What to do against MK...

[CR4SH]

My bad, I didn't mean to sound like a hater. Polmex you're beastly. On the stage and off you were on point. Doing that much damage to a good mk is a pretty nonsense thing to do. Props.

However, sebrik played the offstage game terribly. I'm sorry but its true. There were at least 4 times where he didn't even leave the stage. Thats how you lose to luigi as MK.

 

[PolMex23]

To Elheber:....If there was anyway I could explain the feeling of getting hit by Mk but just coming back and getting in his face again...you explained it beautifully. Good **** man

To Cr4sh: I know xD, lol all jks. But it is true, he could have done better.

Only fact was that he was actually scared to lose, and previous friendlies ive killed him off stage with the most outrageous things.

He was playing patient and scared...i liked it =)

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Yeah dude I just watched your videos against Sebrick. You barely ever used usmash, didn't see much nair either. Other then that, sweet spacing. Nice to see a Wigi place high.

Also, upsmash beats Nado.

 

[PolMex23]

hard to time bro, really hard to time. Not as easy as D3s uTilt, i wish it was.

If you know there gettin from the edge to tornado, than a sliding uSmash FTW...

But, its hard. Mk is hard.

So is Dk, Mk, an MArth...hard.

RoB is a ***** also in my opinion. I need lunes to teach me....and good warios are such a pain in the ***....

 

[BigLøu]

u should have come found me better u played the rob, im good at the matchup

 

[PolMex23]

yea i shoulda watched you...you play a Rob, ill watch you. Next time, ima ask for you to be at my tv every time xD.

I play better...i gotta impress you xD

 

[CR4SH]

DK really? I don't find dk to be an especially tough matchup. Best I've played are ook and ripple, they beat me, but just because they're better than me lol. While it's true that spacing aerials can be pretty tough going, alot of our other tools are put to good use in the matchup, especially the jab and grab games. Not to mention the matchup is silly in our favor until they hit like 50-60. Nado baby.

 

[hippiedude92]

Crash the matchup is 4/6 DK favor. Come here to NY and play Bum. One of the best ranking player ever & best Dk player.

Dk players who use their SA frames smartly wreck our tools.

 

[PolMex23]

ty hippie...hqte strong with cr4sh xD

 

[CR4SH]

Hippie I know the matchup is in dk's favor. What I was saying is, until he gets to about 60%, it definetly isn't. But, most of the matchup is played past that point (obviously). In single hits, his range is a very difficult thing to deal with.

Also, you act like bum is in an entirely different class than ripple and ook, but he isn't. That is all.

 

[Ripple]

I'm really starting to hate when people say Bum is the best DK when talking about brawl without mentioning me or ook. Bum hasn't even gone to a circuit event and the only tournaments he wins are little smashfests that he hosts sometimes. people blow them out of proportion because sometimes snakee goes or someone else but the tournament is always like 16 people.

thank you cr4sh for sticking up for us

 

[BigLøu]

bum has also beaten a ton of good NJ people and NY and a lot of people that come to NY. Although i know ook is really good as well, and ur pretty good yourself. In any case, i wouldt worry what people think about, just keep playing.

 

[Atash]

Has anyone attempted to check Luigi's U-tilt against MK's tornado? I have seen it clank with Kirby's F-smash quite a few times, and that attack can, if I recall correctly, penetrate that green wall of tortured souls MK manages to summon during his attack (hey - there's no way that such an attack is made of fibrous green felt or grass; MK is definitely not an environmentalist).

Also, yeah, I'm with cr4sh on the Seibrik not-going-off-the-edge thing. I'm wondering how you would have reacted if he just popped down and pulled an Up-B into a ledge-grab? Or is a Luigi player pretty much screwed at that point...?

And could someone clarify what boss meant when he noted that fireballs can beat out MK's tornado? Does he mean the starting part of the Tornado? Or that there's a split-second clank? I just can't see MK reeling in midair shock from a distinct burning sensation on his face after conjuring his wall of undead souls...

