What makes fox so good?

[Ghostly]

As said above, what is it about him that makes him top teir? Even though my username is Jigglypuffff, I main Falco and I think his recovery sucks so I want to main fox.

 

[Grunt]

his speed and damage output.
EDIT: and his nair

 

[derfleurer]

His speed, short hop, lag cancel, shine/wavedash, and ability to combo with practically every move.

(everything, basically)

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

nair has good priority, but it gets beat out by lots of other moves. its not like falco where all his moves have the best priority, the only "trump card" fox has is bair. also you dont have lasers. fox is a lot harder to play than falco.

i'd say the best strategy with fox would be to laser camp and then punish their approach. dash dance away then hit them or shield and punish.

 

[RaynEX]

Fox:

-Fox has higher mobility

-Fox has more Straight-forward combos. Uthrow leads to whatever you want.

-Fox has no particularly bad match-ups. They are all managable.

-Fox can play well on every level in the game, and isn't hindered much by strange counterpicks.

-Fox has a very long recovery. It is, however, extremely linear and predictable.

-Fox has one of the best defensive playstyles in the game. If you run away correctly and tack on damage, you can then use his speedy offensive game to run in for quick kills.

-Fox's shine is amazing for gimping. Its also really, really easy to use.

-Fox's utilt is stronger and is both a viable kill move and combo move.



Falco:

-Falco can control the pace of the match with his laser.

-Falco has very high priority on his bair and dair. (Alot more than Fox)

-Falco has one of the best shield pressure games in melee.

-Falco has very easy and effective on-stage edge-guarding. His dair is ****, and his dsmash is invincible during some of its active frames.

 

[Strong Badam]

fox is quick, has a very good dash dance, has some of the best movement options in the game (see: cactuar), has high damage output (nair/bair, uthrow -> stuff, etc.), amazing edgeguarding through shine and bair, a pretty good recovery, difficult to kill off the top, among other things. he does get comboed like a *****, but so does Falcon and Falco. main thing is that he has strategies that are low risk, high reward.

 

[JPOBS]

because his shine combos into moveset at any percent, vs anyone, on any stage.

nuff said.

 

[TemPesT-]

fox is a lot harder to play than falco.

disagree strongly. Fox might be played faster then Falco, but I think Fox has it A LOT easier then Falco's do.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

disagree strongly. Fox might be played faster then Falco, but I think Fox has it A LOT easier then Falco's do.

i'm not siding or anything, i even main falco, but im curious why do you think falco is easier? i guess i personally would think the fox curve is alot harder than falco, especially when it comes to combos..pillaring in general isn't too complicated i would say.

 

[ChivalRuse]

i'm not siding or anything, i even main falco, but im curious why do you think falco is easier? i guess i personally would think the fox curve is alot harder than falco, especially when it comes to combos..pillaring in general isn't too complicated i would say.

Yea; as Falco, it doesn't require as much effort to control the tempo of the match and contain your opponent's movements. Sometimes when I'm getting ***** as Fox, I'll switch to Falco and just laser and shield pressure mindlessly, and somehow I'll still do better.

As Fox, I find myself falling for things often that Falco isn't vulnerable to. I have to be wary of DD grabs, shield grabs, and aerial > grabs, which are problems Falco's lasers either eliminate or reduce considerably.

 

[Miggz]

* Extremely mobile
* Devastating shine combos
*Excellent grab game
*Has superb on/offstage edge guarding
*His size actually makes him more annoying to hit

Oh and Fox's taunt is clearly the best in the game. ^^

 

[TresChikon]

Just hit down + B.

 

[Strong Badam]

Oh and Fox's taunt is clearly the best in the game. ^^

Have you ever seen DK's taunt?

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

Have you ever seen DK's taunt?

obviously not. orrrr puff's paused twitch eye taunt, definitely a fav ;D

 

[TresChikon]

Duh, Pichu has two taunts. TWO. End of story

 

[chize]

fox's killing power

his broken shine, stupid bair, and ******** upsmash/uair

 

[Strong Badam]

i think people exaggerate his shine a lot.... yeah it combos pretty well (so does Falco's) and is good for shinespiking/edgeguarding, but it isn't why he's top tier. he's quick and has a great DD, and nair/bair have some of the highest priority in the game.

