What is something you just... don’t get about Super Smash Bros?

[StormC]

Well yes you're right. There are a few Zelda characters that have been requested for years that we've never gotten like Skullkid, Impa, Midna, etc. I'm not sure why FE gets so many characters. Maybe because FE has such a huge following in Japan? Maybe FE is more popular than Zelda over there? I don't know. I'm not sure how he decides that. FE feels like it has more of a presence in smash because it has the most semi-clones and echoes. And since mostly everyone in FE wields a sword, it's super easy to add them in to the game. That would be my guess as to why there are so many. I do wish characters like Skullkid, Impa, or Midna made their way in. Zelda is full of good choices. But my reasoning for adding them in is because those characters have been long requested and not just to give the Zelda franchise more presense. I do see what you mean though.

Every character in FE is either a main protagonist or an echo that was originally an alt costume (so ). The Zelda characters you're mentioning are supporting characters, which are less important to the story than the Triforce. Sakurai more or less never adds one-off characters that aren't protagonists to any series, barring special cases like clones or Sheik, who was originally part of Zelda's moveset.

That said, Impa is a recurring supporting character, so she is probably on the table as at least an echo fighter. But Sakurai would have to move past his inclination towards main characters and recurring characters to start adding fighters like Skull Kid and Midna.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Every character in FE is either a main protagonist or an echo that was originally an alt costume (so ). The Zelda characters you're mentioning are supporting characters, which are less important to the story than the Triforce. Sakurai more or less never adds one-off characters that aren't protagonists to any series, barring special cases like clones or Sheik, who was originally part of Zelda's moveset.

That said, Impa is a recurring supporting character, so she is probably on the table as at least an echo fighter. But Sakurai would have to move past his inclination towards main characters and recurring characters to start adding fighters like Skull Kid and Midna.

I’d say Skull Kid is also on the table considering he was the main villain, not a side character, in one of the most popular Zelda games to date. Also, to be really technical, Skull Kid is a recurring character as well, appearing in OoT, TP, and obviously MM, in addition to spin-offs like Hyrule Warriors. I’d even argue that Skull Kid and Midna are FAR more popular than almost all of the FE characters currently on the roster, and several others for that matter. Clearly, relevancy isn’t a defining factor anymore with characters like K Rool and Simon making the leap to playable

 

[osby]

I’d say Skull Kid is also on the table considering he was the main villain, not a side character, in one of the most popular Zelda games to date. Also, to be really technical, Skull Kid is a recurring character as well, appearing in OoT, TP, and obviously MM, in addition to spin-offs like Hyrule Warriors. I’d even argue that Skull Kid and Midna are FAR more popular than almost all of the FE characters currently on the roster, and several others for that matter. Clearly, relevancy isn’t a defining factor anymore with characters like K Rool and Simon making the leap to playable

1. The Skull Kid people really care only made a major appearence in one game. I'm not nitpicking, he can happen, Rosalina is a thing but he's not even Ganondorf level recurring.
2. I'd agree about LoZ side characters being more iconic than FE protagonists but I can't see how this supports your claim.

 

[StormC]

I’d say Skull Kid is also on the table considering he was the main villain, not a side character, in one of the most popular Zelda games to date. Also, to be really technical, Skull Kid is a recurring character as well, appearing in OoT, TP, and obviously MM, in addition to spin-offs like Hyrule Warriors. I’d even argue that Skull Kid and Midna are FAR more popular than almost all of the FE characters currently on the roster, and several others for that matter. Clearly, relevancy isn’t a defining factor anymore with characters like K Rool and Simon making the leap to playable

It's not about relevancy, it's about importance. "The" Skull Kid that people care about was only in one mainline game and didn't even have a boss fight. Simon is the de facto mascot of Castlevania and K. Rool is the main villain of the DK series, having appeared in multiple games.

Now obviously if Skull Kid makes it in somehow, that will change. But it hasn't changed yet. It might change with Geno soon enough.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

1. The Skull Kid people really care only made a major appearence in one game. I'm not nitpicking, he can happen, Rosalina is a thing but he's not even Ganondorf level recurring.
2. I'd agree about LoZ side characters being more iconic than FE protagonists but I can't see how this supports your claim.

