Whats with people and Honor

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Sure let's do it.

Visual aid: I'll probably be wearing a "BW" hoodie with a Killer Bee on the back. It's hard to miss, other than us occasionally being swallowed by crowds and ****. xD

I'll look for you, I'll be wearing a red sweat shirt with white or brown pants. the noticeable thing will be the Tails hat or Sonic hat I'll be wearing.

 

[Orion*]

what type of loser plans their outfit like 6 months ahead of time for mlg.

 

[Damage Points]

what kind of person wears a video game hat lol.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

what type of loser plans their outfit like 6 months ahead of time for mlg.

Apparently I do, lol. Makes it easier for people to find me instead of yelling out Kbizzle!

 

[Eddie G]

what type of loser plans their outfit like 6 months ahead of time for mlg.

You talkin' to me or him? I only pointed out my jacket, which I usually wear to any tourney. =P

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You talkin' to me or him? I only pointed out my jacket, which I usually wear to any tourney. =P

He was talking about me, since I do plan my outfit before I go to tournaments.

 

[fkacyan]

what kind of person wears a video game hat lol.

>______________________________________________>

 

[GHNeko]

what kind of person wears a video game hat lol.

ಠ_ಠ

 

[da K.I.D.]

what type of loser plans their outfit like 6 months ahead of time for mlg.

Note that Ive never lived in the same region as him. But in every tourney Ive ever seen Ally at, In person or on video, hes always wearing the same Captain Falcon "Show me your Moves!" T-Shirt...

 

[Orion*]

Note that Ive never lived in the same region as him. But in every tourney Ive ever seen Ally at, In person or on video, hes always wearing the same Captain Falcon "Show me your Moves!" T-Shirt...

captain falcon, despite not being high on the tier list is like his favorite character, and ally has shown to be a proven outlier with him, however since the tournament is obviously not character viable he probably thinks of it as a long learned memento that gives him luck. he has to play snake not falcon :[

ಠ_ಠ

LOL

You talkin' to me or him? I only pointed out my jacket, which I usually wear to any tourney. =P

you both fail, but he obviously fails MUCH harder

what kind of person wears a video game hat lol.

LOL, i hope thats referencing cyanide

 

[bigbucks]

what kind of person wears a video game hat lol.

LMAO
10Loams

 

[Karcist]

stop being honorable people and make characters that have 7:3 or worse matchups be forced to play them.

there is literally no reason why everyone doesnt have a pocket ics, falco, D3, snake, mk, essentially all top and high tier characters that just absolutely **** 90% of the cast.

i see so many people play characters like fox in tournament, and stay mk, or go snake or something and im like wtf is wrong you. go ice climbers and double blind that ******, fox is not viable. or you see someone go D3, GO FALCO. i dont really see how a lot of characters make it out of pools, they are unviable as mains.

i see san winning with ike. WHERE ARE THE OLIMARS. char is mad easy to play, and 99-1s ike. not to knock san, hes an amazing player. i see yoshis and ZSS's place, where are the falcos? i see GaWs place, where are the diddy kongs?!?

if there is a character that has a 7:3 or harder matchup, you have no excuse to lose to them, at least on your cp. get your pocket top tiers out, time people out, and show people how gay this game is. kthnxbai

You're right, why don't we all just go MK.

O wait that would be stupid and that would make the game stupid.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

You're right, why don't we all just go MK.

O wait that would be stupid and that would make the game stupid.

It would also be playing to win.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

you both fail, but he obviously fails MUCH harder

Your funny.

 

[sunshade]

You're right, why don't we all just go MK.

O wait that would be stupid and that would make the game stupid.

We should all go metaknight. It is the best choice to make should your only objective be victory.

Playing to win is not an inherently bad thing it just happens to centralize the game if take to the extreme. You are acting like people who don't want to be put at a disadvantage are making the incorrect choice and making the game "stupid".

 

[Eddie G]

We should all go metaknight. It is the best choice to make should your only objective be victory.

Playing to win is not an inherently bad thing it just happens to centralize the game if take to the extreme. You are acting like people who don't want to be put at a disadvantage are making the incorrect choice and making the game "stupid".

Then pick MK and stfu about whatever everyone else uses. We don't need the ever-so-obvious play to win mindset drilled into our brains, especially those of us who understand it already. Why does this topic even exist honestly?

