Why A Tier List Is Not For Brawl!!

[Umby]

And the fact that Pikachu has an advantage over Jigglypuff is a reason to use Pikachu instead of Jigglypuff?

 

[Yuna]

i never felt like the tier list was useful at all. i dont know if any of you have seen phannas matchup chart http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=92025 but i think that was the best way to learn who is good against who is melee and it think that would be the best way to do it in brawl too

The tierlist is a simple chart of generalities. The existence of a tierlist does not preclude the existence of an individual matchup chart. A tierlist is for easy reference. If you want a deeper one, you consult the individual matchup chart.

 

[7ak]

Yuna is annoying. tier lists.

 

[nintengod]

tires don exits

No, I disagree. As long as there are different movesets in Brawl, there will always be different levels. Whether or not the differences are small, there will be differences, and that's what creates tiers. If everyone becomes high-tier in Brawl, there will be sub-divisions of high-tier created.

Also, the fact that each character plays differently is indeed an issue. Some traits are naturally more imortant than others in Brawl. Although the characters have been balanced (generally), you need a certain amount of knockback to work with a certain amount of speed to have a good character. What traits are most important have yet to be seen. But there will be a tier list of some kind, because there are differences, and they create imbalance. Period.

although tier lists will exist simply because ppl are ***** and want to ruin the game, i dont believe brawls list will be anywhere NEAR melees kind of list
even if the best faced the worst the worst would still have like a 35%+ chance of beating the best if they both had the same experience in the game (same person vsing himself)
in melee, mewtwo and pichu were the worst, if they faced say fox or marth, they would only have like a 2% chance of winning
brawl is several times better than melee in character balancing, ive played brawl, and ive beaten a few marths/diddys/toonlinks/wolfs

they ARENT as high tier as ppl are saying, high tier in brawl is more like "im by a margin slightly better than a normal character" -.-

 

[Mizar]

Stop trolling.

Lol, its working though

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Thank you Maximo for quoting, and mocking my words, but not listening to them.

Again I say, If you have all these social realations, play with them. A tier list is designed for those who wish to persue a higher level of game-play, which you obviously do not want to get involved with. Without tiers, it's much harder to understand the game you're playing at a competative level.

What you're essentially proposing Maximo, is the banning of information. Much like a Holy Church burns books (don't laugh, it's happened) like Catcher in the Rye and 1984 (both masterpieces), you are telling us that creating a tier list is bad and should not happen, becasue of your made-up situations.

Why don't we just stop the flow of information all together? Explain to me one more time what your issue is, for us all, clearly and accurately. I don't think I'm the only one here who doesn't understand you.

Let's here it.

 

[Dogysamich]

Anything is competitive, you don't actually have to make a tierlist for it. :\

Welp, like i said in another thread.

if ANYTHING is competitive, then help me break Pocket Fighter into the competitive fighting scene.

While we're at it, lets pick up Budokai 3; **** that tenkaiichi ****. And **** those garbage naruto games.

 

[Umby]

Dogy I wuv u <3<3<3<3

 

[Vro]

lawl tires don exist.

I can't believe people can dispute the fact that tiers exist. I can understand disputing tier placements, but saying that characters with different properties and moves can't be relatively compared as better or worse is dumb.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Tiers do exist, if not in character than in game-play method.

 

[ThePurpleCobra]

And the fact that Pikachu has an advantage over Jigglypuff is a reason to use Pikachu instead of Jigglypuff?

no its a reason to use pikachu vs jigglypuff. even though jiggly is high on the list pika has a huge advantage. matchups like this are what makes a tier list useless

 

[susu_atari]

This guy isn't labelled a n00b for nothing...

Of course there's a tier list. Every competitive multiplayer game with different characters has a tier list.

 

[_Riot_]

I know this may get many people up in arms, but I strongly feel that a Tier list is simply irrelevant for Brawl.

