Who are the Top 10 Players of 2012?

[Ryobeat]

In my opinion, the top 10 would have to be

1.Armada
2.Mango
3.Hungrybox
4.Dr.PeePee
5.Mew2king
6.KirbyKaze
7.Jman
8.Hax
9.Kage
10.Axe

 

[Juggleguy]

It's too hard to say after the top 5. Just looking at your 6-10, any of those players could be replaced by any of the following in my opinion: S2J, Lovage, Shroomed, Zhu, Unknown

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Dont forget javi

 

[Kite91]

It's very early I think we would have a better idea after zenith maybe. But here's my list:

1. Armada
2. Mango
3. Hungrybox
4. Javi
5. Dr. PP
6. Mew2king
7. Hax
8. Ice
9. Kage
10. S2j

 

[It's me Q]

It's too hard to say after the top 5. Just looking at your 6-10, any of those players could be replaced by any of the following in my opinion: S2J, Lovage, Shroomed, Zhu, Unknown

And possibly darkrain after his return?

 

[Wizzrobe]

And possibly darkrain after his return?

Darkrain is probably to rusty right now from being retired. It will probably be quite a while before he makes it into top 10.

 

[Warhawk]

It's too hard to say after the top 5. Just looking at your 6-10, any of those players could be replaced by any of the following in my opinion: S2J, Lovage, Shroomed, Zhu, Unknown

Don't forget about Wobbles

 

[Shroomed]

I'm loling at these lists.

Ice above S2J?
Kage over S2J/Axe?
Axe over me?
Javi 4th??? (I'm assuming this is because he beat PP which is stupid since it's just ONE set and by that logic I should be decently higher)

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

It is kinda weird that after two very nice showings shroomed isn't on ether of the lists

 

[Ryobeat]

I dont think Javi should be on the lists yet, based on 1 tournament either

 

[Bones0]

[collapse=Genesis II]1: Armada ($2,396.25) + ($1,000)
2: Mang0 ($1,198.13) + ($500)
3: Taj ($665.63) + ($250)
4: hungrybox ($426) + ($100)
5: M2K ($266.25) + ($50)
6: Shroomed ($159.75) + ($50)
7: Dr Peepee ($133.13) + ($25)
8: S2J ($79.88) + ($25)[/collapse]

[collapse=Apex 2012]1: Armada ($3,046.50)
2: Hungrybox ($1489.40)
3: Mango ($804.00)
4: Javi ($536.00)
5: Dr Peepee ($270.80)
5: KirbyKaze ($270.80)
7: Hax ($169.25)
7: Shroomed ($169.25)[/collapse]

Are people ****ing dense or something? Especially loling at Ice. He got 33rd at Apex. HTF is he even being considered for Top 10?

 

[Jockmaster]

Not to mention that Amsah is probably better than KK so there's no reason the latter should be in a top 10 list without the former

My personal 10:
1)Armada (duh)
2)Mango/Hbox
3)Mango/Hbox
4)Dr. PP
5)M2K
6)Shroomed
7)Taj
8)Amsah
9)Wobbles
10)Axe/Hax/S2J/Lucky/Zhu

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

^
Hard to say.
Amsah has underperformed at all US tournaments with the exception of Pound IV

one could argue that Kirbykaze is indeed better than Amsah

 

[JonnyW]

^
Hard to say.
Amsah has underperformed at all US tournaments with the exception of Pound IV

one could argue that Kirbykaze is indeed better than Amsah

Kirbykaze IS better than Amsah. Pretty sure M2K and KK are the best Sheiks. Then probably Tope/Amsah/Overtriforce

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

I'm loling at these lists.

Ice above S2J?
Kage over S2J/Axe?
Axe over me?
Javi 4th??? (I'm assuming this is because he beat PP which is stupid since it's just ONE set and by that logic I should be decently higher)

and pp has beaten javi in 0 sets. why should pp be above him? >.>

 

[JPOBS]

1. Bobby Scarduzio aka Scar aka The Most Electrifying Man in Melee aka The People Champion

 

[-ACE-]

and pp has beaten javi in 0 sets. why should pp be above him? >.>

flawless logic.

 

[Xyzz]

1. Armada
2. Mango / HBox
4. PeePee / M2k

6. Kirbykaze
7. Shroomed
8. Wobbles / Fly
10. Hax / S2J

but yeah, after the top5 it really becomes pretty arbitrary; so many people who can all beat each other depending on the daily form sooo much. (I have no idea what to make of Javi, so I didn't include him).

 

[JustBlind]

and pp has beaten javi in 0 sets. why should pp be above him? >.>

Agreed 100%. Btw, pp has beaten me in 0 sets too; just putting that out there.