It's not about relevancy, it's about importance. "The" Skull Kid that people care about was only in one mainline game and didn't even have a boss fight. Simon is the de facto mascot of Castlevania and K. Rool is the main villain of the DK series, having appeared in multiple games.

Now obviously if Skull Kid makes it in somehow, that will change. But it hasn't changed yet. It might change with Geno soon enough.

I agree that Skull Kid is really only popular because of one appearance, but I’d say that even with this one appearance he is very important in the world of gaming. He is what allows us to have the symbol of Majora’s Mask, which is by far one of the most iconic and important symbols in all of gaming. We are also at the point where Zelda is popular enough to receive its second most important/popular villain, and given the influx of villains in Ultimate, he would certainly fit right in. There are several, SEVERAL other characters in the roster that are massively less important than him, and my example of FE characters just supports this idea. I mean, side LoZ characters are massively more popular and relevant than characters like Lucas, Dark Samus, Palutena, and others. I like these characters, so it doesn’t bother me a bit they are in the game, but just because a character isn’t the main character doesn’t mean they are irrelevant and unimportant.

 

[Luigifan18]

I agree that Skull Kid is really only popular because of one appearance, but I’d say that even with this one appearance he is very important in the world of gaming. He is what allows us to have the symbol of Majora’s Mask, which is by far one of the most iconic and important symbols in all of gaming. We are also at the point where Zelda is popular enough to receive its second most important/popular villain, and given the influx of villains in Ultimate, he would certainly fit right in. There are several, SEVERAL other characters in the roster that are massively less important than him, and my example of FE characters just supports this idea. I mean, side LoZ characters are massively more popular and relevant than characters like Lucas, Dark Samus, Palutena, and others. I like these characters, so it doesn’t bother me a bit they are in the game, but just because a character isn’t the main character doesn’t mean they are irrelevant and unimportant.

The second most important villain is clearly Vaati, as he's Ganondorf's immediate predecessor canonically and has three appearances to his name. Now, in terms of popularity... Skull Kid probably has Vaati beat.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

The second most important villain is clearly Vaati, as he's Ganondorf's immediate predecessor canonically and has three appearances to his name. Now, in terms of popularity... Skull Kid probably has Vaati beat.

Yeah in terms of canonical importance itd be Vaati or Ganon, I should have clarified that I meant popularity

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

You know, it can be baffling how people still want a playable Ganon when Demon King Ganon (replacing Beast Ganon) is already in the game as Ganondorf's Final Smash.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

You know, it can be baffling how people still want a playable Ganon when Demon King Ganon (replacing Beast Ganon) is already in the game as Ganondorf's Final Smash.

Same here now that you mention it. Like how can that work to begin with if Ganon alone is Ganondorf's final smash?

 

[Crystanium]

I’d say Skull Kid is also on the table considering he was the main villain, not a side character, in one of the most popular Zelda games to date. Also, to be really technical, Skull Kid is a recurring character as well, appearing in OoT, TP, and obviously MM, in addition to spin-offs like Hyrule Warriors. I’d even argue that Skull Kid and Midna are FAR more popular than almost all of the FE characters currently on the roster, and several others for that matter. Clearly, relevancy isn’t a defining factor anymore with characters like K Rool and Simon making the leap to playable

When people think of Skull Kid, they think of the character wearing Majora's Mask. Any other time, skull kids aren't even memorable. I actually had to pause and think for a moment on whether or not there was a skull kid in TP. I remembered, but that one didn't leave an impression on me. I can't say the one in MM is even the same one you met in OoT. That said, I think if there is going to be a particular incarnation of Link, other characters like Zelda and Ganondorf should match, or Ganondorf should be replaced with another villain. I understand from a development point-of-view, that's not realistic. Overhauling probably takes a lot more time than just working with a preset.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

When people think of Skull Kid, they think of the character wearing Majora's Mask. Any other time, skull kids aren't even memorable. I actually had to pause and think for a moment on whether or not there was a skull kid in TP. I remembered, but that one didn't leave an impression on me. I can't say the one in MM is even the same one you met in OoT. That said, I think if there is going to be a particular incarnation of Link, other characters like Zelda and Ganondorf should match, or Ganondorf should be replaced with another villain. I understand from a development point-of-view, that's not realistic. Overhauling probably takes a lot more time than just working with a preset.

