Who counters Dr Mario?

[Roman.]

just be patient, pill spam until they charge at you and work from there

punish all of his mistakes and gimp when possible, doc > marth's recovery

 

[KirbyKaze]

spam pills.

run away.

spam more pills.

if he lags for a second then grab him and combo him with moves.

wavedash out of shield when he attacks your shield. if he's lagged then grab him. if not then get away from him and resume pills.

you're not really working with much. direct approach = awful because the magical sword of overcompensation protects him. as does his f-air. so really just try to force him into something dumb and punish. make him walk through or swat pills and create some lag to work with. if he doesn't lag, then get to the other side of the stage and pills.

you lose when you hit the edge and have to do something that isn't pills or waveshield backwards. so do not get pressured to the edge. for the love of god if he's coming at you, do not let him in, and do not give him control.

 

[otg]

Try and predict/bait the fsmash. Lots of Marth's are Fsmash happy, so you can just spotdodge and than follow up with a wavedash -> dsmash or even wavedash out of the shield -> dsmash. When fighting Marth, I like to keep as much pressure on Marth as possible, Ftilt is a great spacing move that can catch Marth off guard and clash with Marth's attacks.

I like keep Marth off the stage because it's where he's most vulnerable, so Dsmash is great against him due to it's awesome clearing power. Even if you can't Bair him, you can probably still edgeguard/hog him with Ftilt or cape. Always good to try and disturb his recovery by throwing pills out as he tries to come back.

Seriously, I can't stress this enough: FTILT.

 

[hoopspr226]

Yeah I already do all those things - space with f-tilt, spam pills, and wavedash out of shield to punish whiffed f-smashes. It works alright and I can beat crappier Marths, but I can't help but think that Marth is easily Doc's worst matchup.

Why do people think Sheik (and maybe Falcon) are harder than Marth? I disagree completely - the fact that you can chaingrab the first two makes those matchups a lot easier and Falcon is insanely easy to edgeguard. Meanwhile, a good Marth can slice through all your pills and edgeguard you far too easily, while all you can do is annoy them with pills and hope for mistakes.

Marth is the only matchup I see myself really needing to switch characters for.

 

[Roman.]

ummm you can gimp marth easier than falcon and once you get up in his grill it's **** time

umm if you're gunna CG falcon, you're gunna have to GET a grab first of all and that's NOT easy, also you'd have to be on FD to actually rack up % otherwise platforms get in the way. the other HUGE advantage falcon has is he can combo you really well! and the knee owns doc to no extent

shiek is also EXTREMELY hard to grab, maybe even harder than falcon. she will edge guard you like nothing and her fair at like 80% will get you far enough off the stage (and down) that you won't recover

marth isn't hard guys! once he's above you, you should be comboing him big time. If you get a grab in, it's easy % and like i said before, it's REALLY easy to gimp the worst and the best marths. If anything this matchup should go stock for stock. The hardest part for marth against doc is that he can't do ANYTHING if he grabs you, that's a huge part of marth's game. If you just practice with a marth occasionally you'll realize when to be patient and when to be aggressive and that's a huge part of fighting a marth.

 

[soap]

patient marth ***** doc

 

[Roman.]

patient doc ***** marth

ex: you are pill spamming, he's just standing there slicing through them... just get a little closer full hop pill -> waveland (towards marth) -> ftilt. Rinse and repeat and he won't be so patient anymore

 

[otg]

patient doc ***** marth

ex: you are pill spamming, he's just standing there slicing through them... just get a little closer full hop pill -> waveland (towards marth) -> ftilt. Rinse and repeat and he won't be so patient anymore

Uhh, Marth's Fair will go through pills and still hit you. He could just approach you with Fair's or even gayer just walk towards you and jab everytime a pill hits. Good Marth's aren't going to just stand and wait while you throw pills at them.

 

[Roman.]

fair? fair is so easy to get through, marth is just asking to get grabbed... if he's shdfaing towards you, there is PLENTY of lag to shield grab or wavedash (out of shield) -> jab in between fairs... honestly fairs are not the way marths approach and if any do, you shouldn't have a problem handling them.

as for creeping up on you jabing, once against pill -> waveland -> ftilt, the pill cancels his jab and your ftilt will be right there

idk maybe it's just because i play a marth every other day so it's not as hard

 

[soap]

when i do the matchup with marth, i usually try to bait out the full jump pill and run under it, same against sheiks full jump needles. i feel like full jump pills are not very safe with doc against marth. u can get under them or neutral/ fair through them. sure there is a certain spacing where it is safe but its not too hard for marth to mess up that spacing.

i find marth alot harder than sheik, but i play regular mario... *goes to mario boards*

 

[otg]

Fair does cut through pills and continue to hit, and good marth's aren't going to allow you to shield grab them lol. He can space SHDF to be completely outside your shield grab range/jab range, so the only thing you can do safely is Ftilt.

