Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
^ This. Its just not worth it. If MK gets under it, which he easily can, we take a lot of unnecessary damage.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
YGD - As the snow melts, the mighty Dinosaur rises once more!
- Thread starter Delta-cod
- Start date
Depster
Smash Champion
He has to be about 3/4 across FD or else you get hit.
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
What about egg planking?
I guess he'd just dair you, but it seems like a safer option.
I don't use ledges that much.
I don't even pass MKs LGL on norfair alot of the time.
I guess he'd just dair you, but it seems like a safer option.
I don't use ledges that much.
I don't even pass MKs LGL on norfair alot of the time.
Depster
Smash Champion
From the ledge is a different story... Totally different lol. There are even more rules for that one...
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
In a good way or bad way?
Ooh this dosent matter as much for me. Next tourney I go to should be next month and MK is banned there:/
Ooh this dosent matter as much for me. Next tourney I go to should be next month and MK is banned there:/
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
It depends. He can tornado us to pick us up from the ledge, but eggs also beat Nado. Grounded shuttle loop can get us from below the ledge as well. In general, you can use the ECE to help get up from the ledge, but I wouldn't look to it as a reliable camp method.
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
Airborne
Smash Lord
Hmm, anyone ever got stage spiked by nado from being picked up from the ledge? That'd be hilarious.
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
Yeah, I have, but its a weak spike so you can easily just double jump back.
Depster
Smash Champion
@GnW: DJUair, DJNair, Egg roll, grab, eggs, fsmash, usmash, and perfectly spaced yoshi bomb from above all beat tornado.
Silent Beast
Smash Journeyman
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
Well fancy that!
Nado sucks then.
Yoshi win
Nado sucks then.
Yoshi win
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
I agree. I was massively underwhelmed. All I had to do was clear water from my basement (about an inch) and keep checking on it periodically until it stopped seeping in. I've had worse in storms not classified as hurricanes.
Irene sucked.
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
Irene sucked....
Everyone wanted her to blow tho
K there's my dirty joke of the year.
Anyone wanna brawl on wifi tomorow?
I get outa school at 1:30 central.
Everyone wanted her to blow tho
K there's my dirty joke of the year.
Anyone wanna brawl on wifi tomorow?
I get outa school at 1:30 central.
AlexoftheAura
yaylatias.gif
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
Oooooooh if only I was a mod.
I just wan discussion.
When I said troll da yoshis I did NOT mean myself.
I'm never joining your IRC again.
I just wan discussion.
When I said troll da yoshis I did NOT mean myself.
I'm never joining your IRC again.
Doesn't matter, we're dead for a reason. We just enter tournaments to keep repping Yoshi and occasionally discuss stuff here and there.
Plus (I believe) auro's and I's Stage discussion threads died mostly cause there was hardly any discussion and even the thread owners didn't know what to start on.
Plus (I believe) auro's and I's Stage discussion threads died mostly cause there was hardly any discussion and even the thread owners didn't know what to start on.
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
I've almost finished RC.
The ICs could learn from organization of these boards.
But these boards need their discussion.
We need listed ways to come look up different oppinions on different stages, or different matchups.
I think smash discussion is important to the character.
And the community of a character is a good comunity!(lucarios and peachs and all them)
The ICs could learn from organization of these boards.
But these boards need their discussion.
We need listed ways to come look up different oppinions on different stages, or different matchups.
I think smash discussion is important to the character.
And the community of a character is a good comunity!(lucarios and peachs and all them)
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2008
- Messages
- 7,187
Hai, I'm here to idk
Steam
Smash Hero
o hey yoshi boards : 3
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
Lolwups
B.A.M.
Smash Lord
What MK knows the Yoshi MU? Just curious. I want to see how its played in that regard.
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
You mean what yoshi knows the MK MU?
Otherwise, you may want to check the MK boards.
Otherwise, you may want to check the MK boards.
B.A.M.
