shminkledorf
Smash Ace
Not getting grabbed as space animals is easy just press down b a lot then I kill them like PEW PEW
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Why Marth Isn't Top Tier
- Thread starter JesiahTEG
- Start date
Wow that was real funny.............
If you call Ken,Isai, Hugs and more scrubs, then yes you are right!
lol
shminkledorf
Smash Ace
So who'd you beat? lolz
Aesir
Smash Master
who did you beat at this so called tourney then?> lolol
Well the touny lasted till about 2am so i had to leave early so i never played the pros, but me and my friend played alot of friendlies as a team and we won a fair share!!! Oh i beat 2 people in low tier in the tounnament with Roy and i never use Roy lol. Nice surprize!
Aesir
Smash Master
Translation: no one good.
Xeorogue
Smash Ace
QQQFFFTTT!!!!!!
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
Leave him alone. No one messes with you. No one has the right to make ppl feel bad, even if it is online. I learned that the hard way. Seriously though, just leave the dude alone.
What is there to believe? When you claimed Marth's weaknesses were comparable to Space Animals' the others told you why Fox and Falco don't get grabbed as easily. They asked for tournament experience and you say you went to one with a bunch of top pros... but didn't play against any of them. Aesir's responses may have been rather cynical, but he still brought up his points.
The tier list is indeed just a popularity contest. The latest one is based entirely on major tournament results. As for a non-tourney-based one... last I checked, in a mathematically calculated tier list, it went something like Falco Sheik Marth Fox Peach. Marth never has a particularly easy time, as far as I can tell. You always have to be thinking if you want to play him to a high level. And, with your experience being only playing AGAINST Marth, well... you do know that Samus has an even matchup against Fox, right?
The tier list is indeed just a popularity contest. The latest one is based entirely on major tournament results. As for a non-tourney-based one... last I checked, in a mathematically calculated tier list, it went something like Falco Sheik Marth Fox Peach. Marth never has a particularly easy time, as far as I can tell. You always have to be thinking if you want to play him to a high level. And, with your experience being only playing AGAINST Marth, well... you do know that Samus has an even matchup against Fox, right?
I do play a alright marth.
And no the match-up is in Fox's favor by a little. A 55-45 in Fox's favor.
You should watch some Ken videos when he fights Bombsoldier and other Fox/Falco. When he grabs them(Which he does alot) it is a kill 80-85% of the time. Chaingrab->tipper.
Why do i bring this up??? Its Marth strength with Chaingrabs and Fox/Falco HUGE weakness.
Explain this besides "they are hard to grab"
And no the match-up is in Fox's favor by a little. A 55-45 in Fox's favor.
You should watch some Ken videos when he fights Bombsoldier and other Fox/Falco. When he grabs them(Which he does alot) it is a kill 80-85% of the time. Chaingrab->tipper.
Why do i bring this up??? Its Marth strength with Chaingrabs and Fox/Falco HUGE weakness.
Explain this besides "they are hard to grab"
Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
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Stop posting in this friggin thread. >_>
Seriously. NO ONE ELSE NEEDS TO POST IN THIS THREAD!
JesiahTEG has already said that he has learned what he needed to. That means there is nothing left to discuss. The thread has served the TC's purpose.
THREAD OVER!!!!!
B-Will please close this.
Seriously. NO ONE ELSE NEEDS TO POST IN THIS THREAD!
JesiahTEG has already said that he has learned what he needed to. That means there is nothing left to discuss. The thread has served the TC's purpose.
THREAD OVER!!!!!
B-Will please close this.
Aesir
Smash Master
*post post post* LOL EMBLEM LORD I SPITE YOU!
are you going to pound 2 btw? even though I'm awful in marth dittos I need to play you LOL
are you going to pound 2 btw? even though I'm awful in marth dittos I need to play you LOL
Brightside6382
Smash Lord
Yea I forgot how 2-3 year old footage perfectly portrays the current metagame, boy am I stupid.
At least your honest!!
Emblem Lord
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REDRAGON: Dude, just stop. Seriously.
