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Del Money

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Yeah, I was thinking it's gonna turn SSBB into like Mario Party, i.e. those mini-games where you wanna knock people off the sides and you can stun them by jumping on their heads, so everyone is jumping around and punching like mad.
yeah its kinda silly. i guess if the Wii is gonna be innovative why not make Brawl innovative as well (though i figured crawl ad possibly air grabs/throws would be enough). ps - your combo vid was sexy-good...mostly ganon pwnage but still sexy-good. fiiting music choice too
Wow...And to account on the fact that I hop around already 90% of the time with my main Mario.That tech right there opens up HUGE doors for more potienial follow ups.Iam pretty sure weight is almost gonna be a factor in it all,not to forget to mention that this balances the *** outta this game now since its a universal technique.Everyones got a meteor now..
true but remember the whole "lets-be-cool-and-try-touse-Mario's-meteor-in-melee-but-fail-miserably" phase? same things gonna happen here except 5 times more ********
Btw,did this site crashed or something last night? I remember we were giving that lessen on "skeet",then next thing I know"ERROR FROM MCFOX<ERROR UP THE ASER MATE<DATABATE KNOCKED YOU THE *** OUT!":laugh: :laugh:
hahahaha yet again D-Boy for teh pwnz
 

RDK

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i wonder how hard this will be to pul off with no interference....easy or difficult.....noob or pro
Like I said, it will probably turn out to be not that big of a deal. Especially during an air combat-heavy level, like Skyworld, you'll the the ****e beaten out of you if you go soaring through the air to tootstool someone. Even if you do complete the footstool, then you have to worry about getting pwned on reentry, after you've bounced back into the air.

It looks like it's a lot easier to get intercepted / spiked by someone than complete a footstool.
 

Del Money

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i wonder how hard this will be to pul off with no interference....easy or difficult.....noob or pro
actually now that you mention it, i must say it might be a good technique for edgeguards primarily. cuz DK is my 2nd main, i how frustrating it is to get those satisfying spikes against more advanced players (although headbutt-edgeguarding Falco/Fox forward+b is pirceless fun hhahahaha). since some characters have a frustrating lag with spikes, this might be a big help to them

@RDK
you guys probably scarred poor ethan for life now. and did you see yesterday how 1337marth is trying to piss me off...unbe-****ing-lievable
 

RDK

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@RDK
you guys probably scarred poor ethan for life now. and did you see yesterday how 1337marth is trying to piss me off...unbe-****ing-lievable
LOL...he PM'd DonkeySmasher and Got Blood like 50 times yesterday...

However, I wouldn't worry about 1337 Marth. What's he gonna do--one-line you do death?


actually now that you mention it, i must say it might be a good technique for edgeguards primarily. cuz DK is my 2nd main, i how frustrating it is to get those satisfying spikes against more advanced players (although headbutt-edgeguarding Falco/Fox forward+b is pirceless fun hhahahaha). since some characters have a frustrating lag with spikes, this might be a big help to them
The whole reason some characters had frustrating lag with spikes is because those characters had an ugodly spike (Marth, Sheik, Falco, etc.). The LAST thing we want is for those characters to have reduced D-titlt lag ('cept Falco, cuz I main him :lick:)

@narutognt:

 

Dragonboy2k4

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true but remember the whole "lets-be-cool-and-try-touse-Mario's-meteor-in-melee-but-fail-miserably" phase? same things gonna happen here except 5 times more ********
But see man,this **** is different this time.Its all basically a guess game in the air now,kinda like Tekken in a cartoonish way.For example,If DK is on the recovery and Mario is awaiting,Mario doesnt have to use an "A" aerial attack him to force him out,but at the same time,if he chooses to do the jumpstool,DK can take advantage of Mario and attack him before he can get the jumpstool off,thus increasing DK chances of making it on back even greater.Also take not that if Mario did try to chase him down with an "A"move,he would be putting himself at risk as well.{Iam leaving out the melee techs that would null that to hell :laugh:}

Now,"IF"this technique somehow is non meteor cancelable,what I said above will make this game more technical than before.
 

A-Laon

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"Waaaaaaaaahhh I don't wanna press a lot of buttons."
And so they make the button pressing easier.

"Waaaaaaaaahhh I play Yoshi and need to whine that his godly double jump isn't enough."
And so they give him recovery potential with Up+B.