Smash Lord
NO im asking this because i want to know the Yoshi Boards opinion on the matter. I see Delta Cod, Polt, and others doing mad work with Yoshi vs MKs. And yet from Delta Cod's post, it seems like he absolutely hates the character. I want to know what MK placed that revelation in his head. I would love to see videos of it.
I dont see Yoshi getting gimped, he seems to have options that beat out a ton of MKs ground options, Eggs make MK approach, Yoshi can battle MK in the air it seems. I just dont see what the major flaw is in Yoshi's game vs MK. I dont see a reason he needs to worry about nado. I really want to get better at the character myself, and I guess as a Sonic main who trains with Tyrant and Mike quite a bit, I feel like Yoshi has answers to things sonic wish he did and then some.
I hope no Yoshi main is offended; im not suggesting you guys are wrong in any way. I just want to why (besides Delta's earlier post) or a video of a MK competent in the match up in their eyes.
I dont see Yoshi getting gimped, he seems to have options that beat out a ton of MKs ground options, Eggs make MK approach, Yoshi can battle MK in the air it seems. I just dont see what the major flaw is in Yoshi's game vs MK. I dont see a reason he needs to worry about nado. I really want to get better at the character myself, and I guess as a Sonic main who trains with Tyrant and Mike quite a bit, I feel like Yoshi has answers to things sonic wish he did and then some.
I hope no Yoshi main is offended; im not suggesting you guys are wrong in any way. I just want to why (besides Delta's earlier post) or a video of a MK competent in the match up in their eyes.
Understand that almost all of these options aren't reliable to breaking nado. Egg Roll, Grab, and Usmash break nado the easiest, but at the same time, it's like playing RPS. Nado at different placements in relation to Yoshi standing can beat all of them.
Delta hates MK cause of the better players (that understand how the MU is played) he goes against (I believe Nairo, Orion, PWii). Probably wrong on the players, but Yoshi definitely has trouble comabting an MK that's smart in how he's positioning himself vs Yoshi.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
A large portion of the MKs in the Tristate area do. Doom, RizMF, Ikon (somewhat), Gunblade, Pwii, Nairo(somewhat), Pierce (doesn't play it gay enough but certainly understands the MU), and more.
It was Gunblade. The set wasn't recorded, but I have never been more pissed off and frustrated during and after a set in my life. I have never felt so optionless before, never so hopeless during a Brawl set, even during some of our other bad MUs (like Lucario).
They don't get gimped, but against an MK that knows what they're doing, they do take MASSIVE damage just trying to recover. I may not die, but I've probably lost 1/3 of my stock in damage to edge guarding.
The thing that is cool about the MU at a basic level is that Yoshi actually does have a tool for everything. He has an option that can outright beat one of MK's options. The problem arises from the fact that MK has 16 other options to beat that. It's like RPS, except if we throw Rock, MK can throw out Paper, and a ton of other made up options that **** Rock. But if we happen to be godly and pick out the right option, sometimes we win. What's even worse is that while we might make the read against MK and throw Rock and he throws Scissors, he might be able to manipulate the spacing on the fly to make it a draw.
As an in game example, let's use Tornado vs. Yoshi. We have some options against it. Usmash, Eggs, Pivot Grab, Egg Roll, etc. But reliably, we really only have three: Usmash, Pivot Grab, and Shield. Say MK nados at us. We go for the pivot grab. Pivot Grab beats nado near the ground. BUT WAIT, MK JUST RAISED IT ABOVE THE GROUND and now we got nado'd and are in the air against Nado, which is awful since the tools for beating it from above require the MK to space Nado poorly. Say we pick the safest option against Nado and shield. Oh well, MK pulls back and we get no punish, and probably even lost a bit of stage since MKs are good at landing from Tornado with no lag.
It's an incredibly frustrating MU, and the RPS game involving JUST TORNADO is awful. Throw in all of MKs other tricks, and there's no hope.
