Zelda Matchup Thread // OUTDATED

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

they have awful gab range mate.

the reason ICs are ranked as high as they are is largely due to the fact that you CONSTANTLY have to fear getting grabbed so long as both ICs are alive. This forces you off your game insofar as you have to fight at a larger distance which puts most characters at a disadvantage because they don't like being there.

the problem is, Zelda LIKES being there. She beats the ICs handily at that range and has plenty else going for her in the matchup. She is a ***** for them to try and grab and, if they relentlessly go for it, they are putting THEMSELVES at a disadvantage

good ic's wont just be trying to grab they will be using moves such as there downB which has good range and annoying priority/affect and can lead into a grab. i have been told i am a pretty good zelda by some good people and i have been able to beat this ic's guy i know once in a while but to avoide being grabbed through the whole match three time by a character who is able to di out of zelda's smashes better them many other characters is not easy and i think you people are underestimating the ic's and there ability to grab which i believe makes the 70/30 matchup false. maybe you guys just have not had to deal with the grab as much as i do for it seems very few can do it and even less do it well but once you fight someone who can do it the match becomes very one sided for the ic player.

now i feel bad for bringing this back to a dead discussion so i will write about zelda vs toon link a little.
he can be a tricking guy to fight since he is good in the air stronger then he looks as well as heavier then he looks and his range is not that bad, plus his projectiles are not the most useful to reflect. Even with these things going for him zelda's range is better or at least as good, he is a big projectile user so even through you might not be able to give him to much dmg by refelcting them you wont get dmg and it will sometimes force him to move and force him to think about if he wants to keep using his projectiles. toon is a guy who can recover from almost anywere which can be annoying but his recovery is a straight and simple one so you might be able to get some din's on him but at the min you wont be caught off-guard and killed by standing in the wrong spot when he up-B's. The best thing zelda has against him is that he has laggy moves many of which are his kill moves, this plus zelda's range and fast attack speed will hurt toon link alot. If he makes the mistake of using his grab his dair or almost any of his smashes and zelda is anywere near him it is a free shock for zelda. The worst thing in this fight for zelda is toon's air fighting ability he is fast disjointed and can combo and with fresh fair or nair and of course uair can kill and since zelda is not the best in the air it can mean trouble. Also there is dair but having him use this if you are ready can be a good thing one if he misses you should be able to hit him and two if you know you are fighting a toon that loves to dair you can upair him.

so over all even through i made it sound like toon might be a tough guy to fight i would say from my experiences fighting some good (not the best but good) toon's that zelda has the clear advantage in the matchup and i would say this is a clear 70/30 for zelda (she can lose this fight but she should win most of the time)

 

[SwastikaPyle]

I would not go as far as to call TL's kill moves 'laggy.' His d-smash and u-smash have fantastic speed, as well as his up-air which hangs out long enough to go right through an airdodge if positioned properly.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

This only works on inexperienced players. Those who know the matchup won't fall for it.

And echoing what Sonic said about smaller characters. Yes, you CAN do it, but it's much tougher to land a lightning kick on a moving D3 then a moving MK.

Being experienced doesn't mean you'll expect everything Zelda does 100% of the time. all it takes is one moment of greed for them to try to knock you of the ledge and you respond with an LK

also, I take it you just confused DDD and MK for each other since that's the only way that made sense.

good ic's wont just be trying to grab they will be using moves such as there downB which has good range and annoying priority/affect and can lead into a grab. i have been told i am a pretty good zelda by some good people and i have been able to beat this ic's guy i know once in a while but to avoide being grabbed through the whole match three time by a character who is able to di out of zelda's smashes better them many other characters is not easy and i think you people are underestimating the ic's and there ability to grab which i believe makes the 70/30 matchup false. maybe you guys just have not had to deal with the grab as much as i do for it seems very few can do it and even less do it well but once you fight someone who can do it the match becomes very one sided for the ic player.

they don't DI out very well at all sir. At least, nana doesn't. And if there aren't two iceclimbers, they aren't threatening. Zelda separates them easily and ***** nana once she's away.

 

[Brinzy]

it's not that you can't... it's just that it's harder and you have a much smaller margin of error.

Yes, exactly.

People act like they're immune to getting fair/bair'd though.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Yes, exactly.

