Why Marth Isn't Top Tier

[Eggm]

Obviously me and reik aren't as good as m2k, however we aren't THAT much worse and the fact that he.. can 4 stock reik and beat me EVERY SINGLE time.. is kinda ridiculous I know theres no way either of us would get 4 stocked or beat every time for hours on end with any other char.. btw we DID beat m2k/ryoko in a set in teams.. then the next set they banned FD and went double peach and owned us but yeah x.x I dunno I just feel like marth is the best.. due to the fact that his moves outrange all others if you time his moves right hes UNAPPROACHABLE. you will ALWAYS get hit if they don't mess up, which makes marth extremely hard to fight.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Again, you are hating on a character that gives your main problems. He shouldn't be top for all the reasons other people stated before and he ahs more bad match ups then the space animals.

I'm done with this thread. It's getting repetitive. No actually it was repetitive after the first page. Now it's just dumb. >_>

 

[Deleted member]

Jason tells me that marth is top tier all the time, but says that he's 4th best.

You'll also notice that all the fox mains that switch to marth NEVER state that marth has a weakness or problem in any way. when was the last time that KM m2k TX wes said marth was bad at ____________? *insert problem here*

 

[Velox]

Why do people base everything off of what M2K says? Is he the only pro that says anything?

Nevermind... Just don't take everything M2K says to heart like it came out of the bible, I'm sure there are many a pro out there that would disagree with many of his views. Always keep that in mind...

Also, what many people don't take into account is style differences that can influence a player's view on charcter match ups. The only real way to say charcter 'X' counters charcter 'Y' is if like almost every play style that each character can muster still results in the same outcome.

Oh... and... *cough*M2Kisoverratedhe'ssaidithimself*cough* I dont' care if he reads this... I would trust many other pro's views over M2K's... It's not like I dislike him as a person (like most people who dislike him), I've never meet him, I just hate his style of play, which thankfully is vastily different than my own. All the more reason for me to question his views...

 

[Eggm]

Every good marth player says hes 4th best >_>

 

[mog87]

this thread is full of bias and devoid of common sense.

 

[JesiahTEG]

this thread is full of bias and devoid of common sense.

kinda. It's actually interesting to hear everyone's opinions. I've actually learned a lot from this thread. I think ppl may be bias, but they still have valid information to point out.

 

[Inevitable]

Marth isn't top tier because his eyes are blue, get over it.

 

[Jedi (Marth)]

****. I wanted to get in on this one soo bad... but there isn't anything on the last 13 pages that isn't already explored on the first (or on thirteen of the other pages which isn't featured on the remaining one). So for sake of repetition (while also contributing to it a little...?)

I main Marth. I love to play him. I've played a couple others, but I play Marth partly because reaching the level of play and mastery of him as seen with the oldschoolers when Marth was top... well I think it's fairly obvious that it takes quite a bit of work to reach an equal level of success as Shiek/Fox/Falco with Marth. For reasons already mentioned - I like that he's not as Go-Go-Gadget-Top-Tier-Style as all the Fox/Falcos I see out there.

And I'd rather watch a great Marth **** 'in style' than seeing the same old Fox/Falco combos.

And I think it was already mentioned ~ Marth isn't top tier because of his Tiara. 'His' and 'Tiara' just don't belong in the same sentence... but at least when you see him ******, he's making it look good =D

 

[DarkKnight077]

Only reason why Marth is not top tier is because Fox and Falco usually are winning the most tournaments. There is a lot of them than they are Marth players.

 

[K.C. Cloud]

Mow is indeed very knoledgable.

I would also like to add the fact that marth is pretty gay. Marth doesn't have ANY bad match ups. Not a single one.

 

[Aesir]

Mow is indeed very knoledgable.

I would also like to add the fact that marth is pretty gay. Marth doesn't have ANY bad match ups. Not a single one.

Yes he does. >_>

 

[Mew2King]

you guys really have no idea what you're talking about do you. Marth is the 4th best, he's just the easiest of the top 4 to use when playing badly which is why I like him since my super sensitive MLG controller is no longer nearly as good as it used to be, this greatly limits my ability to turn around quickly and therefore move faster and fluidly. I like Marth because brains and knowledge of the game and statistical info can give me a good advantage over other players while it doesn't matter to the same degree with other characters.

None of you guys who don't play me on a regular basis can have any valid word that counts for anything when you say you don't like my style of play, because you are probably basing them off of like 2 vids or something which is horrible to go off of. Only people who play me on a regular basis can have any say in how my style of play is, because I have a LOT of tricks that most people haven't seen.

Anyway, Marth vs Fox is even, Marth vs Falco is even, Marth ***** Peach, Sheik ***** Marth.

People who say otherwise are just angry that I **** them, or they want an excuse to make themselves look better and/or me worse when they lose to me.

None of you guys posting have hardly about Marth at high level play compared to other characters at high level play, but I actually know what I'm talking about so maybe you should just listen to me. Perhaps I should get Ken to repeat what I say because I know he agrees with me. Back when I mained Fox and Sheik I still thought they were better than Marth, and now that I main Marth I still feel the same way. I'm not going to lie about my opinions just to make a character I use or don't use look better or worse, although that is what a LOT of people do whether they will admit it or not. Also when people suck against a character they are inclined to say that too.

What if the time I spent practicing Marth I spent using a different character, that character would do better in tourneys and then people would think different of that too. You can't just do a tier list based off that, because people all choose characters they like to use most of the time.

 

[D1]

Hail Mewtwo King

He is the Only Master of the Mew.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Thank you M2K.

