Zelda+: OP In-Process of Overhaul as of 04-05-10

[SymphonicSage12]

if you got the GSH1 build, you don't need to do that. The code is included in the GCT >.>


btw the guide isn't that hard to understand even if you did need to use it...

 

[zeldspazz]

Im like 13 years old and have never worked with codes in my life. Sorry for being ignorant :3

 

[SymphonicSage12]

it's not that. I just get angry easily. Sorry :3 btw I'm 13 too yay :D


okay did you get the GSH1 build?

 

[zeldspazz]

Haha youth power xD

Anyway I actually figured out what Im suppose to do, and Im almost done in fact, just looking for textures from sites. Thanks though

 

[zeldspazz]

Man dont you people ever talk?

This thread makes me sad

 

[Bandit]

This is why I only talk about Zelda+ in the Zelda social thread. I am the only active Zelda+ poster.

 

[zeldspazz]

Well Ill keep this place company too

 

[Bandit]

You & the crickets I guess...

Either way, welcome to Zelda+ officially.

 

[zeldspazz]

Why thank you. Im sure Ill enjoy my stay

 

[Perfect Chaos]

So I noticed something a while ago but never bothered to post until now. When there is a texture .pcs/.pac file for Zelda/Sheik (even if it's just the original, unmodified FitZelda0#/FitSheik0# file), it cuts the load time of that character (with that texture) when transforming by roughly 50%. Not only that, but the load time seems to be of consistent length. This is probably because it's much faster to load from the SD Card than to have to search for it in the disc to load it. I recently tested it to double check.
With the fact that it's faster, and especially because it's consistent, I really believe that Brawl+ should officially include original, unmodified texture files for both Zelda and Sheik, for all of their colors.

But in case some people are already using textures for some of Zelda/Sheik's colors, there could be a notice telling/reminding people to back up their textures and re-insert it after (if using auto-updater), or not to overwrite those textures (if doing it manually).

 

[Bandit]

I can not confirm or deny it because I've played with textures almost since I switched to Brawl+ a year ago, and I don't use Sheik anymore.

With the startup of transformation drastically increased, it still has to be really safe to perform. Transforming in match is only possible when someone is knocked off the stage (basically) or if you're on opposite sides of WiFi Waiting Room without projectiles.

 

[JCaesar]

As a Sheik + C-stick Zelda player (), I can tell you that Transform is a lot safer to use now that the end can't be punished (and btw Bandit, total transformation time is no longer than it was in vBrawl). Loading time doesn't really make a difference anymore. Still, I'd rather play on a Wii with textures.

 

[Alphatron]

I can not confirm or deny it because I've played with textures almost since I switched to Brawl+ a year ago, and I don't use Sheik anymore.

D:

I can confirm that this is true as well. I guess this topic is quiet because there really isn't too much to discuss. I thought the vbrawl Zelda board was nearly dead too, since few use her and...

 

[Bandit]

vBrawl Zelda boards are popping. You must not be looking in the right area. Plus, I do most of my Zelda+ talking in the social thread in the vBrawl boards. No one else posts here or talks about anything, so I just do it over there.

There's been a few major changes to Zelda+ that are important, but I'm only going to post them here if people are going to post more. Otherwise, subscribe to the social thread in the vBrawl area and keep up with the discussion there.

@JCaesar, I wasn't talking about the total loading time, just the amount of time you are vulnerable before transformation happens.

:bandit:

 

[JCaesar]

Well you make it sound like it's easier to punish, but it's not. Your opponent has less time to get to you to punish Transform because after the loading starts, it can't be punished, whereas vBrawl Transform can be punished all the way until it's over. The new Transform is significantly safer and more usable.

 

[Bandit]

You are more vulnerable at the start for them to interrupt, and you are completely safe once this period ends. It's been that way for awhile. This is basically what I've said the past few posts.

