Who are the Top 10 Players of 2012?

[The Star King]

Dude, SK, you're wrong. Obviously if Axe had never done well, people wouldn't top-10 him. But people are arguing that even though he top-5'd a bunch of stuff a year ago, he wouldn't be appearing in so many modern top-10's if he didn't play an awesome mid-tier character. Seems reasonable; I don't think a falco player with this many disappointing performances in a row would still get top-10 love.

O rly? People still put players like Jman and Lucky in the top 10 despite them falling a bit off the map. Jman got 25th at Apex, and Lucky got 25th at Genesis 2.

Everyone loves watching the underdog, you can't possibly deny that.

Yes.

If an underdog does something impressive that someone else has done several times before, don't you still feel that the underdog is better?

No.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

This is an issue with you not having a soul, so I don't think we can continue.

 

[The Star King]

More of an issue of you having no evidence of people overrating Axe compared to overrating other players such as Jman or Lucky. ggs

If being able to view things in an objective light means I don't have a soul then OK I guess

 

[tarheeljks]

O rly? People still put players like Jman and Lucky in the top 10 despite them falling a bit off the map. Jman got 25th at Apex, and Lucky got 25th at Genesis 2.

to be fair lucky beat s2j a month or two ago. not that that makes him a candidate for this list, just saying he's done something since genesis to suggest it was a fluke

 

[Ryobeat]

to be fair lucky beat s2j a month or two ago. not that that makes him a candidate for this list, just saying he's done something since genesis to suggest it was a fluke

If your gonna say that lucky beat S2J a month or 2 ago, then am i able to say that Axe beat Lovage who placed 9th, and has beaten S2J at local tournaments?

 

[X-Vena]

Legit. Probably the best list I've seen

I dont thnik so

javi is top10 clearly

 

[Grim Tuesday]

More of an issue of you having no evidence of people overrating Axe compared to overrating other players such as Jman or Lucky. ggs

If being able to view things in an objective light means I don't have a soul then OK I guess

We're talking about people's opinions, objectivity is irrelevant.

You have no soul because unlike 99% of the human population, you don't subconsciously consider the efforts of an underdog more impressive than those of a non-underdog.

This is such a common thing, its ingrained into society.

For example: Rich people are selfish, pompous douchebags until you learn that they didn't inherit their money, but worked their way up from nothing and overcame many hardships to get where they are.

 

[JPOBS]

I think it has more to do with his playstyle than his character why people put axe in top 10, despite clearly being inconsistent.

It's like, after the guaranteed top 5, there are so many arguable people who could go in 6-10, but that takes brain power, effort and reasoning ability actually try . so people just go "f*** it, he has a awesome style so why not"

 

[X-Vena]

other than the twins who are mexico's well known smashers?

Ex
Yu
Valdo
Aza
Rael
Tuty (jpg)
Enga
Wox
Rojo
Batu
and more

 

[tarheeljks]

If your gonna say that lucky beat S2J a month or 2 ago, then am i able to say that Axe beat Lovage who placed 9th, and has beaten S2J at local tournaments?

you and i are not talking about the same thing. he's pointing to (relatively) supbar results of lucky's from nearly a year ago. i'm not directly making any comments about lucky's ability relative to axe, or making a case for him being in the top 10. i'm just saying genesis 2 was a while ago and there is more relevant info so saying he got 25th there is not indicative of his present skill level

edit: i get how that could be interpreted as me softly pushing him for top 10, but that's not my intent. just saying to use a diff example

 

[Bing]

This arguement is going no where.I really hope Axe steps in and clears it up himself.

Legit though, I agree with the statement that Axe's accomplishments and current status are looked more highly upon because of character and style.

Like it was stated, If it his Falco, his accomplishments and current placings do not warrant that he currently be top 10 in the world.

 

[Battlecow]

Lucky won a fairly stacked Socal tourney a month or so ago

Jman did better than axe at Gen 2 and Apex, I still wouldn't put him top 10 but eh.

 

[Lovage]

axe was definitely arguable for top 10 in 2010 and 2011 but for this thread i don't think he's earned it yet (it's only april)

If your gonna say that lucky beat S2J a month or 2 ago, then am i able to say that Axe beat Lovage who placed 9th, and has beaten S2J at local tournaments?

edit: wait what? lol, you barely know what you're talking about here. i beat axe at genesis (and nwm last month) and s2j beats ME at local tournaments.