I get what you’re saying. Really, I just think now that DK and Metroid have gotten their long deserved extra characters, Zelda is by far the series in need of new characters most. I think we can all agree the series deserves far more character-wise than what we have now.

 

[Oddball]

The same way Samus and Mario can be different characters when they change clothes.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

Why does still have two spin dashes after three games? Was it Sonic Team saying Sakurai couldn't change it? Did he think people would drop Sonic if one of them was gone? Like really, no other character has this issue off the top of my head.

's custom moves in Smash 4 were just...urgh. No Ice, Wave, Plasma, Spazer or Nova Beams, no Seeker or Ice Missiles, no Shinespark, no Prime Screw Attack, no Power Bombs, NOTHING. got to pull from his multi-game arsenal, what's Samus' excuse? And why the heck can't she roll around in Morph Ball form still? That's got to be the most obvious thing they haven't done yet and it's been 19 years.

My poor wifeis probably the worst represented character in this series; incorrect stance, fighting style, and personality. I'm very happy her model was redone for Ultimate to look more beautiful and alive, but then came in. Chrom, who despite being rejected by Sakurai previously for having nothing original to work with, ended up a clone like his daughter- except he got special treatment including new particle effects, a new up special, and even his own Final Smash. What did his daughter get for her second appearance?

NOTHING! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! SHE'S STILL JUST MARTH 1.0 WITH NOTHING TO SET HER APART FURTHER DESPITE ALL THE TIME THEY HAD TO DO SO! SAKURAI YOU'RE AMAZING BUT THIS IS UNFAIR! THIS IS A DOUBLE STANDARD! THIS IS-

*ahem*

Excuse my angry fanboying.

 

[Crystanium]

I get what you’re saying. Really, I just think now that DK and Metroid have gotten their long deserved extra characters, Zelda is by far the series in need of new characters most. I think we can all agree the series deserves far more character-wise than what we have now.

I really like Sheik. I picked her up as a secondary for a while before going back to Zero Suit Samus and really trying my hardest to make her work. I think it'd make the most sense to drop Sheik, though. I'm perfectly fine with the Zelda series being as is without Sheik if they had to remove characters. I'd be sad, but she's only been in a single game. The only alternative I could see if changing her name to Impa and giving her Impa's appearance. The whole Zelda crew could get some improvements and make Zelda a better character. Ganondorf could be overhauled, although retaining his new smash attacks would be fine.

I'd be fine with ZSS being dropped, but my biggest issue is that she's currently the only best Metroid character in terms of frame data and all that jazz. I doubt Samus would be given ZSS' frame data and similar moveset. I'm not sure how good Ridley will be, and I doubt he's going to be all that great. Here's hoping I'm wrong. I'm the kind of guy who would be fine with three characters per series, although I'd make an exception for Mario, only because I know people would complain about Luigi or Peach being cut.

I'm of the opinion of having a small roster. I'd be fine with up to 40 characters, and this is before introducing DLC if that continued to be an option. I can see new characters being added into the 40. My main reason for holding to a reduced roster is because I'm mainly concerned with balanced characters. I know no fighting game is truly balanced, and there will always be a low-tiered character, but I'd rather have a low-tiered character still be a viable character.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'd be fine with ZSS being dropped

Or they could just make Zero Suit Samus and Samus back as one character.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

I really like Sheik. I picked her up as a secondary for a while before going back to Zero Suit Samus and really trying my hardest to make her work. I think it'd make the most sense to drop Sheik, though. I'm perfectly fine with the Zelda series being as is without Sheik if they had to remove characters. I'd be sad, but she's only been in a single game. The only alternative I could see if changing her name to Impa and giving her Impa's appearance. The whole Zelda crew could get some improvements and make Zelda a better character. Ganondorf could be overhauled, although retaining his new smash attacks would be fine.

