Obviously. Marth is worse than 60:40 after all
I wrestled with the notion of maybe 65:35 marth, but decided, no, it's really not exceptionally difficult to beat a marth with Zelda. It's frustrating, sure, but completely manageable.
Well Royal Blood wants to get conversation on a new character started. So maybe I can suggest a start.
Zelda Vs. Toon Link
I'm not sure whether ot not good ol' Toonie is going to be the next matchup we do or not, but I've been playing against a Toon Link a lot recently, so I wanted to write down some thoughts I had about the matchup while they were still fresh.
Okay, first thing's first, I'll talk about how my matches have been going: badly. Now there ARE a few reasons for this; I'm not giving johns. Instead, I'm just stating that it was not entirely the status of the matchup that was causing me to do poorly. Those four factors are:
- Our matches were on wi-fi with noticable lag, including obvious lag spikes.
- For the past few days, I've been almost completely neglecting Zelda in favour of Sheik. However, Sheik has a lot of trouble with Toonie in my experience, so I switched to Zelda. So I was playing as Zelda but I wasn't really feeling Zelda.
- I have a lot less experience against a good Toon Link than I would like. It seems that every n00b that uses our wii uses the great n00b trifecta of Toonie, Pika and Kirby. And e just get so tired of seeing them, so it seems in our little group there is an unspoken soft ban on all three of these charcters
- This particular Toon Link user has a LOT of experience against Zeldas, and good Zeldas at that.
As I said, these aren't excuses, just conflicting factors that might lessen the validity of my assertions.
If I had to be honest, and no disrespect to the Toon Link user against whom I am playing, I am the better of the two of us. It's not like I'm hugely better or anything, but it's enough that I'd say it should be clear to anyone who has seen the two of us. I could read his semi shallow gameplay like a book after just a couple matches, but, for whatever reason (lag, dumb decisions... whatever) I wasn't punishing him for them
. But even so, it wasn't just mistakes making the matchup hard. Anyway, I'm better and Ankoku says the matchup is 70:30 Zelda. Even with lag I should be winning right? Well, I'm not. We're going about even and that ain't right.
There could, of course, be multiple reasons for this, but, the most likely reason, in my eyes, is that the matchup, as it is written, is just wrong. Toon Link has
always been an uphill battle in my eyes. I'll give reasons why in a moment, but, for now, I'm just saying that I
do find it bad. Toonie is, to me, somewhere in the range of Peach and Marth as far as difficulty for me.
So what does this mean? Well it means that my tentative rating would be 55:45-60:40 Toonie's advantage. I'd say the lesser is more likely, but I haven't played a really good Toonie, so it very well may be 60:40. Here's why it's Toonie's advantage:
Brief Synopsis.
Toon Link is a slippery little bugger. He has a number of projectiles which can be greatly disruptive. He's tiny. He's fast. He's got good range, disjointed hitboxes and a surprising amount of strength for such a little squirt. He is, however, light weight, which is always a plus for Zelda.
Anyway let's look at each area closer.
Projectile Game
Normally Zelda can be quite resistant to projectile games due to Nayru's reflection or Din's trading. Toonie, however, maintains an effective projectile game against Zelda.
Looking at each projectile more closely starting with most easily countered and ending with least:
- Arrows: Zelda's chance to shine against Toonie's projectiles. His arrows can be quite easy to see abd reflect, and are also very easy to counter with Din's; they are slow enough and weak enough that, if Zelda shoots off a Din's at Toonie while he's charging an arrow, or, in any event, before he shoots one, she can hit him before he has a chance to release and erect a sheild AND it cancels out his arrow should he actually release it.