"Waaaaaaaaahhh my character has a poor / hard to land meteor but I want one!"
And so they give meteors to everyone.


If you want something in the game to be dumbed down to a stupid level because you're too weak to deal with it, just make sure to keep whining and Nintendo will see you through.
 

RDK

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But see man,this **** is different this time.Its all basically a guess game in the air now,kinda like Tekken in a cartoonish way.For example,If DK is on the recovery and Mario is awaiting,Mario doesnt have to use an "A" aerial attack him to force him out,but at the same time,if he chooses to do the jumpstool,DK can take advantage of Mario and attack him before he can get the jumpstool off,thus increasing DK chances of making it on back even greater.Also take not that if Mario did try to chase him down with an "A"move,he would be putting himself at risk as well.{Iam leaving out the melee techs that would null that to hell }
In this situation, I wouldn't footstool OR go for a midair Smash. Just do a short-hop off from the edgehog, and plant a sex kick right in Donkey Kong's face.

Mario's Sex Kick > DK's Up-B

Edit: A-laon, your sig is hilarous, lol...
 

NilliX

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I Cant Wait For Brawl To Come Out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I appear to be drowning in punctuation.

I'll accept the fact that Footstool jumps are in and they're not going out. It will add a new dimension to Smash Bros. for sure, but something about it just annoys me...
 

ness4life

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"Waaaaaaaaahhh I don't wanna press a lot of buttons."
And so they make the button pressing easier.

"Waaaaaaaaahhh I play Yoshi and need to whine that his godly double jump isn't enough."
And so they give him recovery potential with Up+B.

"Waaaaaaaaahhh my character has a poor / hard to land meteor but I want one!"
And so they give meteors to everyone.


If you want something in the game to be dumbed down to a stupid level because you're too weak to deal with it, just make sure to keep whining and Nintendo will see you through.
too true... maybe if enough people whine about master cheif... (jk, i would never want master cheif in brawl!)


Edit: Wo0t! 50th post!
 

Del Money

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But see man,this **** is different this time.Its all basically a guess game in the air now,kinda like Tekken in a cartoonish way.For example,If DK is on the recovery and Mario is awaiting,Mario doesnt have to use an "A" aerial attack him to force him out,but at the same time,if he chooses to do the jumpstool,DK can take advantage of Mario and attack him before he can get the jumpstool off,thus increasing DK chances of making it on back even greater.Also take not that if Mario did try to chase him down with an "A"move,he would be putting himself at risk as well.{Iam leaving out the melee techs that would null that to hell :laugh:}

Now,"IF"this technique somehow is non meteor cancelable,what I said above will make this game more technical than before.
true but its also a matter of priority as well and whether all characters jumpstool will have the same priority over recovery moves.
 

Smooth Criminal

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"Waaaaaaaaahhh I don't wanna press a lot of buttons."
And so they make the button pressing easier.

"Waaaaaaaaahhh I play Yoshi and need to whine that his godly double jump isn't enough."
And so they give him recovery potential with Up+B.

"Waaaaaaaaahhh my character has a poor / hard to land meteor but I want one!"
And so they give meteors to everyone.


If you want something in the game to be dumbed down to a stupid level because you're too weak to deal with it, just make sure to keep whining and Nintendo will see you through.
Yes. You're absolutely right.

Nevermind that Sakurai and Company altered the control scheme because Brawl was going to be handled through four different controls. Nevermind that Yoshi was a severely gimped character and needed something to compensate for those horrendous shortcomings. Nevermind that they gave everyone a potential meteor to level the playing field a bit more.

I mean, let's totally forget those facts.

Smooth Criminal
 

Dragonboy2k4

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In this situation, I wouldn't footstool OR go for a midair Smash. Just do a short-hop off from the edgehog, and plant a sex kick right in Donkey Kong's face.

Mario's Sex Kick > DK's Up-B

Your not pay attention bro,I said that I was setting aside Melee techs on that post.We dont know if A aerials are gonna be that strong anymore.
 

RDK

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Your not pay attention bro,I said that I was setting aside Melee techs on that post.We dont know if A aerials are gonna be that strong anymore.
Ohhh, kk...sorry, I somehow missed the Melee thing. :dizzy: Nvm then, you had a good point.

And Smooth Criminal, I completely agree about Yoshi and leveling the game w/ Meteor Smashes.
 

A-Laon

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Yes. You're absolutely right.

