Meta Wry Mustache Man: Dominating Strategies Discussion

[TheReflexWonder]

I'm still leaning towards the regular bike, but I'd like to see Speeding Bike in action to change my mind.

Check the video thread; I spent a tournament exclusively using Speeding Bike this past weekend.

 

[Oracle]

This is why you use speeding bike https://gfycat.com/ColorlessRadiantBooby

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Yeah, the Speeding Bike has obscene amounts of base knockback, which means it gets one of the biggest boosts from Rage, comparable to Luma U-Air/D-Air.

 

[moofpi]

Yeah, the Speeding Bike has obscene amounts of base knockback, which means it gets one of the biggest boosts from Rage, comparable to Luma U-Air/D-Air.

Do you usually just missile through or is it worth the time/risk to try to get the rising wheelie or the front tire slam with speed bike? If it scales like you say it does, that sounds very useful.

 

[Rakurai]

The wheelie slam on the speeding bike is much weaker then the standard bike, and doing a wheelie after hitting your opponent almost guarantees that you'll go flying off-stage and put yourself in a bad position if you don't end up KOing yourself instead.

That said, it's better to just jump off of the bike and go for an aerial follow-up.

 

[moofpi]

Wario is a very small and very heavy character. Mewtwo is a very big and very light character. Wario is faster than Mewtwo, but has better kill moves and generally more damaging attacks. Mewtwo is floaty and awkward to move whereas Wario is nimble and has great air movement.

Based on initial impressions, I'd say Wario walks all over Mewtwo.

Not to mention he eats shadow balls for breakfast.

Okay on the speeding bike, I just remember hearing that the heavy bike was the one with the weaker slam (ironically) so I thought maybe the speed bike had a stronger but riskier slam. Also do you guys ever try to save the speed bike? Like the catching the bike on the ledge and eating it trick (which I can't ever do)? I usually launch it forward and B-reverse or side B so that it turns back at the ledge.

Last question. Do none of you guys like heavy bike? I think it is a godsend and is my go-to. Speed bike has a lot of use for tech chases, roll spammers, recovery, and escape. But I love heavy bike for it's weird horizontal physics that carry you with the bike once you've jumped off and it also slings you, a very unconventional recovery. Not to mention the obvious burying properties that lead into all of Wario's wonderful KO moves. It having such an absurd amount of HP makes it a wonderful shield and a powerful projectile. If you bury them and have enough time to throw the bike up and let it bounce it can do massive damage.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Dismantling the speeding bike from the ledge makes it slide into the middle of the stage. Even ignoring the weaker HP you can't throw it to cover get up options and I don't think it's worth eating either after taking a stock since they'll spawn right above you.

 

[Rakurai]

I like the heavy bike for its ease of use in edgeguarding and as a projectile shield, but I value the speeding bike's added mobility and combo potential too much to use it often.

 

[DavemanCozy]

I've gotten used to the regular bike myself. I've been finding turning the bike and skidding to be particularly useful to apply shield pressure while turning away from the opponent quickly, and I also like the knockback.

I will give the speeding bike a try, the footstool jab reset is nasty and that KO offstage was sick. The distance it covers is also very good.

 

[Oracle]

Speeding bike is imo pretty clearly the best one, but default bike has a lot of tricks so i wouldnt consider it useless, and heavy bike looks like it could have relevance in certain mus where you want to truck through projectiles/weak hits or call rolls. Only custom I am sad to not see on the list is the high up b, seems like it could be a big help to his recovery

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Speeding bike is imo pretty clearly the best one, but default bike has a lot of tricks so i wouldnt consider it useless, and heavy bike looks like it could have relevance in certain mus where you want to truck through projectiles/weak hits or call rolls. Only custom I am sad to not see on the list is the high up b, seems like it could be a big help to his recovery

The more I think about it, the more Up-B3 seems like it's worthwhile. More ballsy edgeguards, less requirement to use Bike to recover, faster movement...

 

[Rakurai]

I've noticed that for some reason, the Heavy Bike bounces three times when smash thrown downwards and covers about half the length of Final Destination before it comes to a stop. The standard bike only bounces twice, while the speeding bike just explodes immediately.

Could work as a decent way of approaching if you can get the bike out, since the bike's massive hitbox shields from projectiles and threatens people who try to attack.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I've noticed that for some reason, the Heavy Bike bounces three times when smash thrown downwards and covers about half the length of Final Destination before it comes to a stop. The standard bike only bounces twice, while the speeding bike just explodes immediately.

