~ Zelda's Matchups ~ (obselete thread/check stickies)

[Tristan_win]

...Just curious how many options does Zelda have that can be safe for her if they hit a enemy shield.

I'm not being picky what you can list as if this question was asked in the sheik forum I would answer with things like Needles, to tipper ftilt, all the way to things like first hit of Fsmash pushing a shielded enemy off the stage.

It would also be amazing if someone could list for me some OoS punish Zelda can do against some of the cast attacks like for example DK Fsmash. If Zelda shields a dk Fsmash what can she do to punish it? Heck if you know it giving me power shield info as well. The more you're willing to share the better :3

... Please

 

[Veggie123]

fsmash is safe on shield

oos bair is devastating on characters that can get hit by it
oos nair is a good alternative to oos usmash if you need a bit more horizontal distance/your opponent is approaching aerially and isn't behind you

for DKs fsmash in particular, i've made it a habit to jump over the hitbox and fair. DK's fsmash has 31 frames of lag afterwards so that gives Zelda ample time to punish with pretty much anything if she's close enough when shielded. the farther you are though, the more i'd be inclined to do a dash grab

 

[Kataefi]

Yeah basically spaced Jab, Dtilt, Fsmash and the very tipper of Ftilt are safe on shield. So is rising SH/FH Nair on the taller characters. Falling Nair is a lot better when you get behind them (anything is).

 

[GreyFox86]

Yeah basically spaced Jab, Dtilt, Fsmash and the very tipper of Ftilt are safe on shield. So is rising SH/FH Nair on the taller characters. Falling Nair is a lot better when you get behind them (anything is).

And we are talking/discussing about who?

 

[MrEh]

And we are talking/discussing about who?

Those were just generalizations.

Better characters usually can punish Zelda in more situations.

 

[KayLo!]

I reaaaaally need to break my habit of nairing OOS. Uair/nair OOS are so habit from playing Pikachu. x.x

I mean, wtf are you supposed to do out of shield on short characters??

Fair/bair/loluair won't hit.
Dair is..... yeaaaaah.
Usmash is aight, but if they're short, they tend to be able to SDI out of it and punish. I know I'm not crazy, that **** happens.
Dash attack is meh.
Dsmash is meh with less range.
Dtilt is okay, but shield drop frames kind of ruin its startup speed.

And none of her specials are really suitable for OOS punishment.

 

[MrEh]

Well, Zelda has piss poor OoS options in general. All of her aerials are too awkward to use to hit small characters OoS, and her specials are no different. UpB OoS will obviously ignore the 7 frames of shield drop, but using UpB silly. (or amazing, if you see it in a certain light)

All of her non-aerial options have the shield drop frames, and considering that Zelda doesn't exactly attack fast, your options for punishing are pretty fail. Dtilt and Dsmash are your quickest options, with Dtilt being safer.


Sometimes, the best thing you can do is just accept that your shield is being hit, and there's nothing you can do about it. Retreat, and rethink the situation. A failed punish due to overexertion is worse then not attempting the punish at all.

 

[-Mars-]

Yea I actually agree that in some instances a roll backwards is a better option than attempting to punish and it allows you to reset your spacing.

 

[KayLo!]

K.

That's what I thought, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't being a negative nancy, lol.

 

[GreyFox86]

Ok, if it hasn't been done already, I would love to Re-re-re-re-re-re-discuss the MU on Ike and Donkey Kong. Granted if you guys don't mind. O=(>_<Q)

 

[mountain_tiger]

Ok, if it hasn't been done already, I would love to Re-re-re-re-re-re-discuss the MU on Ike and Donkey Kong. Granted if you guys don't mind. O=(>_<Q)

Discussing Ike again would be nice. Fair is annoying. >_<

Discussing Jigglypuff sometime soon would be nice as well.

 

[MrEh]

Ike and DK? Discussing them is easy.

They hit like trucks. So don't get hit.

 

[zeldspazz]

Can we do Lucario and Kirby at some point in the near future as well?