I'd be fine with ZSS being dropped, but my biggest issue is that she's currently the only best Metroid character in terms of frame data and all that jazz. I doubt Samus would be given ZSS' frame data and similar moveset. I'm not sure how good Ridley will be, and I doubt he's going to be all that great. Here's hoping I'm wrong. I'm the kind of guy who would be fine with three characters per series, although I'd make an exception for Mario, only because I know people would complain about Luigi or Peach being cut.

I'm of the opinion of having a small roster. I'd be fine with up to 40 characters, and this is before introducing DLC if that continued to be an option. I can see new characters being added into the 40. My main reason for holding to a reduced roster is because I'm mainly concerned with balanced characters. I know no fighting game is truly balanced, and there will always be a low-tiered character, but I'd rather have a low-tiered character still be a viable character.

That’s interesting, we’re very different, you and I, concerning views on roster size. So, I’m curious then, were you dissatisfied with the everyone is here approach or have you come to accept it? I’m not trying to start an argument or anything I’m just genuinely curious

 

[osby]

I agree that Skull Kid is really only popular because of one appearance, but I’d say that even with this one appearance he is very important in the world of gaming. He is what allows us to have the symbol of Majora’s Mask, which is by far one of the most iconic and important symbols in all of gaming. We are also at the point where Zelda is popular enough to receive its second most important/popular villain, and given the influx of villains in Ultimate, he would certainly fit right in. There are several, SEVERAL other characters in the roster that are massively less important than him, and my example of FE characters just supports this idea. I mean, side LoZ characters are massively more popular and relevant than characters like Lucas, Dark Samus, Palutena, and others. I like these characters, so it doesn’t bother me a bit they are in the game, but just because a character isn’t the main character doesn’t mean they are irrelevant and unimportant.

Sure, but you can't keep comparing characters from different franchises or we would have far more Pokemon and Mario characters than we have now.

 

[ArcticKat]

I liked the way Pit played in Brawl.
In the 3DS/Wii U iteration, his moves were altered a lot, which annoyed me. Moreover, Dark Pit was a newcomer, but he played the same way as regular Pit.
I don’t get why.
Why couldn’t we have one of them keep the move set from Brawl instead of have two of essentially the same thing?

 

[osby]

I liked the way Pit played in Brawl.
In the 3DS/Wii U iteration, his moves were altered a lot, which annoyed me. Moreover, Dark Pit was a newcomer, but he played the same way as regular Pit.
I don’t get why.
Why couldn’t we have one of them keep the move set from Brawl instead of have two of essentially the same thing?

Because that would create additional balance work and Dark Pit added too late in the development to have a different moveset than Pit.

 

[MacSmitty]

Lets be honest, he'd just make him like Mario.

Look at the Links, who all have LOTS of possible items and weaponry from their seperate games at their disposal and like usual, he just copies and pastes, and adds very little changes.

See: almost all of our Sword Emblem characters.

What? There's no way the devs will make Paper Mario echo regular Mario if he was added. Paper Mario doesn't even have legs, and having him do other Mario animations would be so off putting.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Since this is apparently an off-topic thread now, I'll go ahead and point out again that I want Skull Kid even if he makes no reference to Majora's Mask (although not having Tatl and Tael would suck). The mask looks cool, but I want him to be either ambiguously possessed by it or clearly not. That means no tentacle nonsense or hexing magic in his moveset.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Since this is apparently an off-topic thread now, I'll go ahead and point out again that I want Skull Kid even if he makes no reference to Majora's Mask (although not having Tatl and Tael would suck). The mask looks cool, but I want him to be either ambiguously possessed by it or clearly not. That means no tentacle nonsense or hexing magic in his moveset.

Same for me. It’s largely my fault this thread derailed, so I’m sorry and I’ll fix it now.

I have personally never understood the mindset that characters have to meet an assortment of requirements to fit in and make it into the game. It’s as if people view smash as some VIP club of gaming, while I personally view it as a potluck, with characters showing up left and right, from all branches of gaming.