@ PolMex

This thread has definitely changed my MK match-up viewpoint. G'job (oh, and your Luigi is friggin' amazing)!

 

[elheber]

Atash, the fireball will interrupt MK's Mach Tornado the same way almost any projectile interrupts Luigi's Green Missile.

Almost anything will damage MK out of his machnado... the problem is the Mach Tornado's extended hitbox. It'll generally touch Luigi before Luigi touches MK. Since during that special MK is most vulnerable from straight below or straight above, Luigi can knock him out with a uTilt from below... but if you try it from the side (which is most likely), it'll just get Luigi first before he can even finish his animation.

So I don't recommend trying to hit his machnado, Atash. The better idea is to learn to hold your sheild until the machnado is over. If he isn't on the ground, MK will freefall leaving him open to some fast attacks if you can chase him quickly enough.

And if you get caught up in it, SDI away from him as much as you can to avoid getting combo'd after it's done. Plus, sometimes you can escape it this way too.

 

[boss8]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=230684 <-----this is what you do vs MK

 

[BigLøu]

boss....the mk slayer

 

[boss8]

idk everyone tried to cp me MK o well....

up-b is too goodz especially OOS

 

[BigLøu]

do u powershield to upb, or can you just do it no matter what.

 

[boss8]

depends but i just do it whenever i want......at low %'s not like i can get ppunished to the point where i die...

 

[BigLøu]

Yea i suppose your right. No point in not trying at low percentages then,

Now just gotta apply this to my gameplay =0

 

[boss8]

at low %'s i can careless if im going for an up-b on mk cause im at like 20 or 30% he's at like 45 50 so i guess im ok lol...

 

[Magus420]

Has anyone attempted to check Luigi's U-tilt against MK's tornado? I have seen it clank with Kirby's F-smash quite a few times, and that attack can, if I recall correctly, penetrate that green wall of tortured souls MK manages to summon during his attack

U-tilt doesn't do enough damage to outprioritize nado's hits and instead clanks with them (I think it does anyway). I believe your attack's hitbox needs to do more than 10% or possibly 11% to outprioritize nado's hits and u-tilt does 9%. That's obviously not the only requirement though.

Clanking (the hits are within about 9% of each other) with the hits of his nado doesn't phase MK himself, so when you do that your attack is clanked/stops while he keeps on going and the other hits of the nado just hit you afterwards anyway since your attack is no longer out.

You beat out the nado with an attack that has a difference of more than like 9% of damage (nado's hits do 1% I believe) so your attack outprioritizes the nado's hits (your attack stays out/continues while the nado hits get eaten by your hitbox), and then your attack is there when MK himself is in range of being hit by your attack.

MK doesn't incur hitlag when nado's hits interact with yours, so you usually hit him when he coasts into you while you're still in hitlag from hitting his nado.

Also, since you're generally hitting his nado before actually hitting him, the parts of your body that go into nado's range before your attack can reach MK himself need to be fully covered and protected by your attack's hitbox(es). If not then the other hits of the nado can simply hit that open area on you and will end your attack that way and you get caught in it. This is why you can't just jump into him from the side with a strong n-air or something, since even though your legs/body and such are beating out any of nado's hitboxes that come into contact with it your head or whatever ends up getting hit where there isn't a hitbox protecting it.

 

[elheber]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=230684 <-----this is what you do vs MK

what is this i don't even!

 

[hippiedude92]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=230684 <-----this is what you do vs MK

luigi is legit cp for mk. boss just proved it. my hero

 

[PolMex23]

Hurraww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Atash]

@ the general populace answering my questions
Alright - the U-tilt one makes sense (thanks for the rough percentages, Magus). However, no one's explained to me yet how the fireball could be worth anything beyond hitting MK out of the tornado during the initial frames of the attack (while he's bringing out that greenish wall).

@ Magus specifically
Doesn't our B-air do 10% damage (isn't there also a 'fresh' bonus of x1.2)? Why not attempt to SHFF->B-air? Or was that what you meant by 9% being 'not the only requirement'?

EDIT:
@ boss
... I'm speechless...

