What makes fox so good?

[Life After Death]

therers like 10 other ganons in fl that pla ythe same their just underground. chaddd is madd goood vs falco.

 

[RaynEX]

Again, this is attributed more to their proximity to good Falcos than to Ganon in general. Linguini is the only tournament Ganon I've seen do well in the match-up. I want to see these 10 other Ganons in action. Until then, Falco > Ganon.

 

[KirbyKaze]

falco is def not automatic.look how many good fox players compared to falco like 5 times the amount compared to falco

This is a massive exaggeration. Maybe in 2007 this was true, but the number now is far closer than you think.

Perhaps we have a different opinion of "good Fox". I consider "good", being "tournament threat", which would count as "potential to place top 16". I can't count many Foxes that I'd expect to do that. Fewer Falcos, I suppose, but it's fairly close.

falco has to think way more because if he gets hit he dies..and coming with falco is way harder than to combo with fox..ask any top falco player and they will agree with me..chops lives with me now and he will def tell u what im saying is true..ask shiz..ask mango..ask rice..dr pp..ask zhu

So wait, Fox DOESN'T die if he gets hit?

Falco combos Fox unconditionally 0 - 60 from Shines or aerials. He can CC Shine anything Fox does that isn't spaced or low aerial --> Shine and get 0 - 60.

Sheik's tech chase works BETTER on Fox because she can jab reset him to higher percent without him being able to ASDI up and land on his feet. Falco can actually escape jab resets at 42 and then buffer roll or even just shine but no Falcos do this because they either don't know or because...? I don't know how I'd continue that.

Marth's chain grab on Fox is pretty much identical to Falco and Falco's longer tech roll actually keeps some tech chase strategies from working on him, like they do on Fox. This is a somewhat small point, though, so I think it's fair to say that Marth can death tech chase, chain grab, gimp, and/or combo them pretty much the same. Fox's longer length of Firefox rarely makes a difference against a proficient Marth.

Both space animals are relatively similar to tech chase, combo, and edgeguard. Fox dies from a single hit marginally less than Falco does, but Fox does not have some mysterious survivability that Falco needs. They both have crappy recoveries, get comboed, and die really fast.

fox ***** the cast and goes even with shiek,icy's,puff,falco, and peach

Peach is a definite "Hell, no". Same for Puff. I don't think anyone in the world would agree that Puff vs Fox is even.

and if people disagree with me about peach ..y do most of the fox mains suk against peach

Because most of them don't camp the balls off her like you're supposed to, or they do it badly.

Jman DESTROYS Peaches.

Lucky hardly sucks against Peach, he was facing Armada. He probably could have won if he didn't counterpick a level without a top platform where he could have ultimate safety forever, like how he won game 1. He beat Xelic, anyway, and Xelic is pretty legit.

Zhu also eviscerates Peaches that aren't Cort at RoM.

There are plenty of Foxes who are good at the Peach matchup. There are also many bad Foxes, in fact there is a plethora of bad Foxes, but the good Foxes tend to be good at the Peach matchup. So, do we base the matchup off the bad players? Or the good ones?

If you're basing a matchup off how medium-low players do in it, I think we have reached the focus of our misunderstanding.

and he goes even against marth on fd..ever watch pc vs m2k at oc3 or jman vs m2k..fox ***** falco has to struggle way more and do way more work..people need to learn how to power shiled more and wave dash out of shield to another shield it ***** falco..watch colbol play any falco

Okay, so for one tournament M2K lost on FD in that matchup. You're aware that he won that matchup on FD pretty much every other time they played it, right?

Specifically using a player to justify the argument isn't very good in general, IMO, but to use a statistic that barely supports your argument is entirely awful. M2K consistently ***** Foxes on FD, he did it at RoM, he did it at pretty much every old tournament, he did it at TGMT, I don't recall him losing a game to Jman at HERB (though I expect controller johns or some ilk), etc.