Melee was a fast paced fighter based on good recovery and making your opponent fall short of grabbing the ledge. The tier was based on which characters could shfflana the best, chain the best, and simply, keep the opponent away from the ledge. It ended with Sheik, Fox, Falco, and Marth dominating the game, and the entire metagame became backwash of the same techniques over and over again.

In Brawl, however, recovery is barely an issue. Most characters have a sufficient amount of recovery to almost ALWAYS save them if the attack doesn't instakill. The loss of wave dashing and l-cancelling and a slower...more airy engine meant more strategic gameplay, as dodges count for everything and speed is based on how fast u can dodge and pull of an attack. Combo's are much more difficult to pull off and more rewarding.

While in Melee each character was forced to play similarly to succeed, Brawl promotes individuality. Meta Knight thrives on his fast swordsmanship and while Ike dominates on his slow heavy attack style. However, Meta Knight could never play the slow, heavy, smash attack based attack style that Ike plays, and vise-versa.

Characters like Kirby and Bowser have been balanced out, and although slow, clunky characters like Ganondorf have gotten even slower (Bowser has sped up though...) his boosted attack power really makes a difference in Brawls new engine.

It's all balanced out and it all makes sense. Players make new play styles based on the character and none of them play the same. A tier is meaningless because an extremely skilled Ganondorf player can destroy a Pit fighter. I have yet to lose to any Marth while playing as Lucario, and I was unable to play Pit well, but I've seen good players use him to the fullest and still be beaten by a better player using Bowser or Dedede. It's all balanced out. You need to understand your character and you need to have skill. Practice makes perfect.

EDIT: After a quick glance at the tier thread, everyones choices for top tier is very similar. This proves my theory even more

~Remian

This is probably the 30th post ive seen from people who have just joined the boards in 2008 about how "tiers shouldnt exist" and its blowing my mind. Learn to play any fighting game on a tourny level and you'll understand. Considering your post thoughts i know for a fact that you dont play on a technically high level. Thats fine, nothing wrong with that, just dont go around saying your thoughts on a game when you yourself arnt fully aware of what the games about.

 

[Dark Sonic]

no its a reason to use pikachu vs jigglypuff. even though jiggly is high on the list pika has a huge advantage. matchups like this are what makes a tier list useless

The tier list just says which characters are overall better. The way that we do this is by seeing how highly they place in tournaments (since that's our best source of statistical information. It's not 100% accurate, but it's the best we've got).

Pikachu also fares badly in many more matchups than Jigglypuff, so even though Pikachu has an advantage individually, he/she's still worse overall.

Individual character matchups are not what the tier list is about. It's showing who does the best overall against the rest of the characters.

 

[Bodknocks]

Where there is diversity, there will be tiers. That will never change in competitive gaming. Different games have different tiers though. For all we know the difference between the best character in Brawl and the worst is as narrow as the difference between Fox and Marth in Melee. That's pretty implausible, but I think the "no tiers" noobs should at least try arguing from that approach...

 

[PXG]

Of course there will be a tier list. However I do think that a characters placement in the list won't be as absolute as they were in Melee. Brawl is more about match ups and spacing and orientation, rather than pure speed. There are exploits and some broken areas (DeDeDe and Toon Link) but it feels like a much more balanced game.

 

[CloudGer]

There will always be tiers, in every fighting game.
Fortunately skill is more important than the character you're using.

 

[Azuro]

Welp, like i said in another thread.

if ANYTHING is competitive, then help me break Pocket Fighter into the competitive fighting scene.

While we're at it, lets pick up Budokai 3; **** that tenkaiichi ****. And **** those garbage naruto games.

May I ask have you even played Budokai 3? Just asking.

As for the tiers, they're gonna exist wherever there is difference. To argue against that show pure lack of understanding of competitive gaming.

 

[MaximoSmasher]

Thank you Maximo for quoting, and mocking my words, but not listening to them.

Again I say, If you have all these social realations, play with them. A tier list is designed for those who wish to persue a higher level of game-play, which you obviously do not want to get involved with. Without tiers, it's much harder to understand the game you're playing at a competative level.

