Zero Suit Samus Questions & Answers

[Snakeee]

Maybe that's why I can hold my own against Snakeee. We still need to finish that match good sir.

I'll finish the friendly, but I don't think I'll even play ZSS dittos unless someone really wants to. I'd rather go Sheik than deal with all the nonsense of a ZSS ditto lol.

 

[Cia]

you know secretly like them.

also, i randomly attended this brawl tournament on saturday. and i ***** DMBrandon with my ZSS (i hope he searches his name XD)

he won the set, but he got lucky and he knows it.

 

[canthandletheSpeculosity]

Whoa that's a nice sig VaNz. It reaches out and grabs me and never lets go...

 

[Snakeee]

you know secretly like them.

also, i randomly attended this brawl tournament on saturday. and i ***** DMBrandon with my ZSS (i hope he searches his name XD)

he won the set, but he got lucky and he knows it.

Wow, that's really good considering he knows the match up pretty well after playing me quite a few times.

 

[cba]

Looks like I missed something while I was asleep. Can someone fill me in on who this idiot is?

oh, another ignorant oli/G&W main who spends his life online in the Online tournament section. for further refernce, see below.

Don't mention MSAS in my presence lol. Gloating that he's better than me and sending them a vid from wifi where he "3 stocks" me. This was back when my internet was busted, my connection was beyond horrendous, and it was just so unbearable that I just jumped off the stage on purpose at 0%. Wifi sucks anyway though. But apparently if you beat someone on wifi in a friendly you are way beyond their level.

SCRUB: i have never gotten the definition of the word right, but it FEELS right to use it in this moment.

OMG I KNOW MAN!!! I'm in the aib chatroom and he was gloating about it when I said I had a better ZSS than him because he claims he's the best zss on wifi. And I was like "1.) It's online. 2.) They're online DITTOS. Dittos mean nothing." Then I asked him how he does offline and he never answered. Just another one of those people that think online is the same as offline.

see above.

 

[DeliciousCake]

I'll finish the friendly, but I don't think I'll even play ZSS dittos unless someone really wants to. I'd rather go Sheik than deal with all the nonsense of a ZSS ditto lol.

I just wanna finish our ditto, then we can go ZSS vs. Sheik all day.

 

[Cia]

Whoa that's a nice sig VaNz. It reaches out and grabs me and never lets go...

Thanks. Dazwa is amazing @ sigs

 

[Adapt]

**** I hate ZSS dittos... I play them though because none of my secondaries are great against her. (mainly due to lack of experience

 

[canthandletheSpeculosity]

I just PS and spam uair with ZSS dittos since most of all other ZSS' I fought just spam SH bair/side b.

 

[cba]

I just PS and spam uair with ZSS dittos since most of all other ZSS' I fought just spam SH bair/side b.

hey....that was my first ditto.:embarrass

 

[Paradigm]

I apologize if this is answered elsewhere in the ZSS boards, but I don't have the patience to read through all 50+ pages in the Q&A thread and a quick search for "jab" wouldn't work (due to how short the word is?).

I've picked up ZSS recently, and am a bit lost as to what to do after the initial jab (or initial two jabs). I read that many characters can shield/sidestep/etc the third jab and to try tilts, but I've found those are punishable as well.

Is there anything guaranteed from a jab that isn't punishable? It's a shame to have to avoid using the jab - it's such a fast move. It also feels awkward not having some way to guarantee a free getaway from a jab like (nearly?) every other character.

Thanks

 

[Hence]

I apologize if this is answered elsewhere in the ZSS boards, but I don't have the patience to read through all 50+ pages in the Q&A thread and a quick search for "jab" wouldn't work (due to how short the word is?).

I've picked up ZSS recently, and am a bit lost as to what to do after the initial jab (or initial two jabs). I read that many characters can shield/sidestep/etc the third jab and to try tilts, but I've found those are punishable as well.

Is there anything guaranteed from a jab that isn't punishable? It's a shame to have to avoid using the jab - it's such a fast move. It also feels awkward not having some way to guarantee a free getaway from a jab like (nearly?) every other character.

Thanks

Cancel the first or second jab into a D-Tilt (two if your opponent's shield is up), then follow it up with U-Air or U-Smash. There's practically nothing in brawl that isn't punishable, just see how your opponent reacts the first time.
Btw, will you be coming to Love's Last Stand?

 

[Paradigm]

Huh, maybe it was a fluke then that my dtilt from jab was punished... maybe I did it to slowly or some such. I'll try it some more.

If I can get a ride I'll probably be there, but I've been having trouble getting rides lately. I definately want to go, but odds are against it.

 

[canthandletheSpeculosity]

hey....that was my first ditto.:embarrass

Hey......I said most ZSS' not all

 

[cba]

Hey......I said most ZSS' not all

Hey....i just said "Thank you"

 

[Nefarious B]

How is ZSS's grab game? Is it worth attempting grabs much since the long animation is just asking for an RPG todaface?

Specific questions: Does fthrow>fthrow combo at low percents?
Is forcing an air grab release>dsmash>dsmash>regrab viable?

 

[Garde]

You can combo a f-throw into another at very low % on specific characters. I forget which ones specifically.

The grab release only works on some characters, but yes, that is viable on characters that the grab release works on.

 

[PepsiMista]

Her Grab Release Can be Implemented on certain Characters.
i will try to make a list of it, if its not already posted.

 

[sasook]

You can combo a f-throw into another at very low % on specific characters. I forget which ones specifically.

