Wreck-It Bowser

[Rizen]

Oh weird. So if I have the lead and that happened in a tourney, the opponent could jump down and try to hit me out of it or be timed out? Not that it's reliable.

 

[Flayl]

Amazing you got that to happen outside of doubles. If I were the TO I'd take note of the stocks and % (I'd have to ask about Bowser's % or how long the players had been waiting) and start a new match with those.

But I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of TOs ruled that it was Snake's job to try and hit Bowser or else be disqualified for stalling.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

i guess unlike most (all?) characters, snake can actually attempt to hit bowser down there with a c4 or possibly a grenade without risking his own life

 

[Rizen]

Item using characters like Link/TL etc are safe. My Bowser really sucks I need help.

 

[Uncle]

Approaching with Bowser against a good projectile user is always a pain in the ***.

Besides being good at shielding, you have to try to be methodical and unpredictable with your approach. Don't just dash-powershield all the time, or approach via aerial Klaw/fair all the time. Mix it up, perform fake-outs, and try to get the projectile user to leave himself wide open while closing the gap. Usually, such openings will be very momentary, so you have to be quick. A lot of Bowsers (myself included) often make the mistake of committing to something unsafe once we finally get close (like an Ftilt) when a Jab or Klaw would have been much safer. Ftilt can work, but realize that it's a situational mid-range poke/spacing tool, not a close quarters move. Know your moves, quickly get in the projectile user's face when you find an opening, and knock them off-balance. From the first hit, try to see if you can follow up with a second one, and so on. Save the slower, stronger stuff for the moments AFTER you interrupt their projectile spree.

In conclusion, PRESSURE THE **** OUT OF THEM! Don't give them a chance to regroup and start camping again if you can help it! Characters like the Links force you to approach, so you have no choice but to play aggressively. You can't stay back and dodge or shield projectiles forever..........

 

[KuroganeHammer]

i guess unlike most (all?) characters, snake can actually attempt to hit bowser down there with a c4 or possibly a grenade without risking his own life

Zelda, Peach, Diddy, Wario.

Depends on how far Bowser travels though. Stage limits go past the death boundaries. Example, pick Wario and nab a Smashball and then fly past the top death boundaries and laugh as it takes you a minute to get back to the ground.

 

[Rizen]

Any item attack will go through the death zone, hit and instantly KO.

Approaching with Bowser against a good projectile user is always a pain in the ***.

Besides being good at shielding, you have to try to be methodical and unpredictable with your approach. Don't just dash-powershield all the time, or approach via aerial Klaw/fair all the time. Mix it up, perform fake-outs, and try to get the projectile user to leave himself wide open while closing the gap. Usually, such openings will be very momentary, so you have to be quick. A lot of Bowsers (myself included) often make the mistake of committing to something unsafe once we finally get close (like an Ftilt) when a Jab or Klaw would have been much safer. Ftilt can work, but realize that it's a situational mid-range poke/spacing tool, not a close quarters move. Know your moves, quickly get in the projectile user's face when you find an opening, and knock them off-balance. From the first hit, try to see if you can follow up with a second one, and so on. Save the slower, stronger stuff for the moments AFTER you interrupt their projectile spree.

In conclusion, PRESSURE THE **** OUT OF THEM! Don't give them a chance to regroup and start camping again if you can help it! Characters like the Links force you to approach, so you have no choice but to play aggressively. You can't stay back and dodge or shield projectiles forever..........

Thanks, this is good advice.
I'm not at that point yet, lol. Bowser is a very alien character for me in terms of how he moves and spaces. I keep extending his hurt box out or attacking from too far. His floatyness and defensive style feel weird too.
I keep trying to use Koopa like Charizard. It's funny in retrospect
Bowser http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdqdeaie4eQ&feature=plcp
PT http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSwOSYBpk_0&feature=plcp
(Lol) but that's why I'm learning him. I picked up PT because he (they?) was one of my 3 worst characters (+Sonic and Lucario). Now I'm good with him . It's a long road ahead for my Koopa .

...I used to always call Bowser 'Koopa' in the NES Mario games and Mario Kart; now that's returning. Is that alright? No disrespect.

 

[Zigsta]

Also remember that Bowser's Jab beats weaker projectiles. You'll find that walking slowly towards your opponent and Jabbing their projectiles sometimes throws them off psychologically. Something about Bowser slowly moving forward and not giving a flip what comes at him freaks out some people.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

You can configure the titls to the C-Stick...

OH GOD WHAT HAVE I BEEN MISSING ON ALL THESE MONTHS
BOWSER U-TILT HERE I COME

 

[Cassius.]

that's an extremely unnecessary configuration for bowser, but have fun

 

[Rizen]

I smash, Usmash, we all smash for C smash.
...That is to say, I have C set to smash because it's the only way to bomb Fsmash.

