Oh, come on. That's like saying Fox vs Jiglypuff can't compete because he can infinite shine pwn and she can't.... but we all know how this isn't true don't we?
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Will we have Smash Ball activated as an item in the pro/competitive scene?
- Thread starter clowsui
- Start date
Played a lot today, and overall I would say the best one is Sonics for 4 people free for all's, or teamplay without team attack, or team play if you can control it well. It lasts a long time, and can pretty much kill everyone if you can just slightly control it.
Marth's is hard to hit with if you aren't quick.
My personal opinion would be to leave them on, as they add a flavor to the game.
Marth's is hard to hit with if you aren't quick.
My personal opinion would be to leave them on, as they add a flavor to the game.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Whether or not we have FSes in the competatvie scene will be determined by...the competative scene. There won't be any kind of vote (because random people who don't even go to tournaments should not be able to determine what rules tournaments have) and will most likely be decided by the back room after some testing.
Speculation is fine, but it really won't be decided one way or another for a while, and casuals aren't going to have a say in the matter because it really doesn't affect them nearly as much as it does the competative players (who will actually have to abide by these rules while in tournaments, so it's only fair that they get to pick the rules themselves.)
Speculation is fine, but it really won't be decided one way or another for a while, and casuals aren't going to have a say in the matter because it really doesn't affect them nearly as much as it does the competative players (who will actually have to abide by these rules while in tournaments, so it's only fair that they get to pick the rules themselves.)
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
I've seen tons of videos where someone was knocked way far out and then a smash ball appeared. It was pretty much a free FS to the guy on the stage. How is that fair at all?
Takeshi245
Smash Champion
He's got a point. This is MookieRah, Buzz's long lost brother, after all. It seems that when it comes to professional tournaments, the Smash Ball will be off considering how unbalanced it is. After all, Sakurai didn't put it in there for balance in the first place. As for the others, that's fine. Someone could just make their own tournament with Smash Balls in them.
I think its hard to speculate because so few people have played the game (in the States).
But if I were to guess, I would say no. It seems like some characters FS are avoidable like Lucas/Ness.' Where as some seem to be completely the opposite, like Kirby's (atleast it seems to be the case from the videos I have seen).
I could be wrong. But like I said, I don't think there is any way of knowing until its been played a lot.
But if I were to guess, I would say no. It seems like some characters FS are avoidable like Lucas/Ness.' Where as some seem to be completely the opposite, like Kirby's (atleast it seems to be the case from the videos I have seen).
I could be wrong. But like I said, I don't think there is any way of knowing until its been played a lot.
Yes, but the smash ball takes a couple of hits to break (three or four, is it?) that also knock it away, so you can't break it right away with a multi hit attack. If the Smash Ball appears while a character is away from the platform, most characters would have more than enough time to return to the platform and break the smash ball (since it's only the last blow that counts. I say "most characters" only because i don't know them well. It might be all of them).
On the other hand, the char that remains on the platform will either focus on attacking the S.Ball (ignoring the returning character) or edgeguarding (ignoring the smash ball).
So that's basically why i think Smash Balls would be viable.
Drunken_Dragon
Smash Journeyman
from what i can tell from playing, the smash ball breaking is based on dmg , not hits.
i can do two full dairs with mario and sometimes it dosent break. i think its "health" is randomly in the 40-60 range. (roughly)
mookie: the smash ball is harder to get than it seems, its movement is very random and effected by attacks in weird ways, and loves to be high up , alot of times above double jump distance. ive been knocked off the stage almost koed and have had others not be able to get the smash ball quick enough due to those attributes.
my only problem is with item appearance on the lowest setting, smash balls are pretty often in 4 stock matches. ive not played with 3stock at all though.. so i wonder if maybe the quickness of those would make them less rampant? ohh, and trying to stall for a smashball even in those matches was a joke.
