Why is no one using D Smash?!

[Blistering Speed]

Every marth video I've watched (quite a few now) I have seen something like 2 D Smashes and yet I've seen a gazillion F Smashes and yknow what? IMO, D Smash is better then F Smash, yep I said it. The more I use D Smash the better it seem to get. Very Fast, great range, hits both sides and kills Vertically (better then Horizontally in Brawl because of float physics and good recoveries) at relatively low percentages. Plus for me I've always found it easy to tipper (I know that doesn't make much sense but I often find myself in the D Smash tipper position).

Moral of the post, use D Smash moar

 

[Subeinu]

After reading your post i had to try mixing Dsmash in my playstyle, and it works quite good for killing. But i would say that its a move you have to plan alittle, as i tend to get easily punished from above .

 

[meepxzero]

i mayb said this a month ago o well

 

[zCasanova]

Because of the tremendous amount of lag that dsmash has if you miss or if your opponent shields, I usually end up using dtilit or db instead, that way if I did judge wrong and something does happen, I won't end up getting punished.

However, there have been several occasions where I have used it only to have people dodge roll behind me just in time to get hit with the second swipe. And, I think you're right, dsmash tippers do seem to be more consistent than fsmash tippers. I guess it's a toss-up between which is the better smash?

Anyone want to list the pros and cons?

 

[Jibbles]

DSmash vs FSmash

Pros of DSmash
- Hits both sides
- Starts up faster (6 frames vs 10 frames)
- Untipped DSmash is stronger than untipped FSmash
- Can kill vertically as well as horizontally

Cons of DSmash
- Lots of lag.
- Not as powerful when tipped compared to the FSmash
- You can jump over the DSmash and avoid it, whereas FSmash can hit airborne foes
- Less range than the FSmash (I think)

 

[Doodx]

fsmash is still better becuz it sends oponement out of stage and it means that it is edgeguarding time (marth is probably the best at this) and this is basicly free dmg or even a free kill
dsmash can ko LIGHT characters at low percentages VERY easily such as pikachu. hes hard to ko sideways (because of his frigin huge recovery) and be edgeguarded so it may be better to ko upwards
Fsmash sends the other guy out of the stage which gives you the chance to build damage or even KO them which is probably the best thing a marth can get because i believe that he is the best edgeguarder
i usualy do it when someone rolls through me so that it hits behind me without them noticing whats happening
also Fsmah hits above you so it is easier to hit with it

 

[DKKountry]

Jibbles... Jibbly-Jibbly-Jibbly-Jibbly... I wanna chop you up and make some little Jibblets...

Your name is neat.

 

[Rave925]

Tipper Fsmash is devastating and can kill at pretty low percentages depending on where you are. Just like Jibbles said, the Fsmash hit's airborne foes pretty easily while the Dsmash only hits the ground. Besides, if you mess up on the Dsmash you're screwed. I can't even tell you how many times the Dsmash screwed me over against a really good opponent.

 

[VietGeek]

Dsmash shouldn't be used so consistently due to the fact that there's tremendous risk should you whiff it. To be honest, a lot of my smashes are used as fear inducers, so they can roll away and get me some space. My damaging is done with the help of tilts. Kills can be with aerials or smashes or B moves.

Therefore, it's used sparingly for those who know how to use it properly so that the opponent usually does not see it coming. Also, many still hold fear to Marth's Fsmash due to Melee. I would assume that if you're watching average to decent Marths, Fsmash is used to cause fear in the foe, usually resulting in them rolling away or spotdodging. Against certain opponents, this gives you breathing room and to set momentum to neutral should you have wanted that. Or even better, to set the momentum to your favor.

It's all in the power of conditioning?

Yeah, I think Meep said this before. You know, back in the day.

 

[Pierce7d]

Uh, I use Dsmash a lot.

A) I love spamming the crap outta Dancing Blade. This punishes side-step dodging, so my opponents then begin to attune themselves to Roll Dodging instead. I've now conditioned them to eat a Dsmash.

B) If you are very close to your opponent, on mid sized characters and above, Dsmash will hit with BOTH slices. This FREQUENTLY owns people shield the first slice, go in for a grab, and get their toes chopped off.

C) Though this is a situational mindgame, I find that Fair -> a close Uair to -> Dsmash should not result in a shield grab. I need to test this more though. Many times, when I pop my opponent into the air with a falling Uair, they air dodge and land right on my Dsmash.

D) I also find Tipper Dsmashes to have a better "natural spacing" meaning that I'm frequently in that position, and I don't have to set up the spacing myself, like the USmash

E) Even on a competitive level, ALMOST EVERYONE ALWAYS ROLL DODGES when they are cornered at the edge of a stage, ESPECIALLY FD. Dsmash ftw?

