the perfect position to get juggle combo'd.

I see ZSS as a combo-happy character in vBrawl... Maybe in B- se should be even more so?



I have to say, Yoshi's uair is amazing.

Eh. It's hard to come up with a gimmick for some chars that isn't really ****ing gimmicky. And most chars are very mobile at this point (check out ROB's air speed/sideB combos, Ike's SideB combos, Ganon's new Flame Choke, Snake's DAC, Sheik's DAC, Lucas's DAC), or can tank so hard they don't have to (bowser lol). ZSS could be a combo beast... hard to balance, but okay.

specials

make downB REALLY FAST and higher
give it invulnerability all the way through
make the kick come out frame1 from input
reduce landing lag on the kick

make nb faster in charge up and keep it with her like lucarios and stuff
give it infinite range

make sideB fast in startup (like 10 frames)

make upb hitbox on frame 1-3 and give it a larger knock-up hitbox so we have a good oos option
make upb spike a bit slower so it can true combo into more things

jab/tilts/dash attack
jab make it true combo into each other

DA is overpowered already don't change this

dtilt more shield knockback

ftilt less cooldown + make the low one trip 100%

utilt ALOT LESS COOLDOWN

smashes

fsmash less startup, make it shieldbreak, less cooldown (ALOT)

dsmash like luigi style shield knockback (all over the stage n stuff)

usmash less DI-able and like 20% all hits combined, also keep a grounded hitbox active at all times

throws/grab
make her grab like 6-7 frame startup yet remain as long ranged, also decrease her ending lag to that of a normal grab

fthrow more damage

dthrow put opponent in techchase position (techable though)

uthrow send straight up, undi-able, less ending lag for zero, more killing power (kill at 130-140)

bthrow send at lower angle, if di'd up give free bair, less ending lag for zero

aerials

uair is overpowered already

make bair fully disjointed and kill 10-20% earlier

make fair combo in itself + small disjoints on the end

dair no landing lag at all

nair faster in startup and stun like paralyzer and less ending lag



misc:
slightly more ground speed to allow for grab release > dashlock and stuff
allow her to air release the entire cast for epic air release shenanigans.
make a taunt of her spawn an armor piece but make it long enough that you're not able to spawn 2 without getting punished after taking a stock n stuff

I'll keep some of this in mind.

 

[Zero]

How about give her body a perpetual hitbox when she's moving. Like speed booster. That' broken as ****.

 

[noradseven]

Give her boob missiles, just do it

 

[NickRiddle]

Boob missles?
Boob stuns.
Stun missles.
DO IT!

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

^ I agree with the above posts.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Make a ton of moves stun. Nair, jabs, etc.

Give her the ability to cancel all of her specials and down smash before the hitboxes come out. PLEASE DO THIS.

Reverse the startup and ending frames of downsmash.

Make uair a lot faster.

Make fsmash a lot faster and make it break shields.

Make side-b a lot faster.

Remove the landing lag on dair.

 

[NickRiddle]

This board sucks.

 

[ph00tbag]

Nick Riddle sucks.

 

[NickRiddle]

Nick Riddle sucks.

Depends on how much you pay me.

 

[Nefarious B]

luls

10 luls

 

[ThreeSided]

Hey, you guys want to make Fsmash REALLY broken?

Not only should you make it break shields, but if it lands normally, instead of doing knockback, make it grab them. xD Now THAT'S just scary.

 

[Adapt]

Ok here are my Brawl- Ideas


Overall:
Faster running and jumping speed.
Somewhat faster fast-fall as well
Allow her jump to conserve running momentum ~half of CFs
Shorter short hop

Moveset

Jab: make sure it combos properly on all chars, and make the third hit stronger
Ftilt: make the low angle always trip
dtilt: faster, set knockback, allows a true combo into uair/bair
utilt: a bit more knockback, much less landing lag
dash attack: add IASA frames on the end

Grab: (All) 5 frames
F-throw: make it a killer at higher %
D-throw: set knockback, true combo into uair
U-throw: reduce ending lag
B-throw: horizontal knockback backwards

F-smash: make this move much faster and have horizontal knockback. Make it eat shields and trip on the tip hitbox
D-smash: increase damage, reduced startup time. Maybe set knockback
U-smash: allow us to hold A and keep spinning our whip in the air above us

Nair: make this move stun (less than d-smash)
Fair: increase damage and make sure first hit less SDIable
Bair: Horizontal knockback, stronger
Uair: make this move faster and have less knockback
Dair: allow us to cancel this with a jump, and autocancel on landing. Make it a stronger spike

N-B: Spawn armor piece (limit number of pieces to 2) reduce the amount of time the armor piece is active.
F-B: Increase startup speed
D-B: return this after getting hit. allow us to footstool stage objects. give it more invulnerable frames at the beginning
U-B: set knockback (not enough to allow teching), make this much harder to DI away from it.

