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Who are the Top 10 Players of 2012?

Archangel

Archangel

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darkatma said:
This is very accurate right now.

The bigger question is, why is there such a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge gap in skill between the world's top 5 and the next tier of players? Why are there only 5 top level players that consistently place really well and above everyone else? What are they doing right that the rest of us are doing wrong?
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Based on the paper results you'd think there is a very far gab but honestly I think the gap is shrinking little by little. Many of the people I mentioned in places 6-10 have taken games, nearly beat, or beaten the top 1-5 at some point.

KirbyKaze for example has beat PP and Hbox before. Shroomed has had close sets with all of them at some point and Beat PP before in a set(sick johns but it happened). Recently I watched a Set between Armada and Ice's Fox that was pretty good. If it was NTSC fox might have been even closer. My point is...as time goes on if the pattern continues some of the current top 5 caught or even passed. Yesterday the top 10 was Chu, PC, Shiz, M2K, Darkrain, Chillen, Drephen, Forward, KDJ. Even then these spots could've been argued past the top 4 or 5.

That's another great thing about this game I guess. The changing faces of Melee. Someone who didn't make it out of pools today could be the number 1 player in the world tomorrow.
 
Divinokage

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The reason why the gap is high is because their consistency is a lot greater than most. I can see what they are doing, their positional choices are really really good.. and with that they can set up some good traps. Also they barely miss anything technical wise which basically everyone else below top 5 do choke a lot more. Already with that, it creates a big gap. Their decision choices are also a lot faster, they can react instantly to what's happening where as the others sometime hesitates when trying to defend themselves. It's a lot of small things which gives them the edge.
 
Jockmaster

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Yeah their technical perfection and consistency seems to be the biggest helper. Also, it seems like theyve become "one with their character". Not to say anyone else doesn't know their character inside and out, it just feels like they have an uncanny connection.

Also, they all just understand melee and its mechanics perfectly

:phone:
 
Hax

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darkatma said:
The bigger question is, why is there such a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge gap in skill between the world's top 5 and the next tier of players? Why are there only 5 top level players that consistently place really well and above everyone else? What are they doing right that the rest of us are doing wrong?
Click to expand...
they play better characters

don't get me wrong, armada/mango/pp/m2k are all better players than me and shroomed (i think we're both more skilled than hbox), but both of us feel that if we played top tiers the gap would be far smaller than it is

anyone who tells me that this isn't a legitimate point and to stop character johning is ****ing stupid
 
Jockmaster

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@Hax While character johns do play a role in a players success, you can't deny the consistency of those 5 players. It's not fair to say that it's only their characters seperating you from them.

In regards to the Hbox statement, a lot of people don't even think Jiggs is top tier. There are literally maybe two relevant Jiggs players besides Hbox. He might not be as technically skilled as you or Shroomed, but his knowledge of matchups, spacing, and the game itself is one of the best out there.

Also...Falcon is like basically top tier...kinda

:phone:
 
leffen

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LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL



how does that account for every other player?
If Doc/CF can't do it, but Peach can be extremely dominant, then fine, be that way LMAO.
I can see the argument for it being harder to be consistent with CF/Doc in their harder matchups, but its not only those that you're losing (Hax has a better shot than armada against Hbox, for example).

Whatever, I honestly think anyone who consider hax top 6ish is stupid. Inactive+got free pass @apex vs m2k +cf johns ftw

also there isn't even a huge gap. Its hilarious that you point out that the "american top 4+armada" is so far ahead when Javi pooped on half of that top 4, and chudat pooped on hbox, kk pooped on hbox, wobbles pooped on m2k, Taj/Westballz (to some degree)/Shroomed/Javi


The truth is, its not as far of a gap as you imagine. Also, the reason as to why they're so good at defeating mid level players is because, unlike other pro esports, all their exp comes from countless amounts of ****** mid level players and very few sets against other top pros.
They spend more time learning how to keep ****** the players under them than the players next to them/above them. Armada was really stuck in that loop too between g1-g2 imho, and it was after he really started concentrating on defeating those who beat him last time that he improved and became the best.

If you question the above, please answer why the **** Hbox hasn't started using Sheik/learned to play against YL after a whole year now. Why neither Hbox nor M2K knows how to really play against ICs. Why Armada went from going "even" with PP (p5) to clearly getting the upper hand, and the same with Hbox and Mango.
Mango/PP is really a different case, but considering how little stuff has changed since WGF (technically, neither of them use shorten, use ledgedash, powershield lasers, etc) and how they aren't really pulling ahead of Hbox/M2K/Javi/etc I'd imagine that its a similar issue.
 
Prince_Abu

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characters johns are lame no one forces you to pick your character so theres no point johning about it since you pick it yourself
 
Divinokage

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Hax said:
they play better characters

don't get me wrong, armada/mango/pp/m2k are all better players than me and shroomed (i think we're both more skilled than hbox), but both of us feel that if we played top tiers the gap would be far smaller than it is

anyone who tells me that this isn't a legitimate point and to stop character johning is ****ing stupid
Click to expand...
You should MM Mango in Falcon dittos, there's a good chance it'll be really tough for you. ;)
 
Shroomed

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Doctor mario is really hard to play though guys =(

I should've just played Fox/Sheik from the start *sigh*
 
Archangel

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Hax said:
they play better characters

don't get me wrong, armada/mango/pp/m2k are all better players than me and shroomed (i think we're both more skilled than hbox), but both of us feel that if we played top tiers the gap would be far smaller than it is

anyone who tells me that this isn't a legitimate point and to stop character johning is ****ing stupid
Click to expand...
This isn't a legitimate point and you should stop character johning :troll:

The major hole in this argument is the fact that Puffs, Falcos, Foxes, and Sheik players all lose to Armada, Mango, PP, and M2K as well. Technically you could argue that the best Pichu player in the world has the most skill on the planet based on your form of measurement but that won't stop them from being stuck in round 3 pools at best.
 
