What franchise is underapprociated/underrepresented in ultimate.

[ivanlerma]

Of franchises already represented, definitely Yoshi, F-Zero, EarthBound/Mother, and Final Fantasy.

I see some people say Game & Watch but there isn't exactly many characters to implement into the game. Same goes for R.O.B. who is pretty much his own series.

More Punch-Out characters would be cool, like maybe King Hippo as another heavy, or Glass Joe just for laughs. But Little Mac represents the series well and I don't think we need more.

Yoshi only has Yoshi and there are a few good choices like Kamek and Poochy that would be welcome additions.

F-Zero only has Capt Falcon and Black Shadow would be a welcome addition (or any other F-Zero character but I would choose him first)

Mother has Lucas and Ness but a third like Ninten or someone more unique like Pokey/Porky would be great to see, though I say this with bias as Mother is my favorite series by far. Still, I think having another rep to either rep the one game in the trilogy that's not yet repped or the villain who would play completely differently than the two existing Mother reps.

Final Fantsay I know is a 3rd aprty franchise but the lack of care put into Cloud's addition is blatantly obvious for some reason. One character with many other great choices to add in, no spirits (seriously, none???), only 2 music tracks in his stage. Why even add him in the first place? Put in Cecil or Terra or Warrior of Light or Squall or Zidane or Vivi, or Tidus, or Sephiroth, you have so many options. Use them. Personally I'd love to see Vivi in the game because not only is FF9 my favorite in the franchise, Vivi is a beloved character and represents the series incredibly well just based on looks alone.

Other franchises I'd love to see repped...

Crash Bandicoot - Super obvious pick. It would be a crime for them not to include Crash into this.

Spyro the Dragon - Less likely but still would be super welcome to see.

No More Heroes - Travis Touchdown feels like a shoe-in. With NMH3 coming out (this year?) and a pretty heavy focus on Nintendo consoles, on top of that Travis would have plenty of awesome moves to show off, it surprises me he wasn't part of the first DLC pack.

Conker - Never going to happen but I'd die and main him instantly.

Pilotwings - So they have a Pilotwings based stage and an icon for it, and there are characters in Pilotwings, at least Pilotwings 64, maybe Lark from that game, and while it's not likely of Pilotwings getting a fighter, they could potentially give them some pretty cool moves, most of them based on flight.

Paper Mario - Okay so I know we have so many Mario reps as it is but Paper Mario would make a great new fighter because he would be different from just regular Mario and Dr Mario. Plus the series has a stage, and it's an awesome series (for the most part)

i think Tifa is another good choice for another final fantasy rep, specifically for some female representation.

 

[Quillion]

i think Tifa is another good choice for another final fantasy rep, specifically for some female representation.

If FF got another character and it's just another FF7 character, I'd be disappointed.

Anyway, another franchise I think is poorly represented in terms of quality is Star Fox. Mainly because ALL THREE fighters are just based on one template. I know people have mixed feelings towards Assault, but they absolutely should pull from that game.

 

[Arthur97]

Final Fantasy should probably focus on getting some supplementary content before people start begging for another fighter.

 

[Ben Holt]

Again with this "Sonic needs special treatment" thing. Can there be more, sure. But I don't see why Sonic needs to be on top of all the third parties for some reason.

Sorry for the late reply.
Sonic, like Mario and Pokémon, is in a league all its own.
Sonic is not just a video game icon, but a CULTURAL icon. ****, it just had a highly successful movie. You cannot go to any retail store in America and not see Sonic the Hedgehog. Like Mario, Pokémon, Mickey Mouse, Spiderman, Superman, Spongebob, and Batman, Sonic is simply omnipresent.
With perhaps the exception of Pac-Man, I guarantee that if you went on the street right now with pictures of all the third-party characters and asked people to name them, Sonic would get more recognition than all the others combined.
Perhaps that's irrelevant to you, but Sonic deserves AT LEAST the main 5 characters to be playable (Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Eggman, and Shadow). It's time to break the mold of one character (plus maybe an Echo) per third party franchise. Smash is well beyond just Nintendo All-Stars now.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Perhaps that's irrelevant to you, but Sonic deserves AT LEAST the main 5 characters to be playable (Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Eggman, and Shadow).

Why is Amy not in this list?

I mean if you’re going to go so far as saying that Sonic deserves 5 characters, you might as well include one more.

 

[Ben Holt]

Why is Amy not in this list?

I mean if you’re going to go so far as saying that Sonic deserves 5 characters, you might as well include one more.

I said "at least".
I could easily go 8 like Fire Emblem.
Amy, Silver, Blaze.

 

[RileyXY1]

I said "at least".
I could easily go 8 like Fire Emblem.
Amy, Silver, Blaze.

And people wouldn't complain, except Nintendo purists of course.

 

[Arthur97]

Seven fighters added in one game for one franchise meaning the bulk of that game's new fighters would be from Sonic, and you think most people wouldn't complain? Especially if they're all full fighters taking full resources.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I don't have a problem with Sonic getting 7 newcomers, so long as other series also get as much, if not more. But if these 7 characters would take up the majority of the newcomers for Smash 6, people will definitely complain.

