Who has the best matchups after MK?

[Veng]

Okay so if you put MK Into play and how many people use him, a lot of characters arent so good against him.

So saying MK has the least bad matchups, who has the next least? I thought about it and from a standpoint when im NOT playing GW hes a horrible one, I dont play Marth but most of my characters are bad against these too, any opinions?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

That's a vague question. If "good match-up's" mean few bad ones it has to be Marth. If you mean many good ones MK doesn't even have the best now. Dedede makes more characters unviable than MK does (although he has more disadvantages of course)

 

[Hype]

If you imagined that every character played 10 matches against every character. Assuming that in a 6:4 match up, the person with the advantage will win 6 out of the 10 matches. G&W would win the most.

Although this doesn't factor in counterpicking and likely hood of playing against a certain character due to popularity.

 

[Fatmanonice]

As in good/bad ratio or strong counters? When it comes to good/bad ratio, it'd be really close between Marth and Lucario because they don't really have any terrible matchups (Marth's only God awful match up is Metaknight, for example) and do pretty good against most of the cast. When it comes to strong counters, it'd either be Snake or Mr. Game and Watch because they absolutely wreck a good percentage of people below them in rank.

 

[Praxis]

G&W has the most advantaged matchups. Snake or Dedede might come in second, but both have their fair share of bad matchups too.

Marth has the least disadvantaged matchups, but he has a lot of neutrals.

 

[Kitamerby]

As in good/bad ratio or strong counters? When it comes to good/bad ratio, it'd be really close between Marth and Lucario because they don't really have any terrible matchups (Marth's only God awful match up is Metaknight, for example) and do pretty good against most of the cast. When it comes to strong counters, it'd either be Snake or Mr. Game and Watch because they absolutely wreck a good percentage of people below them in rank.

Lucario's 4-6 to GnW, DDD, Olimar, Marth, and Meta Knight.

Marth's 4-6 to Meta Knight and... uh... uh... uh... Meta Knight... and... uh... uh... uh...

 

[Sosuke]

Isn't it Marth?
I thought it was Marth. =/

 

[Praxis]

Isn't it Marth?
I thought it was Marth. =/

Like I said- Marth has the least amount of bad matchups, but G&W has the largest amount of good matchups.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Like I said- Marth has the least amount of bad matchups, but G&W has the largest amount of good matchups.

Not true. Falco and GnW are tied

 

[Freezewish]

Marth has the least amount of bad matchups.

Dont believe me?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=186736

 

[Nic64]

I think Marth and Lucario are the next least disadvantaged characters, they're also closer to neutral on most characters than people like snake or DDD, but those would be my picks for the next least disadvantages, especially if MK is gone <_<

 

[Shady Penguin]

Snake has many good match-ups, but not a lot of really strong ones like some people seem to say.

Second would be Marth, G&W, or D3. Snake wouldn't be considered the second best character right now if the tourney scene wasn't so MK-centric.

 

[8AngeL8]

I'd have to give the award to Snake because no one really shuts him down.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Lucario's 4-6 to GnW, DDD, Olimar, Marth, and Meta Knight.

Marth's 4-6 to Meta Knight and... uh... uh... uh... Meta Knight... and... uh... uh... uh...

I thought the Marth/Meta Knight match up was 70-30? No? Oh well, still, both characters are pretty well balanced and, given the info people have presented, Marth appears to be even more so.

 

[8AngeL8]

Marth can space MK pretty well, I don't think I'd put it 70-30. MK's advantage, but maybe just 60-40?

 

[rehab]

Imo Snake's only disadvantage that's tough to compensate for is Falco. Spam grenades with Dedede and pikachu and its close to even.

Marth is arguably disadvantaged to a Snake that has kicked the camp into MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE and ROB.

 

[Praxis]

I'd have to give the award to Snake because no one really shuts him down.

Wario, DK, Dedede, Falco, ROB? Heck even a lot of lower ranked characters can fight fairly evenly with him (Pit, Pika, Zamus, Peach).

 

[Fatmanonice]

Imo Snake's only disadvantage that's tough to compensate for is Falco. Spam grenades with Dedede and pikachu and its close to even.

Marth is arguably disadvantaged to a Snake that has kicked the camp into MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE and ROB.

Don't forget DK, ROB, and the Ice Climbers too. They are supposed to be advantaged against Snake too unless he goes crazy with grenades. Fox does pretty good against Snake and is one of the few characters that can force Snake to approach thanks to the lazer blowing up grenades and heavily detracting the paths of the nikitias. He also has the reflector to rely on too. There are talks currently about whether or not Olimar could be a possible Snake counter too.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wario, DK, Dedede, Falco, ROB? Heck even a lot of lower ranked characters can fight fairly evenly with him (Pit, Pika, Zamus, Peach).