PC vs M2K at OC3 was amazing, but it was definitely an awkward case in the result because almost every other time they've done that matchup, M2K has won on FD. Hell, PC only won ONCE on FD. M2K won the other games on FD at OC3, when he allegedly wasn't playing as well as PC (PC won the tournament, after all).

 

[JPOBS]

i dunno where dr.pp is from or if he plays ganons regularly, but all linguini seemed to do was full hop oos with either upair or fair the whole match, and dr.pp was unfortunate enough to run into them.

and besides we all kno ganon kills with like 3 hits -_-

 

[L__]

falco can escape after taking like 20-30 damage and then reset the situation.

You make it sound so easy

with falco, it doesnt matter what stage your on, if falco hits you with a dair, shine, or nair that you didnt cc, you are gonna get a garunteed 60% and maybe even death.

lol.

on FD though, fox is deadly to falco, his one time combos turn into extended chaingrabs and upsmash and junk.

LOL.

Uhm,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMEcYMyA8nI

It's preeeeeeettttttttttyyyyyyy tough.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

My $0.02

 

[Strong Badam]

*links to random videos where people overcome match-up disadvantages through player skill* SEE GUYS PICHU IS A FALCO COUNTER

 

[S l o X]

Maining Fox really shouldn't be too hard. I mean...if you practice enough you'll get the idea. Basically just combo **** with both power and speed. Gimps are hella easy to pull off if you are doing it right. He's top tier because all around he's the perfect character. [oh and there are different types of Fox's, super campy Fox's like M2Ks and offensive Fox's like...every other Fox main s_s]

 

[KirbyKaze]

Why does that never work when I do it with Kirby

 

[Teczer0]

God Fox is so dumb.

Also adding to Raynex, I think a lot of falco players NEVER playing against a ganon before helps attribute to getting *****.

A lot of players lost to Kage hard before the US learned the match up. Kage still wins of course but less now because we are starting to gain more experience vs ganon imo.

 

[JPOBS]

You make it sound so easy


LOL.

Uhm,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMEcYMyA8nI

It's preeeeeeettttttttttyyyyyyy tough.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

My $0.02

i make it "sound" easy but its pretty true. After the intial fox stuff (upthrow cg, upsmash etc) on any stage not FD, DI to platforms and then it becomes a guessing/techchase game which is escapable.

on FD, the combos are just so much more painful lol

i ban that ish vs fox.
like i say, platforms dont hinder falco combos, but they make fox's job just a little tougher.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I like how everyone devalues matchup experience.

Hi Haley <3

 

[Teczer0]

i make it "sound" easy but its pretty true. After the intial fox stuff (upthrow cg, upsmash etc) on any stage not FD, DI to platforms and then it becomes a guessing/techchase game which is escapable.

on FD, the combos are just so much more painful lol

i ban that ish vs fox.
like i say, platforms dont hinder falco combos, but they make fox's job just a little tougher.

I disagree with fox's job being harder with platforms....

Just tech chase with bairs. It solves all your problems.

I like how everyone devalues matchup experience.

Hi Haley <3

I like how you make sense.

Hi Dave <33

 

[KirbyKaze]

I disagree with fox's job being harder with platforms....

Just tech chase with bairs. It solves all your problems.

Why Bair when one can Uair?

You have to yell "CC this, nyukka" while you do it though.

Mostly joking, but I like to Uair. Makes me feel manly.

I like how you make sense.

Hi Dave <33

Only on the surface. I am ruled by hedonistic urges.

*glomps*

 

[L__]

i make it "sound" easy but its pretty true. After the intial fox stuff (upthrow cg, upsmash etc) on any stage not FD, DI to platforms and then it becomes a guessing/techchase game which is escapable.

on FD, the combos are just so much more painful lol

i ban that ish vs fox.
like i say, platforms dont hinder falco combos, but they make fox's job just a little tougher.

I was just giving my thoughts on the matchup and past experience lol.

I probably should have stated that.

I'm not exactly professional status, so next time I just won't say anything concerning my opinion.

 

[Teczer0]

Why Bair when one can Uair?

You have to yell "CC this, nyukka" while you do it though.