People act like they're immune to getting fair/bair'd though.

it's not just that he's small though, his attacks are fast and disjointed allowing him to protect himself quite well.

it's not that you'll never have a chance of landing one. It's just you can never count on one.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

first off to sth yes nana cant di that well but popo can and he will smash you once your move is done or depending on your and nana's dmg he could grab you and then death. also a good ic will be able to if not keep the team together more often then you would like he will be able to get nana back before ou can get rid of her. i really believe you as well as most people just never get to fight good ic's and so you just say what you think is true from the so-so ic's you have fought or things that on paper make sense but the truth is the ic's are much much tougher then you say.

and to swastikapyle if you spot doge the first part of the d-smash you have a free hit, the up-samsh is the one move i was talknig about when i said zelda has a free hit if he uses ALMOST any of his smashes b/c his up-smash is a fast low lag move. and i said he is good in the air and upair is a air move. i did not say all his kill moves are laggy just a good amount of them also about the up air zelda does not want to be above the oppent anyway so even if his up-air was not great you would not want to be there anyway.

 

[RoyalBlood]

Bump! ;D

Done already with ToonLink? >:/

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I had the chance to face Quivo's toon link this weekend.

It was freaking amazing. The best toon link, by far, I've ever seen, much less had the pleasure to have fought against. Anyhow, it wasn't an absolutely terrible matchup for zelda, but the strengths I said he had are still true. A lot of the reason I did poorly against that toon link I mentioned last time must be because the WiFi latency KILLS zelda's precision and doesn't do near as much to hamper Toon Link. All in all, the matchup is pret. dang near even. who exactly has the advantage seems up for debate, but that there isn't a large one seems to be certain.

 

[QUIVO]

Tlink's zair outranges pretty much everything of Zelda's. For every character, you have to figure out when the TLink is going to use it. Most of the time it's a short hop airdodge to zair. Try powershielding or spot dodging them and punish with any of your smashes.

Tlink's follow up with zair are insane. Zair goes into bombs, nair, fair, bair,, fsmash at low percent, hyphen smash, grab, and up b.

Neutral b for zelda is decent for deflecting the projectiles and keeping tlink off of you. I wouldn't recommend spamming it or anything, just use it intelligently.

Powershielding is HUGE against Tlink.

Honestly, I think that Zelda's recovery is easy to punish with tlink. Be careful and tricky with how you recover.

Online, I've seen some Zelda's counter my aerial attacks and WoP with Usmash. It seems to work pretty well. Also, if I were to land behind a Zelda, dsmash could work well.

I wouldn't recommend platform stages against Tlink. It's so much easier for me to get bair combos against characters with platforms. They just really help Tlink for pressure and combos. The only reason I'd see why a Zelda MIGHT like a platform stage is for usmash and uair, possibly even bair/fair (maybe it's easier to hit with platforms?). Also, on battlefield.. don't always feel safe under the platform. Bombs go through that ****.

I don't really know what to say with Din's Fire, but predict where Tlink goes.

This matchup imo is like 65/35 to 60/40 in Tlink's favor.

I only got one match with Sonic's Zelda vs my Tlink and he ended up sd'ing once and I won with 2 stocks I think? I wish I could comment more, but I felt like I was able to keep control. His Zelda was good though, I'm pretty sure I had some trouble with a few of my other characters when we friendlied earlier that tournament.

 

[Brinzy]

Quivo, I'm bored. Wanna play?

 

[QUIVO]

Nah sorry, I don't feel like setting my wii up lol.

 

[Brinzy]

Haha, it's cool.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Tlink's zair outranges pretty much everything of Zelda's. For every character, you have to figure out when the TLink is going to use it. Most of the time it's a short hop airdodge to zair. Try powershielding or spot dodging them and punish with any of your smashes.

Tlink's follow up with zair are insane. Zair goes into bombs, nair, fair, bair,, fsmash at low percent, hyphen smash, grab, and up b.

Neutral b for zelda is decent for deflecting the projectiles and keeping tlink off of you. I wouldn't recommend spamming it or anything, just use it intelligently.

Powershielding is HUGE against Tlink.

Honestly, I think that Zelda's recovery is easy to punish with tlink. Be careful and tricky with how you recover.

Online, I've seen some Zelda's counter my aerial attacks and WoP with Usmash. It seems to work pretty well. Also, if I were to land behind a Zelda, dsmash could work well.

I wouldn't recommend platform stages against Tlink. It's so much easier for me to get bair combos against characters with platforms. They just really help Tlink for pressure and combos. The only reason I'd see why a Zelda MIGHT like a platform stage is for usmash and uair, possibly even bair/fair (maybe it's easier to hit with platforms?). Also, on battlefield.. don't always feel safe under the platform. Bombs go through that ****.

I don't really know what to say with Din's Fire, but predict where Tlink goes.

This matchup imo is like 65/35 to 60/40 in Tlink's favor.

