Yet Another Bowser Matchup Thread|Week 3: Diddy/Falco

[Vex Kasrani]

Using your Klaw is absolutely awesome though. It puts pressure on DDD and infinite jumping makes a pretty cool approach. Plus, with it, shielding becomes useless. If he tried to dodge, then you can use a tilt or something.

And of course, FIRE!

If DDD spot dodges, just jump away if your klaw jumping lol. He won't be able to shield grab you at all. I wrecked Atomsk's DDD by doing this, it was a friendly, but regardless it works. Considering I mained DDD for such a long time I know DDD really doesn't have that much to do against klaw jumping except running away and spamming waddles or bairing, but if hes bairing then he's off the ground and at a disadvantage.

 

[Flayl]

Yes I've learned about d3's blind spots while playing him as a secondary.

 

[Dynamism?]

HAHAHA that first page is hilarious!

Nice thread Mmac, you **** man! The chart on the OP is amazing =D

 

[smasher?o.0]

how can MK be so high with bowser?
if u have a noob mk vs a noob bowser who will lose?
if u have a pro mk vs pro bowser who might get 3-stocked?
IMO its at least a 30:70

 

[Flayl]

how can MK be so high with bowser?
if u have a noob mk vs a noob bowser who will lose?
if u have a pro mk vs pro bowser who might get 3-stocked?
IMO its at least a 30:70

****, now that this guy has presented these irrefutable arguments backed with plenty of experience and results, I guess we have no choice but to put it as 70:30 for MK.

Thank the heavens people like you post in matchup threads.

 

[Atomsk_92]

If DDD spot dodges, just jump away if your klaw jumping lol. He won't be able to shield grab you at all. I wrecked Atomsk's DDD by doing this, it was a friendly, but regardless it works. Considering I mained DDD for such a long time I know DDD really doesn't have that much to do against klaw jumping except running away and spamming waddles or bairing, but if hes bairing then he's off the ground and at a disadvantage.

you like to get dair'd 5 times in a row by toon link though XD

 

[Vex Kasrani]

you like to get dair'd 5 times in a row by toon link though XD

Lol even thou that was a MM I honestly didn't care because I wanted to play melee with magus.

Also, I'm honestly starting to think Bowser vs Dedede is neutral. I'm MM'ing M2k's Dedede at the next PA biweekly with no standing infinites or small step chaingrabbing.

 

[Flayl]

Good luck then. Don't forget to discuss the results with us.

 

[Max Ketchum]

Lol even thou that was a MM I honestly didn't care because I wanted to play melee with magus.

Johns johns johns! XD

 

[NickRiddle]

D3 beats Bowser on the stage, Bowser beats D3 off the stage. My D3 training partner showed me how easy it is to edgeguard him...Basically, Klaw is your best friend, since when you suplex him, it doesn't give D3 his jumps back...So, knock him off, try to force him to use his jumps, and Klaw his Up-B.

Since D3 has to go a certain height above the stage before he can cancel and grab the edge, even a normal grab works if you get him in this situation. Catch his rising Up-B, pummel, d-throw or let him struggle out of it. If you see him trying to land, either Klaw him, or sheild the hits, and he's laggy enough for almost any attack you have. (I saw him escape a forward-smash before)

 

[MrEh]

If DDD spot dodges, just jump away if your klaw jumping lol. He won't be able to shield grab you at all. I wrecked Atomsk's DDD by doing this, it was a friendly, but regardless it works. Considering I mained DDD for such a long time I know DDD really doesn't have that much to do against klaw jumping except running away and spamming waddles or bairing, but if hes bairing then he's off the ground and at a disadvantage.

I'd take the defensive Bair DDD versus the defensive shieldgrabbing DDD any day.

At least Bowser has more options against the Bair. (Humongous foot versus FIRE!)

 

[TexanBull58]

honestly i saw Bowser not just because i main him, but FIRE seems to work very well against DDD, and of course the infinitie jump is a great unorthodox way to throw the oppoent off, definitly bowser by 60:40 and dont even count in the chain grabs, cuz bowser has his own chain grab to DDD as well, so those pretty much cancel, and i say Bowser has the upper hand

 

[itsthebigfoot]

played a few games against a good gdubs

upb oos ***** all of his aerials, it hits him out of the turtle (you take about 2% but it cancels your lag, puts him in the air, and gives him 10%) , so if your shield is ever hit, upb then and there. upb makes his bair dair and fair useless. he will start to probe your shield with nairs, and i haven't found anything for that yet, but i will, and you'll be the first to know (probably ftilt through of something like that) don't save yourupb, it is too useful at making his game completely unsafe to save.

also, if he tries a ground approach (running grab probably) his ground range is bad enough/the grab is laggy enough that you can fsmash to dodge the hit with the drawback, and the fsmash will land (VERY GOOD FOR YOU)

save your sideb as it kills very early.

also, bowser bomb trades with his usmash, so if you think you can survive or want to kill each other simultaneously, go for it

didn't try any grab release tricks

 

[Vex Kasrani]

didn't try any grab release tricks

Why, if you grab gnw you might as well.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

I always either upb'd or sideb'd for damage or kills whenever icould've normally grabbed, i think i got two grabs, and immediately dthrowed due to my dk habits, as well as other john type statements on why i did not grab release

 

[Vex Kasrani]

honestly i saw Bowser not just because i main him, but FIRE seems to work very well against DDD, and of course the infinitie jump is a great unorthodox way to throw the oppoent off, definitly bowser by 60:40 and dont even count in the chain grabs, cuz bowser has his own chain grab to DDD as well, so those pretty much cancel, and i say Bowser has the upper hand

DDD's chaingrab is much easier to consistently do because he has much better grab range and it takes almost no practice to do. Not to mention he can finish it off with a dtilt, but we can finish our chaingrab with overb :D

 

[Vyse]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=181638
We're discussing Bowser right now as well.
lol.