Mostly joking, but I like to Uair. Makes me feel manly.


Only on the surface. I am ruled by hedonistic urges.

*glomps*

Ok, I agree sorta with this anyway.

Low percent upthrow tech chase upair charged upsmash is soooooooooooo cool.

I love KDJ combos

 

[KirbyKaze]

L, don't worry about spamming opinion, it's the internet.

Haley and I are one. I always grab out of low percent Uairs and try to cg them to the top platform and do funny stuff. Maybe I should do gay stuff instead of funny stuff...

But when is cging not the gayest thing?!

Haley I'm confused, help me.

 

[JPOBS]

I was just giving my thoughts on the matchup and past experience lol.

I probably should have stated that.

I'm not exactly professional status, so next time I just won't say anything concerning my opinion.

nah dude dont feel bad about it.

im just throwing around my own opinions from matchup experience too. We cant all be m2k thats why we have differing opinions and why we still argue about the most basic ish after 8 years. I dont care if you opinion is different, i nthe end it can only help us all further our knowledge or get new ideas from each other.

 

[soap's sister]

silly *****es

I make fox so good

~soap posting, (my silly ***** sister is logged in for some reason)

 

[SwiftBass]

jpobs- I agree with your post on the previous page. I dunno about these newer ones yet.

Chops- Renth, Chadd, Rock, linguini are beast vs spacies.........but raynex makes an excellent point. Your post suggests too much bias. Those players are good against spacies.


Pbnj- While I do not consider Fox automatic I do not consider falco automatic either. falco has a greater window of opportunity and more room for error than fox does(COMBO WISE). His dair stuns like hell and his shine gives you alot of time. I think that falco is more "automatic" than fox in a direct comparison........on another hand, shiek in direct comparison to falco is more "automatic".

oh and about peaches and fox mains.........
LUCKY, JMAN, RAYNEX, EGGM, ZHU(as fox)

----------------------------------------------------------------



fox/marth and falco/marth is a really tough call imo. REALLY tough.

fox has the mobility and the up kill ability which makes me favor fox personally, but falco has the control of the field. The lazers themselves have amazing potential. Im usually sold on the fact that fox has a better recovery but I really think that most of the time its matchup preference. Some players find themselves off stage more so they like fox some are grounded and can camp the middle better and may like falco I dunno, but I'm chalking up the two matchups to preference because ive seen great things and horrible things happen both ways. I personally like fox better.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe that falco's learning curve is greater in reference to execution, tech skill, reaction time(DI in particular to help make up for his recovery) HOWEVER........Fox's versatility is a challenge in itself. Its easier to use him effectively in terms of execution, tech skill and reaction time, but in reference to creativity and application fox i believe is THE HARDEST character to play with at high levels but more on the subject, harder than falco to play at high levels due to the latter mentioned.

and specifically about the two chars recovery....for the most part falco and foxes recovery vs marth is the same. I feel like fox just has more opportunities to implement his recovery tactics due to his considerably longer length of upB and sideB. The only thing I feel that TRULY changes the mentality of recovery is the fact that fox has the fire with upB.

Peach is a definite "Hell, no". Same for Puff. I don't think anyone in the world would agree that Puff vs Fox is even.



Jman DESTROYS Peaches.

Lucky hardly sucks against Peach, he was facing Armada. He probably could have won if he didn't counterpick a level without a top platform where he could have ultimate safety forever, like how he won game 1. He beat Xelic, anyway, and Xelic is pretty legit.

Zhu also eviscerates Peaches that aren't Cort at RoM.

There are plenty of Foxes who are good at the Peach matchup. There are also many bad Foxes, in fact there is a plethora of bad Foxes, but the good Foxes tend to be good at the Peach matchup. So, do we base the matchup off the bad players? Or the good ones?

I could not have said it better. I will say that fox/peach is seemingly becoming harder for fox but still in his favor.



Im in agreement with raynex and kaze for the most part

 

[Teczer0]

L, don't worry about spamming opinion, it's the internet.