 

[GreyFox86]

Ike and DK? Discussing them is easy.

They hit like trucks. So don't get hit.

That doesn't explain how not to get hit.

Opps...who am I?

But in seriousness, from what I've gathered Ike seems to be more annoying than before against Zelda.

 

[Kataefi]

Yeah we can do those of course! I'll get to making a few extra threads on characters in the next few days or so

Sorry for slacking - also anyone's welcome to make a Zelda vs ____ thread anytime providing it isn't done already and I can reformat the OP to suit the style of the others ones

But yeah! aside from that I'll go into making more MU threads very soon!

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Ike and DK? Discussing them is easy.

They hit like trucks. So don't get hit.

that was mad insightful yo,.

 

[KayLo!]

I vote Ike. Pretty sure we agreed to do him a little while ago, but Kata be lazy.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Discussing Ike again would be nice. Fair is annoying. >_<

Discussing Jigglypuff sometime soon would be nice as well.

Im up for Ike.

as for JP thats simple.
1. don't get baited
2. ban all janky stages your uncomfortable on like FO.

 

[HyperGumba]

Is the match up chart in first post still up to date?

Just wondering,because there are still a lot characters missing i that one.

If there did someone something about Captain Falcon,I just can say that CF sucks balls against Zelda.

Maybe I am not advanced enough to know which of CF's attacks work good against her,but especially her smashes are hard to sidestep,and they have a pretty high priority in comparison to nearly all of CF's moves. Some friend of mine has Zelda as his secondary and I almost loose every match as CF,I actually can only do something when she teleports and fails to grad the edge,so that I have a knee freekill.

But mostly about her high-priority smashes can't be done that much I guess,approach is actually a no go,because before I start an attack I instantly get ***** by Zelda's fSmash,which even keeps me from ****** her with my grab,because when I shield she slightly pushes me away with her attack,and when I don't shield she can bring me off-stage easily and then keeps spamming Din's fire which is also annoying to doge which sometimes results in missing the edge.

Her air game isn't as good as on the ground I guess,it's rather easy to juggle her with the upAir,but first you need to force her to go in the air,but there we have the problem of the approach which is freaking hard because of her smashes.

I am not a real good analyst (is this the right word?) when talking about match ups,but CF has a real hard time against Zelda. I'd give Zelda a total of 65:35 (there is some hope for CF if she sucks at recovering back to the stage.)

Oh,and she has some kind of the knee,which can be used pretty easy close to the ground,I kinda have a problem with that...

65:35

 

[Tristan_win]

Zelda mains have listed that Zelda vs De3 is 55/45 in Zelda favor, which would make Zelda a weak counter. With all respect has any noteworthy Zelda's fought any noteworthy De3's recently and continue to say this?

 

[-Mars-]

Zelda mains have listed that Zelda vs De3 is 55/45 in Zelda favor, which would make Zelda a weak counter. With all respect has any noteworthy Zelda's fought any noteworthy De3's recently and continue to say this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKqi8uwa8NI

 

[JuJux]

Lol mindgame by -mars- ~
Yeah, idk what's wrong with Zelda 55 - 45 DDD, just watch Veggie vs Lain lol. (and, imo, he could won more matches in that MM if he had done less mistakes.)

 

[-Mars-]

Yea Veggie didn't really play the matchup correctly imo and he still did extremely well and is a very talented player.

That reminds me Jujux had a great set up against a DDD as well and he plays the matchup better but Tristan wanted big name American players i'm assuming so that's why I didn't link his vids.

 

[GodAtHand]

I played Lain's DDD at SNES and two stocked him... but from the looks of that video he went and actually learned the matchup O_O!... Jeez that looks like a tough DDD.

 

[Tristan_win]

I played Lain's DDD at SNES and two stocked him... but from the looks of that video he went and actually learned the matchup O_O!... Jeez that looks like a tough DDD.

and thus my point. How many good De3's know the match up? Whenever I fight a good player with any said character for the first time afterward I think higher of the match up even if I still think it's in my favor. There's been talk about on these boards about how Zelda is going to drop in the next tier list, well how come her ratios haven't changed?