You knew you would mention Peach *coughbiascough*

DK, Wario, Pit, Zamus and Peach are not bad match-up's for Snake. He has the advantage against Pit, Peach (yes!) and perhaps Zamus and goes even with DK and Wario.
His bad match-up's are: Pikachu, King Dedede, ROB and Falco. Not to mention the fact, that he has a slight advantage over MK, which alone is much more worth than the disadvantage against Pikachu.
I also have little trust in Marths match-up's. If they were that good, he'd be much higher on the tier list. I don't think, that MK is his only disadvantage (I think - no matter what the Marth board says - that Dedede and Snake have the advantage).

@Fatman

Forget what you said about Fox. It's horribly wrong. Why should the Iceys have the advantage? It's Snakes advantage.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I think Marth and Lucario are the next least disadvantaged characters, they're also closer to neutral on most characters than people like snake or DDD, but those would be my picks for the next least disadvantages, especially if MK is gone <_<

Untrue, Marth has clearly less bad matchups than Lucario, with only 2 atm, MK and Snake (and Snake is only at 55:45) so yeah, it'd be Marth.

 

[XienZo]

Untrue, Marth has clearly less bad matchups than Lucario, with only 2 atm, MK and Snake (and Snake is only at 55:45) so yeah, it'd be Marth.

The thing is that Lucario is also flexible to suit to the opponent's style, being able to change in style as much as PT(Well, not THAT much, but ALMOST there). Thus, match-ups vary widely among Lucario's, and what may seem like 6:4 for half of the Lucarios may be 4:6 for the other half.

If you're playing AS a Lucario, unless you have extremely good skill with all the styles of fighting, you're going to run into more disadvantages than Marth.

However, if you're playing as lets say, Snake, (and hopefully, Snake is advantageous against Marth), much more Lucario's will give you trouble than Marths.

In other words, Lucario may vary.

 

[Ulevo]

If you imagined that every character played 10 matches against every character. Assuming that in a 6:4 match up, the person with the advantage will win 6 out of the 10 matches. G&W would win the most.

Although this doesn't factor in counterpicking and likely hood of playing against a certain character due to popularity.

This is not how ratios work. You have no clue what you're talking about.
Also, Marth.

 

[Kitamerby]

The thing is that Lucario is also flexible to suit to the opponent's style, being able to change in style as much as PT(Well, not THAT much, but ALMOST there). Thus, match-ups vary widely among Lucario's, and what may seem like 6:4 for half of the Lucarios may be 4:6 for the other half.

If you're playing AS a Lucario, unless you have extremely good skill with all the styles of fighting, you're going to run into more disadvantages than Marth.

However, if you're playing as lets say, Snake, (and hopefully, Snake is advantageous against Marth), much more Lucario's will give you trouble than Marths.

In other words, Lucario may vary.

No.

10char

 

[Nic64]

Untrue, Marth has clearly less bad matchups than Lucario, with only 2 atm, MK and Snake (and Snake is only at 55:45) so yeah, it'd be Marth.

oh definitely, I didn't mean to say they were equal in that regard but I do think he belongs in the discussion of characters with extremely few bad matchups, but I'd agree that marth is the next best in terms of not getting ***** by anyone.

 

[123]

Metaknight is easy, just like ur mom.
Here's how to beat it:
Step 1: Kill it with fire
Step 2: CP. Lots of CP.
Step 3: buttsecks
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit!

 

[Shy Guy 86]

GaymenWatch has the most matchups at his advantage, Marth is more of a well rounded matchup character, Falco has his 80:20 matchups but suffers against some dudes, Snake has his **** matchups, but sufffers against a few.

 

[123]

Shy Guy is Shy

 

[Shady Penguin]

You knew you would mention Peach *coughbiascough*

DK, Wario, Pit, Zamus and Peach are not bad match-up's for Snake. He has the advantage against Pit, Peach (yes!) and perhaps Zamus and goes even with DK and Wario.
His bad match-up's are: Pikachu, King Dedede, ROB and Falco. Not to mention the fact, that he has a slight advantage over MK, which alone is much more worth than the disadvantage against Pikachu.
I also have little trust in Marths match-up's. If they were that good, he'd be much higher on the tier list. I don't think, that MK is his only disadvantage (I think - no matter what the Marth board says - that Dedede and Snake have the advantage).