Haley and I are one. I always grab out of low percent Uairs and try to cg them to the top platform and do funny stuff. Maybe I should do gay stuff instead of funny stuff...

But when is cging not the gayest thing?!

Haley I'm confused, help me.

=)

CGing is pretty gay.

I think I just love KDJ's style so much.

However if you want to talk strategically (God I'm such a buzzkill) I guess if they tech chase away from the top platform its a great idea to instead CG. Since you can just upsmash if they DI away and regrab if they DI toward the top platform.

I think charge upsmash is better if they tech roll toward the top platform because in my experience it makes tech chasing players on the top platform easier.

Thats just me.

I think Swiftbass and Raynex pretty much ***** this entire thread.

 

[L__]

L, don't worry about spamming opinion, it's the internet.

nah dude dont feel bad about it.

Thanks for not being jerks about it.

Cactuar has an amazing Fox.

 

[Ghostly]

Thank you all for replying. Does anyone know any pros who use fox that I can learn from?

 

[chize]

pc
m2k
kdj
cactus
just to name a few, i think i learned the most from those foxes though

edit- you can learn a lot from raynex

 

[TresChikon]

Cunning is awesome, cunning's guide is nearly complete, read it then

 

[PB&J]

falco cant cc fox's dair ..unless ur a noob and dont l cancel

fox falco is dead even..fox can kill falco way quicker and falco has an garunteed almost 0-death

lucky just lost to armada last timed i checked

that match up is even and 5 fox's dont count compared to the majority

jman and colbol are the best fox's ive seen against peach anyway..and people still didnt master how to **** her yet

people neeed to admit that people suk against falco as a whole and if im wrong name 5 people who are really good against falco and m2k isnt one of them..he will say it himself

last time i checked besides rock chaddd,liguini,renth..there is kage and tipman

the other ganons are average

how does falco **** ganon again

what ever..it doesnt matter what i say i know nothing it seems like to some people

 

[SwiftBass]

lucky just lost to armada last timed i checked

that match up is even and 5 fox's dont count compared to the majority

I mean results aside lucky put up one hell of a fight against armada and he beat xelic. Them peaches are legit to say he can't play the matchup is kinda messed up....That'd be like someone saying shiz is beast vs marth, then me saying he lost to m2k so hes not......

im confused a bit. If peach/fox is even then how will ppl master ****** her? If thats the case then how should I go about learning to **** falco so I can beat chopz/shiz. Im just not understanding ur logic in some spots its not like I disapprove of ur input. You are suggesting that matchups are even and rapable at the same time. I understand that new developments can shift matchups but "even" and "getting *****" are extremes can you elaborate on what you mean?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the case of mid-high level fox mains that are like active in tourney I think that 6(colbol added) being mildly diverse in region can help speak for the mid-high level majority. There are not that many fox mains of that type around and in that respect I think 6 is plenty and relavant to the other mid-high level foxes. I think esepcially when it comes to fox(since there are alot of ppl who main him) that low level/scrub level fox are irrelevant in the inclusion of the majority in terms of matchup optimization and tourney placement. They would only skew overall judgement.

in addition...

In the case of ganon I think everyone can agree that there are considerably less low level/scrub level ganons than there are low level/scrub level fox. That being said I think that the ganons listed speak louder for the majority. However thats not to say that the foxes stated about dun speak for their majority at all.

I'd like to see what, noob_king, kage, bushman, whatisfear say about the falco matchup out of curiosity

---------------------------------------------


In short:

-Im kinda being more convinced of your argument about ganon
-I still disagree with your logic when it comes to fox/peach
-no comment on fox/falco still its too confusing for me =P

 

[Ghostly]

* Extremely mobile
* Devastating shine combos
*Excellent grab game
*Has superb on/offstage edge guarding
*His size actually makes him more annoying to hit

Oh and Fox's taunt is clearly the best in the game. ^^

Captain Falcon's taunt is clearly the best: Show me your moobs!!! XD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3Tmi8urjsg wow at 1:06 . RaynEX can really combo. Good ****.