Come on over.

 

[Mmac]

Do we have a General Agreed Ratio on Dedede yet on both Infnite and Non Infinite?

 

[Bowser King]

I say infinite: 80-20
Non-Infinite: 70-30 or 65-35

Agreed?

-Bowser King

 

[Flayl]

Infinite: 80-20, No infinite: 65-35

 

[JST]

Infinite: 80-20, No infinite: 65-35

This sounds good. I agree.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Honestly I don't agree, Infinite: 10-90 / No Infinite: 40-60

 

[MrEh]

The matchup seems like a 40-60 without the infinite.

The matchup is LOL with the infinite.

 

[Flayl]

We can all agree it's heavy disadvantage with the infinite and disadvantage without (70:30 being the threshold), honestly that's all that really matters, numbers are just icing on the cake.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

ok, for gdubs i think its even, not really sure though, gotta mm one.

upb oos is just too **** good

 

[Snowstalker]

I think it's time to move on.

 

[MrEh]

ok, for gdubs i think its even, not really sure though, gotta mm one.

upb oos is just too **** good

Properly spaced Turtles are hard to punish with the Fortress though.


Thankfully grab releases work. Dtilt grab release hurts, especially on Mr. Turtle Spam.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

Properly spaced Turtles are hard to punish with the Fortress though.


Thankfully grab releases work. Dtilt grab release hurts, especially on Mr. Turtle Spam.

tilt your shield low so it doesn't get poked, then sideb for those turtles

he does lose the key to bowsers fortress

 

[Neb]

Can't G&W just upb out of Bowser's grab release game?
I ask because he can against Marth, and I doubt Bowser
is that fast, or has that much range/mobility.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

bowser's grab release breakout lag is about twice as fast as most characters, its why he has so many grab tricks against everyone except dk (fox and wolf too if the bowser can't time ground breaks)

bowsers grab release game is definitely quicker than marths

 

[A2ZOMG]

ok, for gdubs i think its even, not really sure though, gotta mm one.

upb oos is just too **** good

Every Bowser I play gets ***** in the butt in this matchup. Even? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Bowser has zero good answers to B-air except Up-B out of shield if he spaces it horribly (and btw, you're not punishing him for B-airing if he spaces it right). N-air and U-air stall ***** him forever, and so does Up-B. He's tall, so he's easy to F-air or Chef, and his recovery is eaten alive by D-air and F-airs which can rack on 60% a round or KO Bowser any time he goes off stage.

If the G&W plays right, Bowser literally can't touch the ground again once he takes a hit especially on Battlefield. N-air ***** him even if he tries to air dodge back to the ground. None of his attacks are good for hitting below him, and his best one for doing that, the Down B has horrible ending lag.

I'd say it's 7/3 at least in favor of G&W.

 

[Neb]

I like Bowser, but he needs a secondary for this match-up.
Just because a character has a move against bair, doesn't
mean the match is automatically even.

7/3, at least.
Also, the instant you get Bowser off stage, thats like guaranteed stock.
G&W gets most of his KO's off stage wings, and since Bowser's recovery
is so poor...well, you know.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I just played Koskinator's Bowser and beat him with G&W. And he's like waaaaay better than you or me, and his Bowser is ****.

Like seriously, G&W vs Bowser is not close to even at all lol.

 

[Mmac]

Kosk uses Bowser now? Man he's just changing mains left and right...

So I'm getting 40/60 Dedede (Non Infinite), 20/80 Dedede (Infinite, I don't think it's that impossible to warrant 10/90), and 30/70 Game & Watch (Or 35/65...). everyone agree on these ratios?

Diddy must be sad, he got completely discarded this week

Edit: Maybe I should give control of the thread to Vex or something, due to me not knowing Bowser in general, but I don't want the thread to die like the other ones.....

 

[Vex Kasrani]

And he's like waaaaay better than you or me

What a dumb statement considering you haven't played most if any of us and we haven't played this guy. Also I don't think the matchup is that bad, although I'm very good at it, my Bowser goes practically even with Velocity's GnW. I'd say at worst its 35-65 and at best 40-60, its completely stage dependent.

 

[Neb]

What a dumb statement considering you haven't played most if any of us and we haven't played this guy. Also I don't think the matchup is that bad, although I'm very good at it, my Bowser goes practically even with Velocity's GnW. I'd say at worst its 35-65 and at best 40-60, its completely stage dependent.

What stages benefit Bowser in this match-up?

 

[Flayl]

Now I remember A2ZOMG, he's the G&W that lost to Koskinator's Ganon.

I certainly wouldn't say that this mathcup is even, at all, but 70:30 implies this is Bowser's worst non-infinite matchup. Is it (genuine question)?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I heard Sliq beat NoJ's Gdubs

/discussion

 

[Neb]

I heard this, I heard that, -_-. You guys aren't stating the case, your just flaunting
individual experience. Aside from fortress beating bair, you haven't said anything.
So, 7/3.

 

[Flayl]

Maybe if you weren't so impatient you'd get answers. It's not like this forum is teeming with activity.