on topic about the smashes: some of them can be used more effectively in certain ways.. imo none of them are flat out worthless. but in 1v1 matches ive survived multiple final smashes (mostly sonic, dedede's and luigis) relatively easily. if you screw up against luigis, it IS a free ko because he will just walk up and ping-upb you. sonic is just dodging, even with the player trying to just sit ontop of you you can pretty much dodge it, and if your not rocking 60%+ you can survive a few hits of him comboing you with his face. (which you can still airdodge out of i might add). Dedede's is annoying, but you can stall out of it if you know what to watch for. (you can especially ledge stall the entire **** thing if you get to it )
ive dodged marths on occasion, its pretty fast, i cant give frames or anything though. it seems with the "big hit" supers or "auto combo" supers, rolling through the intial hit is pretty on point. just requires some yomi and not mindless running away. also: lots of characters "float down" if they use their super in the air (luigi/dedede) they die if they use them off stage (luigi's might recover just soon enough if you do it high in the air.. but that would also make the super useless to begin with), ive not seen them use it in range to float and grab a ledge.
funny side note about luigis: if you try to jump out of it off the stage to grab the ledge, youll helplessly fall in tumble stun to your death if the sleep catches you in mid jump. lol... embarassing.
i can do two full dairs with mario and sometimes it dosent break. i think its "health" is randomly in the 40-60 range. (roughly)
mookie: the smash ball is harder to get than it seems, its movement is very random and effected by attacks in weird ways, and loves to be high up , alot of times above double jump distance. ive been knocked off the stage almost koed and have had others not be able to get the smash ball quick enough due to those attributes.
my only problem is with item appearance on the lowest setting, smash balls are pretty often in 4 stock matches. ive not played with 3stock at all though.. so i wonder if maybe the quickness of those would make them less rampant? ohh, and trying to stall for a smashball even in those matches was a joke.
on topic about the smashes: some of them can be used more effectively in certain ways.. imo none of them are flat out worthless. but in 1v1 matches ive survived multiple final smashes (mostly sonic, dedede's and luigis) relatively easily. if you screw up against luigis, it IS a free ko because he will just walk up and ping-upb you. sonic is just dodging, even with the player trying to just sit ontop of you you can pretty much dodge it, and if your not rocking 60%+ you can survive a few hits of him comboing you with his face. (which you can still airdodge out of i might add). Dedede's is annoying, but you can stall out of it if you know what to watch for. (you can especially ledge stall the entire **** thing if you get to it )
ive dodged marths on occasion, its pretty fast, i cant give frames or anything though. it seems with the "big hit" supers or "auto combo" supers, rolling through the intial hit is pretty on point. just requires some yomi and not mindless running away. also: lots of characters "float down" if they use their super in the air (luigi/dedede) they die if they use them off stage (luigi's might recover just soon enough if you do it high in the air.. but that would also make the super useless to begin with), ive not seen them use it in range to float and grab a ledge.
funny side note about luigis: if you try to jump out of it off the stage to grab the ledge, youll helplessly fall in tumble stun to your death if the sleep catches you in mid jump. lol... embarassing.
Endless Nightmares
Smash Master
Do you think some characters have a greater advantage when it comes to getting smash balls? A character with power or long range will get it much easier than someone who has no reach or can't jump as high...
Is peach pulling a bob-omb fair? No. So we can't really use the whole "its unfair" thing....was Fox vs Link fair? negative.
Having smash balls won't be as bad as everyone is making them out to be. I hope competitive people AT LEAST try them out before just saying they are over powered. Being a high-level competitive smasher myself I understand that we try to eliminate all random factors but you also have to look at it being a new obstacle to overcome. I think it will be fun to test them out in tournaments....see how people react when they spawn, if people will even go for them if your opponent is on the stage. Really the only way I can see someone 100% getting a smash ball is if your opponent is off the stage.
The only problem so far is the spawn being random.
Having smash balls won't be as bad as everyone is making them out to be. I hope competitive people AT LEAST try them out before just saying they are over powered. Being a high-level competitive smasher myself I understand that we try to eliminate all random factors but you also have to look at it being a new obstacle to overcome. I think it will be fun to test them out in tournaments....see how people react when they spawn, if people will even go for them if your opponent is on the stage. Really the only way I can see someone 100% getting a smash ball is if your opponent is off the stage.
The only problem so far is the spawn being random.
Endless Nightmares
Smash Master
Yes, but Peach has a 1/300 chance of pulling one, and it doesn't even have as much of an effect as a final smash.
If Final Smashes are on in tournaments, get ready for plenty of Marth dittos. And nothing else.