Could work as a decent way of approaching if you can get the bike out, since the bike's massive hitbox shields from projectiles and threatens people who try to attack.

The thrown Bike is fairly easy to clank with, and that clank stops all of its horizontal movement. That said, Wario throws the bike faster than in Brawl; it has its uses.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, throwing the normal Bike down hard while facing one direction makes it bounce once, while doing the same facing the other direction makes it bounce twice.

 

[PK Gaming]

The theme song for every custom Wario

 

[TheReflexWonder]

The theme song for every custom Wario

I'll do you one better.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Double-post, but, whatever (I AM THE SENATE). I made this post on another subforum, but you guys can benefit, too--

Something I found last night while experimenting with Wario's weird ability to be able to turn his Bike around at will (unfortunately, the MASTER OF MAGNET powers didn't work out as useful).

In Brawl, whenever you press a button to jump off the Bike, you no longer have a hitbox on you and are completely vulnerable until the animation is over. In Smash 4, this animation is the same, but you still have full hitbox power for the fifteen frames before Wario is clearly off the Bike.

Combined with the fact that there is a lingering hitbox on the Bike after you jump off, this is safer than I ever previously thought possible. On top of being able to instantly create second hitboxes with the wheelie or skidding turnaround, Gheb was right--This move is mega-dumb.

Also, when you're getting off the Bike, Wario cannot crash into the side of the stage; instead, the Bike just floats next to it. This means that running off the ledge, doing Forward-B, and immediately jumping off creates a ~15-frame strong stage spiking hit immediately above the ledge that synergizes well with Waft and divebomb D-Air (since pulling out the Bike takes something like 20 frames). Yet another powerful edgeguard option for this guy, and this one's disjointed. I didn't test a bunch of characters because it's hard to create that scenario with one person playing two characters, but it seems to beat Pac-Man and Captain Falcon's Up-Bs, at least. I'll make a more comprehensive list in the future.

 

[moofpi]

Double-post, but, whatever (I AM THE SENATE). I made this post on another subforum, but you guys can benefit, too--

That bike info is very interesting, but you got the like for (I AM THE SENATE), I spat my milk out reading it.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

That bike info is very interesting, but you got the like for (I AM THE SENATE), I spat my milk out reading it.

You get a like for drinking milk. That's the beverage of champions.

 

[Sari]

Any tips on dealing with Robin? I haven't really fought Robin as Wario although I'm going to a tournament next week and one of the more better players entering mains him. I'm worried I'll fight him and have no idea how to properly approach him.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

You can eat every level of Thunder except the max charge, as well as Arcfire as long as it hasn't stopped moving forward yet.

U-Air is enormous and walls vertical approaches well; watch out for it.

 

[DavemanCozy]

I was doing some Mega Man vs Wario matches, what bike would you think is better? I like that the regular bike, can go through more projectiles. It can go through his pea shooter when you ditch it and doesn't get destroyed by his projectiles easily. But the speeding bike leads to more follow ups.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Regular bike vs Mega Man for me since it powers through nearly all his moves. Just gotta watch out for Metal Blade.

Been trying out Rose Waft lately. I think this is probably the best of the waft customs. Kinda hard to go back without that range and damage.

 

[Rakurai]

A lot of people don't seem to realize that you need to button mash to remove the flower from the Rose Waft and avoid taking an extra 20%+ damage from it.

 

[Sari]

What's more useful for getting out of combos: N-air, corkscrew, or just air dodging?

 

[Spinosaurus]

What's more useful for getting out of combos: N-air, corkscrew, or just air dodging?

You mean like Mario's up tilt combos? Corkscrew.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Airdodge is fastest (I think airdodges start on Frame 2 in Smash 4), but it will likely leave you with significant landing lag if you're doing it near the ground.

Second fastest would be Turbo Waft, which hits on Frame 3 (for not-full version) or super armor on Frame 3 (for full version). It's like a bigger, stronger Luigi N-Air.

N-Air hits on Frame 4 but has ten frames where there is no hitbox, so that can be pretty risky to do in that scenario. I wouldn't rely on it.

Regular and Rose Wafts are like Turbo Waft, but Frame 5 instead.

Corkscrew is Frame 6; generally not the best combo-breaking tool.

 

[Ridel]

So what's your opinions on D-Throw? I don't really have friends who can competently DI yet so I'm usually always able to get the tech chase or sour-spot F-Air reset. I'm not sure how good it is against people who can DI it correctly.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

It's often my preferred throw. 8% is solid damage, and it lets you follow up with decent pressure even if they tech reliably.