Nevermind that Sakurai and Company altered the control scheme because Brawl was going to be handled through four different controls. Nevermind that Yoshi was a severely gimped character and needed something to compensate for those horrendous shortcomings. Nevermind that they gave everyone a potential meteor to level the playing field a bit more.

I mean, let's totally forget those facts.

Smooth Criminal
"I'm going easier on the button pressing this time around. Feel free to mash a bit and ease yourself into it." That sounds like making the game easier for idiots who can't learn how to play -- I don't see anything in there regarding compatability for the different controllers.

Yoshi's recovery was no more gimped than Falco's, Doc's, Captain Falcon's, etc. In fact, his double jump invincibility gave him easy ways past many edgeguards. Scrubs just don't like having to think to not die. If they're going to improve Yoshi's recovery, then I want Falco to ****ing teleport.

You're right. We need to level the playing field. Forget about diversity and having to learn how to play different characters. let's give everybody meteor smashes, Marth range, shine combos, and IC chaingrabs, then the game will be a fun, balanced experience for all. I mean, it's not like giving everybody the same set of powerful features is detracting from the learning curve so newbs don't have to try to get good or anything.
 

Fawriel

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A-Laon, go to this thread: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=110631

You're thinking in black and white terms.
This is an ADDED technique, so dumbing down isn't really a concern, and it's probably extremely situational and useless most of the time, since it's not actually an ATTACK, but a movement mechanic, which probably gives it the worst possible priority and a small "hitbox".
Not to mention that you don't know who can use it. I doubt everyone will.
 

Del Money

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@Smooth Criminal
was the "yoshi's shortcomings" thing supposed to be a recovery-based pun, or am i th only one who saw that

Just do a short-hop off from the edgehog, and plant a sex kick right in Donkey Kong's face.

Mario's Sex Kick > DK's Up-B
not if mario is directly above DK right when i hit up+B. i beaten several mario's/dr. mario with DK many times
I'll accept the fact that Footstool jumps are in and they're not going out. It will add a new dimension to Smash Bros. for sure, but something about it just annoys me...
perhaps its the over-cartoonyness or the fact that getting spiked by it would be downright embarassing. at least it can be used to some strategic affect. and it somewhat levels the playing field
Your not pay attention bro,I said that I was setting aside Melee techs on that post.We dont know if A aerials are gonna be that strong anymore.
oh i thought you meant walltechs and walljumps
 

A-Laon

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An added feature can still dilute the game. Giving everybody an equal ability, in this case the potential for meteor smashing (without an attack, nonetheless) is a step towards removing diversity between characters. Why would this even be necessary? Do you ever hear huge debates break out within the competitive community regarding how unfair spike / meteor distribution is? Of course not. An update like this just pleases the petty whiners who aren't open-minded (and likewise probably not skilled) enough to get over a disadvantage of their character / playstyle and hence need to complain about aspects of the game as their scapegoat for not being developed metagamers.
 

Fawriel

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As I said, it's probably not going to be usable by every character. Imagine Jigglypuff spiking Bowser like this. Seems.. unlikely.
And it would be near impossible to do against an actually skilled foe. You have to fall on their head ( relative fall-speed is an issue ), then get the timing right... and your enemy would see it coming for sure.

The update had me worried, too, but after thinking about it, it's probably just situational, a nice playtoy for casual players and more of a mindgames thing for the pros.

By the way, in Melee, most characters already have meteors. Most just aren't very usable. Same thing here, probably, IF every character can do it.
 

PrettyGoodYear

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You don't fully know how it works yet, for all you know, the ability to footstool may vary from character to character, and you don't know how well you have to time it in order to land it, so you can't really say it will make the game easier.
 

Dragonboy2k4

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That technique page has my blood pumping tho.But the questions of all questions and Iam sorry guys but techinques do this to me but...Is Wavedashing in the FUKING GAME SAKURAI!????? :mad: :mad: :mad: There anit no way in holy hell that **** is just gone with the wind,its gotta be in this game in one shape or form.Rather its more in direct or not,we'll still be sliding like fuking Hockey players in the NHL. :laugh:

One really more important thing Id like to see return tho is L-canceling.That **** was featured in two games,so I see no dire reason to take it out.But if there anything I wanna see happened to it,and I think alot of vet players would agree with it,is that they create a clearer way to indicate that you preformed a L cancel correctly.They can show a party ballon,an announcer screamin "WHOOPIES!!"or a fast gold aura flash similar to the tech roll in Melee,whatever floats there boat.As long as I can tell I did the S.O.B,it can make timing and such so much easier.
 

