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why is it 'acceptable' to see some characters 'spam' but not others?

Deoxyribonucleic_acid

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
58
This has been pissing me off ever since day one. When you watch a character such as say... falco, you see that they laser about 50 times per match. And don't even get me started on diddy's bananas. If they win, they get praise. But if I pick MK and use dsmash/nado/shuttle loop 3 times, I get called a spammer.

DISCLAIMER: I DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SPAMMERS. I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE *****ING ABOUT ONE CHARACTER'S SPAM AND PRAISING ANOTHER'S
 

Craeter

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
93
Location
FloMo/LBK, Texas
Falco's get ripped on for being campy/spammy too, if not way more than mk. Its just that most people hate mk because he's so easy to win with.
 

Craeter

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
93
Location
FloMo/LBK, Texas
Um, what about Diddy? That he 'spams?' He sure can mix it up with his nanners but I don't know how you could call him a spammy character.

This is Brawl, not Melee. Get good at powershielding and air dodging and 'spamming' shouldn't bother you, tell that to whoever plays you or that Falco.
 

Merce

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
57
Yeah. It comes down to the fact that on lower levels of play, meta knight can almost mindlessly spam and out perform someone putting a conscious effort into a character whose "spamming" is less effective. Entry level falco's at least have to short hop, time their pew pew's right, and do a few b reversals without accidentally over b'ing off the stage. No one said that that particular falco play style is merit-worthy.

Meta knight is just painfully easy to be mediocre with without much innovation or understanding of the game. (not necessarily implying anything about higher levels)

But go ahead, spam away. Smash is all about doing the right move(ment) at the right time, so if you really think that whatever you're doing is the best option, go for it. Eventually you just might get punished by someone who sees your pattern of play, and you'll have to adjust. But probably not, because every option is a pretty alright option with Mk.

And I certainly wouldn't consider diddy's banana's "spamming." It requires more thought than I assume you are giving credence to. It's like saying ganondorf spams hard-hitting attacks. It's an obvious play style of the character archetype. Just as metaknight is supposed to be fast and a **** good swordsmen. Which is why many of his attacks are a decent option. Which is why he is simply better than most of cast. Which is why people ***** about him.

We cool?
 

AnDaLe

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Messages
2,373
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IL
sum it up: we like to see underrated characters win.
 

The Sauce Boss

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
766
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
I actually think this thread is really interesting. The community definitely holds a double-standard when it comes to spam. This basically reaffirms the idea that all "spam", even metaknight spam, is a viable means to play and should not be looked down upon by any serious player.
 

Beam Sword of Death

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 1, 2009
Messages
46
Location
Grand Forks, North Dakota AKA The Frozen Tundra
While 'spam' may exist, you can't stop it from happening, and essentially, nothing is really 'spam' in smash.
there are only so many moves you can use and timing is everything, so basically 'spamming' is a non-issue.
Just because you lose to someone who 'spams' is not a matter of them maybe abusing a certain move, it's that you couldn't stop or counter it.
Those are my thoughts on the matter.
 

Kitamerby

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
5,729
Location
Las Vegas
I actually think this thread is really interesting. The community definitely holds a double-standard when it comes to spam. This basically reaffirms the idea that all "spam", even metaknight spam, is a viable means to play and should not be looked down upon by any serious player.
This only applies if the "spam" actually works in competitive play, though... Otherwise, it's called just being silly. =D
 

IsmaR

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sum it up: we like to see underrated characters win.
coughSamuscough

The way I see it, the more people see a "spammer" for a certain character, the more people hate said character because more people spam with them. That, or people just can't get past them/are annoyed by them/hate them.
 

Deoxyribonucleic_acid

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
58
This only applies if the "spam" actually works in competitive play, though... Otherwise, it's called just being silly. =D
When I beat people on the ladder with MK, they complain about it and mindlessly say that I spam dsmash/b/ up-b. Sometimes even when I try my hardest not to spam any of those moves. but call a someone with a much spammier main such as pikachu, falco, or toon link a good player. BS pisses me off.
 

'V'

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
1,377
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Baton Rouge, LA
Spamming is just one of those numerous variables in smash that people don't really like to see, especially in the hands of Meta Knight these days. You'll get used to it.
 

~Firefly~

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
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Going all-in with the grime
I've had people complain that I spammed them before. That doesn't seem too strange, unless you know that I'm a Yoshi main. >.<

Projectile "spam" is really mainly about forcing an approach in this game. If my opponent wants to stay on the other side of the stage and try to powershield my eggs all day, so be it. Just don't complain that I'm using my projectile for its intended purpose. >.>

This applies to all projectiles; if your opponent has a better one, you have to approach. Any kind of spam is simply using a move repeatedly because your opponent can't counter it. If it's a character issue, know that it's your responsibility for choosing a character that works for you, and if you can't do anything in a given situation, it's your fault.