 

[chize]

idk what you are talking about, it could reflect projectiles for goodness sake

his bushy tail makes him top tier

 

[TresChikon]

Most versatile Down+B in the game.

Falco is worse than Fox = No set knockback in his shine.

Throw set knockback in his shine and he'll infinite everything and melee will crumble underneath his pillars of hell.

Never question the blatant brokenness of Fox's shine.

 

[joeplicate]

what makes fox so good?

hella ****

 

[TemPesT-]

i'm not siding or anything, i even main falco, but im curious why do you think falco is easier? i guess i personally would think the fox curve is alot harder than falco, especially when it comes to combos..pillaring in general isn't too complicated i would say.

i said fox IS easier.

he has more options etc etc. also i find him easier to play but thats probably because i picked him up before falco.

 

[TresChikon]

i said fox IS easier.

he has more options etc etc. also i find him easier to play but thats probably because i picked him up before falco.

Well, dat's situational.

A nooby Fox vs. scrubby Falco = Falco wins

Pro Fox vs. Pro Falco = well can't say, but Fox does have much more of a selction than bird brain

 

[PB&J]

fox is automatic and falco is manual

fox can kill the quickest in the game

but falco has the best offense

falco is much harder to use than fox because..u have to tech chase more...read people's di more and be really good at recovery

fox can play the same way against every character were falco has to switch it up against icy's,puff,ganon,samus, and zelda

i say dont give up on falco because most people who play this game suk vs falco and u should just work on ur laser game and learn combo's

but besides that

fox ***** the whole cast and doesnt have one bad match ups in this game..he has 5 even ones,, but still can **** the when he has the momentum..just play both son..trust me ..people are use to fox more than falco

 

[SwiftBass]

Unfortunately theres probly no other character that people overall know how to play against more.

you better be unique or extremely solid fundamentally or your fox will get ***** by average level players(perhaps ones you feel like you should beat).

low tiers LOVE fox players.

I'd like to also point out that falco at the last big major did considerably better than fox. I'm not saying that it has THE most significance but to say that it has none would be silly.

In short: coming up as a fox player is very difficult now I suggests playing both. Falco will def be able to handle some jank matchups(uncommon characters) better than ur fox will in some cases. switching it up seems to be the way to go

edit:
in terms of being good usmash and uair kinda define fox and separates him from the others. His ability to kill upward is ridiculous

 

[Ghostly]

fox is automatic and falco is manual

fox can kill the quickest in the game

but falco has the best offense

falco is much harder to use than fox because..u have to tech chase more...read people's di more and be really good at recovery

fox can play the same way against every character were falco has to switch it up against icy's,puff,ganon,samus, and zelda

i say dont give up on falco because most people who play this game suk vs falco and u should just work on ur laser game and learn combo's

but besides that

fox ***** the whole cast and doesnt have one bad match ups in this game..he has 5 even ones,, but still can **** the when he has the momentum..just play both son..trust me ..people are use to fox more than falco

My only down sides to falco are his recovery and I am more on the deffensive and not offensive.. He is definitely is one of my secondaries though.

 

[RaynEX]

fox is automatic and falco is manual

falco is much harder to use than fox because..u have to tech chase more...read people's di more and be really good at recovery

fox can play the same way against every character were falco has to switch it up against icy's,puff,ganon,samus, and zelda


fox ***** the whole cast and doesnt have one bad match ups in this game..he has 5 even ones,, but still can **** the when he has the momentum..just play both son..trust me ..people are use to fox more than falco

First of all:

-If anything, FALCO is automatic and Fox is manual. With Falco you can run around and spam lasers and shield pressure mindlessly. Who is going to stop you? Who has enough priority to? Your lasers keep your opponent locked down and you just spam techskill. Almost all Falco players can attest to him being easy to spam with than Fox. Fox is fast, but his tech spam isn't nearly as stupid or effective as Falco's is.