BigRick

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One really more important thing Id like to see return tho is L-canceling.That **** was featured in two games,so I see no dire reason to take it out.But if there anything I wanna see happened to it,and I think alot of vet players would agree with it,is that they create a clearer way to indicate that you preformed a L cancel correctly.They can show a party ballon,an announcer scream "WHOOPIES!!"or a fast gold aura flash similar to the tech roll in Melee,whatever floats there boat.As long as I can tell I did the S.O.B,it can make timing and such so much easier.
I really didn't have any problem with SSB64's Z-canceling, because it was an exploit.

However, I didn't like L-canceling in melee, because the devs purposely added it to the game.

L-canceling adds no depth to gameplay, since l-canceling is ALWAYS (except rare exceptions) the best thing to do when you perform an aerial.

It's like asking a player to juggle 3 balls before he can make a move in chess
 

A-Laon

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Nobody yet knows anything of how this feature will work in its fullest, but Nintendo has always leaned towards catering to the lesser player and shutting up the whiners. They have no good reason to dilute an aspect of the game if nobody is complaining about it. The competitive players don't whine about button pressing or meteor distribution... so what group of people does that leave for Nintendo to be tyring to satisfy?

I'm simply inclined to believe that this feature will be a stupid and lethargic way of scoring meteors with a greater range of characters. Why? Easy and all-around effective techniques are what the casual players ask for, and that's who Nintendo consistently aims to please.
 

BigRick

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I'm simply inclined to believe that this feature will be a stupid and lethargic way of scoring meteors with a greater range of characters. Why? Easy and all-around effective techniques are what the casual players ask for, and that's who Nintendo consistently aims to please.
Hmm Footstooling doesn't really look like a very effective technique...

Since you have to jump on your opponent, then press the jump button at the right time, this move will be beaten by up-B's... except inoffensive up-B's like Pit
 

Smooth Criminal

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"I'm going easier on the button pressing this time around. Feel free to mash a bit and ease yourself into it." That sounds like making the game easier for idiots who can't learn how to play -- I don't see anything in there regarding compatability for the different controllers.
Maybe that little diagram on the "how-to" update for using Smash attacks is somewhat of an indicator. Y'know, there's a Wiimote, a CC, a GC, and Nunchuks to consider. Gasp. What a startling epiphany!

And that life-changing logic was brought to you in part by SIMPLE DEDUCTION. Because the schema is going to change, certain modifications to the core gameplay have got to be made. Rapid attacks performed by holding down a bloody button seem sensible; I wanna see somebody rapidly attack while flinging the nunchuk/Wii-mote combo around with the same, imperceptible ease as somebody that has a more handheld controller. The learning curve for those people is going to be steep, assuming that people even wanna go down that route.

A-Laon said:
Yoshi's recovery was no more gimped than Falco's, Doc's, Captain Falcon's, etc. In fact, his double jump invincibility gave him easy ways past many edgeguards. Scrubs just don't like having to think to not die. If they're going to improve Yoshi's recovery, then I want Falco to ****ing teleport.
Oh, yes. Yoshi's double-jump "invincibility" does give him a whole slew of options to get past edgeguards---assuming, of course, that the player in question has enough time to get it off. Ever play Sheik? Yeah. A couple of needles from he/she/it potato at the right moment and Yoshi drops like a rock before he even gets the second jump off. Same with just about any other projectile user versus Yoshi. That's one of the many reasons why he's so bloody gimped, aside from his inability to do anything out of his shield.

A-Laon said:
You're right. We need to level the playing field. Forget about diversity and having to learn how to play different characters. let's give everybody meteor smashes, Marth range, shine combos, and IC chaingrabs, then the game will be a fun, balanced experience for all. I mean, it's not like giving everybody the same set of powerful features is detracting from the learning curve so newbs don't have to try to get good or anything.
Yes. And I said in my previous post that I wanted to give all of the characters in the game something like what you had mentioned Gee, I thought it said something along the lines of:

Smooth Criminal said:
Nevermind that they gave everyone a potential meteor to level the playing field a bit more.
Learn to read, Laon. How does that translate into "OMG, I wanna dumb down every single god**** character in the game and reduce them to 'toons that are capable only of one or two unique actions?" No. I just thought that it was a unique addition. To me, it brings a semblance of balance to the game and adds on to whatever repertoire that Sakurai and Company are building up for the cast. It just gives a player more options to employ when intercepting or whatever. I'm sure that, for your sake (and everyone else's, believe it or not. Including mine!), all the characters are still going to be as different as night and day.