What you're essentially proposing Maximo, is the banning of information. Much like a Holy Church burns books (don't laugh, it's happened) like Catcher in the Rye and 1984 (both masterpieces), you are telling us that creating a tier list is bad and should not happen, becasue of your made-up situations.

Why don't we just stop the flow of information all together? Explain to me one more time what your issue is, for us all, clearly and accurately. I don't think I'm the only one here who doesn't understand you.

Let's here it.

Actually i was just agreeing with you, way to be a baby about it. And books and little fact sheets about videogames are two very diffrent things. I think if you WERE to make a tierlist it should be a graph of who is best to who is worst at what, ( IE. Lucas would score high on projectiles, lower on speed, ect, ect ) ...I think a list of people in a line, of who is better than who is not enough information, insulting to the game creators, basically tells you how to play the game that has multiple ways to play ( favoring only speedy characters ) and a sloppy presentation that just tells noobs what character to pick.

PS. the word is "HEAR", not "Here".

Welp, like i said in another thread.

if ANYTHING is competitive, then help me break Pocket Fighter into the competitive fighting scene.

While we're at it, lets pick up Budokai 3; **** that tenkaiichi ****. And **** those garbage naruto games.

Anything can be competitive, even those games you've listed. PS. Alot of people think its stupid you play smash bros competitively, maybe you shouldn't be so hasty with your words about what isn't competitive.

 

[RBinator]

Actually i was just agreeing with you, way to be a baby about it. And books and little fact sheets about videogames are two very diffrent things. I think if you WERE to make a tierlist it should be a graph of who is best to who is worst at what, ( IE. Lucas would score high on projectiles, lower on speed, ect, ect ) ...I think a list of people in a line, of who is better than who is not enough information, insulting to the game creators, basically tells you how to play the game that has multiple ways to play ( favoring only speedy characters ) and a sloppy presentation that just tells noobs what character to pick.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but a tier list shows who's better overall at the current metagame level of play when both players are of equal skill level. That's all a tier list is meant to show, it isn't suppose to go into all sorts of details. That's what further reading beyond the tier list is about. As it has been said before, a tier list does not tell people who to play as. I mained Doc in Melee, who I believed was 9th on the tier list, before and after I saw the list. n00bs who pick the character on top of the tier list hoping for an easy win will still get owned if they lack the skill to go with the character. This is misuse of information that has been talked about in this topic.

Based on many of your posts in this topic, it seems as if you want the whole idea of a tier list to be dropped. Again, if you look at the tier list as telling you how to play the game, your not looking at it correctly. It can help to show where your character(s) stands overall to the rest of the cast. Certain Melee pros didn't stop using their characters because they were low on the tier list and I don't see, for example, someone that mains Yoshi to suddenly drop him if they really want to play as the character that much.

 

[MaximoSmasher]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but a tier list shows who's better overall at the current metagame level of play when both players are of equal skill level. That's all a tier list is meant to show, it isn't suppose to go into all sorts of details. That's what further reading beyond the tier list is about. As it has been said before, a tier list does not tell people who to play as. I mained Doc in Melee, who I believed was 9th on the tier list, before and after I saw the list. n00bs who pick the character on top of the tier list hoping for an easy win will still get owned if they lack the skill to go with the character. This is misuse of information that has been talked about in this topic.

Based on many of your posts in this topic, it seems as if you want the whole idea of a tier list to be dropped. Again, if you look at the tier list as telling you how to play the game, your not looking at it correctly. It can help to show where your character(s) stands overall to the rest of the cast. Certain Melee pros didn't stop using their characters because they were low on the tier list and I don't see, for example, someone that mains Yoshi to suddenly drop him if they really want to play as the character that much.

Yeah, I know what you're trying to tell me, the tier list isn't going to stop me from using my characters, and I could care less where my character stands...Still, it's like taking a great novel with alot of complexities and summerizing it in one sentence, often inaccurately at first...And I find it distasteful.

Still I know you guys get use out of it, I'm just defending why I don't think people should bother with the tier list...Especcially this early.

