~ Zelda's Matchups ~ (obselete thread/check stickies)

[MrEh]

Zelda vs Peach isn't that bad at all.

NinjaLink thinks it's 35-65. lol

 

[GodAtHand]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFqGARtyHMs&feature=channel_page

Im not saying thats how it always happens... but you can use that to know what to do and what not to do.

Peachkid is good btw, he's no joking matter. I'm talking like 2nd place tournament style and PR style goodness.

But on the matchup side I do understand a slight disadvantage, but Peach not being able to kill well is such a huge help. Since I sort of play Peach as well knowing her spacing can really help with the matchup.

 

[Mikey Lenetia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFqGARtyHMs&feature=channel_page

Im not saying thats how it always happens... but you can use that to know what to do and what not to do.

Peachkid is good btw, he's no joking matter. I'm talking like 2nd place tournament style and PR style goodness.

But on the matchup side I do understand a slight disadvantage, but Peach not being able to kill well is such a huge help. Since I sort of play Peach as well knowing her spacing can really help with the matchup.

I think that's you knowing the matchup better than him for sure. He's one of the few Peach mains that doesn't dabble with Zelda, so if anything it's showing how he doesn't/didn't know how to play against her. Still a nice highlight match of things Zelda can do if Peach doesn't know the matchup as well. ^_^

 

[mountain_tiger]

NinjaLink thinks it's 35-65. lol

Could you give some explanation, please? Saying it's 35:65 is basically saying that it's practically impossible to win provided that the Peach player knows the match-up, and I don't see how it's that bad.

 

[Ochobobo]

You'd have to ask NinjaLink for that reason I think, lol. You could check the Zelda chat, he's in there sometimes.

 

[Kataefi]

Mountain it most definitely can be that bad and worse - it's certainly not unwinnable, it's just peach can actually make zelda whiff things very easily and punish her for it. Top that off with Fair, Bair and turnip camping and zelda's brickwalled.

The only good thing about this matchup is that if you do kill her early, you can play keep away and extremely stubborn so she'll have a problem killing you. Also... Bair OoS can net some good and early kills, as can any aerial in the right context. Even sourspot spikes...

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Could you give some explanation, please? Saying it's 35:65 is basically saying that it's practically impossible to win provided that the Peach player knows the match-up, and I don't see how it's that bad.

He's one of the few Peach mains that doesn't dabble with Zelda...

that would be MY assumption as to why he thinks it's that bad.

Zelda's a character that a lot of people don't play against often. As a result, not many know the best way to deal with her. While I concede that peach is advantaged against zelda, I've always thought so, I think it's about 60:40, and any impression that it's worse is probably given by the fact that peaches tend to know Zelda so well, and we're probably not used to that. But that's a player thing, not a character thing, so it really shouldn't be taken into consideration so highly.

 

[Kataefi]

I've heard Praxis plays Maos or something like that just through lurking... I hope they can put up some matches

Just concentrate on getting a delicious early kill against her and build up the momentum from there! And be extremely patient within those 8 given minutes. Rushing in blindly will do no good.

edit: mountain play me online as peach sometime and I'll show you why it can be bad for zelda.

 

[KayLo!]

I really don't think it's 35:65.... 40:60 sound right. It's winnable as long as you X out the player-to-player stuff (like Hedgedawg said) and don't get baited into fairs.

Because outside of that move, Peach can't kill. At all. Unless you fall into a usmash. And while it can be difficult to land a hit on her in return, we kill her 1000000000x earlier, and her airdodge is so, so bad, which is so, so good for us.

 

[GodAtHand]

Peachkid Secondaries Zelda and Wolf...

And we team together, he knows the matchup.

In all honesty in tournament matches we are probably 50-50. The biggest thing I have learned about this matchup is to NOT just throw out moves. I know I in particular like to throw out Fsmashes because they are hard to punish... but Peach can punish you because she just float over if she feels like it. Every move needs to count and knowing her range really helps.

And one of the reasons is because we go so even is because at the end of the match when I am at 160% he still can't kill because Peach is lame like that and he is at 80% which is lightning kick to death percents...

 

[mountain_tiger]

I really don't think it's 35:65.... 40:60 sound right. It's winnable as long as you X out the player-to-player stuff (like Hedgedawg said) and don't get baited into fairs.

Because outside of that move, Peach can't kill. At all. Unless you fall into a usmash. And while it can be difficult to land a hit on her in return, we kill her 1000000000x earlier, and her airdodge is so, so bad, which is so, so good for us.

Peach has FSmash to kill as well.

You're right about everything else, though.

 

[KayLo!]

Peach has FSmash to kill as well.

You're right about everything else, though.