And I never said anything about punishing the move. You need more time to get to the invulnerable part of the move, but you are safe once you reach that point. More time and more space is needed since before you could start it pretty much whenever but would be punished once you reach the other side.

It's still Zelda's worst move. I hate the ***** she turns into.

 

[GHNeko]

Hey Bandit, do you happen to know how many frames of (dis)advantage Zelda's Usmash has on block?

If not, is Usmash completely safe on block or is it punishable by at least an up B OOS?

 

[Bandit]

It is not safe on block. I know because I've been grabbed during the wind down.

This is Zelda frame data from vBrawl:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=218082

Just for quick reference: 26 frames of cool down then an IASA frame.

I don't know too much on the specifics of frame data other than some of the data in that thread.

 

[GHNeko]

Alright then. Thanks. I Appreciate it.

Also, who do you think has the advantage? Mario or Zelda?

 

[Bandit]

Zelda by a long shot.

Out ranges and out powers him. He doesn't have too many options for getting around her defense. Even with Mario's buffs, I'm not seeing how he's getting in on her.

 

[GHNeko]

Any advice for the MU then?

 

[JCaesar]

You are more vulnerable at the start for them to interrupt, and you are completely safe once this period ends. It's been that way for awhile. This is basically what I've said the past few posts.

And I never said anything about punishing the move. You need more time to get to the invulnerable part of the move, but you are safe once you reach that point. More time and more space is needed since before you could start it pretty much whenever but would be punished once you reach the other side.

It's still Zelda's worst move. I hate the ***** she turns into.

Ok ok I think I get what you're saying now. The old Transform was better for transformations if you didn't care about getting punished. My only point was that the new one can be used more freely than the old one because you don't need as much time to transform safely.


@Neko: Camp her. That's how Mario wins. Fireball camping may not be great but Zelda has a lot of trouble with it.

 

[Bandit]

Avoid the sparkles lol because she will be using them a lot.

Honestly, there's not much more I can do to help with that. I don't know Mario enough to know how to get around Zelda's defense.

From the words of JCaesar, "When playing Zelda, you have to play her differently than any other character."

@JCaesar

Fireballs are slow, shieldable and not powerful enough. Plus, she has bigger & better fireballs

And you can transform safer, but you need to allow more space between you and your opponent to get into transform. Not because they can punish the end of the transform, but they can stop you from transforming. The old transform you could easily transform, but you would get hurt for doing so.

 

[GHNeko]

Zelda's fireballs are neigh useless on mario because of cape. I think Zelda has a slight advantage on mario imo, but that's bias brought from old matches of me vs greyfox.

If only I had some Zelda's to play over wifi I could at least get an accurate idea of the MU in GSH2.

 

[Bandit]

That will not be me as I do not own a wii, otherwise I would.

 

[JCaesar]

And you can transform safer, but you need to allow more space between you and your opponent to get into transform. Not because they can punish the end of the transform, but they can stop you from transforming. The old transform you could easily transform, but you would get hurt for doing so.

I guess it depends on your perspective. I think the new Transform is 100x better and more useful than the old one, because I would never use it in a situation where I might be punished for it, and the new one is so much better at not getting punished.

And dude you can borrow my Wii if you wanna play some Wifi. I never use it during the week unless I'm bringing it to your house anyway.

 

[Bandit]

I also have GH and Rock Band and CoD to play during the week, so I will pass.

 

[JCaesar]

It's ok to admit you hate wifi.

Friends don't let friends play wifi. I was just seeing how far I could push ya

 

[zeldspazz]

Happy Christmas Eve Everyone <3 <3

 

[JCaesar]

So, GSH2 Zelda is pretty good.

 

[Alphatron]

So I'm pretty scrub and would like to be schooled by some of you guys. Even if it is only wifi.Living in NY and having a family that DESPISES video games(and appearantly the ability to do things with consoles aside from play games) doesn't really help with traveling places.