-Falco would have to techchase LESS than Fox. Fox's shine knocks most of his opponents down. Hitting with nair or shine sets up tech chase options with more than half the cast. Falco on the other can is only using dair and shine, which combos on everyone. His throws also don't knock his opponents down (most of the time). Fox has to play a more grounded techchase game than Falco does. Besides, with Falco you don't even have to think. Just shoot a laser where you think they're going to go and you win. If by read more you mean spam more lasers then I agree.

-Fox can play the same against Fox/Falco/Falcon the same way he plays against Jiggs, Peach, Samus? lol don't even start. Again, its Falco who has it easier. His laser shuts down EVERY CHARACTER. Fox's uthrow uair and waveshine don't even work in some of his match-ups. Falco is mr. no think. Just shoot lasers at everything, and use the shine that works on all characters. Falco doesn't have to switch up anything, his camp game works on the whole cast.

-Saying Fox doesn't have a single bad match-up in the whole game is a monstrous fallacy. Sheik is the character with no bad match-ups. Fox doesn't get ***** per say, but he definitely has his share of unfavourable fights. Falco beats Fox, Marth beats Fox on FD, Peach beats Fox on FD. He doesn't have as many "bad" match-ups as Falco does, but he still has them.

Unfortunately theres probly no other character that people overall know how to play against more.

you better be unique or extremely solid fundamentally or your fox will get ***** by average level players(perhaps ones you feel like you should beat).

low tiers LOVE fox players.

I'd like to also point out that falco at the last big major did considerably better than fox. I'm not saying that it has THE most significance but to say that it has none would be silly.

In short: coming up as a fox player is very difficult now I suggests playing both. Falco will def be able to handle some jank matchups(uncommon characters) better than ur fox will in some cases. switching it up seems to be the way to go

Agreed.

 

[Cyan_]

Raynex (or can I call you Bernard , you should come to Vaughan and make my Fox better. :D

Btw, Fox definitely has to tech chase more than Falco, at least the way I see it. Falco spikes, opponent techs, you techchase with laser/fsmash. (obviously not the only one, but the main one)

Fox has quite a bit more techchasing to do than that

 

[Razor]

fox's upkills are ridiculous. so are his grabs. and edgeguarding. and his recovery is great

falco can barely upkill. limited grab combos. edguarding is soso. and has weak recovery.


fox seems to abuse the weaknesses of a lot of chars, floaty weights and slow speeds. that said, fox is so easy to bust up. falco just pushes everyone around. it's up to you to push back.

 

[RaynEX]

fox's upkills are ridiculous. so are his grabs. and edgeguarding. and his recovery is great

falco can barely upkill. limited grab combos. edguarding is soso. and has weak recovery.


fox seems to abuse the weaknesses of a lot of chars, floaty weights and slow speeds. that said, fox is so easy to bust up. falco just pushes everyone around. it's up to you to push back.

-Falco's edge-guarding is anything but soso. Dair? Partially invincible dsmash?

-Since when does a character have to "up" kill to be good? Marth, Sheik, Falcon, Ganon, Peach, etc etc etc?

I agree with his abuse of the weaknesses of floaties and slower characters.

 

[JPOBS]

i agree with swiftbass, pretty much every char in the game knows how to fight fox, just because there are so many fox's around, and despite being a great character, pretty much everyone can do nasty things once they get the opening.

falco on the other hand doesnt suffer this problem quite as bad because his lasers can shut down opponents, and in unfamiliar matchups, all u need to do is spam lasers till u get the hag of it, whereas with fox, you risk getting messed up something viscious and before you know it you just got 0-death by a gaw LOL

every fox main should have a falco in their back pocket. and vice versa. theres no reason not too.

Fox mains should have a falco secondary for questionable matchups where they may feel uneasy (mid tiers, falcos, maybe marth )

Falco mains should have a fox secondary for floaties and teams.

thats how i look at it.

-disclaimer-
fox or falco vs marth could go either way. people think marth beats falco worse than he does fox but really, marth does the EXACT same thing to both of them. grabs are gay, and if he gets you off stage, you should be dead, even with fox's better recovery. the difference who be if you need to contain him with lasers and shield pressure to not get grabbed

 

[weon - X]

idk... they seem pretty even to me, something one of them lacks the other one has a ****load, i wouldn't call any of them aoutomatic, after all this isn't brawl.