True, although all of them don't kill. Also, to use fsmash on Zelda, Peach has to put herself in a dangerous position: on the ground, in front of her, which is the second worst place to be, especially when Peach has the option to float.

I can't even remember the last time I got killed by an fsmash from Peach with Zelda.... maybe I'm just lucky and always get hit with the stupid one, lol. Or maybe the Peach I play on the regular always goes for fairs instead. (I think that's the case when he plays vs. my Zelda.)

But, you're right, fsmash can kill too.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Fsmash is too random to count as reliable finisher on Zelda :o
you have to get the magic golf club to hole in one her for that kill, or tennis racket>gimp

 

[MrEh]

Best killer for Peach is her UpB.

Trufax.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Fsmash is too random to count as reliable finisher on Zelda :o
you have to get the magic golf club to hole in one her for that kill, or tennis racket>gimp

Isn't Zelda quite light and floaty? Because the frying pan works well on floaty characters.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if Peach can't kill her; she can simply gimp her instead lol.

 

[MrEh]

Isn't Zelda quite light and floaty?

Yeah, she's pretty light and floaty. But then again, so is Peach. Although Peach is decently heavier and a bit more floaty in comparison.

Weight
Bowser 1.111
Donkey Kong 1.091
Snake 1.076
Dedede 1.071
Charizard 1.061
Ganondorf 1.056
Samus 1.051
Yoshi 1.045
Wario 1.045
R.O.B. 1.040
Ike 1.035
Captain Falcon 1.030
Link 1.030
Wolf 1.020
Lucario 1.010
Ivysaur 1.010
Mario 1
Luigi 0.995
Sonic 0.985
Ness 0.980
Pit 0.980
Lucas 0.980
Diddy Kong 0.975
Toon Link 0.970
Ice Climber 0.970
Peach 0.960
Marth 0.944
Sheik 0.935
Zelda 0.935
Falco 0.919
Olimar 0.919
Zero Suit Samus 0.914
Fox 0.910
Pikachu 0.904
Meta Knight 0.904
Kirby 0.899
Squirtle 0.884
Mr. Game & Watch 0.884
Jigglypuff 0.849


Fall Speed
Jigglypuff -0.78
Samus -0.54
Olimar -0.47
Kirby -0.44
Lucario -0.40
Peach -0.37
Luigi -0.32
R.O.B. -0.32
Zelda -0.26
Marth -0.25
Toon Link -0.16
Ivysaur -0.16
Ness -0.12
Yoshi -0.05
Pit 0.00
Mario 0
Mr. Game & Watch 0.01
Ice Climber 0.07
Snake 0.16
Donkey Kong 0.20
Ike 0.28
Dedede 0.29
Wario 0.30
Charizard 0.33
Sonic 0.33
Pikachu 0.40
Zero Suit Samus 0.44
Link 0.46
Lucas 0.49
Diddy Kong 0.55
Meta Knight 0.68
Bowser 0.91
Ganondorf 0.91
Captain Falcon 0.92
Squirtle 1.05
Falco 1.23
Wolf 1.84
Sheik 2.21
Fox 3.41


Even though Peach is more floaty, she generally has more survivability then Zelda due to her higher weight. Although against someone with outragous kill power like Zelda, it really doesn't matter. It's hitting her that's the problem.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Best killer for Peach is her UpB.

Trufax.

if by "HER" you mean Zelda, then, yes, the best finisher that peach has against zelda is Zelda's upB

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Isn't Zelda quite light and floaty? Because the frying pan works well on floaty characters.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if Peach can't kill her; she can simply gimp her instead lol.

i didn't mention the frying pan cause unless she falls into it Zelda can zap Peach before she gets paned

 

[Praxis]

I think it's 60-40 Peach's favor, but 65-35 would seem more accurate than 55-45.

Once you learn to outspace all of Zelda's kill moves (Peach has a ton of options to be able to), how to properly edgeguard her, and how to punish everything she does (she has few safe options in this matchup while Peach has many), the matchup skews pretty badly. :/

 

[Kataefi]

I agree I think 60+:40- at best for zelda... it's all about getting those early kills to build up some good momentum against her, which of course is easier said than done.

Do you have any videos at all of this matchup in action praxis?

 

[zeldspazz]

Lol I just went over to check out Allisbrawl cus Id never been there before, and the Matchup thread's numbers are more in Zelda's favor than ours are XD Its just funny how our Zeldas and their Zeldas think differently ya know

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Lol I just went over to check out Allisbrawl cus Id never been there before, and the Matchup thread's numbers are more in Zelda's favor than ours are XD Its just funny how our Zeldas and their Zeldas think differently ya know

we could do with some of that positive attitude here, ya know.

 

[MrEh]

we could do with some of that positive attitude here, ya know.