I'm practicing Koopa and getting a little better. Which still leaves me sucking royally :/ . Bowser really gets walled out and juggled hard on wifi . I lost to a Pit today by on FD by 1 stock. I time and space fire breath like Char's flamethrower.
Is Koopa worth learning when I have very few offline games?

 

[Cassius.]

my bowser and kingkong's as well were both bred from wifi (and vex's tips), but i'm not particularly sure that i would recommend that experience to anyone else.

you can't expect to be a good bowser player in a matter of days, Rizen. no character play/change, especially playing with someone as difficult and bad as bowser, would let you suddenly become good overnight. even if you decide to main meta knight (as an example), you would still need to not only understand him, but also understand the game as well in order to become a good player and a good (insert character name here) player. (i believe that they are two different things, a lot of people have trouble understanding that).

 

[Deleted member 189823]

that's an extremely unnecessary configuration for bowser, but have fun

Well, trying to U-Tilt with Tap Jump under pressure in the middle of a fight was just hard, and Tap Jump off was not an option. :,( And it seems that D-Tilting is becoming faster too.
I can Smash just fine with A+[Input Direction]

I'm practicing Koopa and getting a little better. Which still leaves me sucking royally :/ . Bowser really gets walled out and juggled hard on wifi . I lost to a Pit today by on FD by 1 stock. I time and space fire breath like Char's flamethrower.
Is Koopa worth learning when I have very few offline games?

I think Firebreath is unnecesary. If used, use it in short bursts.

 

[Cassius.]

You can Up Tilt with the C Stick set to smash...just hold up on the joystick.

It's difficult now when you're under pressure but that's the point of practice. And you can pivot it freely, it's really not difficult and does not require massive configuration.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Any item attack will go through the death zone, hit and instantly KO.

Bowser falls faster than you can throw an item.

GG, destroyed, annihilated, 4 stocked in a 3 stock game etc.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

You can Up Tilt with the C Stick set to smash...just hold up on the joystick.

I never really understood what you meant there. How is that different than what you do by holding up and just pressing A?

 

[Cassius.]

You won't get an UpSmash when you hold up on the joystick and flick up-c, whereas if you hold up and press A a variety of things can happen if you do it wrong. Between both methods it's just a matter of being as precise as possible with how you "tilt" the stick.

(The assumption is that you're tilting up properly in the first place.) There's no big difference, aside from the fact that if you wanted to do a pivot UTilt there is a chance that you could get an angled FTilt instead when you use the A button... but my main point to you specifically, Swei, is that the "tilt-stick" method is totally unnecessary for Bowser.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Tilt stick doesn't even work properly.

When I learnt about it, I thought "AMAZING MY SHEIK WILL BE UNBEATABLE NOW"

*uses tilt stick*
*mashes stick forward*
>Sheik jumps

what the bike

 

[Rizen]

Bowser falls faster than you can throw an item.

But then he hangs in place at the stage boundary from the glitch and the item can curve down and hit him.

 

[Cassius.]

sheik jumps if you press FORWARD with attack set to C Stick.

yo ulllll brawl

 

[KuroganeHammer]

But then he hangs in place at the stage boundary from the glitch and the item can curve down and hit him.

no

sheik jumps if you press FORWARD with attack set to C Stick.

yo ulllll brawl

that's what i said

 

[Rizen]

^It's possible to literally bomb anywhere characters can go on every stage except the ceiling corners. Items travel through blast zones and curve with gravity. Bombs also explode with transcendent attack. There is no safe place.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

^It's possible to literally bomb anywhere characters can go on every stage except the ceiling corners. Items travel through blast zones and curve with gravity. Bombs also explode with transcendent attack. There is no safe place.

no

 

[Rizen]

^yep, yep, yep!

my bowser and kingkong's as well were both bred from wifi (and vex's tips), but i'm not particularly sure that i would recommend that experience to anyone else.

you can't expect to be a good bowser player in a matter of days, Rizen. no character play/change, especially playing with someone as difficult and bad as bowser, would let you suddenly become good overnight. even if you decide to main meta knight (as an example), you would still need to not only understand him, but also understand the game as well in order to become a good player and a good (insert character name here) player. (i believe that they are two different things, a lot of people have trouble understanding that).

That's good advice and I agree.
MK's broken enough that I can suck but do well faking him lol. Low tiers can't be faked as much because their unforgiving natures.

Bowser's hurt box/hitbubble relation throws me off. He extends his body forward in neutral motions but retracts inward (shell) for some moves. Bowser has trouble attacking under him too. I have trouble spacing with out putting Bowser in a position where he can be hit first.
Here's vs Pit btw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdpuizv8EZo&feature=plcp Pit's disjointed reach frustrated me. Bowser seems to have little disjoint relative to his hurtbox size. I tried to DI out of Pit's forwardB and punish with Fsmash because its range but that didn't work (and I do that with Link). I need to experiment with what works or not and get that in my head better.

