Nordal
Smash Lord
I'm liking what this could do for down tilt spacing
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Yoshi Social-20 years of Yoshi's Island!
- Thread starter Nikes
- Start date
Sharky
Smash Master
could see myself using it to continue a string with a utilt as well where I otherwise would have to end it with a dash attack/usmash or something
Gliffie
Smash Apprentice
I should use fair to set up more
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DragonsofUganda
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2014
- Messages
- 18
What's the best way to maintain pressure as Yoshi?
I like to apply passive pressure by dashing around and doing a mix of egg-toss and Nair, both are pretty much always safe unless the opponent reads your movements and they both allows you to transition into something more dangerous like Uair, USmash, dash attack, grab... I don't like going for the other aerials since they're pretty hard to land due to long start-up and/or multi hitting not being so consistent for me for some reason, i like to keep them for reads instead of spamming them in my pressure game.
Also i like to mix with pivot ftilt and pivot grab when the opponent have a hard time to read my approches and i know that he won't react in time when i go to pass right through him.
Also i like to mix with pivot ftilt and pivot grab when the opponent have a hard time to read my approches and i know that he won't react in time when i go to pass right through him.
El Cid
Smash Cadet
What in the hell even happened to Yoshi? It's like he's been at the gym everyday preparing or something. Whenever I see a Yoshi on For Glory, I always just feel like rage quitting just looking at him. You have to be extremely careful and offensive fighting him. It think it's kind of hilarious that he's gone from being THE worst character to being potentially one of the best. Maybe it's just the characters I use don't go well against Yoshi, but I think he's just a lot better.
I'm not sure I know exactly what it is that's different. He plays the same, he has the same moves and so on, but the differences are enough to make him much better. For one thing, I noticed he goes into another attack much quicker than he did before and maybe even any other character in the game. I guess it's called buffering? Anyway, he does it extremely well. All of his attacks flow seamlessly and he goes really fast. It's like he's never even heard of frames of animation.
His up b also is also a bit different, as he can now use to to wave dash (?) and he can shoot a golden egg straight up, but I don't know what triggers this. His Smash attacks are much more powerful. The best way to counter him I've found is just being extremely aggressive, but I don't usually play that way and that's probably why I almost always lose. And of course, if you somehow force him to use his midair jump and then knock him off he's screwed, but skilled players probably won't let you do that.
I'm not sure I know exactly what it is that's different. He plays the same, he has the same moves and so on, but the differences are enough to make him much better. For one thing, I noticed he goes into another attack much quicker than he did before and maybe even any other character in the game. I guess it's called buffering? Anyway, he does it extremely well. All of his attacks flow seamlessly and he goes really fast. It's like he's never even heard of frames of animation.
His up b also is also a bit different, as he can now use to to wave dash (?) and he can shoot a golden egg straight up, but I don't know what triggers this. His Smash attacks are much more powerful. The best way to counter him I've found is just being extremely aggressive, but I don't usually play that way and that's probably why I almost always lose. And of course, if you somehow force him to use his midair jump and then knock him off he's screwed, but skilled players probably won't let you do that.
MDZ
Smash Journeyman
What's up guys! Smash-boards Yoshi '06er here. Wasn't much of a tournament goer aside from some local ones but definitely used to keep up with the Yoshi community a lot back then. I ran a YouTube account that would upload Yoshi footage from guys like Fumi, Svampen, Gabe, and basically anyone competitive that would run Yoshi - did this back when footage was extremely hard to find especially of Japanese players. This was the account, if anyone came across it in their Yoshi time:
https://www.youtube.com/user/MDZealot/videos
I didn't play much of Brawl but will be looking to get into SSB4 for the WiiU. Recognize a few names here, good to see the Yoshi boards are active.
I wish I still had my sig/avi
Imageshack must've lost it and I have no way of finding it haha. Sucks!
https://www.youtube.com/user/MDZealot/videos
I didn't play much of Brawl but will be looking to get into SSB4 for the WiiU. Recognize a few names here, good to see the Yoshi boards are active.
I wish I still had my sig/avi
Imageshack must've lost it and I have no way of finding it haha. Sucks!
