Meta Wry Mustache Man: Dominating Strategies Discussion

[Ssbm_Jag]

So I was labbing something out on Duck Hunt (aka the stage everyone bans against me) and realized Wario's U-throw provides surprisingly decent Rising Waft tech chase potential when Wario is standing under the tall tree. Basically, the opponent at relevant KO percents (75%-w/e) will sometimes have to tech on one of the tree branches. As expected, falling speed and gravity play a significant role in who has to tech and when. For reference, 93-94% is when (FS:#24-27; Gravity:#26-29) without DI must tech the top branch. One issue with specifically is that he can jump out of u-throw hitstun rather early, so the % typically needs to be precise, but in a real match when you have no other options other than throw them off stage with a throw, I'd say U-throw under the tree doesn't sound like a bad option. Many opponents might be lazy and just tech the platform because they don't want to use their jump or that they don't expect a berserk Wario to come flying at them. If they end up landing on the branch for w/e reason, Rising Waft from a grounded position can hit as high as the 4th highest branch. If you want to tech chase rising waft, I'd suggest wafting right when you see them land on branch. One random thing to be noted is that if you max waft from the highest branch you'll SD, but the lower ones are safe. Wario can full hop+double jump+sweetspot max waft an opponent as high as the 4th highest branch.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Good thinking. May be worth testing the T&C platforms in a similar capacity.

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

Stupidly long post condensed into 4 spoilers. Ideas that came across my mind over the past month or so. The full-hop d-air in neutral thing is something I know other Wario mains wonder about, and this is my input on the idea.

Spoiler: Rising Waft vs. Weight/Falling Speed

I decided to test how much of a difference falling u-air into full hop buffered rising waft makes when done to tall characters across different weight and falling speeds combinations. Here's the star KO percents of rageless rising waft with no DI. I decided to look into this because I KO'd my friend playing Rosa super early with falling u-air->rising waft.

Featherweight Floaty: Rosalina (FS:#56/58 characters; W:#52): 53%
Featherweight Mid-faller: Mewtwo (FS:# 31-35; W:#54): 54%
Relatively high W+FS: Cloud (FS:#14-15; W:#17) 68%
Heavyweight Floaty: Samus (FS:#49-50; W:#6-7) 69%
Heavyweight Semi-floaty: Bowser (FS:#42; W:#1) 77%

These values might be off by 1 or 2%. Point is, falling u-air destroys characters like Mewtwo and Rosalina and should be highly considered when entering these MU due to u-air being easy to land on these giraffes.

Spoiler: Autocancel Sourspot N-air on Shield Revisited

I decided to revisit Wario's autocancel windows, specifically auto-cancel n-air. The reason being that I feel AC windows can tell you a lot about how a move is supposed to be used. I feel pretty certain I know why Wario's n-air autocancels on frame 44>. If you full hop nair and fast fall at the apex, you'll hit the opponent, but n-air won't autocancel. If you were to full hop nair off a mid-level platform, again fast falling at the apex of the hop, the move would autocancel, but not hit the opponent. If you full hop f-air from ground level (IASA 38), you're allowed to buffer a double jump slightly below platform height, which is just the right height for Wario to double jump with a n-air, fast fall it immediately at the apex of his double jump, hit an opponent (although they have to be moderately tall) and have the move autocancel. I thought full hop f-air->double jump->fast fall nair was as close as I could possibly get to landing on exactly frame 44, but I was wrong. This method does not allow Wario to hit Luigi. However, on a stage like Battlefield, short hop fast fall n-air from the top platform can hit Luigi and can autocancel, leading me to think this is exactly frame 44 Wario is landing on. I might just be overthinking this, and maybe they specifically made the AC window at 44> just because if it was any earlier autocancel n-air would be broken on shield (right now it's only -5), and any later it might cause impractical gameplay. Now as for down-air AC-ing on 42> and not allowing an immediate fast fall autocancel on full hop, I have a theory and explain it late into point 3.