D
Deleted member
Guest
if you want current footage, look up VoD from MLG for the 2006 season. No one but m2k beats any of the marths as fox. And now, he plays marth dittos instead.
Things to note:
PC beats ken and azen marth with falco, not fox
KDJ beats ken and azen marth as sheik, not fox
Isai beats ken and azen marth as sheik/falcon, not fox.
Aside from Mew2King, no fox players this past season have beaten azen or kens marths. Mew2King, however, openly admits that his best matches are fox/marth vs fox/marth in any combination.
PC KDJ Isai Ken Mew2King Azen all play fox as a secondary character, or 3rd in the cases of azen and isai out of the 2006 top 8. Aside from Mew2King, none of the MLG Marths, M2K, azen, ken have lost to a fox player.
Ken has beaten every fox player in tournament besides m2k in the past 2 years.
At top levels of play, Marth beats Fox.
firexemblemxpryde
Smash Lord
Azen and Ken have ridiculously good Marths. M2K has a ridiculously good Fox. Maybe that's why he goes fox, or went Fox, against Marth. M2k told me that he likes Marth dittos, and that they are hella fun. This may or may not be a factor in his recent change to this match-up.
KDJ goes Sheik against Ken/Azen - maybe - because Sheik has a bigger advantage than Fox. Is this not a possibility?
Isai maybe goes Sheik for the same reason. Also, isn't it likely that Isai's Falcon/Sheik has more experience playing against Ken's Marth than playing it as Fox?
PC is just crazy =) . Or maybe he wants to stick with his main character to beat the best, instead of choosing a different character to counterpick.
Note also that Ken has also recently shown interest in going Fox against Fox, especially after playing against M2K.
Just some ideas.
KDJ goes Sheik against Ken/Azen - maybe - because Sheik has a bigger advantage than Fox. Is this not a possibility?
Isai maybe goes Sheik for the same reason. Also, isn't it likely that Isai's Falcon/Sheik has more experience playing against Ken's Marth than playing it as Fox?
PC is just crazy =) . Or maybe he wants to stick with his main character to beat the best, instead of choosing a different character to counterpick.
Note also that Ken has also recently shown interest in going Fox against Fox, especially after playing against M2K.
Just some ideas.
WOW nice. I did not know that. I think people dont see marth as an Advanced player; they just see him as a guys thats easy to play.My friend says he is easy to play as lol.
Marth is definitely easy to play. I mean, come on - he has arguably the best FSmash in the game. That, along with the longest-ranged melee attacks, decent movement and attack speed, good recovery...
Playing him well.... that's something else entirely.
Playing him well.... that's something else entirely.
Please spell the name of your source correctly, at the very least. UmbreonMow mentioned that Ken's Marth doesn't lose to Fox. He did not say that Marth destroys Fox; in fact, I'd wonder how many games were finished with two or more stocks left, compared to winning by a single stock.
Emblem Lord
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Mow's post just proves just how few pro Marths there are that can win major tournies.
There are 3 good Marths in high level play that can win a major tourney. M2K, Azen, and Ken.
Oh yeah, 2 of them main fox as well.
Thread over.
There are 3 good Marths in high level play that can win a major tourney. M2K, Azen, and Ken.
Oh yeah, 2 of them main fox as well.
Thread over.
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
I actually kinda want this thread to be over too, emblem lord. But people are still discussing things about Marth that are relevant to his current position on the tier list, so it's not that bad that they are still discussing.
D
Deleted member
Guest
what you meant EL is that there are only 3 good marths, but all of them can compete in MLG, which says something. If you want a good comparison, there's only 1 falco on that list.
Pat/Pro
Smash Ace
You can find tons of videos of top level marths losing to fox's. The matchup is highly level dependent but its not as bad as you guys are making it out to be. On neutral levels it can pretty much go either way. Its all part of the shiek fox marth triangle where one does well against one but is at a slight disadvantage against the other. They should rename rock paper scissors to shiek fox marth.
The only reason that they arent losing to these players fox's is because its just easier to use shiek/falco/cf not because they can't.
The only reason that they arent losing to these players fox's is because its just easier to use shiek/falco/cf not because they can't.