 

[Half-Split Soul]

There's been talk about on these boards about how Zelda is going to drop in the next tier list, well how come her ratios haven't changed?

Because they're pretty frigging bad already?

 

[KayLo!]

and thus my point. How many good De3's know the match up? Whenever I fight a good player with any said character for the first time afterward I think higher of the match up even if I still think it's in my favor.

This goes...... double, triple, and quadruple for Zelda. She's a character that can wreck people who don't know the matchup, but after a few matches (or however long it takes the person to adapt), it becomes much easier to counter a lot of what she does.

Veggie still lost the set vs. Lain, so showing one match from the entire set where he happened to win doesn't..... mean anything or prove anything about the Zelda vs. DDD matchup. @.@

I'm confused as to why people watched that one match and went "AH HA! This is proof that Zelda has an advantage over DDD!"

Good matches, though, Veggie. I enjoyed watching them.

 

[GreyFox86]

Zelda does have an advantage over D3. Its stupid small but its still there. 55-45 Zelda if I recall.

But like KLO stated, once a player learns to adapt to what Zelda does then the MU becomes harder and it turns into who plays the MU smarter.

 

[Veggie123]

ooo i'm being talked about, i feel so honored :D

well imo, i think on paper the MU seems really bad for zelda, but d3 has a terrible shield (along with other large characters) which is why i think zelda has the upper hand on the ground. d3's ftilt still outranges zelda, but it's not unpunishable.

lain's d3 is pretty beast as expected, but compared to some of the other high/top tier MUs, this one doesn't seem too bad at all

 

[-Mars-]

I think I was misunderstood. I didn't post the vid as a "ZOMAIGAWD Zelda ***** D3"!!!! I posted it so he could see the matchup played between two good players.

There's like what......4 DDD mains and like 3 Zelda mains in the U.S.??

So who cares? Watch the small amount of vids that are available on the matchup and come up with your own ratio based off of those because it honestly doesn't matter.

 

[KayLo!]

Gotcha. The way it was posted and the way people reacted made it seem more like

a "ZOMAIGAWD Zelda ***** D3"!!!!

type of thing. My bad for misinterpretiiiing~

After watching the entire set, I still think DDD has a slight advantage, but last time we went through this, it ended in an argument, so...... @.@

 

[GreyFox86]

I think I was misunderstood. I didn't post the vid as a "ZOMAIGAWD Zelda ***** D3"!!!! I posted it so he could see the matchup played between two good players.

There's like what......4 DDD mains and like 3 Zelda mains in the U.S.??

So who cares? Watch the small amount of vids that are available on the matchup and come up with your own ratio based off of those because it honestly doesn't matter.

Well someone has to care for you to post this up. I honestly don't think anyone wanted to say that Zelda ***** this MU cause that is false to the bone.

I still stand by my statement and say that Zelda has a VERY small advantage on D3 but it really comes down to who can play smart

 

[AzNfinesse]

lol like what they said.

i can post a vid of me beating a snake with zelda...that doesn't mean that zelda ***** snake

 

[KayLo!]

I dunno, I beat Snakes on wifi all the time.

Must be 50:50 imo.

 

[-Mars-]

Agreed.../thread.

 

[Kataefi]

So... um.... I vote we restart matchups. I'll make a new thread tonight about some funky stuff I have planned that I've spoken to a few people on the xat about and PMd others

 

[Darkmusician]

Kata are you still planning on trying the match up discussion strategy that we discussed earlier?

 

[Kataefi]

Absolutely, I've definitely been slacking as of late. I'm really interested in hearing everyone's thoughts in the xat.

Expect the new new hub matchup thread very shortly!

 

[MrEh]

Zelda/Bowser should be the first matchup, because it can be discussed the fastest.

Just put me and DM in a room and let us yell at each other. Simple.

 

[GreyFox86]

Lol, that's just silly.