They don't have any good options to do more than simply get back to neutral in a best-case scenario; for most characters, they spend a jump to get out of tumble (and so they end up giving you lots of stage and above without a double-jump), they tech and potentially leave themselves at your mercy via Bike ride or Dash Attack, or they use an aerial and leave themselves open in much the same way that teching in place would.

 

[Ridel]

They don't have any good options to do more than simply get back to neutral in a best-case scenario; for most characters, they spend a jump to get out of tumble

Is there any reliable way to punish there second jump or should I just drop down a take neutral?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Is there any reliable way to punish there second jump or should I just drop down a take neutral?

Not really, but without a double-jump, it should be significantly easier than normal to punish their landing or pressure them to the ledge.

 

[Oracle]

I've been trying out using the regular bike, its got lots of weird, tricky uses which is cool. Recently i figured out vs some fastfaller characters if you get a low% bite, you can actually combo into a boost grab (dash attack cancel grab). Didn't do much testing but it was working pretty consistently vs falcon; if he di'ed up i just got sh fair instead.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Wario can fastfall an immediate D-Air from the ledge and buffer his mid-air jump afterward without dying on Battlefield, Kongo Jungle 64, Lylat Cruise (only when that edge is not angled downward), Halberd, Castle Siege (1st transformation: right side only, 3rd transformation: all sides, even when angled downward), Town and City, Duck Hunt, and Wuhu Island. All other regularly legal stages (including ALL Omega stages) require you to wait a couple frames into the D-Air start-up before fastfalling.

This is potentially useful for catching people recovering from below. Passing through opponents while fastfalling with D-Air will often cause a fairly strong spike, because there are two hitboxes on his head for the multihits: One higher up that sucks people down and one below that sucks people upward. If you steer sideways while hitting them, or if you trade hits, this can be a death sentence in some cases. Even outside of that, you can hit very low recoveries with the last hit of D-Air and get the easy KO in a way that is difficult to see coming, since Wario's fastfall is quite fast.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Wario can fastfall an immediate D-Air from the ledge and buffer his mid-air jump afterward without dying on Battlefield, Kongo Jungle 64, Lylat Cruise (only when that edge is not angled downward), Halberd, Castle Siege (1st transformation: right side only, 3rd transformation: all sides, even when angled downward), Town and City, Duck Hunt, and Wuhu Island. All other regularly legal stages (including ALL Omega stages) require you to wait a couple frames into the D-Air start-up before fastfalling.

This is potentially useful for catching people recovering from below. Passing through opponents while fastfalling with D-Air will often cause a fairly strong spike, because there are two hitboxes on his head for the multihits: One higher up that sucks people down and one below that sucks people upward. If you steer sideways while hitting them, or if you trade hits, this can be a death sentence in some cases. Even outside of that, you can hit very low recoveries with the last hit of D-Air and get the easy KO in a way that is difficult to see coming, since Wario's fastfall is quite fast.

I played a Diddy last week who traded with my dair with uair, he got sent down offstage because he only got hit with the first Dair hit. Now I know what happened.

Are the two hitboxes present on all of the weaker Dair hits?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Are the two hitboxes present on all of the weaker Dair hits?

They are, yeah. The move hits every other frame six times before you get the final hit.

 

[Roots]

What do you guys think of his d-tilt?
I always tend to ignore it for some reason. It is quick though but the range is so short and people can usually shield after the first one

 

[Sari]

What do you guys think of his d-tilt?
I always tend to ignore it for some reason. It is quick though but the range is so short and people can usually shield after the first one

I find it useful for stopping characters who tend to grab while dashing like C. Falcon. Even if the d-tilt doesn't hit them, you can keep using it to push shielders back slightly, preventing them from grabbing you. If it does hit them it can usually lead into a grab at low %'s.

 

[Oracle]

dtilt is super good i use it for everything

also I pulled this off in for glory not sure if it's something you could plan for consistently but one of the only ways i've gotten to use the bike's wheelie slam in singles is to outprioritize an attack from your opponent with the wheelie, then use the wheelie slam on them while they're in the clanking animation. It was only working when my opponents were throwing out smashes but idk just figured I'd share

 

[Zionaze]

You can eat every level of Thunder except the max charge.

I'm fairly certain you can eat Thoron.

 

[Ridel]

Yeah I can confirm you can eat Thoron as well.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Do you have to be in a certain position or distance from Robin? I tried it in Training Mode a few times and just got hit.