 

[Enshoku]

Yeah, I know what you're trying to tell me, the tier list isn't going to stop me from using my characters, and I could care less where my character stands...Still, it's like taking a great novel with alot of complexities and summarizing it in one sentence, often inaccurately at first...And I find it distasteful.

Still I know you guys get use out of it, I'm just defending why I don't think people should bother with the tier list...Especially this early.

aren't you the same person who was arguing with yuna? ...anyways, people will always do what they want, as soon as they can, if they can. A tier list will be made, I will ignore it, people will complain, mods will say STFU, everyone's happy, no-one gets sued.

 

[Umby]

Yeah, I know what you're trying to tell me, the tier list isn't going to stop me from using my characters, and I could care less where my character stands...Still, it's like taking a great novel with alot of complexities and summerizing it in one sentence, often inaccurately at first...And I find it distasteful.

Still I know you guys get use out of it, I'm just defending why I don't think people should bother with the tier list...Especcially this early.

No one is making a tier list this early. It's all still in speculation. It'll probably be a couple of years before one is even made. Not to mention, somethings are going to be inaccurate on the first shot, but that's simply trial and error.

 

[«[S.M.A.S.H]»]

This thread is amusing enough to end an almost-five-year refrainment from posting. I read it from beginning to end.

Tier lists do annoy me. They're comparative to music charts. Sure, some people look to the music charts and allow them to dictate their taste in music, regardless of whether they genuinely enjoy the artists or not. Does that make said artists better? Does that make everyone who listens to said artists a sellout chart *****? The characters make the tier lists; the tier lists do not make the characters. This point can't be stressed enough: it is all dependent upon the player holding the controller, be it a Wiimote-and-Nunchuck or a modified Wavebird with an ultra-sensitive L/R and joystick.

Yes, I use Falco. Why? I'm comfortable with the way he plays. I've never consulted a tier list to help me make a decision on which character to use (not that there's anything wrong with that). I'm uncomfortable with "wavedashing", and until a couple of years ago, didn't even know what it was. I spent dozens hours learning the ins-and-outs of Super Smash Bros. on my own, since the original game when I was using Fox. I came to the same conclusions about characters that ended up on tier lists.

"People should figure out everything on their own"? Why try to discover everything on your own if you can easily read up on it? Why have schools at all if students can just read books and discover how science works on their own?

Yuna is correct. It is transferring of information from one to another for the greater good of the community instead of megalomaniacally hording it to oneself. It is memetics.

If tier lists bother you for the reason that scrub players allow them to dictate which character to choose without any actual skill to back them up, trounce them. Select the low-or-mid-tier character whom you so vehemently enjoy and defeat said tier-gargoyle scrub. If your (and to some extent, my) arguments hold any water, they'll lack any actual skill and will lose regardless of what character they select (contrary to their belief that high-tier characters will compensate for their ineptitude). Like some have said, the tier list of Super Smash Bros. Brawl is going to be much less defined than that of Super Smash Bros. Melee. The lines between tier levels are going to be even more blurred and the dependence upon your adeptness at the game is going to be more important than ever.

I swear, some of these Super Smash Bros. arguments can get even more heated and futile than arguments about metal (over what is "kvlt" and "troo").

Yuna, I really must applaud your tenacity. Although I disagree with you on some aspects and agree with MaximoSmasher on others (especially his opinion on stage selections), you possess strong debating skills and place a high value on facts and logic. Similar to Super Smash Bros. and the importance of the skill of the player holding the controller, a point I agree with can falter with someone with a weak argument behind it, and even a point I disagree with can enlighten me with someone with a strong argument behind it.

I am taking my Smash Ball and going home.

 

[goodkid]

Why is the tier list such a debated discussion? I bet most of the debate is based on misunderstanding. People want to believe other things and make the tier list something that its not. The tier list is just a list on who does the best in high-level tournament matches.

 

[Mama]

Yeah, I know what you're trying to tell me, the tier list isn't going to stop me from using my characters, and I could care less where my character stands...Still, it's like taking a great novel with alot of complexities and summerizing it in one sentence, often inaccurately at first...And I find it distasteful.

