Why A Tier List Is Not For Brawl!!

[Remian]

I know this may get many people up in arms, but I strongly feel that a Tier list is simply irrelevant for Brawl.

Melee was a fast paced fighter based on good recovery and making your opponent fall short of grabbing the ledge. The tier was based on which characters could shfflana the best, chain the best, and simply, keep the opponent away from the ledge. It ended with Sheik, Fox, Falco, and Marth dominating the game, and the entire metagame became backwash of the same techniques over and over again.

In Brawl, however, recovery is barely an issue. Most characters have a sufficient amount of recovery to almost ALWAYS save them if the attack doesn't instakill. The loss of wave dashing and l-cancelling and a slower...more airy engine meant more strategic gameplay, as dodges count for everything and speed is based on how fast u can dodge and pull of an attack. Combo's are much more difficult to pull off and more rewarding.

While in Melee each character was forced to play similarly to succeed, Brawl promotes individuality. Meta Knight thrives on his fast swordsmanship and while Ike dominates on his slow heavy attack style. However, Meta Knight could never play the slow, heavy, smash attack based attack style that Ike plays, and vise-versa.

Characters like Kirby and Bowser have been balanced out, and although slow, clunky characters like Ganondorf have gotten even slower (Bowser has sped up though...) his boosted attack power really makes a difference in Brawls new engine.

It's all balanced out and it all makes sense. Players make new play styles based on the character and none of them play the same. A tier is meaningless because an extremely skilled Ganondorf player can destroy a Pit fighter. I have yet to lose to any Marth while playing as Lucario, and I was unable to play Pit well, but I've seen good players use him to the fullest and still be beaten by a better player using Bowser or Dedede. It's all balanced out. You need to understand your character and you need to have skill. Practice makes perfect.

EDIT: After a quick glance at the tier thread, everyones choices for top tier is very similar. This proves my theory even more

~Remian

 

[lordXblade]

This game is diverse, and if there's diversity in a fighting game, there will be tiers.

 

[JT_productions829]

i thought tiers were made based on all characters' top metagame. And if i am not mistaken, the tiers are ranked as if each player was the SAME skill level playing against each different character. Each character was placed accordingly has to how good overall they were, not just a rating of the best shffl-ers or edge guarders. Some one else told me that the tiers were also somewhat affected by general tournament results as well.

 

[Yuna]

You obviously do not know what the meaning of the word "Tier List" is. Tier lists exist for all games (fighter or not). The only way for a game to not have a tierlist would to have all of the characters be exactly the same.

 

[Luthien]

No, I disagree. As long as there are different movesets in Brawl, there will always be different levels. Whether or not the differences are small, there will be differences, and that's what creates tiers. If everyone becomes high-tier in Brawl, there will be sub-divisions of high-tier created.

Also, the fact that each character plays differently is indeed an issue. Some traits are naturally more imortant than others in Brawl. Although the characters have been balanced (generally), you need a certain amount of knockback to work with a certain amount of speed to have a good character. What traits are most important have yet to be seen. But there will be a tier list of some kind, because there are differences, and they create imbalance. Period.

 

[Zink]

A fighting game with more than 1 moveset has a tier list.

/thread

 

[Lavos]

tl;dr version of topic: tires don exits

Good luck with your argument TC!

SPOILERS: TC loses

 

[lordXblade]

The first post is one of many reasons why the brawl forums suck.

 

[Mercury]

in after "ssb didn't make tierlist."

 

[Killer Tree]

You obviously do not know what the meaning of the word "Tier List" is. Tier lists exist for all games (fighter or not). The only way for a game to not have a tierlist would to have all of the characters be exactly the same.

Where's my Team Fortress 2 tier list?

 

[Firestorm88]

You don't seem to understand what a tier list is. Some characters WILL be better than others. These differences in playstyle you note is one of the reasons. Some playstyles will be better for winning than others. We'll see a tier list develop in a year and it will constantly change as the game evolves.

 

[Bug]

You won't stop people from making tier lists so what's the point? People will try to judge how effective a character is depending on the current meta. As things evolve, tier lists evolve. You point out yourself that each character is unique and certain traits make certain characters able to better capitalize on the tricks/techs that are known at the time. There'll be a tier list and drama will ensue.

 

[Remian]

I see. I sort of misjudged the meaning of a tier list. I hope I can be forgiven

 

[FalconPunch]

lulz Brawl boards.

 

[Xanskarr]

Where's my Team Fortress 2 tier list?

There is no tier list, because no one wants to make it.

Tiers exist if there is diversity, just like everyone said.

 

[Archetype chaos]

Where's my Team Fortress 2 tier list?

Didn't they just release a patch attempting to balance some characters

 

[CarpeIppon]

Where's my Team Fortress 2 tier list?

God Tier - Medic
High Tier - Soldier, Scout, Demo
Middle Tier - Heavy, Sniper
Low Tier - Spy, Engineer, Pyro

Tiers are based on the metagame. In TF2's case, Spy's, NG's, and Pyro's are rarely used. They are situational match ups only. Heavies and Snipers often see play, but very rarely do you see more than one of them on a team. Soldiers, scouts and demos make up most of a team, and medics are without a doubt the most vital class.

 

[Yuna]

Where's my Team Fortress 2 tier list?

Just because no one's made a tierlist doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Tiers exists for all games where there's diversity. If everyone's exactly the same, then ease of use comes into play.

Team Fortress 2 is an FPS. I have not played it but I assume not all weapons are made alike. Therefore, a weapons tierlist should exist (even if no one has written down one). I mean, there are weapons that are better than others in that game, right? And those who are worse?

