What's the difference between Side-B and Down-B? [REVERSION: 8/18/09]

[Tenki]

Then you all get infractions and get banned for spamming in my thread.

Spoiler

10notah*lians=]

On topic:
There are a bunch of stuff I have to update from a few pages ago and I'm not gonna update it til the break lol. XD

 

[Jim Morrison]

Nap, you're using electricity to recharge it. GF fool.

 

[da K.I.D.]

+10 to tenki for pulling a spoiler to hidden color message combo

 

[infomon]

lolol agreed, didn't see that there.

o hai!

 

[darkNES386]

So um... what damage percentages make the most sense for the ASC>foostool? I would think at lower percents you would just want to settle for an aerial instead and deal damage. At higher percents (but before fair/uair could KO) you would be interested in doing a foostool to keep them closer to you and probably catch them off guard.

Edit: Then again, since it's harder to set up at higher percents... dono

 

[Kinzer]

*Raises hand*. I can actually use both wiimote and GCN controllers (I prefer wiimote) you never know when you need a spare wired controller.

Wow.

why would you put yourself at a disadvantage like that

btw what place did you get?

I don't know why, and I think I heard my TO say there were 24 teams, and my placing was really horrible... I lost the first match, and I got eliminated as well as my partner did in the loser's bracket. It's not worth putting down in Memphis' thread.

I don't really give you more respect using Wiimote. You're killing the invironment with your batteries so I HATE YOU. You're killing my earth! You should go to hell rly.

That's okay, wather you're serious or not, I'm going to be a proud Wiimote user, because I'm too God d*** lazy to take out the battery when I am at my house playing Brawl.

Then you all get infractions and get banned for spamming in my thread.

I know but I posted my stuff in the wrong thread. I can only hope Hyli *censored to avoid name dropping* spares my account soul.

 

[Tenki]

List of things to update (???)

Help me out here lol.

- SDJ can Z-drop items
- SDR loses speed over time
- Charge and losing double jumps - to confirm situations and stuff.
- ???

if I missed anything, tell me.


----------------------------

Hyli *censored to avoid name dropping*

That's how to do it.

So um... what damage percentages make the most sense for the ASC>footstool? I would think at lower percents you would just want to settle for an aerial instead and deal damage. At higher percents (but before fair/uair could KO) you would be interested in doing a foostool to keep them closer to you and probably catch them off guard.

Edit: Then again, since it's harder to set up at higher percents... dono

(SDR) --> SDJ --> footstool --> repeat works the most at low %'s cause the SDJ's knockback screws it up at higher %'s.

You can land an ASC (or Hop) > footstool at any % as long as you land it on/near their head.

 

[da K.I.D.]

side b hop has ALMOST set knockback.

sonic needs a set knockback move...

 

[Kinzer]

He does have one, it's called pummel.

 

[Napilopez]

He does have one, it's called pummel.

Lololol.

Tenki, wasnt there something infzy mentioned about SideB and DownB having a startup phase where they dont take jump data and stuff? Like before the aura appears of something.

 

[infomon]

- SDJ can Z-drop items
- SDR loses speed over time
- Charge and losing double jumps - to confirm situations and stuff.
- ???

if I missed anything, tell me.

- SD hop does 5%
- ASC does 6-11%
- SDR does between 4-11% depending on speed. On release (on a flat surface) it can be between 7-10%, you need an extraneous boost to crank it up to 11.
- SC is a cool way to stop a run (not sure this belongs in the OP)
- You can't jump immediately out of an SDJ, there seems to be a small time window in which you can attack out of it but can't jump out right away (so there's no "strange effect" / new spinshot from the SDR>SDJ transition)
- Maybe talk about the properties of side-B/down-B from a spring; like how SD cancels your vertical momentum, I guess. Also it's cool that ASC can have a hitbox going backwards if you get it fast enough. But this is all silliness I guess.

Tenki, wasnt there something infzy mentioned about SideB and DownB having a startup phase where they dont take jump data and stuff? Like before the aura appears of something.