Armada/mango
mango/armada
pp
hbox
m2k
shroomed
axe
s2j (though he's getting a lot better really fast)
kk (fox ~.~)
lots of ppl depending on practice

 

[Blistering Speed]

More ****ing Shroomed.

 

[Mike G]

[collapse=Genesis II]1: Armada ($2,396.25) + ($1,000)
2: Mang0 ($1,198.13) + ($500)
3: Taj ($665.63) + ($250)
4: hungrybox ($426) + ($100)
5: M2K ($266.25) + ($50)
6: Shroomed ($159.75) + ($50)
7: Dr Peepee ($133.13) + ($25)
8: S2J ($79.88) + ($25)[/collapse]

[collapse=Apex 2012]1: Armada ($3,046.50)
2: Hungrybox ($1489.40)
3: Mango ($804.00)
4: Javi ($536.00)
5: Dr Peepee ($270.80)
5: KirbyKaze ($270.80)
7: Hax ($169.25)
7: Shroomed ($169.25)[/collapse]

Are people ****ing dense or something? Especially loling at Ice. He got 33rd at Apex. HTF is he even being considered for Top 10?

lol thats because Shroomed is a negro. I thought this was obvious already.

 

[Codi]

1. mango
2. armada
3. pp
4. hbox
5. m2k
6. shroomed
7. kirbykaze/javi
8. hax$
9. lovage/jman
10. axe/zhu

 

[Habefiet]

1. Armada--the clear best right now. Dude's lost one set and no tournaments in over a year now, if I'm not mistaken. In singles, that is.

2/3/4. Mango/PP/HBox--Not clear where to put these three. My inclination pre-Apex would have been Mango/PP/HBox, which is why I put them in that order, but watching Mango lose convincingly to Armada and HBox shook up my perceptions of both Mango and HBox, hence my uncertainty as to where to put them now.

5. M2K--Kind of the last barrier between good and god, so to speak. Not as good as the people above him, definitely better than those below.

6/7/8/9/10. Kirbykaze/Shroomed/Wobbles/Hax/Javi. Not sure what order to put these five in either (I put them in the order I would choose if someone was holding me at gunpoint and demanding an answer, but it's far from certain). In my opinion, these are the five players closest to breaking into godhood. They've all performed well against god level players before, sometimes pulling sets off of them, and with one exception consistently either place top ten or only don't because they get bracket-wrecked and face god level players early. Javi is the exception here since he's only been around once, and I do believe it's a little too early to say too much about him, but I guess I have faith. Consider his placement here a vote of confidence.

 

[leffen]

PP should definitely be below Javi if we are fair. Yes, PP has won more tournaments in the US but Javi has dominated his region for years. When these regions collided Javi dominated PP, adding to that it was Javi who traveled, not PP.


You can argue for it being "Just one set" but that is extremely biased tbh. The fact that is that it is their ONLY set (and tournament) and javi won 2-0.


and anyone ranking Armada as anything but a clear #1 is stupid. He has a positive record against every top player... how can you even contest it

 

[Jockmaster]

Kirbykaze IS better than Amsah. Pretty sure M2K and KK are the best Sheiks. Then probably Tope/Amsah/Overtriforce

I'm not sure how you can definitively say this. I agree that M2K is the best, but there is no reason to be sure that KK is better than Amsah. Amsah did have a disappointing showing at APEX 2012, but besides that he pretty much has been the pwnage. He has beaten Tope AND Overtriforce, and never lost to them so they are pretty much solidly below him.

I guess it's a matter of opinion, but considering the only person Amsah consistently has trouble with is Armada, I would confidently put him in my top 10.

 

[leffen]

Amsah recently lost to remen, overtriforce, adam and many others.

He is not 2nd in europe anymore and since he went inactive he hasn't been for a while

 

[Habefiet]

PP should definitely be below Javi if we are fair. Yes, PP has won more tournaments in the US but Javi has dominated his region for years. When these regions collided Javi dominated PP, adding to that it was Javi who traveled, not PP.


You can argue for it being "Just one set" but that is extremely biased tbh. The fact that is that it is their ONLY set (and tournament) and javi won 2-0.


and anyone ranking Armada as anything but a clear #1 is stupid. He has a positive record against every top player... how can you even contest it

You can't really just look at that one set though. Javi lost to players that PP has consistently beaten. Putting Javi at fourth-ish in the world based on one tournament IS an overstep (unless you're saying that PP is not top five). While Javi has indeed dominated his entire region for a long time, it simply remains to be seen whether he can beat other dominant players that he didn't face at Apex.

In my opinion.

Will agree on the Armada issue though. There's some mad bias going on, and I don't even think it's US bias, I just think it's Mango bias. If HBox was the clear best right now, they'd still be saying Mango was number one.

Though Armada does have a losing record to SilentSpectre. :D Or did they meet again after Pound IV? I don't remember.