 

[SSBMLahti]

To be honest, I think the top 10 at this present time would be:

1. Armada
2. Hungrybox
3. Dr.PeePee
4. Mango
5. Mew2King

After the top 5 if becomes much more difficult to decide the next 5 players, and the order in which they're placed:

6. Fly Amanita
7. Smoke2Jointz
8. Wobbles
9. KirbyKaze
10. Matt07

 

[Bing]

Fly and S2j over KK?

Your Location says Canada

Your response

Not very Canadian.

edit: wait what? lol, you barely know what you're talking about here. i beat axe at genesis (and nwm last month) and s2j beats ME at local tournaments.

Shhh he's new here and hasnt learned yet XD

 

[Fly_Amanita]

While it would be cool if I had a legitimate case for being so high, I definitely do not.

 

[Ryobeat]

axe was definitely arguable for top 10 in 2010 and 2011 but for this thread i don't think he's earned it yet (it's only april)



edit: wait what? lol, you barely know what you're talking about here. i beat axe at genesis (and nwm last month) and s2j beats ME at local tournaments.

Sorry, i said that from what i heard. I cant find those tournament results, but from what i heard, something happened last stock last match, and he won. >_> SO BESIDES ME BEING STUPID AND GETTING WRONG INFORMATION TOGETHER, legitamate question; Hasnt he been placing 3rd-5th at local tournaments? And apex he was having a bad pikachu day(supposedly) , and Axe isnt top 10, i just came in with an argument because i thought someone compared him to lucky/jman that i misinterpreted

 

[The Star King]

Lucky won a fairly stacked Socal tourney a month or so ago

Jman did better than axe at Gen 2 and Apex, I still wouldn't put him top 10 but eh.

Wut Jman wasn't at Genesis 2

 

[Bing]

If you can do better then someone at a tourney that you yourself werent even at... damn you're either a) ****ing amazing b) They did really bad

 

[SSBMLahti]

Fly and S2j over KK?

Your Location says Canada

Your response

Not very Canadian.



Shhh he's new here and hasnt learned yet XD

I tried not to favour KK just because he's a fellow Canadi-ehn

While it would be cool if I had a legitimate case for being so high, I definitely do not.

I honestly couldn't think of anyone else to put down. But come to think of it...maybe Shroomed?

 

[Ryobeat]

NEW TOP 10 LIST

1.Armada
2.Mango
3.Hungrybox
4.Dr.Peepee.
5.KirbyKaze
6.Shroomed
7.Wobbles
8.Mew2king
9.Hax
10.No idea >.<

I put Mew2king lower and KK higher because this is Best of 2012. And where would MacD be in all this? Just wondering ._.

 

[Bing]

Maybe Shroomed?

The mans got top 10 in the last like 4 nationals he attended..

okay exaggeration, but still..Shroomed is defs top 10 lol

 

[Ryobeat]

I put shroomed as 6, would it be fair to put MacD as 10? or would that belong to someone else who might've performed better(NOT SAYING NAMES, im not taking anymore guesses XD) maybe could be replaced by Lovage, S2J, or someone else

 

[Shroomed]

Maybe Shroomed?

The mans got top 10 in the last like 4 nationals he attended..

okay exaggeration, but still..Shroomed is defs top 10 lol

The last 3.

 

[ajp_anton]

If you can do better then someone at a tourney that you yourself werent even at... damn you're either a) ****ing amazing b) They did really bad

Reminds me of a random-seeded tournament where some guy placed worse than a bye.

 

[twizzlerj]

Reminds me of a random-seeded tournament where some guy placed worse than a bye.

that must have hurt their feelings lol wow that sounds discouraging

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

@Bing I don't necessarily think that Zhu is top 10, just that I find it surprising all the people who consider Axe in the top 10 in comparison to how few people are even throwing Zhu's name around when they are fairly near in abilities I'd say.

 

[Beat!]

Wobbles is better than Fly.

 

[ajp_anton]

that must have hurt their feelings lol wow that sounds discouraging

Well, let's say he's not the most popular guy, so that just made it even more funny =).
He managed to face two top players immediately, one of which had also faced a top player and got to the losers bracket. Elsewhere a bye met a bye and advanced farther up the bracket =).