 

[PB&J]

i see what u mean..when i get upset i say **** alot and throw out words but fox and falco is dead even to me and fox peach

and fox has the advantge on marth on every stage even fd..just dont get grabbed


anyway..come to ga for we can team @ to5 next weekend..lol

 

[RaynEX]

fox falco is dead even..fox can kill falco way quicker and falco has an garunteed almost 0-death

lucky just lost to armada last timed i checked

that match up is even and 5 fox's dont count compared to the majority

jman and colbol are the best fox's ive seen against peach anyway..and people still didnt master how to **** her yet

people neeed to admit that people suk against falco as a whole and if im wrong name 5 people who are really good against falco and m2k isnt one of them..he will say it himself

last time i checked besides rock chaddd,liguini,renth..there is kage and tipman

the other ganons are average

how does falco **** ganon again

what ever..it doesnt matter what i say i know nothing it seems like to some people

This is all imo.

-Fox and Falco can both **** each other. Fox being able to kill "quicker" doesn't mean anything. Speed aside, they both have at least 50% combos off of a single move (Fox's grab, Falco's shine/dair). It doesn't matter how fast or slow their combos are if they both do the same thing in the end.

There are only really two major points that tip the balance in this match-up. The first is Falco's laser. The mobility that Fox has is now stripped from him. He is coerced into playing this silly shield game, wherein if he jumps from above he gets punished by DD->move, laser->move, or Shield->shine oos - then proceeds to lose his entire stock. Fox is forced to approach in the most predictable ways possible. Falco can sit on those lasers until he finds an opening and go crazy. Falco also has a lot more priority on his aerials than Fox does, and usually beats him air to air. Fox does pretty good in this match-up because once he does knock Falco down, he has the potential for high damage output. Falco isn't at risk if he knows how to shoot and keep Fox away. Falco shuts down far too many of Fox's offensive options for this to be in his favour. Also, because Fox's defensive game is useless vs. Falco, it leaves Fox with very few options. He isn't helpless because not all the lasers will hit him, and he does sometimes have the space he needs to move around. Close range, Falco is rewarded more for a hit than Fox is. Fox CC doesn't help much vs. Falco, while Falco's CC vs. Fox gives him stocks.

I could keep going and going with this, but I need to cut it off somewhere. Falco > Fox. (match-up wise not character wise)

-I've never met anyone who thinks Ganon does well vs. Falco. I think you're just too hung up on Linguini. KDJ beats Falcos with his Pichu, but I'm pretty sure we all think Falco still beats Pichu..

right...?

You need to learn to separate "good character" from"good player".


-No one is blatantly stating you don't know what you're talking about. But when you make posts saying things like Fox goes even with ICs/Peach/Jiggs, or that Ganon does well vs. Falco.... *shrug*

edit: The Fox > Marth ON FD comment is another example of flawed logic. Marth is going to definitely get a grab at least once a match. You can't just take out a major part of his game because you think some magical Fox player can avoid every single grab, then say the match-up is in Fox's favour. When he DOES get a grab, even if it is just 1 or 2...its a stock or edge-guard > stock on FD.

 

[SwiftBass]

i see what u mean..when i get upset i say **** alot and throw out words but fox and falco is dead even to me and fox peach

and fox has the advantge on marth on every stage even fd..just dont get grabbed


anyway..come to ga for we can team @ to5 next weekend..lol

NY had plans to go but difficulty ensued. I doubt we get there. plus theres some new england tourney i think the same weekend

=(


we'll do it again at somepoint it was fun playing with another spacie

 

[PB&J]

so chaddd rock crock/tipman dont count besides them there is kage and we all know he suks vs falco dont go off one ganon

and besides those i named and renth

who is there..who is even above average..


im still sticking with my staement that falco/fox match up is even

only u and m2k diasgree because u guys arent good in the match up..learn it ..its not as hard as it seems

 

[Strong Badam]

i prefer fox vs. falco to fox dittos.