Archangel

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Grim Tuesday said:
I think you overrate Javi. I've seen pretty much every video of him and he doesn't really seem adaptive enough to be top 5 material.

I dunno, it actually feels exactly like the Amsah situation all over again. I guarantee Javi will similarly fade into obscurity, as far as the American scene is concerned.
Click to expand...
So Amsah Faded into obscurity?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvw3dcLfLvc

^obscure.....
 
Twinkles

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He hasn't quite faded into obscurity, but he's certainly fallen a long way since Pound 4, wouldn't you think?
 
leffen

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Lol, typical flopmerican. Amsah could be the best in the world and he wouldn't make top 5 on many of your lists, just because he wouldn't travel (which he is not doing because of a serious health problem)




Anyway, I HATE when people use Amsah as argument for other players being a "fluke" or him not being top 5 or w/e.

At pound 4, Amsah was top 5 material for sure. After pound 4, he started playing much less, and come pound 5 (a whole year after) he wasn't as good ANYMORE. That says very little about how good he was one year before that.

Several sources have also said that Javi wasn't even really playing at his best at Apex. IIRC he had been inactive/semi inactive for a long time but was planning to play a lot in the month before Apex2012, but then a relative fell sick and he was at the hospital 12hours a day.

Of course, this shouldn't even be considered. Javi MUST have been playing his best and PP must have been extremely sick. No one even bothered to look for any information about Javi, they just looked for excuses for the grand america, as always

also at apex2013 and Smashers reunion america is gonna get the big ****
 
Grim Tuesday

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It doesn't have to be so black and white. Just because Javi wasn't necessarily playing his best and PP wasn't necessarily playing his worst, doesn't mean the inverse is true either.

We'll just have to wait and see - theory-crafting would be pointless when really, we don't know ****.

I'm Australian, by the way (it says it next to my location...). So I have no bias either way. Hell, I'm one of the few people who followed the Mexican scene before Javi's stellar performance.
 
P

past_b

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I don't understand why there is still debate about javi being in the top ten. He beat, I believe, pp, lovage, and hax (all top ten material), cactuar and vanz (top 15 like material), and Kdj.

To say that Javi does not belong in te current top ten is kind of silly I think. I understand that Javis performance at Apex could very well have been an anomaly, but there is no evidence that is actually was. He beat many strong players and until it is proven otherwise, he is top ten material.

:phone:
 
Grim Tuesday

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Going just by results and not excluding anyone, there should be no doubt that Javi is top ten.

My argument comes from consistency - I don't believe that Javi will keep up his amazing performance. I have nothing concrete to back this up; call it a hunch.
 
JPOBS

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The strength of the top 5 lies in the fact that they are virtually untouchable except vs very few players. It makes their bracket much more successful when they can evade that "one" threat.

For example, M2k may stuggle with ICs and lost to wobbles, but wobbles is much more likely to lose to other bracket players than M2k. So in the long run, M2k can skate by vs 99% of the cast and dodge his main weaknesses outside of top5.

The same thing can be said for isolated instances like KK vs hbox, where KK has to outplay everyone at his level but hbox kinda just bops them anyway.

Top 5 players dropping a set here and there to shroomed/KK/javi etc means almost nothing when they dunk on everyone else, but their upset rivals have to struggle vs the other guys in 6-20.
 
Froggy

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Grim Tuesday said:
Going just by results and not excluding anyone, there should be no doubt that Javi is top ten.

My argument comes from consistency - I don't believe that Javi will keep up his amazing performance. I have nothing concrete to back this up; call it a hunch.
Click to expand...
I agree with this. And I'm really annoyed that Javi didn't go to Northwest Manifest like he was supposed, there may have been no doubt that he was top 5 by now. Maybe he can find a way to get to Rule 6.
 
unknown522

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Hax said:
they play better characters

don't get me wrong, armada/mango/pp/m2k are all better players than me and shroomed (i think we're both more skilled than hbox), but both of us feel that if we played top tiers the gap would be far smaller than it is

anyone who tells me that this isn't a legitimate point and to stop character johning is ****ing stupid
Click to expand...
I think you guys would have been mediocre players if you mained top tiers.

But that's just my opinion

:phone:
 
Dr Peepee

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I understand everything leffen says

until it comes to top player discussions

I don't understand where the disconnect is....

/waits for leffen to come over
 
robyextreme

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hungrybox said:
Honestly

Armada
Mango
PP
Hbox
M2k
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These aren't really "top" players, they just peform better under pressure then other people. But as far as actual skill goes in the game (where mindset isn't relevant)

1. Ken (if he still played would easily defeat everyone)

2. Bombsoldier

3. Azen

4. Dark "Perfect dark" mexican fox main, hes tech skill video is self-explanitory, nobody else can keep up with that high level of tech skill, except the 3 players posted above.

5. SpaceFalcon, not a known player and only plays a couple friendlies like once a month but he can beat everyone if he attended every single national for a whole year
 
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