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DragonsofUganda
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2014
- Messages
- 18
Well how exactly do I use egg-toss effectively? Every time I try to use it, it seems to just miss and be useless lol.
I'm wondering if you can clarify what you mean by pressure.
Are you talking about applying safe shield pressure when you're pressing an advantage or maybe you're looking for things to do in order to establish an advantage? I feel like the question is very open-ended and knowing the content of your question would make getting meaningful answers much simpler.
Are you talking about applying safe shield pressure when you're pressing an advantage or maybe you're looking for things to do in order to establish an advantage? I feel like the question is very open-ended and knowing the content of your question would make getting meaningful answers much simpler.
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MDZ
Smash Journeyman
^It was definitely a huge surprise to see you posting the one day in years I log on Shiri! Glad we'll have online to play with eachother this time around!
10 years since you've made your account here, 8 since I made mine. Holy, how old are we hahaha
10 years since you've made your account here, 8 since I made mine. Holy, how old are we hahaha
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Shiri you know how it is for me. I'm always on here to help all the new peeps and make Yoshi better no matter what.
Too bad I didn't get to stick with the melee Yoshis too long. Though, that might change since I'm practicing him up (thanks to PM). Gonna rock everyone with Yoshi in every game.
Too bad I didn't get to stick with the melee Yoshis too long. Though, that might change since I'm practicing him up (thanks to PM). Gonna rock everyone with Yoshi in every game.
DragonsofUganda
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2014
- Messages
- 18
Well, to establish an advantage, so that I CAN apply pressure with things like dair.
Sharky
Smash Master
Shiri, good Sir, it is good to see you again. =D
db132
Smash Rookie
As far as accuracy, there's always training mode. You can set the computer to "Run" so that they try to avoid you and just pelt them with eggs for as long as you want to help improve on hitting moving targets. Air eggs can be spammed faster than ground ones as well; Yoshi seems to have great air mobility, allowing him to follow the paths of his eggs with an attack depending on how far away it's thrown.
Okay, sweet (you may want to edit the OP to make this more clear for others who want to contribute).
In order to establish an advantage so you can abuse people in their shields (it sounds like that's your goal), you have to do two things, and you generally have to do them at the same time. You have to: 1] close distance and 2] reduce options for opposing movement/counterattack.
Closing the distance between you and an opponent depends on the matchup and their ability to keep you out or, on the other hand, their ability to close the distance on you and begin applying pressure before you can. In general, Yoshi can close space quickly. He has decent run speed, two big jumps and specials that move him forward while also keeping his momentum. Reducing enemy movement and options are important because you don't want to spend all this time getting in, maybe even taking damage on the way there, only to have someone squirm out or blast you away to have you start all over again. More importantly, reducing options means that the opponent has a higher chance of relying on universal defensive mechanics, which means that your end goal of putting people in shield is that much closer.
The difficult part is putting these two ideas together at once. For example, if you really wanted to, you could just Egg Roll at people to close distance, but because you're not really reducing the enemy's options while moving at them, they can simply jump away and begin running...and this is just the least punishing example. With all this being said, Yoshi has some choices he can make to get the job done.
Keep in mind everything is matchup-dependent and when thinking of establishing an advantage, you have to assume when thinking about these things is that 1] the opponent knows the matchup (always assume this until they've proven otherwise during play) and 2] they are always in a position to run away (i.e., they're not perpetually at the edge of FD and down a stock and fifty percent every time you consider a scenario).
One option (and it's still early, so I don't know how good it is, although it's usually a very safe bet) is to approach on foot and control ground space while inching forward to force the enemy to take risks to get out or to jump away. I mean things like dashing, using down tilt and pivot forward tilts, short hop back air, sliding Egg Toss and Egg Lay. This method is designed to be the safest way in, although it's probably the easiest to get out of. By controlling the ground and spacing properly while inching your way in, opponents can't run past you or roll past you, running up and shielding can be variably unsafe depending on what they shield (with Egg Lay being a good option to stop that if it becomes a pattern) and if your spacing is good then they have a low chance of successfully counterpoking you. Unfortunately, jumping our of this or running further away from this is really easy and is part of the reason Yoshi is so weak to run-away.