F) After getting that shield worn down by Dancing Blade or Shield Breaker, guess what hits under!?!!?<4Dsmash!?!?!?!?

It all has to do if your good with the mindgames son. I love this move. It comes out quick enough to catch people by surprise too. PLUS, Marth's Fsmash DISCOURAGES short-hop approaches, and people KNOW not challenge him in the air. It's just another awesome move to use after you condition your opponent.

All that being said, I still prefer Uptilt in many situations though. It hits behind Marth as well . . . possibly has the best horizontal trajectory in Marth's arsenal if you do it right, and vertically finishes as well otherwise. Just as quick, less lag. Doesn't shield poke though, and doesn't punish Roll Dodge, but hits airborne opponent's as well.

Dsmash is situational, but HIGHLY underused.

 

[adumbrodeus]

F-smash is better because it puts the opponents in a better edge-guarding position and it's not as risky if you whiff or it gets dodged. Sure, D-smash comes out faster, but if you don't know you're gonna hit, don't use it.

Generally I use it to punish people who roll behind me and lag that I can get an f-smash off in. I use it a lot more then most people. I use it more then most people, but you gotta know when to use it, otherwise you're screwed.

In general, go for dtilt or ftilt instead of smashes, unless you're sure you'll nail your opponent.

 

[Anth0ny]

Down smash should be incorporated in every Marth's game. It's a solid kill move, but it has lag, so you shouldn't over do it.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

I don't like D-Smash because...

Dancing Blade is just as fast and a heck of lot less punishable.

Dancing Blade, when it hits, deals almost the same amount of damage and sets my opponent up for an edgeguard/kill easier.


However, its extremely fast, so I use it punish rollers on a regular basis. It killz at decent %'s, so people tend to stop rolling in dumb places. xD

 

[PCHU]

I use everything.
And it all rocks.

 

[VietGeek]

I use everything.
And it all rocks.

Agreed. I think the only move I've never used is Bthrow. Is there any use for that thing? <_<

 

[Sosuke]

Because its weird. >_>

 

[PCHU]

Back in Melee, you could bthrow into fsmash.
But now....

 

[YagamiLight]

Agreed. I think the only move I've never used is Bthrow. Is there any use for that thing? <_<

I've never used it effectively. I suppose you can probably Bthrow to Bair, but don't quote me on this.

On topic, I use Dsmash quite a bit early match, if only since it punishes rollers and usually gets my first kill due to the ease at which it tippers.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Agreed. I think the only move I've never used is Bthrow. Is there any use for that thing? <_<

You can use it to position an opponent on a platform above you for a very easy tech chase.

What I can't really seem to find use for is his...never mind. All of Marth's moves are awesome.

 

[VietGeek]

You can use it to position an opponent on a platform above you for a very easy tech chase.

What I can't really seem to find use for is his...never mind. All of Marth's moves are awesome.

I used it on Toon Link and Snake on Battlefield and they don't land on the platforms (tried from 0-150%). ?_?

I tried those two because Toon Link is really floaty and Snake is really...fastfally? <_<

Educate me. pl0x.

 

[Pierce7d]

Dsmash = win, but don't spam it.

Bthrow < Dthrow

 

[VietGeek]

Dsmash = win, but don't spam it.

Bthrow < Dthrow

Indeed, which is why we're trying to creatively use Marth's Bthrow. Since you know, it's his only subpar move. I would say dash attack is pretty bad, but you can like kill them with it, so it's cool.

 

[Pierce7d]

Eh, Dash attack = underused edgeguard

Awesome range, great knockback, never stale (lol), and you slide into the edge for max range. Your opponent is lined up with the hitbox, but not able to shield as they're off the edge. It's the perfect time to employ it.

 

[The Marth]

Agreed. I think the only move I've never used is Bthrow. Is there any use for that thing? <_<

Nope ^_^

why you bthrow when you can dthrow?
Tho I guess you can use it to be all fancy cuz no mindgame application i dont think
And dash attack is easily punishable, so I use it only once or twice in a match. Adds some variety, since I usually approach with SHFair. need to break that habit...

 

[OmegaXF]

D-smash IMO is used as a killing move when my F-smash is to weak 2 do the job. The lag it has after a miss makes it questionable to use at times.

 

[BVA]

D-Smash is a very easy move to be punished for. I only use it if the opponent is predictable.

But at times d-smash does come through when you're edge guarding. Space it correctly and charge to trick the enemy and they will HAVE to eat it. D-Smash can end a persons life at probably 80%+. if tippered.

D-Smash finishes the job for f-smash but when I play I generally don't use fairs to f smash as it causes it to become a habit and f-smash doesn't finish the job at times.

Best bet and way to use a D-Smash is when you know for sure you can get it in and easy to use at edge guarding. Basically this sums it up.