I think the heavyweights - D3, Bowser, DK. It can work on some semi-heavys too, but it's risky, i.e. Snake, Link, Ike.

 

[Snakeee]

For the last time the f-throw chain does NOT work! lol

 

[cba]

For the last time the f-throw chain does NOT work! lol

i knew that...

 

[sasook]

Well, you can probably pull off 2 in a row through sheer unexpectedness, right? But yeah, technically it's escapable 100% of the time.

 

[DeliciousCake]

2 f-throws on the heaviest characters at 0%, if you're lucky. Other than that everyone will jump out afterward.

 

[Shadow Tactics]

Patient MKs

Funnily enough I can face aggressive MKs, they're obviously still very hard to beat for me but I still find it possible. What I find impossible to beat are the really patient ones. The ones that just sit there as I fire neutral/side Bs and downsmashes at them (they're always exactly out of range) then as soon as they find an opening or I approach them, they tear me to pieces. What can I do so that I stand a chance of winning? I've been thinking about it for a while now but I can't come up with anything.

 

[Garde]

That means they're reading you because you're predictable. Make yourself less predictable. Get in range for a side+B or paralyzer like you normally would, but refrain from using ANY moves. You must wait for them to react to you and then punish them. Bait them to attack you, attempt to dodge or shield their own attacks. If you get in range for melee attacks and they still haven't acted, harass them with jab cancels, dash attack to up-tilt (so you cross them up), and other things that they cannot easily spot dodge and punish. Be careful about harassing them with the dash attack to up-tilt, as they can probably punish you if you use it too much (shuttle loop from shield is probably something they could do, or jump cancel to aerial), but it's an option that you could get away with every now and then.

The trick is baiting them into acting and punishing. Brawl favors defensive play over offensive play, but the real trick is to learn how to meld defensive play into an offense. It really comes down to who can read and bait their opponent better, once you get past counter match situations.

 

[sasook]

Ah, the smart MKs. I've often heard they are 20x deadlier than the normal, aggressive MKs. For instance, if they ever approach, it's probably by walking, no? I've heard that an approaching walking MK is scarier than a dashing (flying?) one because he has full access to his moveset, whereas out of a dash he can't do as much.


Anyways, yeah, you gotta bait them. It's all about mindgames and fakeouts. Just know this is a really tough fight, so don't feel bad about it. Smart MKs > aggressive MKs.

 

[FB Dj_Iskascribble]

what all can ZSS do to metaknight from a air grab release? id like to let my friend know so our matches are more challanging.

 

[Snakeee]

You guys are wrong. Aggressive is the best way for a metaknight to fight us. Play my brother (Shadow) and then say that.

And theres no guaranteed combo from a grab release for meta, but it still puts him in a good position. It's a great idea to do that at the edge so that ZSS falls off the stage, and has less time to recover.

 

[FB Dj_Iskascribble]

i meant what can SHE do to meta. I already take advantage of that one .

 

[Snakeee]

i meant what can SHE do to meta. I already take advantage of that one .

...um she can grab release CG him
I believe a dash attack and an up smash also work, but it's possible that those could be escapable. Someone let me know if he can, but it seems like up smash would always work even though he can DI out of the last couple of hits.

 

[FadedImage]

I think anything other than grab is technically escapable with meta's up-b. Not sure though, haven't tested.

both dash attack and u-smash seem like they would connect on a consistent basis, plus dash attack combos to u-tilt at certain percentages, so that's probably your best option (~17% damage iirc).

 

[cba]

i suggest more like Dash attack --> Dtilt.

 

[sasook]

You guys are wrong. Aggressive is the best way for a metaknight to fight us. Play my brother (Shadow) and then say that.

Okay, fine, maybe we are indeed wrong about how MKs should play against ZSS, but that still doesn't answer his question - he's having trouble against campy MKs, not aggressive ones. Are we correct in saying to bait them or no?

 

[Shadow Tactics]

You guys are wrong. Aggressive is the best way for a metaknight to fight us. Play my brother (Shadow) and then say that.

And theres no guaranteed combo from a grab release for meta, but it still puts him in a good position. It's a great idea to do that at the edge so that ZSS falls off the stage, and has less time to recover.

What about your matches with M2K though? He tried to be slightly too aggressive towards you on Lylat Cruise and you proceeded to 2 stock him. He then started to just sit outside your dash/side B/neutral B range in the next 2 matches and it seemed to work wonders for him, especially on Castle Siege.

 

[jibbyjaont]

How do you handle a diddy? I can't seem to find the matchup thread for this. Please direct me there if there is one.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Ok so I'm sitting here watching CotT4 and Snakeee's doing the Flip Jump stall on the bottom platform of Norfair. Now I was wondering, can you possibly work it like the Shino stall with Sheik in Melee, where if you time it perfectly you become completely invulnerable to lava?

 

[Adapt]

I don't think so Cake... I know there is at least a few frames of vulnerability between you getting off the ledge and initiating the down-B. I have been hit out of the ledge stall before.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Alright, just wondering.

 

[sasook]

I've been wondering for a while now, what is the upb boost jump? Why is it useful? If it's what I think it is (upb and X/Y at the same time), doesn't that use up your jump; isn't that a bad thing?

 

[ph00tbag]

I've been wondering for a while now, what is the upb boost jump? Why is it useful? If it's what I think it is (upb and X/Y at the same time), doesn't that use up your jump; isn't that a bad thing?

It's more like using up b during the rising part of any jump, and if you're going to be using that jump anyway to recover, you might as well get some extra height out of it.