@Fatman

Forget what you said about Fox. It's horribly wrong. Why should the Iceys have the advantage? It's Snakes advantage.

DK is good against Snake, and Pit is very arguably even or good against Snake.

Falco is usually considered even, so I don't know where you got that from, but Olimar is considered good against Snake. Didn't the Wolf boards say that Snake was an even match-up btw?

 

[ShadowLink84]

Overall?
It would be between Marth and G&W.
*shot*

 

[~ Gheb ~]

DK is good against Snake, and Pit is very arguably even or good against Snake.

Apaarently not. I alsp was under that impression but DK and Snake both seem to think it's even. And lol Pit. Idk who says it's even or Pits adv...

Falco is usually considered even, so I don't know where you got that from, but Olimar is considered good against Snake.

Is considered? By whom exactly?

Didn't the Wolf boards say that Snake was an even match-up btw?

I never said anything else

 

[bludhoundz]

I also have little trust in Marths match-up's. If they were that good, he'd be much higher on the tier list. I don't think, that MK is his only disadvantage (I think - no matter what the Marth board says - that Dedede and Snake have the advantage).

The Marth boards have him at a slight disadvantage (45:55) to Snake & Dedede & I believe DK as well, while at a significant disadvantage to MK (35:65).



Also his matchups aren't "that good." He has few disadvantages, but many of the advantages he has are not that big, and you really have to be on at least the same level as your opponent in order for those advantages to even come into play.

 

[Vect0r]

I'd say Snake. Many consider him to be the overall greatest right after MK.

 

[Crizthakidd]

nothing ***** a falco or GnW

except a good mk O_O

 

[da K.I.D.]

If you imagined that every character played 10 matches against every character. Assuming that in a 6:4 match up, the person with the advantage will win 6 out of the 10 matches. G&W would win the most.

Although this doesn't factor in counterpicking and likely hood of playing against a certain character due to popularity.

This is not how ratios work. You have no clue what you're talking about.
Also, Marth.

thats actually exactly how ratios work.... o_O

Untrue, Marth has clearly less bad matchups than Lucario, with only 2 atm, MK and Snake (and Snake is only at 55:45) so yeah, it'd be Marth.

marth boards say that they are only disadvantaged to Mk (65-35) snake and D3 (45-55 for both)

I'd say Snake. Many consider him to be the overall greatest right after MK.

this ^

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The Marth boards have him at a slight disadvantage (45:55) to Snake & Dedede & I believe DK as well, while at a significant disadvantage to MK (35:65).

This is a question of how you interpret numbers of match-up ratios. Mot ppl would say, that 45:55 is a neutral match-up. This leads to such ridicoulus assumptions that Marth will be the best character, should MK ever be banned.

Last time i checked DK was 50:50 btw

Also his matchups aren't "that good." He has few disadvantages, but many of the advantages he has are not that big, and you really have to be on at least the same level as your opponent in order for those advantages to even come into play.

Many Marth players say this but it's not like that at all. He semi-hard counters Fox, Kirby, Pikachu and Wario just to name the more "prominent" ones

 

[brinboy789]

As in good/bad ratio or strong counters? When it comes to good/bad ratio, it'd be really close between Marth and Lucario because they don't really have any terrible matchups (Marth's only God awful match up is Metaknight, for example) and do pretty good against most of the cast. When it comes to strong counters, it'd either be Snake or Mr. Game and Watch because they absolutely wreck a good percentage of people below them in rank.

agreed in strong counters, but MK doesnt wreck marth, its 60:40 in MK's favor.

 

[Shady Penguin]

Apaarently not. I alsp was under that impression but DK and Snake both seem to think it's even. And lol Pit. Idk who says it's even or Pits adv...



Is considered? By whom exactly?



I never said anything else

Pit boards seem to think so, and I don't find it to be a long shot. Last time I checked, people said DK was even with Snake at the worst.

Everywhere I've seen people talk about the match-up, they say Olimar has the advantage.

Just wanted to ask.

 

[cman]

thats actually exactly how ratios work.... o_O

Not according to Emblem Lord. And EL>you. That is all.

this ^

No, not really. The general consesus is that most of the worse matchups for Snake are destroyed by MK (rob, for example) making him seem like the second best, but he really isn't. Very good still though.

 

[AndrewCarlson]

agreed in strong counters, but MK doesnt wreck marth, its 60:40 in MK's favor.

65:35 actually. The Marth boards came to this ratio after extensive analyzing .

 

[BurningCrusader777]

G&W, most likely. Marth is up there as well, but it's not like he has many uber matchups (Ness aside).