Didn't they just release a patch attempting to balance some characters

That was, surprise, surprise, a lie.

 

[Mechageo]

You obviously do not know what the meaning of the word "Tier List" is. Tier lists exist for all games (fighter or not). The only way for a game to not have a tierlist would to have all of the characters be exactly the same.

Where's my Team Fortress 2 tier list?

I don't know where that is, but I DO have a copy of the Tier List for Super Mario Bros.

Here it is:

Top Tier-Mario
Bottom Tier-Luigi

 

[Monshou_no_Nazo]

Team Fortress 2 is an FPS. I have not played it but I assume not all weapons are made alike. Therefore, a weapons tierlist should exist (even if no one has written down one). I mean, there are weapons that are better than others in that game, right? And those who are worse?

Quote:

It's not like Quake, where you pick up a weapon and that defines your ability. Team Fortress 2 is about having character classes you can choose, and each comes with pre-set weapons as well as having different amounts of health, speed, and sometimes a special ability (such as Double Jumping or being able to Cloak).

So obviously the Medic makes it to Top Tier for a reason, because he not only helps heal teammates, but if he heals a teammate long enough to get his Ubercharge (TF2 equivalent of a Super Meter), then he can actually turn himself and the teammate he is healing invincible for about ten seconds. If an Uber is done right, it will help make a huge hole in the enemy defense and change the outcome of the situation completely. This is why the Medic was put top tier in an earlier post, because of his necessity as part of a team. TF2 is more than just weapons, which is why it is a cool game.

 

[Giga Hand]

Is this the SSBB boards or the TF2 boards?

 

[Mic_128]

though you could argue that he's not top tier as he becomes a big target. I know I'll always go for the medic before anything else, and it's hard to heal if you get sniped.

Anyway, to me TF2 is more like rock-paper-scissors.

 

[bayonettrials]

though you could argue that he's not top tier as he becomes a big target. I know I'll always go for the medic before anything else, and it's hard to heal if you get sniped.

Anyway, to me TF2 is more like rock-paper-scissors.

Lol I love being a pyro and going straight for a healing medic, they flip out.

Then die.

 

[-Risky-]

You sir, suck. Now that the game is less edge play oriented the character don't have qualities? Properties? Pros and cons? You are so wrong it's barely funny, and better yet, no one of note will ever agree with you. Ever.

 

[Catfish_Mike]

Tier lists are serious business.

 

[BigRick]

*coqslaps thread and enjoys it*

 

[Realizer]

No matter how balanced a game is, there are going to be tier lists.

 

[PipePlaza]

There will always be tiers, although the gap and number of tiers will be lower then melee I believe, sorry casuals, there's just always a few characters that stand out in games like this and that's never going to change.

 

[Razorsaw]

You obviously do not know what the meaning of the word "Tier List" is. Tier lists exist for all games (fighter or not).

... How does a platformer have a tier list?

 

[PipePlaza]

... How does a platformer have a tier list?

Luigi's better then Mario in Galaxy for example

 

[Razorsaw]

... and for the record, why are we levelling personal insults at the guy whose just presenting an opinion? Smash isn't serious business, folks. IT'S A GAME.

Luigi's better then Mario in Galaxy for example

And... lots of games have only one character to play as. What then?

 

[Grandeza]

And... lots of games have only one character to play as. What then?

Naturally there would then only be one character making that character all tiers. A tier list would be pretty void for a game with one character.

 

[Razorsaw]

THank god. I was wondering if there was a complex tier system for levels or something.

 

[shadydentist]

Good Egg Galaxy is top tier. There, I said it.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

God Tier - Medic
High Tier - Soldier, Scout, Demo
Middle Tier - Heavy, Sniper
Low Tier - Spy, Engineer, Pyro

Tiers are based on the metagame. In TF2's case, Spy's, NG's, and Pyro's are rarely used. They are situational match ups only. Heavies and Snipers often see play, but very rarely do you see more than one of them on a team. Soldiers, scouts and demos make up most of a team, and medics are without a doubt the most vital class.

Please keep the tier bs out of TF2.

 

[fr0st2k]

Mario, Pikachu, Yoshi, Wolf, Toon Link, Luigi, Falcon --> All high tier

 

[kr3wman]

God Tier - Medic
High Tier - Soldier, Scout, Demo
Middle Tier - Heavy, Sniper
Low Tier - Spy, Engineer, Pyro

Tiers are based on the metagame. In TF2's case, Spy's, NG's, and Pyro's are rarely used. They are situational match ups only. Heavies and Snipers often see play, but very rarely do you see more than one of them on a team. Soldiers, scouts and demos make up most of a team, and medics are without a doubt the most vital class.

Dude...You just failed.

Real bad.

 

[Killer Tree]

You guys are just plain wrong. Give me a Starcraft tier list now. You can't because the game is perfectly balanced.

 

[BentoBox]

"Why I should stop posting!!"

 

[XEM]

As I recall the tier list was determined by tournament results. So there is always going to be tier lists. But the huge differences in the characters and their play styles is still going to affect it incredibly(Possibly making it more accurate). In melee if you learned a couple advanced techs you could play most every character at least decently(I'm proof of this) so people could switch characters whenever. In brawl each character is so different and the lack of universal advanced techs means less character swapping unless you have time to learn another play style.

Marth was top tier for forever because Ken won the first big tourney using him, after that everybody and their grandmother played Marth and the amount of them overwhelmed other characters. Same thing happened when Fox and falco's potential was discovered. They rose to the top through shear numbers like ants. If there were 100 people at a tournament 50 used Fox or falco, the rest used crappy characters like luigi so the odds were in space monsters favor.