:005:
 

RyuReiatsu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
408
Well, you're pretty much talking about the wrong characters...
See also: Wolf's Smashes, Kirby's B-Air, etc.

*Hands up*
 

'V'

Smash Lord
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Jun 28, 2009
Messages
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Baton Rouge, LA
If you use a lot of bananas, then it is spam. Spam is indeed part of some characters' fighting style though. I'll give it that much.
 

HelpR

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 18, 2008
Messages
585
Location
queens/NYC
Well.. the whole idea of spamming is really a noob's excuse for losing. at least it is half the time.

To be honest, the entire impetus of Diddy Kong's game style is the bananas, but that hardly constitutes spamming, keeping an important asset around.

MK is deeply ostracized with good reason, most because most mid tier play appears to consist of spamming of 'dair, nado, fair, and dsmash' unfortunately, these happen to be MK's biggest assets, but since he's the top of the top, we gotta find some reason for bringing him down a notch.

this whole talk of spamming is just silly.
 

JOE!

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Oct 5, 2008
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Dedham, MA
spam IMO is when an idiot player is Fox, and spends the match running away and just laserin you, and keep it up until you'r elike 999% r something, continues for a minute (poor slow character) then finally remembers they gotta kill you
 

Beam Sword of Death

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Grand Forks, North Dakota AKA The Frozen Tundra
I do. Especially since I get critcized for spamming while diddy mains get praise for it.
why do you care if you get criticized for spamming? like it really matters. play the game how you want to play it. if that person has a problem with it, that's their problem.

I don't really spam that much, but if I fight someone spamming, that gives me more reason to beat them. But like some have said before, spam is apart of some characters' style.
 

REL38

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Laughing while sayin' "idunno" with heav
Well, you're pretty much talking about the wrong characters...
See also: Wolf's Smashes, Kirby's B-Air, etc.

*Hands up*
Hey, Kirby's Bair isn't spamming; even if I do use it too many times in a fight >_>

Characters with projectiles like lasers who spam are frustrating to some as they can't really counter what they're doing.

Characters with usable projectiles like Nanners are frustrating to some as it usually makes more damage, but aren't as bad as they can also be used by you.

Characters who spam moves like Tornado or F-Smash are frustrating to some as they either build damage or create knockback, but aren't really bad as they can be countered and punished.

People just complain too much sometimes. I use thundershock 3 times and I can be accused of spamming.
 

jumpman9793

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 13, 2009
Messages
94
Location
Arkansas
While 'spam' may exist, you can't stop it from happening, and essentially, nothing is really 'spam' in smash.
there are only so many moves you can use and timing is everything, so basically 'spamming' is a non-issue.
Just because you lose to someone who 'spams' is not a matter of them maybe abusing a certain move, it's that you couldn't stop or counter it.
Those are my thoughts on the matter.
I totally agree with you. I hate when people call Falcos or Pits spammers because the use their neutral b moves constantly. If your the one that cant figure out to jump towards them and hit them with a dair or something, then you shouldnt be mocking the other player.
 

Deoxyribonucleic_acid

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
58
You can argue about this for any move.
Exactly. I could say "dair, nado, dsmash is MK's style get over it"

Most diddy players end up throwing bananas about 50 times per match. Sounds like spam to me. even if he does mix it up between his bananas, he still ends up using one every 3 moves or less. People need to stop making up euphemisms for diddy's naner spam
 

Apollo$

Smash Ace
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
622
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Spamming is legit, if someone johns because they lost to it then too bad. Spamming Nanners, Pikmen, grenades, din's fire, needles, fire balls, lasers, bikes, winning, grabs and etc :p
 

Raikou_Cypher

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 26, 2009
Messages
64
Location
5th circle of Hell
I totally agree with you. I hate when people call Falcos or Pits spammers because the use their neutral b moves constantly. If your the one that cant figure out to jump towards them and hit them with a dair or something, then you shouldnt be mocking the other player.
lololol Ganon vs. Falco, jump towards them with dairs? Think about how ridiculous that sounds for a moment.

counterexample to most posts in this thread: I'm playing as Ganon against an mk. He has around 75% tacked onto their first stock while I still haven't taken any damage. He starts using one move, his nado. After crazy spam, I have 50%.

In the above example, it's pretty clear that the Ganon player is a better player in general than the mk player. The only way the fail player has been hitting the good player is with his nado spam. This is the kind of spam that I, personally, hate. When your opponent thinks the following, "WOW, somehow my attacks aren't working, so I'll just start spamming this until I hit." This is worse when people jump on the tier bandwagon and main mk...