 

[JPOBS]

to PB&J

yea i agree with raynex you cant just take a huge part of marths game out and be like "dont get grabbed and its in fox's favour" because link me to a match between two pros players where the marth DIDNT get grabs? at all?

fox when played to frame perfection perfection probably wont get grabbed, but the fact remains, foxs get grabbed and until fox's manage to stop getting grabbed, theres no way you can throw out statements like "fox has the advantage, just dotn get grabbed" because there are way to many variables for that.

also, could you elaborate on why Fox vs Peach is even iyo?

 

[soap]

This is all imo.

-Fox and Falco can both **** each other. Fox being able to kill "quicker" doesn't mean anything. Speed aside, they both have at least 50% combos off of a single move (Fox's grab, Falco's shine/dair). It doesn't matter how fast or slow their combos are if they both do the same thing in the end.

There are only really two major points that tip the balance in this match-up. The first is Falco's laser. The mobility that Fox has is now stripped from him. He is coerced into playing this silly shield game, wherein if he jumps from above he gets punished by DD->move, laser->move, or Shield->shine oos - then proceeds to lose his entire stock. Fox is forced to approach in the most predictable ways possible. Falco can sit on those lasers until he finds an opening and go crazy. Falco also has a lot more priority on his aerials than Fox does, and usually beats him air to air. Fox does pretty good in this match-up because once he does knock Falco down, he has the potential for high damage output. Falco isn't at risk if he knows how to shoot and keep Fox away. Falco shuts down far too many of Fox's offensive options for this to be in his favour. Also, because Fox's defensive game is useless vs. Falco, it leaves Fox with very few options. He isn't helpless because not all the lasers will hit him, and he does sometimes have the space he needs to move around. Close range, Falco is rewarded more for a hit than Fox is. Fox CC doesn't help much vs. Falco, while Falco's CC vs. Fox gives him stocks.

.

u make good points. fox does lose alot of his normal mobility he has against the rest of the cast.

but he is still alot more fluid and mobile than most other characters in this matchup.

try jumping and weaving around lasers with marths floaty ***, its ********.

especially if fox has platforms and its not that big a problem anymore. waveland, drop through get your own chip laser snipes in. find your opening and dair shine, that gets rid of the cc problem.

most other characters have it far worse getting around his laser game and low percent crouch cancels.

ill say it's even cuz it just seems like they **** each others openings so hard but i definitely don't think its advantage falco. He has to be super patient and find those openings too, i kinda feel like i am doing the same thing when i play on both sides of this matchup. that is tediously looking for an opening amidst all the lasers

 

[Razor]

#1. fox is a better char than falco, but i honestly think falco has a slight advantage in the specific matchup. it's almost entirely about the stage choices or preferences. when it comes to players, usually the better player wins

#2. ganon can hang with falco, pbj is right. falco can't really kill ganon. it's weird.
this is IMO---->i also think that ganon does better against falco than captain does. ganon's platform game is far superior to captains.

#3. fox beats ic's, peach, and puff. i disagree strongly with pbj. if the fox is an outright better player, he will beat the ic's, peach, and the puff.

#4. opposed to falco, i also think fox's metagame is more translatable and better to learn for the avg tournament skill level player. his grab game and edge game are good to learn. falco's auto combos are misleading and he can only do a couple things off-stage. falco should be 2 or 3 on the tier list, but fox is still a better character

 

[KirbyKaze]

falco cant cc fox's dair ..unless ur a noob and dont l cancel

it can be sdied

in addition to sdi, you can just stick your foot in fox's general direction and expect your move to win

even if marth doesn't get abstract grabs, he can still combo, knock over, and tech chase fox into grabs. the fact that marth's grab actually beats fox's nair with decent (not even good, but decent) spacing makes for a very difficult game on fox's part. you can shoot him and force marth to approach, because approaching marth with fox is hard as hell because of marth's dd grab / moves, but marth's speed goes virtually toe-to-toe with fox on the ground, and fox has to be careful as hell to not get cornered and trapped in a crappy position.

marth has plenty of stuff vs fox, you can't dumb it down like "don't get grabbed" and then not elaborate and expect us to understand your opinion. both charaters are gay as **** to the other.