Emblem Lord
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There are tons of good space animals. Not alot of good Marths.
Aesir
Smash Master
well first off PC Chris uses more fox then falco now.
Foxes generally do better in tourneys then a marth will.
Kens a prodigy he has a natural talent in this game which allows him to use marth very well.
Ryan-K
Smash Master
FLt, pc chris (NO HE IS NOT A FALCO MAIN OK GET IT STRAIGHT HE ONLY USES FALCO VS MARTH AND SOMETIMES JUST FOR ****S AND GIGGLES), M2K, ken sometimes, KDJ, tink, forward, Chillin, Helios in europe, KM, cunningkitsune, off the top of my head im sure theres more.
marth: Ken, azen, flt sometimes, pc chris sometimes, km
marth: Ken, azen, flt sometimes, pc chris sometimes, km
UMBC Super Smasher
Smash Lord
Chillin, Chu Dat, Ken, Helios, Kaiser, Tink, Taj, Masashi, Bombsoldier, Isai, Azen, Zelgadis, KM, Jing, Rob$, just to name a few who win tournaments with fox.
edit: superryan beat me to it by 4 mins. Darn it!
when has Chu won a tounament with Fox??? Isai has won tounaments with Fox???
I think you are saying that they USE fox as a backup. Ken does not win tounys with Fox.........
I could make a list twice that size with people that play as Marth as a secoundary...
I think you are saying that they USE fox as a backup. Ken does not win tounys with Fox.........
I could make a list twice that size with people that play as Marth as a secoundary...
Link226
Smash Ace
Wow i didnt know that PC Chris didnt main falco. I think he does, can you prove to me he doesnt? Umm Tink & Forward main Falco, Ken mains Marth. What the hell? I thought we were talking about people who main him.
Ryan-K
Smash Master
Pc told me he doesnt and also his recent playing in tournies show he doesnt use falco as much.
Tink and Forward both use Fox enough to be considered strong secondaris, also theres a reason i put ken SOMETIMES because he uses fox occassionally.
Also not alot of people use marth as a secondary. Really mostly PC and m2K do (well m2k mains marth now i think not sure) and KDJ did for chu but thats it
Tink and Forward both use Fox enough to be considered strong secondaris, also theres a reason i put ken SOMETIMES because he uses fox occassionally.
Also not alot of people use marth as a secondary. Really mostly PC and m2K do (well m2k mains marth now i think not sure) and KDJ did for chu but thats it
Aesir
Smash Master
Name a marth other then Ken that wisn tourneys... its more often then not a fox who wins.
So any guy that uses Marth SOMETHIMES counts as a Marth player............ummmm.....
To Aesir: What about Azen my friend???????
Azen beat PC and Isai in tounaments....
Ryan-K
Smash Master
No.
Because you said "I could make a list twice that size with people that play as Marth as a secoundary..."
I did the work for you.
Clearly, it's not twice the size.
Because you said "I could make a list twice that size with people that play as Marth as a secoundary..."
I did the work for you.
Clearly, it's not twice the size.
wow if you want a good example of who is good come to the mid west we have no Great marth players just foxes and falcos and one peach who keeps playing fox(vidjo maybe you know of him) and one sheik(Drephen) all the rest are foxes and falcos
oh ya one cheap IC's player too
but fox falco players
dope
cunning
mathos
tink
and many others when ever i go to tournys all i ever face is fox and falcos
i forgot about darkrain that sexy falcon but no marths
B-ryan is a good marth player though and he is in the midwest but he has yet to preform as good as our other greats
oh ya one cheap IC's player too
but fox falco players
dope
cunning
mathos
tink
and many others when ever i go to tournys all i ever face is fox and falcos
i forgot about darkrain that sexy falcon but no marths
B-ryan is a good marth player though and he is in the midwest but he has yet to preform as good as our other greats
UMBC Super Smasher
Smash Lord
Well last Saturday at the tournament I hosted, Chu placed 2nd and used fox/IC's.
Ken does win tourneys with fox. If he can't win with marth or if it is much easier to use fox, then he switches to fox.
I don't know a pro who cannot use fox at a very high level. Few pros can use marth at a very high level.