I don't really have any videos of me fighting a competent MK in the MU as I rarely get to play on streams/recording setups. All I have is my word, but if you want, you can ask Gunblade about last time we played the MU in tournament and my reaction. Or you can ask a large portion of the people I consistently play with about how I leave a friendly setup if someone goes MK against me. It's just something I never want to put up with. You see us doing work against MKs that don't really know what they're doing. When they do, it's usually not recorded.
Also, no offense taken. You're not making any assertions like the MK boards did when we went for MU discussion. They told us we were wrong about it not being even.
B.A.M.
Smash Lord
@ scatz: doesnt everyone have a hard time vs smart positioning? thats just a good player being good imo. Is there particularly strong tactics that are hard for Yoshi to punish?
It seems that Yoshi chillin far OR at MKs dash shield range could give MK a ton of trouble. Doesnt DJ uair and Nair beat it cleanly? And from what Ive seen, Nado dont seem to bother a yoshi when they use proper spacing. Maybe I just dont see what you guys are talking about. Is there any video that you could recommend to me?
EDIT: Just saw your post Delta. Im going to read it now. Thanks for posting though.
@ Delta: Would you say nado and its variants ( I know exactly what you are talking about Delta; Nado does that to Sonic as well, fortunately thanks to our myriad of options ive found one that works for virtually all nados.) what pose the most problem? Is reverse usmash good vs different types of nados? I know reverse utilt for D3 is amazing compared to regular utilt when dealing with nado. Also, in regards to the recovery, do you think CG>usmash + whatever eggs balances out the recovery issue? And lastly, from my frame of thinking, pivot grab beats out MK ground/dash options and some of his air options. Is that a proper assertion or no? I know im asking a lot; i just really want to pick up Yoshi and i wanted to know what my thought process needs to be in this MU. Right now i feel that his tilt game + pivot grab is really strong vs MK, and I wonder how a top Yoshi like yourself views the MU as a whole. And youre right lol, i cant find a single vid with a MK knowing the MU as you say. I wish there was one lol; it make things much simpler. Thanks again for responding!
It seems that Yoshi chillin far OR at MKs dash shield range could give MK a ton of trouble. Doesnt DJ uair and Nair beat it cleanly? And from what Ive seen, Nado dont seem to bother a yoshi when they use proper spacing. Maybe I just dont see what you guys are talking about. Is there any video that you could recommend to me?
EDIT: Just saw your post Delta. Im going to read it now. Thanks for posting though.
@ Delta: Would you say nado and its variants ( I know exactly what you are talking about Delta; Nado does that to Sonic as well, fortunately thanks to our myriad of options ive found one that works for virtually all nados.) what pose the most problem? Is reverse usmash good vs different types of nados? I know reverse utilt for D3 is amazing compared to regular utilt when dealing with nado. Also, in regards to the recovery, do you think CG>usmash + whatever eggs balances out the recovery issue? And lastly, from my frame of thinking, pivot grab beats out MK ground/dash options and some of his air options. Is that a proper assertion or no? I know im asking a lot; i just really want to pick up Yoshi and i wanted to know what my thought process needs to be in this MU. Right now i feel that his tilt game + pivot grab is really strong vs MK, and I wonder how a top Yoshi like yourself views the MU as a whole. And youre right lol, i cant find a single vid with a MK knowing the MU as you say. I wish there was one lol; it make things much simpler. Thanks again for responding!
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
Sexy Yaz is a decently good MK, he's beaten Tyrant in a ditto before (although Tyrant is definitely better than him, no question), and he knows the Yoshi MU. I play him almost every tournament he goes too and before he went inactive due to having to concentrate on finding a place to live and a job, he was ranked #2 in my state. He'd prob be #3 now, but thats still really good.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
A MK playing patiently destroys Yoshi. The reason we usually win is because MKs try to do too much against us, and run into options that are easy to beat if they're playing patiently. All a MK has to do is sit around outside of our immediate dash grab range and he can punish any move we make. At this spacing, Nado is difficult to react to with a proper option outside of shielding. At this spacing, if we throw out a pivot grab, we whiff and probably eat a dash attack > follow ups or a grab > follow up.