Plus, Fawriel brought up a good point. Do you honestly think that this is going to be a mechanic that sees predominant usage? Hardly. It's probably going to be situational to the point of uselessness when it comes to high-level play.

So freakin' relax.

Smooth Criminal

Edit: BigRick illustrated another good point.

BigRick said:
Hmm Footstooling doesn't really look like a very effective technique...

Since you have to jump on your opponent, then press the jump button at the right time, this move will be beaten by up-B's... except inoffensive up-B's like Pit.
 

darkshy

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I think there may be more then what we are being told right now. I'm guessing the new technique may be more for edge gaurding and edge hogging to counter Up-B attacks and such. I mean unless this meteor smash happens quickly I don't think I'll let someone jump on my head.
 

Dragonboy2k4

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It's like asking a player to juggle 3 balls before he can make a move in chess
Hence my reasoning for making the indication "easier" to see. :)

Nobody yet knows anything of how this feature will work in its fullest, but Nintendo has always leaned towards catering to the lesser player and shutting up the whiners. They have no good reason to dilute an aspect of the game if nobody is complaining about it. The competitive players don't whine about button pressing or meteor distribution... so what group of people does that leave for Nintendo to be tyring to satisfy?

I'm simply inclined to believe that this feature will be a stupid and lethargic way of scoring meteors with a greater range of characters. Why? Easy and all-around effective techniques are what the casual players ask for, and that's who Nintendo consistently aims to please.
Thats been the goal since the Nintendo DS.For more info http://wii.nintendo.com/iwataasks.jsp :laugh:

@Ethan:Sup buddy! :laugh: Thought we lost ya there last night. :laugh:
 

RDK

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Dang, Smooth, nice wall of text back there...jk, you made a good point about Yoshi's second jump.

And plus, we can't speculate too far on this, because:


A. We don't know whether or not footstooling will vary between characters, just like meteors or spikes.

and

B. We haven't actually played the game yet, so we can't all say "AWW **** SAKURAI, NICE JOB SCREWING UP THE GAME." I have that Sakurai won't screw up the franchise, and that he has both casual AND competitive players in mind.

Keep in mind that forming a game around the wants/needs of both the casual and competitive gaming communities is no small feat--Sakurai has a large burden to carry, and so far he hasn't disappointed. Too much.
 

Del Money

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im siding with Matt Damon a.k.a Smooth Criminal on this one. it only begins to level the playfield by adding a new universal technique but you have to be a total ignoramus to believe for a second that its not gonna differ with every cahracter. if jiggs is light enough to die just by breaking his/her/its shield, what make you think jiggs is gonna have a jumpstomp equal in power to say bowser's?

@ethan
rumor has it these suckas taught you about the birds and the bees and the "hidden techniques" of nature
 

GildedPunch

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Maybe you'll be able to pull off some chain grabbing-like bull**** with this thing.
You could FJ, and then air dodge straight back onto them.........
dunno, just a thought.
 

RDK

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@ethan
rumor has it these suckas taught you about the birds and the bees and the "hidden techniques" of nature
Ahhh, yes....lol, last night was crazy.

What say you, Ethan? Are you edu-ma-cated now?
 

Dragonboy2k4

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im siding with Matt Damon a.k.a Smooth Criminal on this one. it only begins to level the playfield by adding a new universal technique but you have to be a total ignoramus to believe for a second that its not gonna differ with every cahracter. if jiggs is light enough to die just by breaking his/her/its shield, what make you think jiggs is gonna have a jumpstomp equal in power to say bowser's?
Bingo,I forgot to quote them dudes when I wrote that skit about Mario and DK.Iam down with them too.

@Kirby ROFL!@!#!@ :laugh:
 

Chaotic Yoshi

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Is anyone a fan or the name of the move being called "Footstool jump"?

I think leapfrogging is a better term, what do you guys think?
 

Ash Hol

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I like the idea of the jump. it makes for more chaos i think, and it seems no more going through a person when you land......even better.
 
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