 

[Stryk9]

I mean, I do agree with Roman in that once your close enough and inside marths range you can start giving him some surgery, and he;s right, you have to be patient, because the marths are goona be looking for gimp/**** kills that happen fas (i know, as a marth player , I do), and when they dont get them they're more likely to mess up and theres your chance. Make sure to plz not miss your l cancels and to jab--->dmash, its good against everyone, of course, but just remember it, and wave dash outa shield if he whiffs an fsmash.

 

[KirbyKaze]

if marth spaces fair you can't really do much.

you have to convince marth to do something dumb and punishable with his fair. if he plays patient and slowly pushes you towards the edge with his range and priority and gradually removes your space to pill spam (while of course staying at arm's length) and he becomes the thing between the middle of the stage and the edge, the matchup becomes really, really gay imho.

 

[SmashMac]

Yeah KirbyKaze pretty much summed it up as far as your edge-game vs. Marth's edgeguarding. The best way to fight Marth is centre stage. If you're on the edge of the stage and he knows how to properly space fairs while remaining patient to observe what you're going to come up from the ledge with so he can punish you, it'll eventually lead to you dying, and can become very frustrating. However, when you're fighting him centre stage it's easier to maneuver around his fair spacing with proper pill spamming and using the pills correctly. Not saying it's not hard to bypass his fair because it is very hard, but it beats being on the ledge with him just patiently waiting to punish you're get-up. Marth's that know how to play Doc. and that are good will space fairs because they know that one of you're best approaches is to pill space and then Decoy Vitamin towards them to get that grab.

QDVS is the main Marth that I play, and he's very, very good. He's in my crew so we play a lot and actually him and RockCrock are the ones that taught my brothers and I how to play this game when we first started. Usually he beats me when he plays patiently next to the ledge, fair spaces correctly and accordingly, and when he edgeguards with counter against my up+B/sweetspot because the trajectory just gays the hell out of Doc. and you can't really DI it. It sends you further out and since you've probably already done the recovery process you won't be close enough to the stage to up+B sweetspot. Not to mention he's probably going to be edgehogging by that time anyways. So if you see that a Marth is edgeguarding you with either patient fairs or is countering your up+B, it's obviously best to play centre stage no matter what. The best time to even play with the ledge/edge against Marth is of course when you're edge-guarding him, however I'd be careful when jumping off the stage to edge-guard him and do it only when you're certain of success, because if he turns it around so that he's now edge-guarding you because you screwed something up, you're in for one hell of a surprise of **** if he knows what he's doing.

 

[Eggm]

I think falco counters doc.

 

[boss8]

I think falco counters doc.

na falco is just gay in general.......

 

[GodheadsLamentX]

I think falco counters doc.

Explain how so.

Consider chainthrows, pills, cape, gimp.

If anything, I'd say Sheik has the easiest time with doc.

 

[KirbyKaze]

lasers. aerials are better than yours. you'll never get more than 1 grab per match if even that. his edgeguarding destroys you pretty easily so it's not like you're the only one who kills when the other's off the stage. his combos wreck you. longer legs = more range. he kills you easily. lasers.

falco wrecks doc.

 

[RaynEX]

I agree ^.

Is camping with Fox enough to say he has a bit of the tilt in the match-up as well? If not that then drillshine to something, because he can't uthrow uair Mario/Doc.

 

[hoopspr226]

What's wrong with caping lasers? Although the cape is slow-ish, I've found it to be a decent option for dealing with lasers when Falco is reasonably far away or I predict the laser.

Also, on an unrelated note, does anyone try to powershield Falco's dairs and nairs in order to shield grab him? It seems to me that if someone could actually do that somewhat consistently the matchup would change drastically.

 

[RaynEX]

There is this guy named pkmvodka...

He is ridiculous at powershielding. Also, why not just roll behind him when he rambos with dair?

 

[hoopspr226]

sorry, im not quite understanding... how do you punish the dair by rolling behind it? Or did you just mean that as an escape option?

 

[otg]

lasers. aerials are better than yours. you'll never get more than 1 grab per match if even that. his edgeguarding destroys you pretty easily so it's not like you're the only one who kills when the other's off the stage. his combos wreck you. longer legs = more range. he kills you easily. lasers.

falco wrecks doc.

After today, I'm going to have to agree that Falco wrecks Doc. Maybe not wrecks, but out prioritizes, longer reach, lazers, combos the balls out of you. You pretty much have to hope he makes mistakes so you can get a grab in, and then depending on the stage you might not be able to follow up well. However, Doc can chainthrow, edgeguard and gimp Falco pretty easily (whenever you have the chance.....) so I would say its 6.5/3.5 Falco

 

[KirbyKaze]

truthfully, i think for the whole people overvalue chain grabs. they don't do as much as people want them to, it's just that the whole "inescapable combo" feel to the makes them seem so amazing. in reality, they only really help on one stage (fd) immensely and that stage is still awful against space animals if they play smart because some of their shiniest gameplay points (laser camp, space control, etc) get emphasized too.

but i digress.

i don't know how the numbers would play out for the matchup, but it's pretty awful. people have this misconception that spacies can only BE gimped and not gimp back, and gimp back harder with their better gimp options and amazing speed/space control.