I also think the competitive side of things should come second to the actual game itself. I of course recognize that the competitive side is important, so it should be tailored to, just not before the rest. I think having a large, colossal roster I’d vastly more important than having a small, balanced one. People don’t realize that the majority love smash because it’s this huge crossover where all their favorite characters get to duke it out, not because it’s the best competitive game of the century. Only the vocal minority are hardcore competitive players, so the casuals should absoultely be catered to foremost.

 

[SmashBro99]

What? There's no way the devs will make Paper Mario echo regular Mario if he was added. Paper Mario doesn't even have legs, and having him do other Mario animations would be so off putting.

Still wouldn't put it past them, they are sporadically very lazy and unoriginal.

3 Different Links with different games all have pretty much the same moveset.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

3 Different Links with different games all have pretty much the same moveset.

Not entirely. Breath of the Wild Link doesn't have a Clawshot or Hookshot, so his grab range is worse, and he doesn't have a tether recovery either.

 

[Deleted member]

To speculators, does every character or franchise have to have yearly releases like Madden or Call of Duty in order to be "relevant enough" for Smash?

"Mega Man was so dead prior to Smash 4!"

His last game only came two years prior to the base roster being finalized in Smash 4. And what does that make Shulk (two years, though his game had just come out in North America) or Little Mac (three years)?

"Castlevania was so dead prior to Ultimate!"

It had only been a year and a half since the last non-pachinko Castlevania game during Ultimate's roster being finalized, and the last to feature Simon had only preceded that by a year. Richter, okay, other than that one pachinko machine, he hadn't been seen in half a decade.

 

[Squirtle/Mario guy]

1. Bandana Dee isn't in Smash
2. People request characters like Goku or Shrek

 

[SmashBro99]

Not entirely. Breath of the Wild Link doesn't have a Clawshot or Hookshot, so his grab range is worse, and he doesn't have a tether recovery either.

So like I said, they all pretty much have the same moveset, lol.

 

[_Fresh_]

If Paper Mario were to be included he'd be like . 2D, similar mechanics but different movesets. Instead of the number and hammer he'd just have the hammer. Instead of firemen for up b he'd have some goombas perform something similar or he'd jump off one ala . His ariels would also have to be similar to because of his lack of 3D mapping. Neat concept.

 

[SonicMario]

Why does still have two spin dashes after three games? Was it Sonic Team saying Sakurai couldn't change it? Did he think people would drop Sonic if one of them was gone? Like really, no other character has this issue off the top of my head.

Sonic's two spin dashes are for mix-ups and confusing the opponent. Savvy enough players can tell the difference, but they do all have their purposes. While there are certainly rushed, easy animations in Brawl's Sonic's moveset given he was last minute. I don't think the core of his moveset would of been much different had Sega said yes from the very beginning since I doubt Sakurai had scrapped it entirely and then forgot a more varied moveset back when Sonic was in the project plan.

Sonic has changed in other areas since Brawl outside of his specials though so it's not like nothing has been done since Brawl. But just saying the two spindashes do have a purpose in the way Sonic fights in Smash.

 

[smashingDoug]

Why does Kirby only have 3 fighters.
It's way more popular than FE, DK, and Kid Icarus

You can’t complain when Kirby got two new fighters in brawl, one very op and one pretty unique. DK one got, one KI just got in, FE lost a clone and gain one unique

Smash 4 Kirby got no new fighters, one big new stage and one moveing stage, and one dlc stage. DK barely got anything new. KI what was developed with new Smash stuff in mind. FE a series what was on its death bed had a game what saved the series got two stages one on each console one unique fighter one clone, two dlc characters one semi and one to sell a new game.

Ultimate
DK finally got K ROOL and you are kidding you self if you think anyone from else from DK or Kirby should of got in before him. So he is highly over do

FE got a new echo for a character who had a model made up back in Smash 4 boo hoo

KI hasn’t really got anything yet

 

[The DanMan051]

I don't get why we needed another unpopular opinions thread full of irrational whining.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

Sonic's two spin dashes are for mix-ups and confusing the opponent. Savvy enough players can tell the difference, but they do all have their purposes. While there are certainly rushed, easy animations in Brawl's Sonic's moveset given he was last minute. I don't think the core of his moveset would of been much different had Sega said yes from the very beginning since I doubt Sakurai had scrapped it entirely and then forgot a more varied moveset back when Sonic was in the project plan.