The reason it's "ok" for some characters to "spam" is that they're not spamming. What do you think would happen to falco if he had no lasers? If diddy had no nanners? A character like falco's playstyle mostly relies on his lasers. Mk has how many bland sword attacks available? When an mk fights with 3 or 4 moves, it's called spam because the other player is too terrible to use their brain. Mk spamming is why mediocre players beat good players who aren't using mk. I can use mk just as well as any of my secondaries, or my main. It's easier to win too. Instead of winning with low% 1 stock or high% 2 stock I'll have a low% 2 stock, sometimes even a 3 stock if I gimp some less fortunate low tier character. I've never practiced playing as mk. Who needs practice with mk? You can pick him up with just a basic grasp of the game and win against more knowledgeable, more experienced, more skilled players.
 

swordgard

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
5,503
Location
Canada
This has been pissing me off ever since day one. When you watch a character such as say... falco, you see that they laser about 50 times per match. And don't even get me started on diddy's bananas. If they win, they get praise. But if I pick MK and use dsmash/nado/shuttle loop 3 times, I get called a spammer.

DISCLAIMER: I DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SPAMMERS. I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE *****ING ABOUT ONE CHARACTER'S SPAM AND PRAISING ANOTHER'S


Spams easy to beat, no problem with me there.
 

InfiniteBlaze

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 11, 2009
Messages
110
lololol Ganon vs. Falco, jump towards them with dairs? Think about how ridiculous that sounds for a moment.

counterexample to most posts in this thread: I'm playing as Ganon against an mk. He has around 75% tacked onto their first stock while I still haven't taken any damage. He starts using one move, his nado. After crazy spam, I have 50%.

In the above example, it's pretty clear that the Ganon player is a better player in general than the mk player. The only way the fail player has been hitting the good player is with his nado spam. This is the kind of spam that I, personally, hate. When your opponent thinks the following, "WOW, somehow my attacks aren't working, so I'll just start spamming this until I hit." This is worse when people jump on the tier bandwagon and main mk...

The reason it's "ok" for some characters to "spam" is that they're not spamming. What do you think would happen to falco if he had no lasers? If diddy had no nanners? A character like falco's playstyle mostly relies on his lasers. Mk has how many bland sword attacks available? When an mk fights with 3 or 4 moves, it's called spam because the other player is too terrible to use their brain. Mk spamming is why mediocre players beat good players who aren't using mk. I can use mk just as well as any of my secondaries, or my main. It's easier to win too. Instead of winning with low% 1 stock or high% 2 stock I'll have a low% 2 stock, sometimes even a 3 stock if I gimp some less fortunate low tier character. I've never practiced playing as mk. Who needs practice with mk? You can pick him up with just a basic grasp of the game and win against more knowledgeable, more experienced, more skilled players.
Shut up scrub, if it works, do it.
 

InfiniteBlaze

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 11, 2009
Messages
110
And another thing. I hate how some people think they have the right to spam just because their main is low tier, and criticize high tier mains for doing it.****ing hypocrites.
 

Raikou_Cypher

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 26, 2009
Messages
64
Location
5th circle of Hell
uhh...approaching with dair doesn't work...

and it's dumb / no one likes it because it's not very fun to play against people who play that way, as well as a demonstration of the astronomical fail level of that player.

Why would I spam nado, when it's no fun, even if it works?

edit: seems like you're angry or something. You shouldn't be. It's a game.
 

DQP

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
610
Location
Anchorage, AK
i see falco spam blasters, mk spam aerials, and even ice climbers spam wobbling. i'm a pit main, and being accustomed to using the bow often, i can't say i'm against spamming. although i must say that i was pretty ticked off when i was beaten by a wobbler in a tourney.
 

BSP

Smash Legend
Joined
May 23, 2009
Messages
10,246
Location
Louisiana
uhh...approaching with dair doesn't work...

and it's dumb / no one likes it because it's not very fun to play against people who play that way, as well as a demonstration of the astronomical fail level of that player.

Why would I spam nado, when it's no fun, even if it works?

edit: seems like you're angry or something. You shouldn't be. It's a game.
Unless you're doing friendlies, it's a 'play to win' mindset, anything legal goes, use whatever you have, you get the point. I'm not saying it's a favorable thing, but most people like to win, so they will use whatever is available.
 

FaWa

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Messages
121
Location
New Jersey
I don't really mind it unless it's a Pika thunder juggle.

I have to convince myself to not Wobble the entire game when playing ICs sometimes. It's so tempting...lol.
 
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