If Final Smashes are on in tournaments, get ready for plenty of Marth dittos. And nothing else.
I've been in tournament matches where the Peach player has pulled 2 bob-ombs and a stitch face in the same match. Its random.
If you haven't played the game then you don't know how easy/hard it is to avoid Marth's FS. I can't even say how easy/hard it is until this weekend when I get to play the game, lol. But I'm sure it won't be difficult....I also hear if he misses he dies. But like I said it wont hurt to test them out. If they are unbalanced and overpowered and turn the tide of matches when someone gets a SB then we can take them out of tourneys...pretty simple really lol.
If you haven't played the game then you don't know how easy/hard it is to avoid Marth's FS. I can't even say how easy/hard it is until this weekend when I get to play the game, lol. But I'm sure it won't be difficult....I also hear if he misses he dies. But like I said it wont hurt to test them out. If they are unbalanced and overpowered and turn the tide of matches when someone gets a SB then we can take them out of tourneys...pretty simple really lol.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Yes it's random, but that situation is also 1/540000 and we can't remove that bit of randomness (if we could, we would).
Sure it could be easy to avoid Marth's final smash if your far away, if he's any smart he'll just pressure you until he can find a vulnerable point (like d-tilting your shield to make your roll, or waiting for you to try to beat it out of him and hitting you in lag). That does take quite a bit of skill, but the reward if far too great even in that case.
NO, MARTH DOES NOT DIE IF HE'S ON THE GROUND AND HE MISSES A FINAL SMASH. THAT ONLY APPLIES IF HE'S IN THE AIR WHEN HE DOES IT.
We can still try them, but I still think they'll be out.
I also think they'll be out lol...I would just like for them to be tried out.
Also I have a question for anyone who has a game. If you have the Smash Ball and do not use it for a certain amount of time does the power just disappear? or do you keep it until you use your FS?
Also I have a question for anyone who has a game. If you have the Smash Ball and do not use it for a certain amount of time does the power just disappear? or do you keep it until you use your FS?
kenhead
Smash Apprentice
I doubt smash balls are in competitive play even though they are a big part of the game. Many pro smash ball comments have made good points, but some are just way better than others and whoever the smash ball appears next to gets it. There is just way too much luck involved.
Mario_ 101
Smash Ace
Smash balls probably won't be in.
Yes, as it's floating around, the chars like Kirby have an easier time at hitting it. Others might have to use both jumps to even reach it, but it does float around quite a lot. I took the smash ball a few times from far away while others were at it by using Pit's arrows, and the reactions are always great.
Again I personally think it's dependent on the tournament director. I would personally leave them on for that extra kick, but I think they will be off in the major competitive scenes.
Jiangjunizzy
Smash Lord
you guys know what happens if marth misses his FS right? lol
super-7
Smash Journeyman
im pretty sure i saw u can turn crates off, so smash balls should be in competitive play
Kyldare
Smash Apprentice
All in favor of ending it here say "Aye"... *all reasonable people "Aye"
Kyldare
Smash Apprentice
I feel a poll coming on... hopefully....
SilverChaos
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2007
- Messages
- 77
I have to ask, has anyone found out what happens to the smash ball if it is broken by, say, a projectile attack, or a pokeball pokemon?
I don't think I've ever seen this happen in a video.
I don't think I've ever seen this happen in a video.
SilverBlaze
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2007
- Messages
- 86
Whomever breaks the Smash Ball gets it, even if it's with a projectile. I saw a video of Peach stealing a ball with the Super Scope. This gives characters like the spacies a huge advantage.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
A poll is not how we will decide whether or not smash balls are left on for the tournament scene. The reason there will be no poll is because the results would be widely influenced by people who actually have no intention of becoming part of the tournament scene, and thus won't be affected by the outcome of the poll.
The best way to decide whether or not they will be left in is to simply repeat what we did in melee. Test it out to see if it works, and if it doesn't then take it out later.
TheMastermind
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2007
- Messages
- 516
The answer is no, bottom line. There is no way in hell ANYONE will play tournements with this activated EVER.
Peach Tree
Smash Cadet
just like the past 51 pages said, no it would add too much of an element of luck to the game. This would piss people off playing for money as well.