Yeah, I've brought this up in a couple other places now (our critique of Anther in the Transcript thread, and now in dnes' G&W thread). Basically, SD and SC both have some opening frames wherein the spindash hasn't really started yet. It's the time before they could possibly have an aura. If you hop an empty SC (like it never gets an aura, you just tap down-B quick), there's no visual distinction between those startup frames and the ending lag, but there's a semantic difference. Landing in the startup frames, it doesn't qualify as landing in a spindash, so your spindash jump data is reset; you can jump out of your next spindash. But if you land at any time during a spindash -- including shield-cancelled ASC, an aerial screech-stop from ASC or SD, or even the ending lag of an empty (no-charge) ASC -- the spindash keeps the "jump data" information. So if you'd used your 2nd jump and you don't leave the ground, your next spindash will not be jump-cancellable.

I'm sure that was more text than necessary since y'all prolly know what I'm talking about, but I thought I'd spell it all out here so you needn't hunt details elsewhere. Let me know if something's not clear, as I tend to be overly verbose

 

[Tenki]

It's on a new page, so it's all good :3 easier to find.

Thanks.

 

[Tudor]

Just a heads up kinzer~ don't get too cocky =P

Modesty is a virtue!

Well it's good to hear you can come to more tourney's, hopefully you'll place better next time ^^

 

[Kinzer]

Oh hai Tudor what brings you to the back alley of SWF A.K.A. Sonic boards?

Anyway if I'm being cocky let me know, I must be giving off the wrong impression.

 

[Tudor]

I like other people's boards and sometimes I like to see what lucky says =P

In this instance I searched my name (it's kinda fun lol)

 

[da K.I.D.]

i wish i was famous enough for something to come up when i namesearch my self

but my name is so common i would never find anything that was actually about me lol

 

[Jim Morrison]

i wish i was famous enough for something to come up when i namesearch my self

but my name is so common i would never find anything that was actually about me lol

Same here :\

 

[Tudor]

Meh, famous doesn't mean pro though, i mean, look at me!

 

[NFS (sonic)]

Thanks, I always wondered how I did a Spinshot, cause I did it by accident and couldnt do it since then.

 

[Browny]

lulz even i get stuff come up when i name search

although its not always something good... generally poking fun at my tourneys only having like 20 people >_<

 

[aeghrur]

I never get anything from aeghrur cuz no one can spell them, lol.

 

[~TBS~]

threads from the sonic forums pop up for me.

 

[Kinzer]

Okay guys, enough namedropping, moar real discussion so this doesn't get closed.

 

[~TBS~]

right, kinzer. so i was talking with infzy about the FSJ after side-b. pretty old right? but not if you spring when the person hits the ground and a spring hits them locking them to the floor to a canceled dair to a uair...just happened to see a vid about it.

 

[da K.I.D.]

its better to do a jab lock instead of an up air.

speaking of side b hop to footstool

i figured out a slightly easier, possibly less effective way to start a jab lock

 

[~TBS~]

how? Dont tease us like that...

 

[Sonic Orochi]

This must be aeons old, but:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heEflKvN6ts

lol, did it on accident. It's been so long since I last played Brawl so my movements were all awkward and sloppy. D:

 

[Kinzer]

Uhm... from my knowledge, this is what could've happened...

You where probably DIing down when Diddy hit you, which made it look like it can spike (or it really can, I don't know about Diddy...), and then you jumped out of the knockback of the Smash attack...

Did you happen to do an ASC when you got hit or something? One of Infzy's instructional videos explains that SD and SC will negate all knockback on an attack, and this is probably what happened.

I also happen to notice that before you got sent offstage, you rickoshayed (spelling check?) off the ground, and with the already lack of hitstun in Brawl, when you bounced off the stage made it completely vanish, therefore allowing you more time to react.

I'm not being very clear on this, but I think it's nothing that can be manipulated unless you happen to hit an object before you get sent to a blastzone.