 

[Jack Kieser]

Then pick MK and stfu about whatever everyone else uses. We don't need the ever-so-obvious play to win mindset drilled into our brains, especially those of us who understand it already. Why does this topic even exist honestly?

HAI, Look guys! People aren't doing wat I does, so I am angrey! Make them play how I plaaaaaaaaay!1!! *anger anger* >: (

Seriously, KB wins. Play the **** game; if your strat is so raep, then you'll win. STFU and stop telling others how to play.

 

[1048576]

Because this is the Brawl Tactical Discussion, for the discussion of tactics in Brawl.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Because this is the Brawl Tactical Discussion, for the discussion of tactics in Brawl.

But this thread isn't for "tactical discussion", it's because Orion doesn't agree with how people choose their characters and because he wants to *****, moan, whine, and complain, starting another purely opinionated and argumentative thread in the process, until people change and play the way he wants them to.

This is a blog post. This isn't a discussion. There hasn't been one post of discussion in this thread. This thread is:

"Here's how I play, and others should play this way, too."
"Hmm... interesting point, but I like how I pl--"
"NO, PLAY LIKE THIS, ****IT! YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!!1!1"
" ... "

This thread has no point and is only here to incite arguments and flames. It needs to be closed, possibly moved to the blog section.

 

[Apollo$]

It depends but I'll counter pick to secure a win at a tournament, why make things hard when you can have the match already in your favor.

 

[sunshade]

Then pick MK and stfu about whatever everyone else uses. We don't need the ever-so-obvious play to win mindset drilled into our brains, especially those of us who understand it already. Why does this topic even exist honestly?

I am not trying to drill the play to win mentality into the minds of everyone, I am simply stating the fact that the most optimal strategy in brawl is to play metaknight. Assuming the goal is to win then everyone should play him. Obviously not everyone is playing to win, which is why we dont see everyone playing metaknight but that does not hinder from the truth of him being the best choice.

I didn't say go MK or you suck at the game, I am being very civil.

HAI, Look guys! People aren't doing wat I does, so I am angrey! Make them play how I plaaaaaaaaay!1!! *anger anger* >: (

Seriously, KB wins. Play the **** game; if your strat is so raep, then you'll win. STFU and stop telling others how to play.

Your right we should never give advice to anyone about how to play the game, ever. We should all "STFU and stop telling others how to play" and just let players engage in a less effective method of victory without any suggestions of improvement.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Your right we should never give advice to anyone about how to play the game, ever. We should all "STFU and stop telling others how to play" and just let players engage in a less effective method of victory without any suggestions of improvement.

Ok, absurdist. Keep on truckin' without actually reading.

Again, this is a forum about discussion. This thread is not open to discussion. You know what? Some people need to counterpick. Most times, counterpicking is beneficial. Sometimes, people do worse by counterpicking. Sometimes, people just don't want to counterpick.

Believe it or not, pretty much everyone on this forum knows what "play to win" means, and not everyone cares! I enter brackets, brackets I realistically cannot win. But, I do it because I enjoy it. To me, winning is fun, but losing isn't not fun, and so I don't care that I'm not playing MK, or playing gay, or playing with CP's.

Not everyone cares.

Hell, most people do not care.

The people you are speaking towards already play to win. Simple as that. This has been said before, many more times, and much more eloquently. Furthermore, in this thread, what matters is that people convert. As I said, Orion will continue to *****, and most likely, people like you will continue to argue, until everyone not doing what's in the OP starts doing what's in the OP. It's useless, and it's a waste of time, effort, and space. The people who want to do this already do, and the people who don't most likely never will, and it's all because that's how they prefer to play, something argumentation will not change anytime soon.

So, to recap:

*You're preaching to the choir
*The people not in the choir already know this, because it's common sense
*The people who aren't in the choir don't care.
*It's ok to give people advice, as long as you don't ***** that they aren't following it

/thread

 

[da K.I.D.]

captain falcon, despite not being high on the tier list is like his favorite character, and ally has shown to be a proven outlier with him, however since the tournament is obviously not character viable he probably thinks of it as a long learned memento that gives him luck. he has to play snake not falcon :[

I was posting what I said in responce to the point about planning outfits before tourneys, not character choice.