It's not so much the luck factor but the pay out. You get too much for doing too little. The smash ball turns the tide of the fight to greatly and quickly in a fair fight. The outcome of a match most likely will just come down to who gets the smash ball with two evenly matched people.
slimpyman
Smash Journeyman
you people are nuts. i think we need to keep any options open, and settle down with it for a few months. isnt it true that the true variety of final smashes point to the fact they add another element to the character?
I'd play in a tournament with them on. Hey, by your logic I'd win too. Go me.
Team Giza
Smash Lord
Its possible. It all depends on how avoidable they are and how easy it is for character to get them compared to there final smashes power. Unless it really starts to seem like final smashes are a huge part of who wins tournaments than I don't think they should be banned right away.
Jiangjunizzy
Smash Lord
why don't people just try it?
Endless Nightmares
Smash Master
why don't people just read the thread? >_>
Xengri
Smash Journeyman
You know, along time ago, I was actually for smash balls being in tournaments. However, after seeing all the smashes and who got what, there's no way smash balls should get into to competitive play.
I thought that final smashes would actually balance the tiers, instead they throw balance out the window.
Think about it, in melee alot of people complained that tournaments were all high tier characters (Fox/Falco/Sheik/Marth [notice how they all have amazing smashes]).
If smash balls were allowed it would be even worse.
It'd be understandable if a character like DK got a final smash like Marth and Marth got a Final smash like Dk's, then it might actually play a role in balance but, it's not like that.
Unless you guys really want to see the same character match ups, to a even greater extent then melee, you should be against Final smashes in competitive play.
I thought that final smashes would actually balance the tiers, instead they throw balance out the window.
Think about it, in melee alot of people complained that tournaments were all high tier characters (Fox/Falco/Sheik/Marth [notice how they all have amazing smashes]).
If smash balls were allowed it would be even worse.
It'd be understandable if a character like DK got a final smash like Marth and Marth got a Final smash like Dk's, then it might actually play a role in balance but, it's not like that.
Unless you guys really want to see the same character match ups, to a even greater extent then melee, you should be against Final smashes in competitive play.
Jiangjunizzy
Smash Lord
@56k: did i miss something?
i don't see any youtubes of people attempting to play a competitive match w/FS on. please link me if i skimmed over it.
i don't see any youtubes of people attempting to play a competitive match w/FS on. please link me if i skimmed over it.
Jem.
Smash Master
Smash Balls should be turned off.
They're basically an item, and some characters (Star Fox characters) and marth (His kills AT 0% EVEN) make it really imbalanced, its the same reason we turn items off for melee tournaments, they're random and dont show the true skill.
The tournament scene should do itself a favor and play with Smash Balls OFF.
EDIT: TOURNAMENT MATCH WITH SMASH BALL ON: http://youtube.com/watch?v=BVjkkolsJl8
They're bad. Please turn them off.
They're basically an item, and some characters (Star Fox characters) and marth (His kills AT 0% EVEN) make it really imbalanced, its the same reason we turn items off for melee tournaments, they're random and dont show the true skill.
The tournament scene should do itself a favor and play with Smash Balls OFF.
EDIT: TOURNAMENT MATCH WITH SMASH BALL ON: http://youtube.com/watch?v=BVjkkolsJl8
They're bad. Please turn them off.
Alright so I did my owns tests with the smash ball, no matter how many people are in the battle does not increase how much dmg it can take before it is broken, it doesn't take much maybe between 15-25% damage or 2 hits. I also tested it by shooting it with guns and stuff who ever shot it to break it get the ball took 3 hits with the laser gun, I shot the ball 2 times and threw the gun at ball and it broke and still got the smash ball. Also in regards to time you have the ball before you use it i just stood there for 30sec and it never got off me. So if you can place a good hit on the guy with the smash ball he will drop it almost certain. With regards to Marths FS its alright but its not hard to dodge it i havn't tested it with the L button in mid air yet. but you have some time from when he uses it, it goes into slow mo so you can still get away if your fast enough. and if you lure him into the air it make it a bit easier because then he will be wary of dying. Also you can turn off crates in this game
So all in all I do believe that the smash ball would be a good addition to the pro smash community especially in tournys
So all in all I do believe that the smash ball would be a good addition to the pro smash community especially in tournys