 

[Camalange]

Well reading the description on the YouTube video...
DI down + ASC + Jump cancel = ?
So I'd have to say Kinzer's explanation is pretty legit.

 

[Kinzer]

I should be a Smash Researcher, amirite?

 

[Camalange]

I should be a Smash Researcher, amirite?

Maybeh, but you wouldn't be very good because you didn't even bother to read the YouTube description, telling you exactly what he did.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

xD

Well, back to DotA, then.

 

[infomon]

Hummmm, I think Kinzer's right. Teching the ground must have brought you out of hitstun, but you were still flying away in knockback so you could ASC and immediately jump-cancel it (or was that a spinshot? no matter). Pretty awesome way to recover, lol... but good luck getting those floor-techs.

 

[Tenki]

Hi Sonic Orochi! =D

I watched that video over and over again to came to this conclusion.

Spoiler

the song makes me lol

edit:
He actually didn't tech the floor.
He bounced off it and immediately started down-B. Bouncing negates hitstun, so it allowed him to charge as soon as he bounced. The release of the ASC reset the horizontal momentum altogether, but in this case, it was a spinshot cancelled by a F-air (which is why the spinshot didn't go so far).
What's surprising is how quick the charge is - for him to double jump (spinshot) out of it so close to the stage after flying away from it so quickly lol.

edit2: Note- the spoiler is totally true.

edit3:
hey infzy, 1:13 on your video is a lie.

SDR won't end if it goes too slowly. You can shield cancel it if it goes into "ASC ball" form (the complete circle, which it changes to when it's going too slow), but it won't end.

 

[infomon]

I agree with Tenki's super-secret edit1.

hey infzy, 1:13 on your video is a lie.

SDR won't end if it goes too slowly. You can shield cancel it if it goes into "ASC ball" form (the complete circle, which it changes to when it's going too slow), but it won't end.

liek, nowai!! Gosh, when did you realize that SDR becomes a "rolling ASC" when it goes too slow? That's pretty weird. I started experimenting with it, here's what I noticed:

1. If an SDR gets too slow, it becomes a "rolling ASC"; you can get them from hills, collisions, SDR-turnarounds, etc.
2. The rolling-ASC has no hitbox; it's too slow. If it speeds up, it just becomes an SDR again.
3. You cannot change its velocity with the control-stick. Tilting backwards causes you to instantly screech-stop (not SDR-turnaround); tilting forwards does nothing
4. You can shield out of rolling-ASC. This also means you can instantly grab, spot-dodge, or dodge-roll.
5. Attack or Jump input will cause you to SDJ, which comes out with slow horizontal airspeed.
6. If you reach the end of a platform, you'll just stay spinning at the edge, unless you tilt forward, in which case you'll roll off into an airborne ASC.

Nothing too special, sadly. I have not been able to spinshot (or other strangeness) out of the transition from SDR to rolling-ASC, but I doubt anything weird exists there, and it'd be nigh impossible for it to matter.

I wondered for a bit if this spindash phase might've been related to the recent ["SDR Madness"] that Napz and I found, but I don't think so, since the SDR wasn't going slow lol, and we're pretty sure our explanation for that event is sound.

 

[SonicX580]

Hey guys can I ask you a question? I saw a vid on a Sonic use a double spring jump so how do you do that? also can you use double spring jump after using the double spring so can someone explain?

 

[infomon]

If someone footstools Sonic, he gets to use his spring again. This happens even if it's a "phantom" footstool, where Sonic suffers no consequence from getting footstooled. So a lot of vids had ppl confused where it doesn't look like the opponent footstools, but they did, and so Sonic gets to spring twice.

 

[SonicX580]

Thanks that explain it I tried that for a while and nothing.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

My Meowth should have evolved but **** that ****.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

My Kadabra evolved a while ago. He's getting pretty dam good now

Perhaps I should evolve him into an Alakazam sometime soon...

P.S infzy, your explanational video on Side B/Down + B is too good