 

[Prince_Abu]

javis definitely top 10, even tho he hasnt played many us tournaments u can just watch how he plays and tell

 

[Jockmaster]

I have taken more games of armada (except for hbox which took 3 in a single set) during the last year but that doesn't make me top 10

I have also "owned" Armada (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2_8afY7q7A&feature=channel&list=UL&t=9m15s, and I usually win by a good margin when I take games).
The thing is, that doesn't really matter if you can't win an entire set. Placing higher is what you should rank skill off, not the fact that I /Axe have better combo games (or offense, in mangos/axe case) than players who place above us.

losing to lots of "worse" players is a huge weakness and should be considered when ranking people.
Consistency is amazingly hard to achieve =/

Don't you play Armada like...all the time though -_- I mean maybe you're right but doing well against him when you only see him at big nationals is significantly different than doing well when you play him all the time.

I would concede more to Shroomed's point of there being a lack of knowledge about Pika on Armadas part that made Axe look better.

I also don't understand this argument of "he's overrated because he uses a mid tier". Like, how can you overrate someone using a worse character? If he's performing as well as people using high tiers is it not logical he's BETTER than them? He's achieving the same amount of success with poorer tools.

I understand the "we don't know matchups!!1" argument, but it gets to the point where he cant keep winning with a mid tier off of surprise value.

Think about it, hypothetical scenario where a Kirby main goes and sorms on to the scene. He whoops many C tier players into the ground and goes on to defeat a ton of B tier and even A and S tier players somewhat convincingly. Could we not assume that this guy is an inherently amazing smash player? A player that, maybe given the time and motivation to use better chars, would definitely pervade the top eschalon of players?

The fact that Axe essentially DEFINES Pikas metagame is something in its own.

TL;DR you can't overrate someone using a mid tier char nearly as much as you can underrate them

 

[Warhawk]

Zhu you should get top 5 at the next national and prove everyone wrong

 

[Beat!]

Don't you play Armada like...all the time though -_- I mean maybe you're right but doing well against him when you only see him at big nationals is significantly different than doing well when you play him all the time.

They live on opposite coasts. They get to play each other at nationals/regionals, but it's not like they play every weekend...

 

[Armada]

I think Jockmaster still meant playing against each other at every tournament for a couple sets is still kinda much (we also play friendlis even if that usually is not that many per tournament).

And no offense to Leffen (he is hella good) but many times people that play me often (I think this is the case for all people) take more games or play closer then people in the same skill level does against me for example (was the same with CW)

 

[Beat!]

Yeah, true that. I just thought "all the time" was a bit of an exaggeration.

 

[Bing]

Don't you play Armada like...all the time though -_- I mean maybe you're right but doing well against him when you only see him at big nationals is significantly different than doing well when you play him all the time.

I would concede more to Shroomed's point of there being a lack of knowledge about Pika on Armadas part that made Axe look better.

I also don't understand this argument of "he's overrated because he uses a mid tier". Like, how can you overrate someone using a worse character? If he's performing as well as people using high tiers is it not logical he's BETTER than them? He's achieving the same amount of success with poorer tools.

I understand the "we don't know matchups!!1" argument, but it gets to the point where he cant keep winning with a mid tier off of surprise value.

Think about it, hypothetical scenario where a Kirby main goes and sorms on to the scene. He whoops many C tier players into the ground and goes on to defeat a ton of B tier and even A and S tier players somewhat convincingly. Could we not assume that this guy is an inherently amazing smash player? A player that, maybe given the time and motivation to use better chars, would definitely pervade the top eschalon of players?

The fact that Axe essentially DEFINES Pikas metagame is something in its own.

TL;DR you can't overrate someone using a mid tier char nearly as much as you can underrate them

Okay so lets explain this using the tier list.

The tier was developed based off Results and character match ups.

Characters like Fox,Falco, Sheik etc have very few bad matchups and a lot of good match ups.

Now lets look at a character like Pikachu. Pikachu is a mid tier character based on results and the number of good to bad match ups.

Therefore someone achieving the amount of success that Axe has had WITH pikachu is more impressive then if he had used a Character like Falco.

 

[Hax]

Axe is hands down top 10 most skilled players, unfortunately, top 10 best players is a different list

that being said, he could still be #10

 

[Bing]

I agree with that, he is very skilled, and his placing at Apex was not a good representation

 

[Beat!]

Axe is hands down top 10 most skilled players, unfortunately, top 10 best players is a different list

that being said, he could still be #10

Could you give an example of someone you consider to be less skilled than Axe while still being better than him?

 

[mhenlo]

Could you give an example of someone you consider to be less skilled than Axe while still being better than him?

most people consider Mango the most skilled but he is not the best.