 

[Eddie G]

Hell ****ing yes, Kieser spittin' the truth. Get over yourself Orion.

Seriously, mods...this thread contributes nothing to the tactical discussion. This is a blog; Why is it still open?

 

[Orion*]

HAI, Look guys! People aren't doing wat I does, so I am angrey! Make them play how I plaaaaaaaaay!1!! *anger anger* >: (

because you dont do the same thing....

I SUMMON
-balanced brawl
- metaknightless brawl
- scrub brawl
- item brawl!

if you have any objections youre an outlier that plays to win and you arent catering to me. heres an arbitrary and biased crow flow chart so you stop having **** sores:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBiWtk2K85I&feature=related

 

[Masmasher@]

wow kiesers post was straight ether

 

[Orion*]

ether?

10char

 

[Jack Kieser]

What is this I don't even...

because you dont do the same thing....

I SUMMON
-balanced brawl...

It's in my sig. Shoot me.

- metaknightless brawl...

Similar, but different. People not CP'ing isn't hurting the community; MK, whether because of balance or because of stigma, is.

- scrub brawl...

I don't even know what this means.

- item brawl!

...my, what large balls you have. Read the thread: it explicitly states that it's not a replacement for vBrawl, only a side-project, and I have never personally attacked anyone for not playing ISP.

if you have any objections youre an outlier that plays to win and you arent catering to me. heres an arbitrary and biased crow flow chart so you stop having **** sores:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBiWtk2K85I&feature=related

FYI: I don't make those ****-charts; Crow! does.

EDIT: Ether? I'm curious, too.

 

[Orion*]

It's in my sig. Shoot me.

im not a fan of black on black crime

Similar, but different. People not CP'ing isn't hurting the community; MK, whether because of balance or because of stigma, is.

yes it is because if people start cping you get your precious char diversity LOL

...my, what large balls you have. Read the thread: it explicitly states that it's not a replacement for vBrawl, only a side-project, and I have never personally attacked anyone for not playing ISP.

did you read the thread? its about the counterpick system iirc

FYI: I don't make those ****-charts; Crow! does.

you use them? lol if you actually thought they where legit i dont think you wouldve said that XD

 

[MarKO X]

... winning is fun, but losing isn't not fun ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFCfUl1R7SQ&NR=1

 

[Masmasher@]

i dont usually co sign but...

ether= ****, dominance, truth AKA his post should have ended the thread lmao

 

[MarKO X]

i dont think keisser's post should have ended the thread.

if you're entering competitive Brawl tourneys knowing that you cannot win, you're not playing to win.

if you're not playing to win, how can you have an opinion about competitive Brawl?

is this not a competitive Brawl forum?

 

[Jack Kieser]

What kind of assumption is that?

I go into tournaments I know I cannot win. That doesn't mean I'm not trying my hardest. What are you trying to say, the only people playing to win are the people that do win? Are you telling me I enter tournaments with the express intent to lose?

Are you really saying that all of those hundreds of players that are entering tournaments that M2K or Ally are playing at are not playing to win because their statistical odds of winning are so low that they might as well be zero?

...you almost have as big (if as cancerous) a pair of balls as Orion!

Regardless of your asinine assertion, my point was completely valid and 100% accurate. It could have been my first post, and it would be no less accurate. Are you also trying to say that only seasoned veterans of Brawl can make astute observations about threads / posts / users / the community?

This is a competitive Brawl forum; I agree with that much. The rest of your post is garbage.

Now can a mod lock this topic? :/

 

[MarKO X]

But if you enter a tourney under the belief that you cannot win it, you psychologically can't try your hardest because you're limiting yourself under the thought, "well, I'm not going to win anyway."

What I'm saying is that people are not playing to win if you're entering a tourney with the explicit thought that you are going to lose. Playing to win is more than a play style; it's a mindset.

 

[Jack Kieser]

"Playing to win" is just that. That's it. Sirlin wrote page upon page to describe a common sense rule of psychology:

Playing to win is playing with the intent of winning.