Another option is to be more aggressive and reactive by taking a low-flying aerial approach. With this method, you cover more escape options at once, but you are committing more heavily and are more prone to someone attacking you back in order to get you away from them or to set up their own offense. This method involves advancing neutral airs, aerial Egg Toss, falling Egg Lay, full jump back airs and reacting to aerial escapes with double jump. Advancing neutral airs create a moving wall that discourages the enemy's forward movement and ends early enough to perform another action when landing. Full jump back airs discourage single jumps and the duration of the move covers the opponent's airdodge option while having a very good recovery time, making it easy to use and queue up another action after. Falling Egg Lay is here as a detriment to those who run up and shield, expecting to punish a falling aerial attack.
A few notes on aerial Egg Toss. I'm still learning about it--the move is good, but learning to control it can be difficult. Aerial eggs make a great wall because of their new arcs and the recovery on the throw in the air makes reacting to the enemy a little easier than in the past. The problem with aerial eggs is that whether you're throwing them with the intention of covering your descent/approach or throwing them in a more offensive manner with the intention to tag someone, this is still the option that has the most startup and, as such, is the easiest to avoid with movement. Depending on the situation, enemies can simply run under and away from advancing aerial eggs more often than not.
There are a few other ways to handle creating advantage with the intention of forcing your opponent into shield. You can mix and match styles (I'm certainly not suggesting that you stick any one particular method all the time), but you have to keep in mind all the strengths and weaknesses of all these different methods as you switch between them because creating a concrete advantage that opponents have to respect is a core weakness of the character. Making a strong approach in the neutral a core element of your gameplay means working around this very real weakness.
Funkermonster
The Clown
Anybody got a gif of Yoshi's new standing animation? I just think its funny how he's dancing now.
AquaTech
We hit the potjack
I finally got my hands on the game 2 days ago. It is amazing to see how responsive Yoshi is and how much more priority his moves have now. He's still got that quirky feel to him too
Nikes
Smash Lord
What kept you?
Yeah Yoshi wasn't available on the Wii U demo back when they were at best buy and such.
Gliffie
Smash Apprentice
Man, I just hope they don't patch out all the fun stuff when the Wii U version comes out.
Gliffie
Smash Apprentice
So, simple question, what's Yoshi's best rest/shield break punish? Usmash?
Nikes
Smash Lord
Taunting
If they're at lower %'s I just go for a Dair and try to get the last hit to pop them up and follow up with Uair strings or a Nair to soft off-stage nair for gimping. Higher %'s just any charged smash really, obviously dependent on where they're situated. I like to nudge them along closer toward the ledge then slightly charge Fsmash to be a little more unique, but the time it takes to do that you're probably better off just fully charging it.
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This post obviously didn't warrant its own thread but wasn't sure either in social where it'll be drowned out and ignored eventually or in Yoshi labs where it'll at least sit on page 2 and a year later there will only be 5 or 6 pages prolly lol.
I finally got to play 3ds Yoshi compared to the 30 or less seconds I had since the Best buy demo. But because of the controls and quite honestly my first time touching a 3DS it took a couple matches for me to jus- well no nvm still was pressing buttons wrong SD cause hitting B for jump when it's actually Y cuz placement.
Anyways Yoshi felt good to play despite the bleh controls and the characters I fought against I feel like Yoshi could do well against. Yoshi just feels strong overall
Pac-man I feel doesn't have anything that threatening (yet?) that can make Yoshi players wish we never play against him.
Little mac is Little Mac, you allow him to do what he wants on the ground, you'll get your nose punched in otherwise I feel Yoshi can play around it and win still. The air is still his worst nightmare.
Ness nothing special, nerfs and buffs he got makes him feel the same still outside of Up B being more annoying now since our eggs don't destroy it.
Palutena is weird, she feels like low tier but she's also annoying to play against.
No problems against Megaman until somebody makes him good somehow or just good metal blade play like Wario with tires in brawl?
Don't feel like listing em all but that's what I mostly played against.
A thing or two I hate to admit, but will agree with Shiri, is that Yoshi quite honestly has always been about smoke and mirrors, gimmicks.
Yoshi was all about DR'ing wavebouncing eggs or being slippery in the air while still slapping you away with his tail + face when you think you're about to get a hit on him finally, or B-reversing everywhere. That might've been why I slightly didn't enjoy watching Polt's Yoshi back in the day cause of how bland and textbook it was as he got hit by many things.