 

[RaynEX]

fox or falco vs marth could go either way. people think marth beats falco worse than he does fox but really, marth does the EXACT same thing to both of them. grabs are gay, and if he gets you off stage, you should be dead, even with fox's better recovery. the difference who be if you need to contain him with lasers and shield pressure to not get grabbed

I agree almost everything you said. Marth does have the advantage vs. Falco though. Yes, he does the exact same thing to both of them. Its just alot easier to do vs. Falco. He's not as fast and is easy to corner. He has a terrible recovery, so literally one hit off stage and he dies. Fox isn't much better, but the distance he gets on his recoveries help alot. Beyond getting gimped extremely easily, the match-up is very, very similar.

edit: I forgot to mention that Foxes can combo and kill Marth alot easier than Falco can. All Fox needs is a dair waveshine or grab to mess Marth up. Falco needs a...shine to custom combo? Grab to maybe follow-up? Dair to 3 hits? Fox gets like 50% free damage from shine or grab or usmash. Even if you miss with Fox, he's so fast you can just chase Marth and do more ****. lol

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

I agree almost everything you said. Marth does have the advantage vs. Falco though. Yes, he does the exact same thing to both of them. Its just alot easier to do vs. Falco. He's not as fast and is easy to corner. He has a terrible recovery, so literally one hit off stage and he dies. Fox isn't much better, but the distance he gets on his recoveries help alot. Beyond getting gimped extremely easily, the match-up is very, very similar.

edit: I forgot to mention that Foxes can combo and kill Marth alot easier than Falco can. All Fox needs is a dair waveshine or grab to mess Marth up. Falco needs a...shine to custom combo? Grab to maybe follow-up? Dair to 3 hits? Fox gets like 50% free damage from shine or grab or usmash. Even if you miss with Fox, he's so fast you can just chase Marth and do more ****. lol

yooo raynex. do you have aim? i wanted to ask you some fox stuff real quick :D

hitmeup

 

[Oskurito]

I forgot to mention that Foxes can combo and kill Marth alot easier than Falco can. All Fox needs is a dair waveshine or grab to mess Marth up. .... he's so fast you can just chase Marth and do more ****. lol

Yeah, that's why I think fox has a little better match up against marth than falco does. dair waveshine into nair > upsmash or grab > bair/uair is very easy to pull off and does decent damage, on the other hand falco has to work up a bit more with combos/grabs into tech chases to rack up dmage.

But I really don't think falco is mr no think. lol I mean you can spam lasers mindlessly and get away with it.. against mediocre players it will work pretty well but not against good ones.

Oh and btw Raynex, did you came back from europe? or w.e country you've been, hmm I don't remember

 

[PB&J]

falco is def not automatic.look how many good fox players compared to falco like 5 times the amount compared to falco

falco has to think way more because if he gets hit he dies..and coming with falco is way harder than to combo with fox..ask any top falco player and they will agree with me..chops lives with me now and he will def tell u what im saying is true..ask shiz..ask mango..ask rice..dr pp..ask zhu

fox can run circles on people

even on falco i dont no y u think falco ***** fox..its dead even or fox's favor

fox's rewards or way better than falco's..once people learn how to get around lasers falco is through..shiek and falco is even..icy's have an advantage by far..fox doesnt get ***** by peach on fd..just dont get grabbed

if u use the fd logic with the marth /fox match up and peach/fox match i can say icy's **** every character on fd because they have the best grab death como's in the game on 98% of the cast but thats not the case is it

fox can drill shine up throw jump shine up air the characters he can upthrow up air.lasers arent that big of a deal once u learn the match up

thats y me and others from the south think its funny how alot of top people suk against falco..if linguini a ganon main can get around lasers any character can

fox ***** the cast and goes even with shiek,icy's,puff,falco, and peach

and if people disagree with me about peach ..y do most of the fox mains suk against peach

and he goes even against marth on fd..ever watch pc vs m2k at oc3 or jman vs m2k..fox ***** falco has to struggle way more and do way more work..people need to learn how to power shiled more and wave dash out of shield to another shield it ***** falco..watch colbol play any falco