Nado and its variants are a difficult thing to deal with alone, but the largest problem with MK is just dealing with his crushing amount of options. Nado happens to be one of them. If I had to name the biggest problem, it would be MK's options at neutral. But that's the issue with every character vs. MK, pretty much.
Reverse Usmash is decent against Nado, but the problem is that MK can just see us run away and pull back at no cost to himself, not to mention that reverse Usmash doesn't have a terribly large amount of horizontal range so the spacing would be tight, considering MK's movement options with nado. If MK pulls away, he just resets the situation, and we can't run forever. Nado just has too many options in general to account for.
Pivot Grab may be strong against MK's ground game, but only if he commits. To beat our game, MK simply has to play patient, safe, and never commit. And then we can never do a thing. Sometimes I rarely land a grab. Nothing really makes up for the recovery damage we take. We have to fight to death just for a simple hit. I've outplayed MKs that don't know what they're doing by a good margin and still had the game go close because even normal MK bull**** can be stupid against us. It's all really dumb.
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
Does reverse Usmash have less horizontal range than regular usmash??
Cause you can usmash through most platforms.
That's pretty good range IMO.
Cause you can usmash through most platforms.
That's pretty good range IMO.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Platforms would be vertical range.
And while Usmash does have some good range on it, it's not particularly difficult to avoid a reverse Usmash in nado. In fact, I usually see MK run away in nado if I start to run.
And while Usmash does have some good range on it, it's not particularly difficult to avoid a reverse Usmash in nado. In fact, I usually see MK run away in nado if I start to run.
Doing a reverse Usmash isn't too feasible since MK can space it to have the move clank. That's the reason why Fsmash doesn't work like it should. Most moves that can beat nado are crushed by a well spaced one.
@BAM: Delta already addressed everything I was going to say. Sry for taking so long to respond.
@BAM: Delta already addressed everything I was going to say. Sry for taking so long to respond.
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
in my defense, i AM homeschooled.
ok that all makes more sense when I'm aware of my horizontal/vertical mistake:3
Depster
Smash Champion
You can approach with a reverse Usmash. I forgot how, but I think you press jump, attack, and diagonally up and away from the direction you run.
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
So did I find something else that was unknown or did we all know yoshi has a RAR with DJ egg lay?
Also I've found good use of my crawling on the ledge, just some kinks to work out and videos to be made.
Also I've found good use of my crawling on the ledge, just some kinks to work out and videos to be made.
Depster
Smash Champion
What's RAR?
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
Gosh... Abbrevations get tough.
Reversed Aerial Reversal iirc.
I think fox has one too.
Basicly you DJ left, and at the right time egg lay to the right, and it cancels your momentum and sends you to the right a good ways.
Reversed Aerial Reversal iirc.
I think fox has one too.
Basicly you DJ left, and at the right time egg lay to the right, and it cancels your momentum and sends you to the right a good ways.
Depster
Smash Champion
Why did they make a new name for b-reversals?
F-Tier Player
Smash Ace
Where's Poltergust? I haven't seen him around anymore.
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
Polts been busy moving I believe.
It's different than B reversals i think...
Like you have a certain amount of frames to do the b-reversal in your double jump.
Idk I think it's just a extension of a b-reversal
edit: maybe I should research my crap....
Just a b-reversal, by definition.
I'm not sure why this is the AT I pulled out of my brain and asscociated here.
I'm getting back to my ledge crawling.
It's different than B reversals i think...
Like you have a certain amount of frames to do the b-reversal in your double jump.
Idk I think it's just a extension of a b-reversal
edit: maybe I should research my crap....
so this is NOT an RAR.
Just a b-reversal, by definition.
I'm not sure why this is the AT I pulled out of my brain and asscociated here.
I'm getting back to my ledge crawling.