Sonic has changed in other areas since Brawl outside of his specials though so it's not like nothing has been done since Brawl. But just saying the two spindashes do have a purpose in the way Sonic fights in Smash.

A good answer, can’t say I don’t make use of both. Sorry if I came off as whiny.

 

[WolfCypher]

Why did Sakurai keep Kirby the sole Kirby rep in Melee

Why won't he use Donkey Kong's real voice in these games

Why can't we replace FLUDD with a newer reference for Mario's Down Special

Why did Sakurai leave Nintendo because he was afraid of being trapped making sequels and same-y games, yet is now only making Smash games anyway

Why even lie about Bayonetta being the ballot winner; just put her in the game regardless, you don't have to say a character you were already working on was who won by votes; just admit the poll was for research, leave Bayonetta's inclusion out of it

 

[Fibberkick]

Why r/kappa hates us so much. They bridge our sub they **** talk us say then say "Where the toxic ones" They say smash is a party game by "He said so" but when we say "He also said this" It's downvoted to hell like what?

 

[osby]

Why did Sakurai leave Nintendo because he was afraid of being trapped making sequels and same-y games, yet is now only making Smash games anyway

Why even lie about Bayonetta being the ballot winner; just put her in the game regardless, you don't have to say a character you were already working on was who won by votes; just admit the poll was for research, leave Bayonetta's inclusion out of it

Sakurai said he doesn't like doing sequels with barely any new content. This doesn't really apply to Smash.

He didn't lied about Bayonetta. He said she got the most votes among realizable characters. The characters who got more votes than her could simply be unrealiable during the DLC period. Besides nothing about the ballot said the character that got most votes would be playable automatically.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Sakurai said he doesn't like doing sequels with barely any new content. This doesn't really apply to Smash.

He didn't lied about Bayonetta. He said she got the most votes among realizable characters. The characters who got more votes than her could simply be unrealiable during the DLC period. Besides nothing about the ballot said the character that got most votes would be playable automatically.

I thought it was proven Bayonetta was already being worked on long before the voting system ended?

 

[Good Guy Giygas]

I don't understand why Snake still only has one taunt. It didn't really make sense back in Brawl, but it feels especially lazy not giving him 3 like everyone else since they had the opportunity this time around.

 

[WolfCypher]

Sakurai said he doesn't like doing sequels with barely any new content. This doesn't really apply to Smash.

He didn't lied about Bayonetta. He said she got the most votes among realizable characters. The characters who got more votes than her could simply be unrealiable during the DLC period. Besides nothing about the ballot said the character that got most votes would be playable automatically.

I thought it was proven Bayonetta was already being worked on long before the voting system ended?

I was going to say that YoshiandToad . So to say she got in due to a ballot, when she was always planned, is the question.

 

[xzx]

Lets be honest, he'd just make him like Mario.

Look at the Links, who all have LOTS of possible items and weaponry from their seperate games at their disposal and like usual, he just copies and pastes, and adds very little changes.

See: almost all of our Sword Emblem characters.

Uhh, no, Sakurai wouldn't just make him like Mario, that's not how Sakurai works. I seriously don't get this "Paper Mario would just be another Mario" argument. Have they ever played a Paper Mario game before to be confident enough to make that statement? I don't think so... Sakurai is known for doing research on characters and their games. Paper Mario would be 100% unique.

 

[Frizz]

Uhh, no, Sakurai wouldn't just make him like Mario, that's not how Sakurai works. I seriously don't get this "Paper Mario would just be another Mario" argument. Have they ever played a Paper Mario game before to be confident enough to make that statement? I don't think so... Sakurai is known for doing research on characters and their games. Paper Mario would be 100% unique.

That's true. Sakurai even put in Lucina's Mark of Naga on her left eye, which really wouldn't even be noticeable in normal gameplay.