Still I know you guys get use out of it, I'm just defending why I don't think people should bother with the tier list...Especcially this early.

Thats a nice analogy actually but the tier list is more than summarizing. Its more like critiquing. Setting a standard with novels and then rating the novel in a bunch of different areas. You don't have to agree with the reviews but they do affect things. Novels with high reviews will receive awards while other novels will not. That said there have been books that were not appreciated until much later.

The tier list isn't something that dictates what character to use. Its something that rates a characters ability to excel in the Metagame. Say the current standard is a defensive standpoint. The characters that are able to punish shielders and/or approach best in the most diverse situations will land a higher place on the tier list than characters that don't. Lower tier characters may have an advantage over certain characters but they're aren't as diversified as higher tier characters. Which is why there can be a low tier character that counters a higher tier character but does not sit in the high tier.

 

[adumbrodeus]

no its a reason to use pikachu vs jigglypuff. even though jiggly is high on the list pika has a huge advantage. matchups like this are what makes a tier list useless

Ummm, no.

Tier lists are composits of a character's strength relative to the rest of the cast, so being higher on the tier list means Jiggs is better against the average character then pikachu.


Higher tier =/= will win in every case, and nobody pretended it did, it's just an aggregate of strengths and weaknesses.


Counter-picks don't render the tiers useless, just adds depth to character selection, because tiers were never meant tell individual match-ups, just amortized games.

 

[Dogysamich]

May I ask have you even played Budokai 3? Just asking.

As for the tiers, they're gonna exist wherever there is difference. To argue against that show pure lack of understanding of competitive gaming.

hell yeah i've played budokai 3, it's the only DBZ game i like.

what game i picked doesnt matter as much as the fact that it's a game with no competitive scene.

 

[Mercury]

Tier lists are basically a "go-to" guide that gives you a very simple answer to questions that take a lot of calucalation. They are only used FOR tournaments because they are created BY tournaments.

On any given day, character A should be able to beat character B. Tier lists do not care about this at all.

A highly ranked character on a tier list will have a quality like this:

Character A's moves put character B's move at a disadvantage, as with, B's, C's, D's, E's, and F's, who are also considered characters with a special move set that let's them evenly combat most characters. What makes Character A so much better is that A has an advantage over most high tier characters, and on top of that, his deficits are not very exploitable unless the enemy picks character G, who happens to be a very bad pick against most characters but does surprisingly well against A, and maybe 1 or 2 others.

It's not about how "good" or "bad" a character is. There is no official #1 and #2 character in the game. The only noticeable differences between top tier characters and bottom tier characters are that top tier characters have a much higher chance at winning a tournament should they be picked every single time versus a low tier character, which for some reason within the individual game, low tier characters just have the wrong/unnecessary moves to combat most characters, especially ones that often win tournaments. This is done either by comparing top placements and which characters were chosen to vs other characters and how often which character won, or by heavy analysis of individual movesets, usually the former.

When you just bring up any 1 match up, and pit Character A vs. Character G, and Character G wins by a long shot, it changes very little in the tier list so long as characters B, C, D, E, and F, who are all just below A in the tier list completely dominate G, and A beats all of them.


This is why I kinda laugh every time I see someone who is clearly a casual player complain about tier lists. It doesn't concern casual players at all, and they completely misunderstand the point of creating one in the first place.

 

[St. Viers]

@ Maximo: Tiers-whores are a joke. At the highest level of play tiers they matter, because it's the highest level of play that actually means that the characters with the "advantages" (fox and marth and falco, etc) will win more often. At the level most people play at, it doesn't matter who they pick--if they are a worse player they will lose.

So don't sweat it, even if people come up with a brawl tier list. Pwn the noobs that immediately go high tier just because of the lists, and laugh at them. I mained doc in melee (although I had a decent fox and sheik), and beating fox/marth users was just priceless, because if you don't have the skill to exploit their advantages, well...^_^ It may get annoying, but maybe you can then convince them to pick people based on how they play, not where they place.