 

[PB&J]

peach vs fox-most fox players and peach players are scared 2 fight this match up- the fox has 2 play really on his a game..i dont want to hear all u have 2 do is camp because colbol is very agro and ***** peach..u just have 2 be playing well and u will do good,but the peach player and crouch cancel d smash jabs bad nairs and combo to death. her edge guarding on fox is better in my opinion vs fox on peach..yes fox can back air shine spike but the float can be misleading and more air mobility than fox's up b and side b

yes fox can drill shine infinite peach,waveshine infinte,waveshine up smash,waveshine up throw up air..but peach has auto combos on fox 2 she even has a chaingrab on fd..in my opion its better than marths because when she finishes with the nair he cant even up b he just dies nad most marth players mess it up anyway and just do reset grab combo

her dash attack after 13-17% is like a launcher and can rack up a quick 60-70 percent of what i seen peach players do

it just seems her rewards are much easier and much harder to mess up vs fox's and we all no must people now how to combo fox

i just find it funny where i know if we took a survey and to ask the all the fox players if they were good against peach most of them would say now but thats besides the point..just throwing it out there and dont name 6 or seven fox where there are like alot more than that

icy's vs fox please tell me y u think fox ***** icy's..its shine vs dont get hit..not grab likie most people would say

icy's have like 3 0-to death combos on fox that dont have to do with grab..then add the grab and its good by fox.some of the players are figuring out how to get out of the downthrow chain grab but what about the reverse dar chain grab or some other grab combos not including wobbling that are just as effective that kil fox within 7 seconds

yup yup..fox can spam shine on icys and play keep away and spam up tilt but icy's have blizzard desyncs and ice block s to make fox where we want him to be

many icy ploayers already proved throughout the years that icy's go even without wobbling..if u go back to o7

most tournaments where chu won..wobbling wasnt even aloud in tourny and he still ***** or hozart and uberice in fl ****** shiz twice in one tourny with out it..domo in japan..me beating chillin at vls 2-0 and other fox's having them switch chracters like cactuar dont get me that if the fox is better crap



u guys should ask m2k ,azen,and ken what they think of the fox marth match up..its funny what they say because i get most of my fox marth match up knowledge from them..so funny this community is so funny
icy's fox is even on any stage in the game even cornieria because of ice blocks get your facts straight

 

[Ghostly]

I've only been playing melee for no more than a month and I don't get it... Why does it matter what characters are playing? I don't get why the better player doesn't always win. I can understand them messing up or their opponent comboing/comboeing them. To me, Falco (better player) vs Ganon, Falco wins.

 

[Teczer0]

I've only been playing melee for no more than a month and I don't get it... Why does it matter what characters are playing? I don't get why the better player doesn't always win. I can understand them messing up or their opponent comboing/comboeing them. To me, Falco (better player) vs Ganon, Falco wins.

I'm confused what you mean.

The better players usually do win.

If you don't know how to fight a character though it makes you just fight dumb sometimes or it makes you unaware of what to avoid.

So in example of falco vs ganon.

Take falco vs Ganon both play very well but the falco doesn't fight ganon very well and doesn't know exactly how to go about fighting ganons.

Falco may not know how devastating ganon could be in mid-air and fight him in air because he believes he is the superior character.

Well... ganon's aerials deal insane damage and it only takes like 3 hits from ganon to force falco off stage.

tl;dr experience matters A LOT.

 

[Iron Man]

I've only been playing melee for no more than a month and I don't get it... Why does it matter what characters are playing? I don't get why the better player doesn't always win. I can understand them messing up or their opponent comboing/comboeing them. To me, Falco (better player) vs Ganon, Falco wins.

Usually, if you take 2 different characters and compare how they'd be used at their 100% ability, some will counter others by means of say, range, speed, air and ground combos and edgeguiarding tactics and whatnot. It wouldn't be terriby obvious, so that one character can never actually die or something like that, but they'd have a small advantage.