But it worked for him and because I expect him to, say do a platform cancel on SV to Upsmash somebody in the air, but he approached with Fair instead ignoring the platform completely it always worked cause it was a wishy-washy style that just worked most of the time. Even though I tried to teach him B-reverse and platform cancel without just having to tap down twice.
Delta's style back then was just camp, and there was not much to love or hate about it tbh. Just camp against characters who deserve it while playing safe and smart.
As I was kinda on about tho, being unable to move as freely around the air or ground with Yoshi (not counting those silly almost useless techs) was awkward especially since I had to change my playstyle on foreign controls. Had to cutback extremely on the little tricksies and just go back to reading the opponent and punishing hard since that seemed to work out and reward so much more in this game. Even while hindered by the controls I was still feeling like I accomplished more from a hard read then I would've from a from a B-reverse, platform cancel or DR into a Fsmash.
As Shiriririririri said, we all just need to change our playstyle to fit the new Yoshi. We have a regular shield now so we need to get use to UpB/Smash OoS using it to actually jump out of it since I still see no Yoshi's doing that (videos at least) and even I forgot I had that, wait and punish their landings or airdodges more since we can't just be flying all over the stage anymore but needing to put bait out to get KOs off.
So come Wii U version, hopefully we'll all be able to adapt in time in maybe a month or so and start making Yoshi rise past the depths of low tier and cheeky stunts to look pretty on stage. (being bottom of mid tier in Brawl is still low tier, just a "don't be in low tier cause everyone will play you if you are" reason he's not down there)
I finally got to play 3ds Yoshi compared to the 30 or less seconds I had since the Best buy demo. But because of the controls and quite honestly my first time touching a 3DS it took a couple matches for me to jus- well no nvm still was pressing buttons wrong SD cause hitting B for jump when it's actually Y cuz placement.
Anyways Yoshi felt good to play despite the bleh controls and the characters I fought against I feel like Yoshi could do well against. Yoshi just feels strong overall
Pac-man I feel doesn't have anything that threatening (yet?) that can make Yoshi players wish we never play against him.
Little mac is Little Mac, you allow him to do what he wants on the ground, you'll get your nose punched in otherwise I feel Yoshi can play around it and win still. The air is still his worst nightmare.
Ness nothing special, nerfs and buffs he got makes him feel the same still outside of Up B being more annoying now since our eggs don't destroy it.
Palutena is weird, she feels like low tier but she's also annoying to play against.
No problems against Megaman until somebody makes him good somehow or just good metal blade play like Wario with tires in brawl?
Don't feel like listing em all but that's what I mostly played against.
A thing or two I hate to admit, but will agree with Shiri, is that Yoshi quite honestly has always been about smoke and mirrors, gimmicks.
Yoshi was all about DR'ing wavebouncing eggs or being slippery in the air while still slapping you away with his tail + face when you think you're about to get a hit on him finally, or B-reversing everywhere. That might've been why I slightly didn't enjoy watching Polt's Yoshi back in the day cause of how bland and textbook it was as he got hit by many things.
But it worked for him and because I expect him to, say do a platform cancel on SV to Upsmash somebody in the air, but he approached with Fair instead ignoring the platform completely it always worked cause it was a wishy-washy style that just worked most of the time. Even though I tried to teach him B-reverse and platform cancel without just having to tap down twice.
Delta's style back then was just camp, and there was not much to love or hate about it tbh. Just camp against characters who deserve it while playing safe and smart.
As I was kinda on about tho, being unable to move as freely around the air or ground with Yoshi (not counting those silly almost useless techs) was awkward especially since I had to change my playstyle on foreign controls. Had to cutback extremely on the little tricksies and just go back to reading the opponent and punishing hard since that seemed to work out and reward so much more in this game. Even while hindered by the controls I was still feeling like I accomplished more from a hard read then I would've from a from a B-reverse, platform cancel or DR into a Fsmash.
As Shiriririririri said, we all just need to change our playstyle to fit the new Yoshi. We have a regular shield now so we need to get use to UpB/Smash OoS using it to actually jump out of it since I still see no Yoshi's doing that (videos at least) and even I forgot I had that, wait and punish their landings or airdodges more since we can't just be flying all over the stage anymore but needing to put bait out to get KOs off.