- Boomerang: Can you reflect this? Yes. Does it matter? Not really. Toon Link does not really use the boomerang for direct purposes, it's way too weak for that. No, instead, Toon Links tend to use their 'rangs to disrupt you, to frustrate you, to interrupt you or to set up for some stronger attacks. As a result, you reflect the boomerang.... so what? Assuming Toonie doesn't just sheild it, which he can normally do pretty easily, the damage is minimal. Also, the boomerang's movement can lead it to miss entirely if reflected. IN ADDITION, the cooldown on nayru's and Toon Link's speed can make it JUST as bad for you if you DO reflect it as if you didn't. He often just uses it to create an opening and you might be doing his job for him if you use Nayru's; he'll just rush in and punish you with a dashing Usmash or some other worthy attack.
My advice would be, if you ARE going to reflect the boomerang, try to preempt it so that you reflect with the last few active frames of Nayru's and substantially limit your abilty to be punished.
- Bombs: I think we already talked about this a lot with Peach's turnips: Bombs can be thrown in such ways that reflecting them may do nothing at all, or may just wind up leaving you vulnerable. Anyway, it rarely is bad for Toon Link if you reflect them. Luckily, in certain instances, you can combat these with Din's.
Air Game
Zelda's is completely devestating... it's too bad that Toon Link limits her to Uair almost exclusively. As long as toon link isn't sleeping, his aerials have the range, speed and priority to just keep you out of range from using nair, bair, fair or dair without ample setup. I mean, thank God at least Uair still works so well, but in the air against toonie, Zelda is like a fish out of water.
Toonie, on the other hand, quite enjoys the air and will make Zelda's life a living hell up there, especially with that bair.
Ground Game
Neither side has a great approach against the other and neither side can reliably force the hand of the other (this normally means whoever gets the lead first has an advatage. A sign Zelda is NOT a hard counter in my eyes). In my experience, the match normally consists of a LOT of feints and baiting attempts. Otherwise, Zelda just tries to get as close as possible without stepping into a danger zone. While Zelda is doing this, tooine is normally trying to keep zelda at bay with projectiles and waiting for the first opening he sees to try and start pressuring Zelda.
As for special notes:
- You outrange him, he outspeeds you.
- Due to quick disjoints and his small stature, short hopped aerials are woefully innefective against him.
- OoS Usmash from Toonie is just plain terrifying. Do NOT dash attack if Toonie is in a position to sheil it. ESPECIALLY if you have high damage. He'll eat you alive.
Edgeguarding
Toonie Guarding Zelda
- He's not so great against Zelda, luckily. Long airdodges and the nature of Farore's are highly protective for you.
- BEWARE landing on the stage or say hello to something nasty from toonie. Trying to appear ON him will get you OoS Usmashed.
- When recovering from high, be defensive with airdodges and the like. do NOT get agressive and do NOT Din's glide or you might find yourself dying long before your time should have been up.
Zelda Guarding Toonie
- You should know the rules about zelda edgeguarding by now. In short: make sure you can safely make it back and not get punished for your attempt.
- Toonie's recovery is great as far as distance is concerned, but he's completely vulnerable to a good lightning stomp if the positioning is condusive for it.
Overall, I give zelda the advatage in theis department, but will add the disclaimer that it's not a deciding factor by any stretch of the imagination.
Stages
Luigi's Mansion
- Without a doubt your best choice for a stage. The pillars really hamtper TL's projectile game and the ceilings do quite a bit to keep the match ont he ground rather than in the air. The stage is almost built for Zelda in this matchup.
Conclusion:
Toon Link just has the advantage here. He owns the skies in the matchup and on the ground he has at least as many tools as Zelda. The only area in which she seems to have the advatage is in gimping and even then she's not fantastic at that.
I'm just hard pressed to find any reason Zelda should have the advatage here. If I had to give the clearest possible statement of my perspective of the matchup, I'd say that I'd be:
60% Willing to believe that it's 55:45 Toon Link
30% Willing to believe that it's 60:40 Toon Link
5% Willing to believe it's even or Zelda's advatage
5% Willing to believe that Toon Link has an advatage of 65:45 or more against Zelda.
I've rambled for far too long,but I submit what I've said as truth. If anyone has any comments or opinions, you are welcome to post them.