Despite what I just said, I see the tier list as necessary. It provides information. And although you may not like how some people use it, that isn't a reason not to have it.

It's like saying "abstinence only" is the only thing you should teach about in sex ed, because if you go into other methods of birth control teens will be more likely to have sex. When in reality what happens is they are unaware of other things, but still go and do it, but without enough knowledge.

In melee, I know people who used the tier list and picked high/top tier characters (1). However, I also know people who said "screw it, I like x"(~6) and even people who picked lower tier characters to spite the tier list. (me) They all had the knowledge of the tier list, it's just they used the knowledge in different ways.

I know that you understand the reason behind tier lists and all (people should try actually reading your posts... <_<), but you want there to be a line between casual and competitive gaming. That's totally cool; I respect that. However, you have to then respect how I choose to play which is to use every game as a chance to improve something. In Brawl, I haven't used every character yet (I don't own the game, but I've spent maybe 30+ hours playing it with my friends) Already the person who used falco in melee is using Ike. The people who played who they wanted are using the characters they think are cool. I'm using Koopa because I think he rocks, but I'm trying to get a feel for everyone.

If you wish to keep them separate, then when you play online, make the game and have others join you. Pick the fun stages, have items on, whatever you want. But if you join another's game, respect their decision they make--even if it is FD, with items off...
...and they are using Ike

@Yuna: good debating skillz. Wish I could debate like you... ^__^

@most other people: Chill out. Read people's posts, don't read some parts and ignore the rest. If you did this, you'd maybe see where Maximo is coming from. It's a game, competitive or not, so don't be such ****s. Also, in case some of you didn't notice, the OP posted saying he had misunderstood what a tier list was, so the people who continued talking about that should read better ...

 

[OrlanduEX]

Tier lists are basically a "go-to" guide that gives you a very simple answer to questions that take a lot of calucalation. They are only used FOR tournaments because they are created BY tournaments.

On any given day, character A should be able to beat character B. Tier lists do not care about this at all.

A highly ranked character on a tier list will have a quality like this:

Character A's moves put character B's move at a disadvantage, as with, B's, C's, D's, E's, and F's, who are also considered characters with a special move set that let's them evenly combat most characters. What makes Character A so much better is that A has an advantage over most high tier characters, and on top of that, his deficits are not very exploitable unless the enemy picks character G, who happens to be a very bad pick against most characters but does surprisingly well against A, and maybe 1 or 2 others.

It's not about how "good" or "bad" a character is. There is no official #1 and #2 character in the game. The only noticeable differences between top tier characters and bottom tier characters are that top tier characters have a much higher chance at winning a tournament should they be picked every single time versus a low tier character, which for some reason within the individual game, low tier characters just have the wrong/unnecessary moves to combat most characters, especially ones that often win tournaments. This is done either by comparing top placements and which characters were chosen to vs other characters and how often which character won, or by heavy analysis of individual movesets, usually the former.

When you just bring up any 1 match up, and pit Character A vs. Character G, and Character G wins by a long shot, it changes very little in the tier list so long as characters B, C, D, E, and F, who are all just below A in the tier list completely dominate G, and A beats all of them.


This is why I kinda laugh every time I see someone who is clearly a casual player complain about tier lists. It doesn't concern casual players at all, and they completely misunderstand the point of creating one in the first place.

Quoted for f***ing truth. Great post.

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

I personally don't think Brawl needs a tier list. It looks so stupid to look at the Melee tier list, and see on average 4 characters per tier or something. It's ridiculous. It's not like the severely unbalanced Pokemon where there are over 490 playable characters, this is a relatively balanced game, with only 35 characters.

 

[bigcman]

See this video for the tier list. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsZlhe0gVAA&feature=user

See 2:00.

TR4Q!

 

[MaximoSmasher]

@ Maximo: Tiers-whores are a joke. At the highest level of play tiers they matter, because it's the highest level of play that actually means that the characters with the "advantages" (fox and marth and falco, etc) will win more often. At the level most people play at, it doesn't matter who they pick--if they are a worse player they will lose.