Spoiler: Down-Air in Neutral

Wario has very few tools against opponents at sub-30-ish percents that are safe in neutral that also encourage Wario obtain any true follow-up or tech chase. The moves he has are Chomp, N-air, U-air, and Dash attack. I don't include grab, because Wario has no true follow-ups and clearly Wario isn't built to get grabs straight from neutral. D-tilt doesn't give Wario any amazing frame advantage at low percents. As for F-air, it's ok for neutral considering it's safe (debatable) and good for conditioning, but to an extent I consider it gimmicky and therefore was not intentionally designed to be a part of Wario's neutral. Sure, opponents often shield after being hit by a full hop fair probably due to lack of a quick anti-air move+they see Wario seemingly trying to get a follow-up (even though he has none), so we often get free Chomps as a pseudo-follow-up. Although effective, it's by-definition gimmicky (outside of conditioning and a few other reasons) because any potential follow-up can get hard-countered by rolls or attacks at low-percents. F-air's true use imo is to create mid-late percent tech chases, not to be used consistently as low % offense. That being said, I'm not discouraging it's use entirely at low percents, because we surprisingly tend to get away with f-air a lot on opponents, and it can help us regain stage control with its speed and disjoint; however, f-air at low percents in many cases can actually put Wario at a disadvantage frame-wise or position-wise (against heavy characters or those with good ground speed). Chomp creates tech chases as early as 0%. N-air's sourspot sends all characters into tumble at 0% (if they asdi down it can send them nowhere ). U-air combos into N-air, and Dash attack sends opponents into tumble at 0% as well (But I'll admit outside of punishing whiffs, dash attack isn't safe in neutral).

I'm going to lay out the pros and cons of d-air in neutral since the frame data/hitboxes seemingly suggests that it potentially could have a use in it.

Pros:

• Puts players into tumble around 10% allowing for early percent tech chases
• Hits every character in the game at standing height on full hop
• When buffered directly from full hop airdodge (IASA 33/53 frame full hop), d-air's frame 21 sweetspot connects 1 frame before landing and can remain decently safe when crossing-up in this manner (-16).

Cons:

• Seemingly unsafe start-up as an approach/requires heavy anticipation of opponent doing nothing or attempting dash grab
• Full hop fast fall autocancel d-air is arguably as safe on cross-up as short hop fast fall F-air (-18 when done perfectly) and short hop B-air (also -18 when perfect)...sort of/not always. The problem is that the late hits of full hop d-air don't connect on shield if the move is done on shield as they would on a confirmed hit (which sucks the opponent into a move), unless you're fighting a tall character. If they did, d-air would be about as safe as Wario's other aerials, and I believe this explains the 42> autocancel window. If Wario could fast fall any earlier, it would be too good on a spaced cross-up, so they limited it to -20 at best.
  
• The multi-hits of FH D-air don't always connect right even when they begin to hit the opponent.

Some opinions I have may be flawed, so I'm completely open to criticism or suggestion.

Spoiler: Potential Wheelie Crash Set-Up?

While I think platforms are the superior way to achieve a wheelie crash on an opponent, I believe ledge get-up attack might be another decent way to attempt this, simply because I recently achieved one this way. It puts opponents into tumble/tech situations at KO percents and guarantees that Wario has enough stage to pull this off. The opponent doesn't have to tech if they A-land or jump before hitting the ground, but with bad DI, being fast faller, simply not being aware, or seeing that Wario is no where near where they must tech, they may hit the ground. About a month ago, I tested to see if a late n-air at high percent into immediate bike->wheelie->wheelie crash could put the opponent into tumble and truly punish a tech roll away. It barely couldn't and was too hard to execute. Recently, I did achieve a wheelie crash on my friend who teched-in-place after being hit with a get-up attack, and then decided to roll away when he saw Wario in wheelie mode. He is a top player, not an new player, so I feel this might work on a lot of players. I think wheelie crash was designed to truly cover missed-tech+get-up roll away, which could always happen, but that's super situational. Is this method super gimmicky? Yes. As far as we know, there are few practical wheelie crash set-ups and this method is relatively safe to attempt on a successful get-up attack from ledge.