So come Wii U version, hopefully we'll all be able to adapt in time in maybe a month or so and start making Yoshi rise past the depths of low tier and cheeky stunts to look pretty on stage. (being bottom of mid tier in Brawl is still low tier, just a "don't be in low tier cause everyone will play you if you are" reason he's not down there)
You are speaking for all of us i guess, since it seems like the standard routine for us Brawl Yoshi's.
I felt the exact same things.
But now, every time i actually do jump out of the shield and NAir the enemy after getting pressured, it feels so friggn good.
I just miss the Brawl BAir, since it gave such a good low-% shredding potential. Also since we actually CAN change our facing direction in mid-air, i find it kinda unnecessary to change BAir to a killing move.
But that's all, otherwise i'm fine, even though i think Yoshi gets kinda overhyped.
I've already been "flamed" for picking an OP character lol...
I felt the exact same things.
But now, every time i actually do jump out of the shield and NAir the enemy after getting pressured, it feels so friggn good.
I just miss the Brawl BAir, since it gave such a good low-% shredding potential. Also since we actually CAN change our facing direction in mid-air, i find it kinda unnecessary to change BAir to a killing move.
But that's all, otherwise i'm fine, even though i think Yoshi gets kinda overhyped.
I've already been "flamed" for picking an OP character lol...
Nikes
Smash Lord
By Little Mac For Glory players who were ex Brawl MK mains right?
Airborne
Smash Lord
WE BACK!!! Shiri da bessssssss
What's good, everybody?
What's good, everybody?
Are there any good Yoshis here that just love to camp with eggs? I need some practice
I've played some good Yoshis on FG and I'm 100% sure the matchup favors Yoshi against Kirby. Yoshi's run speed is good and his air speed is godlike in this game. My FC should be on my profile, leave me a message and I'll get back to you later today if you want to play :D?
God there are like 47 other characters I'm going to need practice against, this is going to be tedious. Yoshi is definitely looking great in this game though, I kinda want to play him but I always found him so awkward to play (unlike in Mario Kart where I get to main him for free)
I've played some good Yoshis on FG and I'm 100% sure the matchup favors Yoshi against Kirby. Yoshi's run speed is good and his air speed is godlike in this game. My FC should be on my profile, leave me a message and I'll get back to you later today if you want to play :D?
God there are like 47 other characters I'm going to need practice against, this is going to be tedious. Yoshi is definitely looking great in this game though, I kinda want to play him but I always found him so awkward to play (unlike in Mario Kart where I get to main him for free)
Airborne
Smash Lord
If custom moves aren't being used, any attack will bounce the Gordo back into him. In fact, shielding them will bounce them back into him as well and he's able to be hit by them in all situations. Toss eggs so that he's unable to approach into the range where his dtilt, dtilt, and aerials become effective. Respect his Nair and utilt in air to air and anti air situations. His only real options out of shield are Nair and shield grab so try to set up situations where you can bait those options and punish them if he gets shield happy.
Nordal
Smash Lord
FH Uair from the ground will hit DDD and is pretty surprising/hard to punish. You could just shield gordos and retaliate with jump egg toss OoS. If he's just shielding everything you can also egg lay.
I don't really love to camp but I can do it if you wanna play me later.
Are there any good Yoshis here that just love to camp with eggs? I need some practice
I've played some good Yoshis on FG and I'm 100% sure the matchup favors Yoshi against Kirby. Yoshi's run speed is good and his air speed is godlike in this game. My FC should be on my profile, leave me a message and I'll get back to you later today if you want to play :D?
God there are like 47 other characters I'm going to need practice against, this is going to be tedious. Yoshi is definitely looking great in this game though, I kinda want to play him but I always found him so awkward to play (unlike in Mario Kart where I get to main him for free)
I don't really love to camp but I can do it if you wanna play me later.
AirJay
Smash Amatuer
Has anyone played a good rosalina and would like to talk about that mu it seems difficult like i feel like you need to be in close range the whole time so luma wont be able to hit you and eggs seem pointless since she can just pull them in
Nikes
Smash Lord
Haven't played any good Rosalinas as of yet, but I'll still try to help out.