God, someone should compile the most amusing win-loss records out there. SilentSpectre > Armada, Taj > Mango... Good stuff. Though as I say I may be unaware of or simply forgetting other times that those players have met in bracket.

 

[TheLake]

I think all PP should be higher than javi

because pp has won a national before

Beating armada and hbox

Hes beaten everyone before actually lol

like beating armada alone should warrant being higher

 

[ajp_anton]

Javi lost to Lovage and HBox. Actually losing to Lovage should bring him down a bit. I know it's just one loss, and he later beat him, but the whole issue here is that we have very few sets to go on.

And yes, he's been dominating in his own area, but I think it's a valid assumption that before two communities meet, the bigger one can be considered better. Europe proved to be at least somewhat competitive against the bigger US scene, but Mexico is even smaller than that.
I'm sure there's lots of US bias that they are the only ones that should count (you suck unless you prove yourself in a US tournament), but the fact is that they have the biggest scene and noone has beaten them yet (I'm talking overall level, not Armada being alone at the top).

 

[Deleted member]

Scene size doesn't matter it's about how good the top players are in a region

And I've heard mexicos top 10 is very very strong

 

[ajp_anton]

Sure it's possible that he's another Armada, but we can't really make that assumption based on videos alone. This is another case of US and Europe arguing whether Europe actually has any good players. We can't know for sure before people actually play against each other, and the sad truth is that Americans just won't travel.

 

[King5280]

other than the twins who are mexico's well known smashers?

 

[Ryuker]

Amsah recently lost to remen, overtriforce, adam and many others.

He is not 2nd in europe anymore and since he went inactive he hasn't been for a while

Then who is?

 

[Beat!]

imo

Amsah is clearly not as good as he used to be (relative to the top, that is).
Shroomed is definitely top 10.
Armada is #1 by ****ing default come on.

 

[PGH Carroll]

1 armada
2 mango
3 hbox
4 PP
5 m2k
6 javi
7 KK
8 shroomed
9 lovage
10 axe

jesus.... there so many good players.. i could probably do a top 50 and still feel like im leaving a lot of really good players out

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Agreed 100%. Btw, pp has beaten me in 0 sets too; just putting that out there.

Armada/mango
mango/armada
pp
hbox
m2k
shroomed
axe
s2j (though he's getting a lot better really fast)
kk (fox ~.~)
lots of ppl depending on practice

yes but you have never played pp in tournament then, unless it was 3 billion years ago or something.
javi has and he won. it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to assume that pp is better. what would such an argument be based on?

I'm not sure how you can definitively say this. I agree that M2K is the best, but there is no reason to be sure that KK is better than Amsah. Amsah did have a disappointing showing at APEX 2012, but besides that he pretty much has been the pwnage. He has beaten Tope AND Overtriforce, and never lost to them so they are pretty much solidly below him.

I guess it's a matter of opinion, but considering the only person Amsah consistently has trouble with is Armada, I would confidently put him in my top 10.

indeed hes never ever lost a tournament vs the other top players in holland like remen etc, especially not lately. oh wait

 

[Wobbles]

yes but you have never played pp in tournament then, unless it was 3 billion years ago or something.
javi has and he won. it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to assume that pp is better. what would such an argument be based on?

You can't make conclusive statements based off single points of data.

We know Javi beat PP once. What that tells is nothing more or less than the fact that, within their respective ranges of skill and performance, Javi is capable of beating PP.

In turn that means Javi is REALLY FLIPPING GOOD. Does it mean he is a one-trick pony? Does it mean that his adaptability is higher or lower? Does it mean he will lose if they play more, or win, or the trend will even out? Would PP adjust to Javi's particular pressure strategies and start ****** him, and would Javi counter-adjust to stay ahead? Or would he start getting 3 stocked? We don't know.

PP has more points of data to tell us where he stands in relation to other people. Javi has one tournament in America.

And before you accuse me of USA bias, trust me: if PP beat him in their next set, and everybody started saying "see PP is actually better lolz" I would say the same thing. To tell who is better among two players, you need to see how they perform relative to each other and against each other. Seeing them both play lots of the same people would help get a more conclusive answer, as well.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

he has more points of data if you look only at flopmerican tournaments only and ignore the existance of the mexican scene, which might be better then the flopmerican scene overall for all we know.

not saying that javi is clear cut better: i said that assuming that pp is better is ********, which you seem to agree with =P.
if one necessarily wants to decide which is most likely better between the two, you'd have to go with javi, since he won.

also, thanks for indirectly reminding me to check out your blog again =D

 

[Codi]

so since PP lost to javi
and javi lost lovage
then javi beat lovage
its safe to assume that PP and lovage are either equal or lovage is better? see the logic? one win doesn't mean anything -.-

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

inui logic is insignificant and has never had any meaning or weight in any argument. now go **** yourself.