Also, I need to stop Love jumping.

 

[Katy Parry]

Hey guys, haven't been on here in awhile. I had to sell my Wii and games to pay my cell phone bill. :/ But now I'm back, even though I won't have a Wii for about another month or two. If someone could possibly send me a message that takes you through the steps of hacking a normal Wii to play Brawl+, it would be HIGHLY appreciated.

Love jumping is useful if you need to Transform. Otherwise, it gives your opponent a free chance to look up Zelda's dress, in other words, Zelda doesn't have too many options left.

 

[Bandit]

I can probably find someone who can help you, but I can't due to me not having a Wii.

I personally think if you are love jumping then you have done something wrong, but your use could work though I would never really want to transform off stage.

-----

I've decided that since I have a lot of information on Zelda+ that I will finally spell it out in the OP's. Activity has not increased at all in this thread, so I will just have to drum up some discussion myself. I will post new information piece by piece as I feel like typing it. There won't be a schedule of release, but I will post the information as a post to let everyone know there has been a new piece of information.

In the end, it should end up as a decent guide and a good launch point for discussion.

 

[Alphatron]

Good to hear. Looking forward to it.

I personally never transform off stage due to Sheik falling faster and having a worse recovery than Zeld, minus the tether.

 

[Bandit]

http://brawlplus.net/install-guide/

Ethan, this should show you everything you need.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

ok so the new official b+ is out anyone have anything to report such as combos or bad MU or great MU for zelda?

i have not gotten to play a human yet so i am guessing this can be di'ed but if u grab bowser at 0 and d-throw to short hop lightning kick then u can combo in a f-tilt to a up-tilt for like 54 dmg. but i doubt this works on a human just trying to get the ball rolling

edit: if this is a real combo it works on DK as well. and maybe ddd but i had more trouble doing it on him.

edit#2: also if this works instead of a up-tilt at the end u could do other things such as nair

 

[Bandit]

I have a smashfest tonight, a tournament tomorrow, and Pound 4 next weekend.

I'll have plenty of videos for people and plenty to report.

-----

While I haven't played the new set, Dthrow to LK is possible on every character if they don't DI away from Zelda. If they DI away, then it's just a low damage throw with no follow ups. I'll make sure with JCaesar tonight.

-----

As I said before, I'm going to start posting guide-like information for people to talk about as well as new videos.

If you want to submit a video, please post it here or PM it to me. Please, do not send WiFi or computer matches.

:bandit:

 

[Andarel]

On heavies/fastfallers, I've had some success with dthrow -> sweetspotted ftilt, though it's DI dependent. Ir probably works on floaties also at really low percents. This is nice because a sweetspotted ftilt...well, you know how amazing the positioning advantage on it is at low %. They're right above you and in hitstun for a moment. Usmaaaaaaaaaaaaaash.

Speaking of which, the new usmash is amusing, even if it was a nerf. She can tank some things by headbutting them due to upper-body invulnerability.

 

[Bandit]

For heavies/fast fallers, you would gain more damage if you just Uthrow to Uair. And that is not DI dependent.

Dthrow is the weakest throw in damage, and if they know how to DI, it is utterly worthless.

Her new Usmash can't abuse any platform in the game but the upper half invincibility makes it so no aerial can get through it. Ike's Dair is beat by Usmash now. GG.

:bandit:

 

[Andarel]

In my experience, it's not just aerials though. People who throw proectiles high (if Snake / Link / TL throw a nade or bomb off a jump, say) while approaching are in for a nasty surprise because usmash takes out the projectile and remains there. Notably, if Link/TL are above you and try to get you out of the way with a bomb straight down...it just flat-out doesn't work.

I like dthrow -> ftilt because if you follow DI you can sometimes do dthrow -> ftilt tip -> usmash -> lightning kick. Not really that useful in the highest-level play, but it's amazing against people who aren't sure how to DI Zelda's attacks yet.