I only got one match with Sonic's Zelda vs my Tlink and he ended up sd'ing once and I won with 2 stocks I think? I wish I could comment more, but I felt like I was able to keep control. His Zelda was good though, I'm pretty sure I had some trouble with a few of my other characters when we friendlied earlier that tournament.

yeah. We only got to play the once because there were so few TVs and they were so busy the whole time. It's really too bad because I did commit suicide by accident (as I'll occasionally do for no reason) and it made the match over before it should have been. Without the SD, had things gone the way they were going, he still would have won, it just would have been much closer, he'd have been on his last stock and such since my SD was at >20% damage. But the SD was also entirely my fault. In a moment of greed I went to edgeguard toon link, I botched it completely and then got Zair edgehogged.

Anyway, platform stages DO make it much easier to land aerials as I'm sure all you other Zeldas know, so battlefield isn't an awful stage. But the pillars hamper his projectile game so I'd still chose Luigi's Mansion given the choice.

Quivo's toon link WAS in control. His ridiculous use of projectiles and Zair kept contant pressure on me and it's only thanks to Zelda's cannon-like destructive capabilities that I was able to try to make it close. Inteligent use of din's and nayru's to counter toonies projectiles is a must. but, more important is spacing and timing. Zelda outranges toonie, but NORMALLY he has a faster option than you do, so you really have to try your best to keep him in your ideal range. it seemes to be that if
-he's SUPER close, you win (Dsmash),
-out of Dsmash's effective range, he wins,
-Close enough for you to connect but not him, you win
-any farther than that, he wins
You BOTH have effective ranges, he just has more than you. At least, that's my observation.

I still stick by my guns: 55:45 or 60:40 toon link.

 

[M@v]

i dont have too much experience with Zelda/sheik in this matchup, but its definitely best to use Zelda in this matchup. Naryu's love is a huge help, since TL has a huge spam game at his disposal. I have always liked TL; he seems to have a little of everything, strong moves, good priority, decent recovery, and a spam game. The tier list reflects that. Anyway, If you face a spammy TL, Naryu's love is a savior. If he is airborne, din's fire can cause him problems. The problem you might have is toon Link might try to keep the fight airborne, since that is your weak point. Do your best to stay grounded and give him utilt/usmashes. What goes up must come down . Use Zelda's great priority to your advantage. Don't try to rush things; approaching isn't one of your strong points. Spam din's fire for edgeguarding. If your lucky enough, you might catch him with a bomb in his hand. His best killers are dsmash, Upsmash, Fsmash, and u air.

If I had to summarize what I said above; TL beats you in the air. Stay grounded as much as possible. Dont rush things, and be mindful of TL's versatility.

 

[Timbers]

It's worth noting that I laugh heartily everytime I see the Wolf Flash picture.

Too good.

 

[-Mars-]

Can we get a new matchup please

 

[RoyalBlood]

I was thinking the same when you posted ^3^ Sure ;3
Updating, and a note to peoplez ;D
Whe we finish the match-ups, we can discuss the ones I left blank, hopefully you'll get moar experience on them so we can come to a conclusion WITH the other boards :3 I can't really add something useful ;3

Edit : Oh yeah! :o Stage for TL??

 

[SwastikaPyle]

The best thing about fighting Snake is that he is pretty much comically easy to destroy when you knock him offstage with a d-smash. It sends him out at such a low angle that he usually can't recover high enough to escape a lightning heel (or a din's at the very least).

 

[-Mars-]

Getting inside of Snake is hard as hell. He can camp like no other, you have no means of camping back, and your horrible at approaching..........good luck. You've really got to land lightning kicks to keep up with Snake because he's going to be killing you pretty early. He has stage control, priority, approach options........this matchup is HARD.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

I believe Zelda can camp just as well as Snake does. In fact, if she times it right, she can blow up his grenades with Din's right as they leave his hand, thus giving him 8% from the din's and 14 from the grenade.

Zelda has plenty of options against Snake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijkZG35CUpM

There is hopefully no doubts about the talent between these two players.

 

[-Mars-]

I've seen and re-seen those vids many times. DM's just Godly, there's no doubting that.

Snake can get two grenades out in the time it takes you to do one dins. On the bigger stages he's always going to keep you on the move. In this vid he couldn't do that because of the small stage and that's your best bet............BF,SV, or Yoshis Island. Avoid FD like the plague.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Snake is insanely hard to approach with his grenade spamming, down-b placing and f-/u-tilt and one of Zelda´s biggest problems is lack of approaching options, so the matchup isn´t at zelda´s favor. Snake also kills you at insanely low percents if you aren´t carefull.