 

[CR4SH]

Boss proved one thing for sure, the best possible CP for mk is skill.

If you're enough better than they are, you'll beat them.

 

[PolMex23]

nothing got recorded...fack

 

[wok]

hi guys i noticed how everyone says oos up b is soo useful
how about we make a list of all the opponents attack we can punish with oos up b
for instance ive been able to oos upb a poorly spaced metaknight's nair, dash attk
this way everyone will know when it is possible
only making our luigi's more lethal =]

 

[PolMex23]

To Wok...

You cant,they have to di into you while attacking for it to work. If not you fail.

An sometimes, even when they are retreating with the attack, upB OOS still hits...Hitbox movement an whatnot...

This is still a incredible upHill battle. I lost to Petey first round, an only the second match at Final was close(i counter picked him to final...im crazy xD)

First match I couldnt kill his second stock untill i threw him. Match still is hard.

Now, I need help against campy snakes...

 

[zhao_guang]

To Wok...

You cant,they have to di into you while attacking for it to work. If not you fail.

An sometimes, even when they are retreating with the attack, upB OOS still hits...Hitbox movement an whatnot...

This is still a incredible upHill battle. I lost to Petey first round, an only the second match at Final was close(i counter picked him to final...im crazy xD)

First match I couldnt kill his second stock untill i threw him. Match still is hard.

Now, I need help against campy snakes...

Lou told me baiting the mortar with a n-air to start the combos works wonders, and predicting the airdodges after they recover high to UpB KOs.

 

[BigLøu]

Polmex against campy snakes bait their shield until it gets small enough to nair over the top. Snakes shield a lot so their shield goes down quick.

 

[PolMex23]

Lou you are a genious .... !!!!!!!!!!!

Wow...I cant believe that never crossed my mind.

Wow....YES!!!! o.0!!!! xD =) Ty

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

Lou you are a genious .... !!!!!!!!!!!

Wow...I cant believe that never crossed my mind.

Wow....YES!!!! o.0!!!! xD =) Ty

Some tactical mastermind you are...

 

[hippiedude92]

Polmex against campy snakes bait their shield until it gets small enough to nair over the top. Snakes shield a lot so their shield goes down quick.

Never thought of that lol. Good thinking. What about if they have are shielding with a nade in hand? Sometimes they pull it so fast and shield ugh >.>

 

[BigLøu]

Never thought of that lol. Good thinking. What about if they have are shielding with a nade in hand? Sometimes they pull it so fast and shield ugh >.>

Then watch as their nade explodes their shield further crippling it. I generally dont try and attack snakes till their shield is low enough. Luigi can then break through and start comboing. We also take away snakes abiltiy to live long with the crazy strong fsmash/ shorukens.

 

[hippiedude92]

so if they have a nade in front of them, then a nade in hand while with their shield up, just wait? Usually I just run in and grab and then quickly hold up the shield to block the second nade just in case.

Polmex.. you need to include Dairs are cruical to fighting Mk.. Mks shields are so small, its asking for shield pokes everywhere... not to mention not get 0 deathed twice on Brinstar.. *true story btw..*

 

[elheber]

Gawd I hate nade dropping Snakes. I'm way too aggressive and always make them blow up in my face. Baiting is one of those things that make me say, "why didn't I think of that sooner?!?!"

 

[Atash]

Gawd I hate nade dropping Snakes. I'm way too aggressive and always make them blow up in my face. Baiting is one of those things that make me say, "why didn't I think of that sooner?!?!"

Speaking of Snakes... we never did get around to grabbing a summary of the Snake match-up from, like, forever ago, did we... -.-'

 

[BigLøu]

so if they have a nade in front of them, then a nade in hand while with their shield up, just wait? Usually I just run in and grab and then quickly hold up the shield to block the second nade just in case.

Polmex.. you need to include Dairs are cruical to fighting Mk.. Mks shields are so small, its asking for shield pokes everywhere... not to mention not get 0 deathed twice on Brinstar.. *true story btw..*

Yea just wait, their shield will cripple and its soo easy to combo snakes that have no dhields