So don't sweat it, even if people come up with a brawl tier list. Pwn the noobs that immediately go high tier just because of the lists, and laugh at them. I mained doc in melee (although I had a decent fox and sheik), and beating fox/marth users was just priceless, because if you don't have the skill to exploit their advantages, well...^_^ It may get annoying, but maybe you can then convince them to pick people based on how they play, not where they place.

How do you nuetralize the playing field for who has advantages? Even on Final D certaincharacters have the advantage.

Yeah I know, you should see the suprise on peoples faces when I take out marth/falco/fox with ness. Still I didn't pick him because of the tierlist. I picked him because he was the most fun to play as, then i backpeddled and played the game, and REALLY liked Ness.

(I still like Lucas from Mother 3 better, AMAZING story <3 )

In melee, I know people who used the tier list and picked high/top tier characters (1). However, I also know people who said "screw it, I like x"(~6) and even people who picked lower tier characters to spite the tier list. (me) They all had the knowledge of the tier list, it's just they used the knowledge in different ways.

Well, maybe i'm a nerd for it...but I have love for all the characters, not based on abilities, speed or combos, but for personal histories, styles, and personalities...Sometimes its hard to watch something so full of art and story, reduced to cold caculations. Hell half the time I played the stages I did, were for theme music.


I

know that you understand the reason behind tier lists and all (people should try actually reading your posts... <_<), but you want there to be a line between casual and competitive gaming. That's totally cool; I respect that. However, you have to then respect how I choose to play which is to use every game as a chance to improve something. In Brawl, I haven't used every character yet (I don't own the game, but I've spent maybe 30+ hours playing it with my friends) Already the person who used falco in melee is using Ike. The people who played who they wanted are using the characters they think are cool. I'm using Koopa because I think he rocks, but I'm trying to get a feel for everyone.

I'm not going to harrass anyone over a tierlist, sooo that's enough respect isn't it? Don't worry, I won't flip out and go insane, I just think its a bad idea. PS. How do tier lists count different stategies and stage advantages? I was really wondering how that was even simplified.

If you wish to keep them separate, then when you play online, make the game and have others join you. Pick the fun stages, have items on, whatever you want. But if you join another's game, respect their decision they make--even if it is FD, with items off...
...and they are using Ike

Oh yeah I know, like I said...So far i'm used to alot of people online picking final destination over and over.

@Yuna: good debating skillz. Wish I could debate like you... ^__^

Yuna dosn't have debate skills, I say I don't like tierlists, and she tells me i am taking away her freedoms and killing the american dream. >_<

@most other people: Chill out. Read people's posts, don't read some parts and ignore the rest. If you did this, you'd maybe see where Maximo is coming from. It's a game, competitive or not, so don't be such ****s. Also, in case some of you didn't notice, the OP posted saying he had misunderstood what a tier list was, so the people who continued talking about that should read better ...

Ah the kids get fired up, I'm not suprised. Just remember guys, alot of history, art, music, and effort was put into this game don't forget it.

 

[ch_checkmeout]

A thread like this makes people want to make a tier list even more.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Yuna dosn't have debate skills, I say I don't like tierlists, and she tells me i am taking away her freedoms and killing the american dream. >_<

Erm, you said tierlists were inherently bad, creating a tierlist is wrong, and essentially that there isn't any such thing as tiers.

Yuna called you on all those points.

Of course, your opinion is your own and you have a right to it, but not all opinions are equal.

 

[COMMOFDOOM]

this topic is so full of fail.

 

[Blitzmidfielder]

All I have to say:

Yep, Falcon sure is just as strong as Pit. Never before has there been such an even match.

 

[FunPhax]

*face palm*
As stated before as long as there are different movesets there will ALWAYS be a tier list whether you like it or not.

 

[Shuriken_bob]

Hmmmm.
I still(since the beginning)dont understand why people complain about tiers..
whatever
*shrug