Positive attitude is different then stupidly optimistic.

 

[zeldspazz]

Positive attitude is different then stupidly optimistic.

QFT, but I still think we slighty underrate Zelda's abilities in certain matchups, but not enough where it matters a ton.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Positive attitude is different then stupidly optimistic.

yes but both are WAY diifferent from stifling pessimism.

 

[MrEh]

QFT, but I still think we slighty underrate Zelda's abilities in certain matchups, but not enough where it matters a ton.

Oh, I just checked the AiB thread. That's an OLD thread that used to be on these boards as well.

So if the matchup ratios seems optimistic...that's how the Zelda boards used to think over here. lol

yes but both are WAY diifferent from stifling pessimism.

Pessimism is preferred. If you see the worst of a scenario, it's easier to overcome it as a whole.

 

[zeldspazz]

Oh, I just checked the AiB thread. That's an OLD thread that used to be on these boards as well.

So if the matchup ratios seems optimistic...that's how the Zelda boards used to think over here. lol

I thought some of the humorous parts and pictures looked familiar XD

 

[-Mars-]

Oh, I just checked the AiB thread. That's an OLD thread that used to be on these boards as well.

So if the matchup ratios seems optimistic...that's how the Zelda boards used to think over here. lol

Two things.

1. Zelda was considered a far better character than she is now when we went through all of those matchups

2. We had contributions from experienced tournament players in most of the matchups so we weren't just pulling these matchup ratios out of our ***.

 

[zeldspazz]

2. We had contributions from experienced tournament players in most of the matchups so we weren't just pulling these matchup ratios out of our ***.

When did anyone say we didnt?

 

[MrEh]

Two things.

1. Zelda was considered a far better character than she is now when we went through all of those matchups

2. We had contributions from experienced tournament players in most of the matchups so we weren't just pulling these matchup ratios out of our ***.

Um...

So if the matchup ratios seems optimistic...that's how the Zelda boards used to think over here. lol

Key word.

When did anyone say we didnt?

And this.

 

[Praxis]

I agree I think 60+:40- at best for zelda... it's all about getting those early kills to build up some good momentum against her, which of course is easier said than done.

Do you have any videos at all of this matchup in action praxis?

I have one or two videos from my friendlies and/or tournament matches with Maos last weekend on my Wii...maybe I can get some uploaded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFqGARtyHMs&feature=channel_page

Im not saying thats how it always happens... but you can use that to know what to do and what not to do.

Peachkid is good btw, he's no joking matter. I'm talking like 2nd place tournament style and PR style goodness.

But on the matchup side I do understand a slight disadvantage, but Peach not being able to kill well is such a huge help. Since I sort of play Peach as well knowing her spacing can really help with the matchup.

Here's the thing.

Yes, I agree that the fact that Zelda's capability of killing much earlier is her biggest strength here. But Peach has some of the best spacing options to NOT GET HIT BY SMASHES of any character in the game. Lee Puff after playing me told me he thought Peach:G&W was 50:50 because "at least I can land smashes on MK".

If Peach is spacing right, those smashes should never hit, at least at high percents. :/ She usually dies to people exploiting her vulnerable air game (slowfaller + bad airdodge), but Zelda's airgame isn't really there to punish that as well as other characters.

 

[-Tempest-]

I had a lot of trouble fighting Peaches at Oh Snap, but not as bad a time fighting MK. Maybe it's the difference in my knowledge of the matchups....

 

[zeldspazz]

^ I dont find Peaches that hard IMO, just watch for baits, punish missed dairs with upsmash, and try to grab turnips in midair with nair or airdodge.

Id like to do ZSS and Pit for matchups next btw

 

[mountain_tiger]

I agree with doing ZSS next. She's a right ***** to fight if you don't know the matchup.

 

[Kataefi]

Ice Climbers and Zero Suit Samus are coming up next btw...

ZSS is coming up tonight after I finish off Ness. And once she's done we'll move right onto Pit.

 

[choknater]

i can't wait for zelda ic's matchup i wanna use zelda to beat ic's instead of snake someday

 

[zeldspazz]

Its a really good thing we are doing Pit after ZSS. Three people in my crew just started maining him and I have no idea what to do against him >_> Arrow are broken.

 

[MrEh]

Three people in my crew just started maining him and I have no idea what to do against him >_> Arrow are broken.

Learn to shield.

Arrows are annoying. Nothing more.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Learn to shield.

Arrows are annoying. Nothing more.

well, with Zelda's awful movement speed, in situations which necessitate her approach, the arrows can really hamper that.

But, even then, they are more a trial in patience than anything else.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

They can also ruin her recovery.

Stupid sexy poses of FW