 

[Hype]

I like down smash to kill light weights like MK. If you Fsmash metaknight off the map and it doesn't kill him hes really hard to edgeguard anyway.

 

[Cril]

now that i think about it, down smash is the only move i practically never use in marth's entire arsenal. and all this time i've been thinking that i employ all of marth's moves when i've completely forgotten about his down smash. i will be testing it out tomorow

 

[Cril]

Nope ^_^

why you bthrow when you can dthrow?
Tho I guess you can use it to be all fancy cuz no mindgame application i dont think
And dash attack is easily punishable, so I use it only once or twice in a match. Adds some variety, since I usually approach with SHFair. need to break that habit...

why d-throw when you can f-throw? its all the rage now plus its set up for nice down spikes near th ledge at low percents

 

[Pierce7d]

why d-throw when you can f-throw? its all the rage now plus its set up for nice down spikes near th ledge at low percents

A) Down throw causes improper DI, which leads to similar combos Fthrow leads to.

B) It's not as stale as Fthrow.

 

[jinofcoolnes]

I just use danceing blade over it.

It is a good killing move which saldly i need to put more in my playing style, as it tends to a bit of a tempo stoper.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Dsmash = win, but don't spam it.

Bthrow < Dthrow

Yes, I use it if I'm facing the wrong way and since it has OK knockback I can set up for more moves later.

 

[Pierce7d]

Yes, I use it if I'm facing the wrong way and since it has OK knockback I can set up for more moves later.

If you're facing the wrong way, turn around. Mastering pivot is crucial with Marth. Dsmsahing while an opponent is already behind you is worse than a telegraphed move. ANY Dodge or shield will prevent your foe from getting hit, and they have ages to see it coming, and ages to punish.

Now, if your opponent is very, very near you, this is good, as both slices will hit, and often the first one will chip at your opponent's shield and the second will hit.

 

[Cloudstealth]

Dsmash is in no way safe, If you want the suprise kill go for the UPB. It's just as unsafe, and kills at a lower percent. Even with Dsmash knockback on your opponent's shield they can still punish you. It does get the job done at a little above 120% though, and it has faster startup, but about the same range. So if your going for an Fsmash, because you know your opponent is gonna be there try Dsmashing once.

Never use it twice in a row, obviously your opponent will always be looking for it. If you think your opponent won't be shielding from the DB Grab setup, do DB Dsmash and get some good damage. Problem is, it has no combo potential.

About the Bthrow....Bthrow someone off the ledge and Fsmash, it's 100% air dodgeable. If your opponent is trying to DI to the stage or doesn't DI at all, you'll get a tip and laugh while they shoot off and die at 50% percent. It's worked in tournaments, I do nothing but Fthrow to Fair all match, and then I grab with my back facing the ledge. Bthrow Fsmash at 0-30% for alot of characters, and they get tipped and die a good percent of the time. They could have airdodged, but they were too busy DIing into me, expecting that Fthrow Fair like always.

Like mentioned earlier, I really can't seem to work in the dash attack. I'd rather stand still, than run in with that sloppy move.

 

[Rave925]

Leaves you a huge opening if you mess up the dsmash, which can seriously screw you up.

 

[Mighty_mo76]

Dsmash is just way to punishable and risky.

However, any move is a good move as long as you know your opp won't
expect it. That's the key.

Still, it's not that smart to use it a lot...

 

[__V]

It's like Ike's Dsmash. Not very effective. Only useful for people who spam dodges.

Instead, use jabs followed by an Fsmash. The time in between is minimal, and if they've been hit by the jab, they'll get hit by the smash.

 

[IDK]

Agreed. I think the only move I've never used is Bthrow. Is there any use for that thing? <_<

meh. kinda. you can b throw off the edge to dair sometimes. or at low percentages (might be the dthrow) but its an autotip on the fsmash if you go the opposite direction. i know you can do this with fthrow to fmash and it's inescapable (i think... sorry not thinking straight), but you can do the reverse one a little higher percentage. mostly for the spike though. even for that i use d throw a lot when facing the stage. facing away, i do f throw to jump> dair. (not short hop)

 

[digitalmaster287]

I use down smash frequently, but more than often, you get punished for it if you whiff it. Though, if its used in the right situations, it can be a really useful move. If the opponent is used to rolling behind you, the second hit of the down smash usually hits, and that is what I usually use it for. This is especially useful if you are invincible, because a lot of people have the tendency to roll behind. If you expect your opponent to roll behind you, but don't want to take the risk of turning around and doing the f-smash (leaving yourself wide open if they don't roll), you can do a down smash.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Ya, I use it when the opp. is really close if I'm facing the wrong direction like you said Pierce7d, not when they are far away. And if you spam this move you will get punished, i use it to mix my game up more and when the opp. is least expecting it.