I´d say Snake has a clear advantage, but the matchup isn´t impossible. Zelda can reflect his U-smash with Naury and destroy his nades and D-smashes with din, so in right situation Snake can have problems. He is also fairly easy to lightning kick because of his sice, aerial lagginess and way of recovering, so if Zelda gets a momentum in her side, she could potentially destroy Snake. Only that Snake has more than enough options to control the speed of the match and to create space around him and Zelda.

 

[Brinzy]

Yeah, definitely. I say Smashville is the best. There's a platform, but the stage is smaller than FD and you don't have to worry about him planting mines on platforms and him utilting and Usmashing at you through platforms.

 

[Timbers]

I don't think there's a character in this game that can abuse Smashville anymore than Snake can.

Seriously, moving c4s is scary ****. That alone will hinder your approach options much more than anything FD could ever dish out.

 

[Brinzy]

If you say so.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Seriously, moving c4s is scary ****. That alone will hinder your approach options much more than anything FD could ever dish out.

True, moving c4 and grenades are scary, but I still think that it´s better than FD, but not the best stage IMO. I like battlefield better as long as you can stay on the base platform and Snake stays above you. If (and when) you end up being higher it´s going to be pain though...

 

[Kataefi]

This is certainly an old video but it's a great match between a Snake and Zelda and I think there could be things to learn:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9Om103fDlBY

They're both very aggressive. Maybe that's why it looks so tense?
1:27 to 1:33 is great!

Both characters can camp well. I think Snake is the better spammer however. Grenades are harder to spot, plus he has C4 and Dsmash give him the edge in setting up traps. That could force Zelda into jumping more and bring her into the air, which is hit or miss for her and not worth the risk.

Zelda on the other hand can explode Snake's C4 and grenades with din's. She can reflect grenades (though this may not be of much help...), and snake is a great target for lightning kicks, particularly double SHbairs.

For this reason I think it is looking towards a slight advantage for snake. BUT Snake has Ftilt and Utilt which are awkward to deal with and come across broken in their speed, power and priority. So it's hard for Zelda to get into Snake's territory and hard for Zelda once she's there. And vice versa actually! I find that Zelda is the female version of Snake albeit much much lighter.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I don't have much time now... but I'll post more later. for now:
-stage for toon link:
Luigi's mansion: kills his projectile game AND aerial game as well as hambering his KO options severely.

-Snake matchup opinion
Clearly his advantage. Sheik is great against him but has trouble KOing, so if you run a good Zelda/Sheik tandem offense you've probably got an edge, but Zelda or Sheik alone just suffers for reasons alreay posted. probably 60:40 snake... sorry blokes.

-Special advantages he has:
Priority: seriously, if you don't PERFECTLY space your attacks, even Fsmash, he'll go right through them. Ftilt, utilt, dtilt, dash attack.... all go through anything you do if you don't space it properly.
Camping: You have din's... that discourages snake somewhat and COMPLETELY destorys his ability to use nikita at a distance... but if it gets to an all out camp war: he wins. his nades are so much better than din's.
Weight: even LKs won't kill him until heavy damages.
power: he can toss you around like a rag doll starting at about 90 damage
attack speed: other than your dsmash... he wins.

honestly I have so much trouble with snake.

DO NOT cp smashville against him or FD. Go battlefeild or mansion and pray for some easy edgeguards... the only place he's putty in your hands.

 

[Bandit]

If snake is above you, he can't escape your usmash unless he pulls a nade and takes the damage. He is still vulnerable to dtilt tripping as I had great success with that just yesterday against a snake. I would put him at a slight advantage due to his insane power, but he can still be killed at reasonable percentages.

 

[RoyalBlood]

^ This ;3 Lightning Kicks (fresh) start killing at 80? (well they start killing before 100%, same with U-air)

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

too bad they are also a good way to rack up damage and if they sourspot they'll decay. and positioning for them against snake can be a pain.

you're delusional if you think you'll be getting consistent double digit KOs.

 

[RoyalBlood]

Oh noez >:3 Too negative, every Zelda player has a different way of racking damage up ;3 It's fun to save them for KO's =D

U-smash and F-smash are the way to go when racking damage, and landing lightning kicks isn't THAT hard ;3

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Oh noez >:3 Too negative, every Zelda player has a different way of racking damage up ;3 It's fun to save them for KO's =D

U-smash and F-smash are the way to go when racking damage, and landing lightning kicks isn't THAT hard ;3

you obviously aren't playing good snakes.

Usmash and Fsmash are good damage rackers. it's true, but you'll get to use them against snake far less than against most chacrters. He beats out your fsamsh unless you're at max range with it, and he's an idiot if he's in the air above you.

as for saving LKs? it's a nice thought, but you need to damage snake however you can. If a LK becomes available, you take it. And Snake IS a big target for LKs, but it's VERY risky. Get him in a compromising position first or you'll pay.