 

[Cassius.]

what i do against characters who are directly below me is that i just change the place that im landing. if anything, i just side b everything.

if you stick around long enough you'll begin to hate me because of the advice i give. i've been telling everyone the same thing the older bowser players have been telling me for years--to use side-b more. im going to watch the video tomorrow because i'm tired atm but chances are you're probably not using side b in most situations or at least thinking about it. its a low risk-moderate-high reward move so use it lol

 

[Flayl]

Attack C-stick is garbage, I tried it out myself for grab-release stuff a couple years ago. Not worth it

 

[Deleted member 189823]

sheik jumps if you press FORWARD with attack set to C Stick.

yo ulllll brawl

That actually happened to me while U-Tilting. It's uncommon, though. Why does it happen? It also happened to me before this configuration while trying to F-Air. My character moved backward when I tried to F-Air. It's so strange.

what i do against characters who are directly below me is that i just change the place that im landing. if anything, i just side b everything.

if you stick around long enough you'll begin to hate me because of the advice i give. i've been telling everyone the same thing the older bowser players have been telling me for years--to use side-b more. im going to watch the video tomorrow because i'm tired atm but chances are you're probably not using side b in most situations or at least thinking about it. its a low risk-moderate-high reward move so use it lol

I agree. I've been using Klaw to cover my landings lately, and it's working alot better.

Attack C-stick is garbage, I tried it out myself for grab-release stuff a couple years ago. Not worth it

May I ask why?

 

[Cassius.]

because attack c stick doesn't help with buffering or something extremely stupid, i remember flayl mentioning why it didn't work a couple years ago.

i have no idea why other actions come out when you press for something else. maybe it's just a fudging of inputs? that's my best guess..

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Buffer what?

 

[Cassius.]

to buffer the attack out of a grab release. that's the whole idea of grab releasing, that bowser has the frame advantage. in order to do the dirty ****, you need to buffer it (the tilts)

 

[Deleted member 189823]

To "buffer" something is to do it "frame-perfect", right? Otherwise Bowser wouldn't be able to pull, say a tilt after GR'ing?

 

[Rizen]

What are the best general grab release options? So I can do something when I don't know the MU and every scenario's options.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Usually it's GR to Klaw, regrab or D-Tilt for the kill.
I like to use GR to F-Smash if it's against a constant spotdodger. If they're expecting the grab and shield, go for a regrab or Klaw (if they're right next to you).

 

[NickRiddle]

To "buffer" something is to do it "frame-perfect", right? Otherwise Bowser wouldn't be able to pull, say a tilt after GR'ing?

10 frames or less before an animation ends, you can input an action, and it will come out as soon as possible

 

[Flayl]

To "buffer" something is to do it "frame-perfect", right? Otherwise Bowser wouldn't be able to pull, say a tilt after GR'ing?

You have 10 frames to input an action before it comes out

Example: When you drop your shield, you have 7 frames where Bowser can't do anything. If you press A during these 7 frames, Bowser will jab as soon as those 7 frames have passed.

For grab releases you use the last 10 frames of the release animation to buffer stuff.

If you press the C-stick (while set to attack) twice during the release animation, Bowser will jump instead of doing the tilt. So you can't mash it to try and take advantage of the buffering period.

 

[Labernash]

I don't think you guys appreciated Aerodome's Bowsers.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Hey, 10 frames is just enough to input a F/D-Tilt. (: But I didn't have problems with Bowser jumping when inputing either of the tilts with the C-stick.
I still wonder why the character jumps when the C-stick is set to Attack.

Aerodome had a Bowser?

 

[Cassius.]

the problem is that most people know of bowser's gimmicks enough to the point where they should be able to tell if you **** up usually by an awkward pause or by you just not attacking lol. for example if you ground release an mk and mess up your attack, he can shuttle loop you for a pretty rad (lolword) counterattack. a smart player would keep that in mind and then bait an SL the next time MK gets grabbed. that's a free usmash kill...but that's just a theorycrafted-out-of-my-*** example so don't read into it too much.

swei you probably werent buffering the tilt within the gr frame window that bowser has, which probably means your grab release follow-ups should not have worked at all...unless you were playing ness or lucas and even then you might be cutting it close.

speaking of which, does anyone know that if a shuttle loop is actually whiffed or evaded, can bowser actually dash & usmash meta knight before he can change directions? that'd be pretty cool. of course the most optimal thing would probably be to just FAir him and not risk missing a key punish, but i like to get brutal with my work.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

So how do I buffer a tilt, then?
I hold the direction I want to hit while I'm pummeling.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I don't think you guys appreciated Aerodome's Bowsers.

Agreed.