 

[Velox]

None of you guys who don't play me on a regular basis can have any valid word that counts for anything when you say you don't like my style of play,... ...Only people who play me on a regular basis can have any say in how my style of play is, because I have a LOT of tricks that most people haven't seen..

Fair enough.

 

[Deleted member]

Perhaps I should get Ken to repeat what I say because I know he agrees with me.

What if the time I spent practicing Marth I spent using a different character, that character would do better in tourneys and then people would think different of that too. You can't just do a tier list based off that, because people all choose characters they like to use most of the time.

Ken also says Roy and ganon and bowser and DK and weird **** > marth.

And for the record I didn't reference you to the tier list thing at all, I only used ken and azen for the MLG season.

 

[REDRAGON]

"What if the time I spent practicing Marth I spent using a different character, that character would do better in tourneys and then people would think different of that too. You can't just do a tier list based off that, because people all choose characters they like to use most of the time."


100% agree with you there my friend. About Sheik and Fox/falco being better then Marth........Well maybe. But i am still not 100% convinced.

 

[mog87]

what so hard to understand just because x character can beat character y doesnt make x better, you have to reference them both to all the other a-z characters, simple concept.

 

[DGMavn]

The way I see it:

Fox has no awful matchups.
Sheik gays Marth.

Someone can play Fox all the way from scrub round 1 to MLG Finals match 7, but as soon as a Marth runs into a Sheik of equal skill level, that Marth becomes a something else or that Marth goes home.

Also, bumping a hilariously redundant thread.

 

[NJzFinest]

I mistook you for someone else with the same avatar. No hate. While I'm here, review time!

falco's matches
loses to: ?
even with:
peach
samus
fox
marth
sheik
doc
beats: everyone else easily

Why not Mario? Sure, Doc is stronger, but it's a slight difference X_x


right?

 

[eighteenspikes]

I would think it's because Doc's finishers are a lot easier to land from a grab...

 

[JesiahTEG]

This thread is win.

 

[Yadam]

wow M2K posted when i seen that i almost **** myself

 

[Retroking2000]

lol who cares about tiers lol yoshi players dont seem to care LOL

 

[JesiahTEG]

This thread is win.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

Read post #213. End of thread. Good day sirs.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Summary: A Marth that is successful in high levels of play requires the player to be smarter, more creative, and unpredictable than Fox, Falco and Sheik.

This is simply not true. Any successfull player needs to be smart, creative and unpredictable.
Also, every character need to adapt their playing style according to the character they're playing.

 

[Banks]

If i were to go along with this line of thinking, then it would leave me to believe sheik is the best character because not only can you follow the same formula for a ****load of matchups, but there is hardly any required tech skill beyond basics. sheik ftw

 

[rubiksfriend]

Marth seems like an intuitive character, whereas the others seem like memorized characters. Just memorizing combos and approaches won't give Marths an auto-win.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

EDIT: pressed edit on my last post but accidently pressed QUOTE (on myself) and then post. Mods are free to delete this post, please do if you can

 

[-BiGS-]

Marth seems like an intuitive character, whereas the others seem like memorized characters. Just memorizing combos and approaches won't give Marths an auto-win.

I'm pretty sure if you're using memorized approaches and combos, you're going to get owned pretty quickly.

You need to be creative and quick thinking with any character.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I'm pretty sure if you're using memorized approaches and combos, you're going to get owned pretty quickly.

You need to be creative and quick thinking with any character.

I think memorized combos are something like drill kick > waveshine > upsmash with Fox or shine > bair with Falco. Once perfected, those work almost 100% of the time. Approaches, on the other hand, do take mindgames. Though the button input is pretty much the same universally (SHL and shffled nair spam), spacing is an issue.

 

[Ijuka]

Marth has a lot of it's potential unused. Imagine a Marth who can tech-chase any tech vs Sheik until he gets her off the stage and then is able to flawlessly edgeguard Sheik until death. Or Marth grabbing Fox or Falco on FD and every single time chainthrowing them to about 70% and then tippering them. DI and such doesn't matter in these cases. It's possible no matter what your opponent does. But it seems like no one has mastered Marth yet. The closest is Mew2King, but even he isn't perfect. Marth, in my opinion, has the most potential.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

I think memorized combos are something like drill kick > waveshine > upsmash with Fox or shine > bair with Falco. Once perfected, those work almost 100% of the time. Approaches, on the other hand, do take mindgames. Though the button input is pretty much the same universally (SHL and shffled nair spam), spacing is an issue.

True, or SH double fairs, Auto-canceled nairs, chaingrabs, f-throw->tipper, etc...
Bottom line is that all characters demand intuition and improvisation. It has nothing to do with the character really lol

 

[Aesir]

Marth has a lot of it's potential unused. Imagine a Marth who can tech-chase any tech vs Sheik until he gets her off the stage and then is able to flawlessly edgeguard Sheik until death. Or Marth grabbing Fox or Falco on FD and every single time chainthrowing them to about 70% and then tippering them. DI and such doesn't matter in these cases. It's possible no matter what your opponent does. But it seems like no one has mastered Marth yet. The closest is Mew2King, but even he isn't perfect. Marth, in my opinion, has the most potential.

Not really, nothing beats a perfect fox.

 

[JonaDiaper]

a would imagine a perfect falco beats a perfect fox.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Fox's shine has a larger hitbox so a perfect Fox could shine Falco out of anything.

 

[JonaDiaper]

haha let him shine falco's lasers so he can get dair shine combo'ed till like 60%. the fsmashed honestly tho falco>fox.

www.youtube.com/user/TheEggm

watch a few of the 20 vids eggm put up against Jmans fox. thats wat im talkin about

 

[Aesir]

a perfect fox would just power shield it all.