 

[RaynEX]

I agree, Fox can gimp.

 

[Proud_Smash_N00b]

Marth
his range is like twice as huge as Doc's
and Marth has an easier time recovering than spacies.
Also better edgeguarding

If you're gonna use spacies, then you need to be careful or else they can combo you pretty hard. Avoid being grabbed, Dthrow-Fsmash/Dsmash or Uthrow-Fair can be fatal

 

[Roman.]

i still don't find all that big of a problem against falco -.-

atm i think c falcon is def. the hardest matchup for doc... but of course it's not that bad on fd

 

[otg]

i still don't find all that big of a problem against falco -.-

atm i think c falcon is def. the hardest matchup for doc... but of course it's not that bad on fd

Did you play Ky or hazzard's Falco yesterday? Rough, very rough fights. No one is saying Falco is his hardest, but it's definitely up there (maybe 3rd or 4th?)

 

[hoopspr226]

Marth
his range is like twice as huge as Doc's
and Marth has an easier time recovering than spacies.
Also better edgeguarding

If you're gonna use spacies, then you need to be careful or else they can combo you pretty hard. Avoid being grabbed, Dthrow-Fsmash/Dsmash or Uthrow-Fair can be fatal

Did you just refer to the spacies fair as fatal? LOL

 

[MattDotZeb]

Did you play Ky or hazzard's Falco yesterday? Rough, very rough fights. No one is saying Falco is his hardest, but it's definitely up there (maybe 3rd or 4th?)

i did play haz's falco and it's the only match that i did somewhat well, all of his other char. destroyed me for the most part... if you just play defensively, it's very easy to play against falco, especially on fd

-roman

 

[otg]

i did play haz's falco and it's the only match that i did somewhat well, all of his other char. destroyed me for the most part... if you just play defensively, it's very easy to play against falco, especially on fd

-roman

Roman, I'm telling you, DJ is good but against very technical Falco you will get destroyed. FD is the only place you stand a good chance because of infinite chaingrabbing, on most other stages it's no where near as useful. Here's some proof:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS4qTpb-oHU - 5:53, ****, and yes that is Mario as opposed to Doc, but they so similar that there really isn't much of a difference in terms of the matchup. Plus, Green Mario is one of the best Mario's in the country right now. Experience Roman, you lack it.

Edit:

Look at 6:08!!! Holy crap, that is proof right there that Falco *****. He is SHL SOOO CLOSE to Mario, but he can't do ****. Why? Shieldgrab range/range in general is terrible, and anymove that would potentially get Falco comes out to slow and would get beaten out by a Jab or SHL.

 

[JonaDiaper]

otg shut uppppp. thats eggm your talking about... hes probably the only one with the balls to do that. plus falcon counters dr mario. end of discusion. dair jab jab grab d throw nair u air u air u air knee. sound familiar otg? any mental pictures going? flash backs? dejavu? do that 4 times and your good.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Did you just refer to the spacies fair as fatal? LOL

he was referring to doc.

 

[otg]

otg shut uppppp. thats eggm your talking about... hes probably the only one with the balls to do that. plus falcon counters dr mario. end of discusion. dair jab jab grab d throw nair u air u air u air knee. sound familiar otg? any mental pictures going? flash backs? dejavu? do that 4 times and your good.

Jona, let's talk about all the ******** combos I do on you at a constant basis. You got that one combo off during a match where your dad was screaming at you, and the whole time I was DIing into you, why? Who the hell cares, combos are typically never that free. Get over yourself.

 

[KirbyKaze]

falco ***** doc.

falcon beats doc.

sheik is gay. and ***** doc.

marth is equally or possibly more gay. and also beats doc.

fox is a raging homosexual. and beats everyone but like sheik, marth, and falco.

now that we've cleared that up, let's all be friends.

 

[JonaDiaper]

Jona, let's talk about all the ******** combos I do on you at a constant basis. You got that one combo off during a match where your dad was screaming at you, and the whole time I was DIing into you, why? Who the hell cares, combos are typically never that free. Get over yourself.

so my dad was screaming at me, causing me to be in a disadvantage, but i still ***** the living craaaapppp out of you. your right, i should get over it. if i do it again.......i wont get over it.

 

[Zodiac]

Sheik *****
Marth *****
Falco ***** him
Fox ***** him
Falcon ***** him
And Link ***** everybody

 

[The Alpha Gundam]

Doc sounds depressing

 

[otg]

Sheik *****
Marth *****
Falco ***** him
Fox ***** him
Falcon ***** him
And Link ***** everybody

Silly Link players and your biases.

Spacies is 6-4
Sheik 5.5-4.5
Marth 6.5-3.5
Falcon 6 - 4 (maybe 6.5-3.5)

My 2 cents.

Edit:


New vids! check my Q&A thread.

 

[Roman.]

shiek + falcon **** doc, marth and personally ganon do good against doc and falco and fox are even at most, personally though doc has the advantage