Really, allowing ZSS to spawn an armor piece is going to be incredibly nasty. I really hope you can do that


I can't wait to play with ZSS-

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

why make uthrow like a dthrow, lol that's why i thought of dthrow to be techchase and uthrow be the new dthrow

 

[NickRiddle]

Hey guys, I main MK now.
Just kidding.
He's so much fun though.
COME!

 

[lllp3lll]

Hey guys I've finally got a vid of me playing and was wondering if I could get a crit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abQAbSqJi7I&feature=sub

Also any tips in genral to deal with yoshi's Bair (first and only yoshi i've played)

 

[NickRiddle]

Hey guys I've finally got a vid of me playing and was wondering if I could get a crit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abQAbSqJi7I&feature=sub

Also any tips in genral to deal with yoshi's Bair (first and only yoshi i've played)

0:32 You could have killed Yoshi with a d-smash footstool here.

1:01 Down-B could have killed Yoshi here as well.

2:51 Side-B probably would have recovered here. It looks like you were a little too low to up-b to work.

3:16 After the falling uair, why did you utilt instead of uair again? Uair puts the opponent in a guessing position, and utilt resets both of you back to neutral.

4:00 Maybe one d-smash to side-b here for the kill? Double d-smash Fair would have worked too.

4:11 The very high down-b here would have been met with a side-b. You had time.

4:49 Nice f-smash for no reason. :D

7:17 Never use your double jump that high, especially vs. Yoshi. It is safer to save it and recover low. Yoshi's jump is really high, but on a stage like FD he will not go low to edgeguard you, for fear of death.

8:12 I was hoping you'd spike him. XD



Overall: It's obvious at times that you do not know the matchup, so that just comes with exp. Your item control is really good, and you make the right choices most of the time. You're pretty good.

Lots of f-tilt though, and almost no d-smash. I'm the only ZSS who will fault you for the second one though.

And, vs. Bair, sheild > utilt OOS works, and IIRC our bair is bigger than Yoshi's.

 

[xxpatgxx]

Hey guys, I main MK now.
Just kidding.
He's so much fun though.
COME!

Don't play like that

 

[NickRiddle]

Don't play like that

I do what I want!
He IS fun though.

 

[lllp3lll]

Wow thanks, didnt realise I had all those early chances

4:11 The very high down-b here would have been met with a side-b. You had time.

I did go for it but was horribly spaced (I wasnt aware of those stars)

3:16 After the falling uair, why did you utilt instead of uair again? Uair puts the opponent in a guessing position, and utilt resets both of you back to neutral.

I put up my sheild for some reason (dont ask my why) but 2nd match I did carry on from a falling uair

4:49 Nice f-smash for no reason. :D

Mindgames yo, lol jk'in

Lots of f-tilt though, and almost no d-smash. I'm the only ZSS who will fault you for the second one though.

I'm I f-tilt-ing too much? I use it as a mixup from using d-tilt and to get them out my face. hmm like @ 4:15 Link would have died, didnt know yoshi's recovery was that good

 

[ph00tbag]

8:12 I was hoping you'd spike him. XD

I was hoping he'd flipstool him. That Yoshi needs to learn how to airdodge through his DJs.

 

[Hyesz]

Rofl, I know this doesn't mean much, but on AiB Ladder I finally got my first win... and it was against a Pit.

Been finding that Matchup HELL for a while but I'm slowly getting the hang of it. Too bad ZSS sucks online.

 

[solecalibur]

Rofl, I know this doesn't mean much, but on AiB Ladder I finally got my first win... and it was against a Pit.

Been finding that Matchup HELL for a while but I'm slowly getting the hang of it. Too bad ZSS sucks online.

Patg is 4th on AIB ladder atm hes nothing but zss (that is listed)

 

[Hyesz]

I know this. But er... I'm not that good.

I could swear he was 5th though.

 

[noradseven]

Just for clarity online brawl != offline brawl, thank you.

 

[Zero]

Also, AiB lloloolol

 

[noradseven]

Getting hit resets her down+B count (like Diddy Kong's side+B).

Gives me goosebumps thinking about it.

Didn't I say this forever ago, then again I think it gets mentioned like first 3 after someone says how can we improve ZSS everytime so maybe we just forgot we didn't already say it this time.

 

[Y.b.M.]

I went Mainly ZSS at a Recent House tournament that had 53 people. I got 7th place... I used her 100 percent in pools and ended up getting 2nd in Pools(should've got 1st).. And Always used her first in Bracket matches except when I felt I wasn't going to do with her against certain opponents... But I plan to continue my ZSS Journey even though Kirby is my first love...

 

[NickRiddle]

I went Mainly ZSS at a Recent House tournament that had 53 people. I got 7th place... I used her 100 percent in pools and ended up getting 2nd in Pools(should've got 1st).. And Always used her first in Bracket matches except when I felt I wasn't going to do with her against certain opponents... But I plan to continue my ZSS Journey even though Kirby is my first love...

Who did you lose to? Anybody good?