Luma's gone as soon as you get it off stage as it can't jump, so probs dash attack it when it's far away from Rosalina. You may know this already but Luma's can't be grabbed so you've gotta keep that in mind. Too bad she just spawns another in like 10 seconds
I still short hop egg toss because while she's pulling the egg in I can get in any move I want at all since she's occupied. Watch out for her dash attack, it catches me off guard lots and it makes me question my life decisions when I get hit by it repeatedly >.>
Weirdest thing, my egg roll clanked with her Fsmash earlier o_0 Looks like random egg roll invincibility may still be a thing?
Luma's gone as soon as you get it off stage as it can't jump, so probs dash attack it when it's far away from Rosalina. You may know this already but Luma's can't be grabbed so you've gotta keep that in mind. Too bad she just spawns another in like 10 seconds
I still short hop egg toss because while she's pulling the egg in I can get in any move I want at all since she's occupied. Watch out for her dash attack, it catches me off guard lots and it makes me question my life decisions when I get hit by it repeatedly >.>
Weirdest thing, my egg roll clanked with her Fsmash earlier o_0 Looks like random egg roll invincibility may still be a thing?
PlasmaPuffball
Smash Apprentice
My friend mains Rosalina, so I may be able to help a little bit, hopefully.
Generally, I start the match with SH Egg Tosses, she's forced to approach cuz Egg Toss snuffs out Luma Shot and she can't use her Down B cuz Yoshi is fast enough to punish the ending lag. You want to stay in her face, but you can't really grab her or Egg Lay her if Luma is there, since he'll just punish you for it. I find that Dash Attack is good at killing off Luma because it sends him at an angle into his tumbling animation, where he'll generally die offstage and Rosalina can't save him, and if the Dash Attack is spaced properly, it may be hard for Rosalina to punish it. Things to watch out for are her Dash Attack and aerials. I find that it's hard for Yoshi to challenge her in the air since all her aerials are disjointed hitboxes with good range, and well, Yoshi doesn't have disjointed hitboxes of his own. Her Dash Attack is kinda annoying to me, it has longer range than it looks and pops you up into the air. I find the getting her into the air makes things easier, with Yoshi on the ground of course, cuz then you setup Egg Toss traps, and if she tries to use aerials on her way down, they're laggy enough for Yoshi to punish. I like to bait out her Dair because that move makes it hard for Yoshi to use his Uair for finishing her since it always loses to it, but the ending lag of it is enough time to get in an Uair. I also like to go offstage against her because her recovery is predictable and has no hitbox, so I like to wait by the ledge offstage with a Nair or Fair.
Generally, I start the match with SH Egg Tosses, she's forced to approach cuz Egg Toss snuffs out Luma Shot and she can't use her Down B cuz Yoshi is fast enough to punish the ending lag. You want to stay in her face, but you can't really grab her or Egg Lay her if Luma is there, since he'll just punish you for it. I find that Dash Attack is good at killing off Luma because it sends him at an angle into his tumbling animation, where he'll generally die offstage and Rosalina can't save him, and if the Dash Attack is spaced properly, it may be hard for Rosalina to punish it. Things to watch out for are her Dash Attack and aerials. I find that it's hard for Yoshi to challenge her in the air since all her aerials are disjointed hitboxes with good range, and well, Yoshi doesn't have disjointed hitboxes of his own. Her Dash Attack is kinda annoying to me, it has longer range than it looks and pops you up into the air. I find the getting her into the air makes things easier, with Yoshi on the ground of course, cuz then you setup Egg Toss traps, and if she tries to use aerials on her way down, they're laggy enough for Yoshi to punish. I like to bait out her Dair because that move makes it hard for Yoshi to use his Uair for finishing her since it always loses to it, but the ending lag of it is enough time to get in an Uair. I also like to go offstage against her because her recovery is predictable and has no hitbox, so I like to wait by the ledge offstage with a Nair or Fair.
Saikyoshi
Smash Master
I've been drifting away from Yoshi in favor of less-prone-to-insults characters, but I've been trying to keep him up. My win rate, primarily with him and G-dubs, is around 70% over 224 matches.