 

[JPOBS]

the reason why people generally think falco is a soft counter to fox is because, on any stage except fd, theres nothing to REALLY be afraid of.

on every other stage, fox is going to have to link together about 2-4 successful combos, and a few reads. Thunders combo, maybe a techchase upsmash or something, but for the most part, falco can escape after taking like 20-30 damage and then reset the situation. any falco is happy with taking his chances with you missing a tech read. whereas with falco, it doesnt matter what stage your on, if falco hits you with a dair, shine, or nair that you didnt cc, you are gonna get a garunteed 60% and maybe even death.

on FD though, fox is deadly to falco, his one time combos turn into extended chaingrabs and upsmash and junk. every other stage though, a falco doesnt have to be nearly as afraid of fox.

and waveshielding isnt the be all end all of beating falco, he can grab you, or just shield pressure you. but i agree it is a underused strategy.

 

[Life After Death]

First of all:

-If anything, FALCO is automatic and Fox is manual. With Falco you can run around and spam lasers and shield pressure mindlessly. Who is going to stop you? Who has enough priority to? Your lasers keep your opponent locked down and you just spam techskill. Almost all Falco players can attest to him being easy to spam with than Fox. Fox is fast, but his tech spam isn't nearly as stupid or effective as Falco's is.

-Falco would have to techchase LESS than Fox. Fox's shine knocks most of his opponents down. Hitting with nair or shine sets up tech chase options with more than half the cast. Falco on the other can is only using dair and shine, which combos on everyone. His throws also don't knock his opponents down (most of the time). Fox has to play a more grounded techchase game than Falco does. Besides, with Falco you don't even have to think. Just shoot a laser where you think they're going to go and you win. If by read more you mean spam more lasers then I agree.

-Fox can play the same against Fox/Falco/Falcon the same way he plays against Jiggs, Peach, Samus? lol don't even start. Again, its Falco who has it easier. His laser shuts down EVERY CHARACTER. Fox's uthrow uair and waveshine don't even work in some of his match-ups. Falco is mr. no think. Just shoot lasers at everything, and use the shine that works on all characters. Falco doesn't have to switch up anything, his camp game works on the whole cast.

-Saying Fox doesn't have a single bad match-up in the whole game is a monstrous fallacy. Sheik is the character with no bad match-ups. Fox doesn't get ***** per say, but he definitely has his share of unfavourable fights. Falco beats Fox, Marth beats Fox on FD, Peach beats Fox on FD. He doesn't have as many "bad" match-ups as Falco does, but he still has them.



Agreed.

falco and fox are even.

look how easily this huge ganon gets around lasers lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLLOTLHvRMc&feature=related

 

[Strong Badam]

the reason why people generally think falco is a soft counter to fox is because, on any stage except fd, theres nothing to REALLY be afraid of.

on every other stage, fox is going to have to link together about 2-4 successful combos, and a few reads. Thunders combo, maybe a techchase upsmash or something, but for the most part, falco can escape after taking like 20-30 damage and then reset the situation. any falco is happy with taking his chances with you missing a tech read. whereas with falco, it doesnt matter what stage your on, if falco hits you with a dair, shine, or nair that you didnt cc, you are gonna get a garunteed 60% and maybe even death.

on FD though, fox is deadly to falco, his one time combos turn into extended chaingrabs and upsmash and junk. every other stage though, a falco doesnt have to be nearly as afraid of fox.

and waveshielding isnt the be all end all of beating falco, he can grab you, or just shield pressure you. but i agree it is a underused strategy.

.... i didn't find much of this accurate at all.

 

[JPOBS]

.... i didn't find much of this accurate at all.

cool beans.

 

[RaynEX]

falco and fox are even.

look how easily this huge ganon gets around lasers lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLLOTLHvRMc&feature=related

Chopz: Not EVERY Ganon lives in Florida, the home of technical space animals, and has some of the best Falcos in the world to play with on a regular basis. Notice how there aren't any other Ganons who do the spacy match-ups better than Linguini. Ganon isn't good vs. spacies, LINGUINI is good vs. spacies.