You whiff one on the ground and you get Utilted... dead. in the air it's safer, but he can still punish if you don't sweetspot.

Seriously. Zelda mains severely underestimate snake. if you don't pull out sheik first... you'll lose. that's pretty much it. You NEED all those fresh moves to be able to kill snake relatively quickly. Neither sheik nor zelda can do it without the other.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

im agreeing with Sonic. i don't fight snake often but if i do i tend to stay shiek until i knock him of stage and if hes not dead by 160% i go Zelda. XD

 

[RoyalBlood]

Well it seems you cannot let yourself get other people points of view, you're so close minded >.>

I'll just say this , space better ;3

And I've played goo snakes, i wouldn't say this if it didn't work with me right? D=

But your argument is pretty good so that's why I can't say much ^_^

 

[-Mars-]

you obviously aren't playing good snakes.

Usmash and Fsmash are good damage rackers. it's true, but you'll get to use them against snake far less than against most chacrters. He beats out your fsamsh unless you're at max range with it, and he's an idiot if he's in the air above you.

as for saving LKs? it's a nice thought, but you need to damage snake however you can. If a LK becomes available, you take it. And Snake IS a big target for LKs, but it's VERY risky. Get him in a compromising position first or you'll pay.

You whiff one on the ground and you get Utilted... dead. in the air it's safer, but he can still punish if you don't sweetspot.

Seriously. Zelda mains severely underestimate snake. if you don't pull out sheik first... you'll lose. that's pretty much it. You NEED all those fresh moves to be able to kill snake relatively quickly. Neither sheik nor zelda can do it without the other.

Couldn't agree with you more, that's exactly what I was trying to say earlier.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Usmash and Fsmash are good damage rackers. it's true, but you'll get to use them against snake far less than against most chacrters. He beats out your fsamsh unless you're at max range with it, and he's an idiot if he's in the air above you

Running U-smashes work fairly well when Snake mistimes a mineplanting or grenade tossing, as well as when chasing him. Just got to watch out for those dair's and f-tilts (or a predicted f-smash) of his and it will be usefull damager. F-smash also gives Snake some pressure while recovering, as well as when you get to a good distance where you hit him, but he can't easily hit you.

One thing that hurts the matchup for Zelda is that many of her finishers send enemies up (u-smash, u-tilt, uair, Din) and Snake certainly isn't easy to kill that way.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I played Forward's snake last weekend. I had the advantage the first stock of the first match. I think he underestimated me because I was a no-name. Anyway, I was doing exceptional. Excellent spacing, excellent precision and timing. and excellent decisions.... but then he started winning. see... all it takes is one or two mistakes and you're dead. Zelda has quite a bit that she can do to snake, but seriously she has to be near flawless... snake is allowed to make many many more mistakes with no fear of serious punishment... zelda makes one mistake and she'll take damage she couldn't afford or she'll die... it's that simple.

You say to space better, Royal, but zelda doesn't really have tools to space well against snake. he can reset spacing SO easily.

Zelda has to work a lot harder than snake in the matchup. Hence, it's his advantage.

We're actually discussing him in the Zelda/Sheik back room right now and we seem to think a dual front is completely necessary.



as for some nifty advice:

most snakes I've played LOVE mortarsliding to the edge if you are hanging.

if they do that, just ledge release -> rising fair them or ledgedrop -> uair them.

 

[Oh Snap]

I don't find Snake that hard to deal with overall...

it's just his freaking tilts.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

You can, and WILL, get Snake in the air at some point, and that is where Zelda wants him in this matchup. Snake's love to FF AD right next to opponent's, and Zelda is excellent at punishing those. Dtilt and dsmash will be your friends in this matchup. Dsmash is EXCELLENT for putting Snake in a gimping position, you just have to be quick to chase him. If he recovers high, send fire his way, then usmash him when he lands (snake isn't very mobile in the air, this shouldn't be too hard).

At mid-range, don't be afraid to throw out a Din's. When detonated properly, you can stop his mortar slide approach and still hit him if he tries to roll past it. You can see DM doing it quite well in his videos.

The main danger is Snake's uptilt, which isn't any more dangerous then it is against other characters. Just space properly, and you can win. His main weapons are his tilts, you can get around these by playing smart.

I think you guys are making a bigger deal out of grenades then you need to. It's not like they're going to explode the moment they hit you, you can even use NL to bounce them off of yourself, or pick them up and throw them away after shielding. A smart player knows his way around grenades.

Snake IS a difficult matchup but not impossible.