As long as you perform to the top of your personal potential, you are playing to win. That's the only requirement. When I enter a tournament that I realistically cannot win, I'm at an advantage, not a disadvantage, by knowing my odds. I am being realistic. I am telling myself that I have to do the best I possibly can to win; I can't skirt by with minimal effort and win. The people who don't feel like their backs are in a corner are the people who aren't trying their hardest, because they don't think they need to; then, they get gimped at 15% on their first stock, their momentum is thrown, and they end up losing because they got lazy.

When I lose, it's because I am not good enough, because my "cornered" mindset tells me to fight like hell, because that's the only way I'm going to win.

See, I can use BS psychology and philosophy to prove random points, too! Now, get back on topic.

Oh, wait, the topic in this thread is pointless. Almost forgot. Oh, and nice job with forgetting to respond to the parts of my post that were on topic.

 

[AvaricePanda]

I don't see why the thread should be locked. Maybe at the core the idea is simple, but it's sparked conversation and thought of a competitive advantage—the counterpick system—that a lot of people aren't using and why they aren't.

Not to insult you, Kieser, but it just sounds like you think you know exactly why Orion posted the thread or the reasoning behind the ideas being discussed, and you think you're right. Saying, "oh this thread is wrong lock it," comes off as rude; if you honestly think this is just a giant flame war then just report it lol.

Really a large reason why recent discussion isn't on-topic is because of:
1) People posting rebuttals to the first post only, not bothering to read at least part of the rest of the thread, not trying to understand the big picture Orion's saying, etc.
2) People not picking up on Internet sarcasm (which honestly is difficult, but still).
3) People saying the thread should be locked because it's pointless.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Oh, on the contrary; I agree entirely with the premise of the thread. There is a CP system, and people don't use it, and it may cost them matches. I disagree with the manner of "discussion" going on in the thread, or rather, how this thread is 23 pages of people saying, "Yeah, good point, no one disagrees, but no one who isn't playing that way wants to play that way" and 23 pages of Orion et all saying "You're all stupid, play the way I tell you to."

Again, this thread isn't about discussion; it's about conversion. No one, not a single person, debates the benefits of CP'ing; some people say it takes more effort than maining one character, but everyone agrees, if you're capable of putting forth that effort, you'll be at an advantage. Again, 23 (now 24, but the last page has been about locking the thread, so it doesn't count) pages of thread and nothing new was really discussed.

Again, my main point was that this was a blog post, not a discussion thread. You can tell by the OP's wording and the caliber of discussion that this thread was posted because Orion felt like *****ing for 200 words. If the mods want to keep it open, fine, but it shouldn't be in Tactical, blocking up our page: it should be in Blog Posts with all of the other Op-ed pieces on SWF.

EDIT: <3's for KBizzle.

EDIT #2: Just realized, yeah, I don't think you "insulted" me, Avarice. I know, I'm a little passionate right now, but I really can't stand when people act like Orion has in this thread. Debate and discourse is one thing (I am a philosophy major, after all)... but, well, you know how I feel about this thread.

 

[Eddie G]

i dont think keisser's post should have ended the thread.

if you're entering competitive Brawl tourneys knowing that you cannot win, you're not playing to win.

if you're not playing to win, how can you have an opinion about competitive Brawl?

is this not a competitive Brawl forum?

And isn't this particular section called Brawl Tactical Discussion?

Kieser is right, there is no discussion in this thread, only a rant/blog about something that is already well known to most players who play this (and other) competitive games. Whether or not people choose to embrace the recommended tactics is their choice. Orion also continues to instigate an "agree with me or gtfo" protocol, which also doesn't encourage open discussion.

@ Avarice- I agree with you, however throughout the thread Orion has been displaying the attitude that I just described above. And his "point" is something that has been known for a long time, a very long time. What is there to possibly get out of this thread that would benefit healthy discussion/learning of the game that we haven't achieved before?

 

[Jack Kieser]

What is there to possibly get out of this thread that would benefit healthy discussion/learning of the game that we haven't achieved before?

N00b players who have never lurked / played in tournament might learn about the CP system... but there are stickies for that, stickies that are worded better and incite less flames than this thread.

If you've lurked, played competitive Brawl, or know who Sirlin is, this thread is useless.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Actually, I'm gonna disagree, valid critiques were brought to using the system to it's fullest potential, namely time requirement and diminishing returns, at least in the absolute pure form that he's suggesting.