 

[Perkilator]

You know, I feel like even if Final Fantasy got more songs, Square would only allow:

-Mainline games music
-2 to 3 songs per game
-Only one Smash-original remix per game (not counting remixes from Dissidia or other games)

 

[Champion of Hyrule]

Geez this thread nit-picky. Anyways, Final Fantasy for sure. It’s kinda ridiculous tbh, and there’s absolutely zero things to represent the series aside from Final Fantasy VII And I don’t see any new Final Fantasy characters being added to FP2, because already represents old RPG’s. But maybe if they do add someone else, they can also have spirits from other Square Enix franchises to represent the whole publisher in a kinda Terry/SNK way.

 

[morbelt]

I agree what you said here.

 

[Quillion]

It's time to break the mold of one character (plus maybe an Echo) per third party franchise.

Maybe next Smash game. I like how they're handling third party characters in a gradual manner.

 

[snowgolem]

Zelda is definitely not the most lacking of the series represented, but it’s definitely the one I care about the most. You can say we don’t need 3 links, but I’m pretty sure people only say that because they’re all the same. If they actually drew from their games and had more unique differences then more people would realize how important the 3 links are to represent different parts of a series. It’s like if the Persona 4 protagonist was added back in Smash 4 and we kept that only character to represent a series for the rest of Smash Bros’ lifetime. By then we could have so many more Persona protagonists, it just wouldn’t make sense. It would do a bad job representing the series, which is how I think the Links are for Zelda. Other than that, the stages and music are fine. Spirits are okay. It’s just the fighters that are the problem.
Splatoon is another one. The fighter is okay, but the stage and assist trophy suck. I think they should’ve added an Octoling assist trophy at some point that does more then just turn the mode into sudden death for a few seconds. The stage is also annoying to play on. I really don’t know about spirits, too lazy to check. It’s probably fine though.
kinda wish mega man had a bit more. Another stage would be nice, possibly another character. That’s about it. Mii Costumes are better than fine though. There are so many Megaman Mii costumes, it’s almost as if they’re avoiding adding another character

 

[ivanlerma]

Zelda is definitely not the most lacking of the series represented, but it’s definitely the one I care about the most. You can say we don’t need 3 links, but I’m pretty sure people only say that because they’re all the same. If they actually drew from their games and had more unique differences then more people would realize how important the 3 links are to represent different parts of a series. It’s like if the Persona 4 protagonist was added back in Smash 4 and we kept that only character to represent a series for the rest of Smash Bros’ lifetime. By then we could have so many more Persona protagonists, it just wouldn’t make sense. It would do a bad job representing the series, which is how I think the Links are for Zelda. Other than that, the stages and music are fine. Spirits are okay. It’s just the fighters that are the problem.
Splatoon is another one. The fighter is okay, but the stage and assist trophy suck. I think they should’ve added an Octoling assist trophy at some point that does more then just turn the mode into sudden death for a few seconds. The stage is also annoying to play on. I really don’t know about spirits, too lazy to check. It’s probably fine though.
kinda wish mega man had a bit more. Another stage would be nice, possibly another character. That’s about it. Mii Costumes are better than fine though. There are so many Megaman Mii costumes, it’s almost as if they’re avoiding adding another character

Splatoon's Spirit List includes The Squid Sisters, Cap'n Cuttlefish, Judd & Jr., Inkling Squid, A Couple of the Merchants and Food Truck Owners, Octolings, Octavio(Who evolves into his mech), Off the Hook, and Agent 8(Male & Female and Squid Forms).

i do agree with you on zelda, the link's have different attributes that would help them work well to be considered there own incarnation of a zelda world. we already got breath of the wild link doing that with his remote detonating bombs why can't Young Link use abilities from Majora's Mask? i don't know what Toon Link could do i never played his games.

 

[Quillion]

Zelda is definitely the second biggest example of having high-quantity, low-quality representation after Fire Emblem. It certainly wouldn't hurt if the Links had more divergent moves. Heck, Byleth's normals are actually what I expected Link to have being based on BotW, so Link's moveset feels like a half-hearted effort to make him faithful to BotW while trying not to alienate anyone, yet it still manages to alienate people!

Young Link and Toon Link feel redundant with one another as well. It seems a lot of people wanted Young Link to have transformation mask moves, and Toon Link could have used the Deku Leaf, Skull Hammer, and Grappling Hook.

If we're going by faithfulness alone, Zelda should move Nayru's Love to Down-B and rework Light Arrow as a regular Neutral-B special. Ganondorf should just have a new option for Warlock Punch to be "tapped" for a weak, projectile-reflecting variant. Though if we're going by fun, I'd really want Ganondorf to lose his sword, honestly.

 

[SSGuy]

Xenoblade comes to mind but I am also willing to throw in F-Zero as well. That is a franchise that could have been given more spirits at the least.

 

[Champion of Hyrule]

Zelda is definitely the second biggest example of having high-quantity, low-quality representation after Fire Emblem. It certainly wouldn't hurt if the Links had more divergent moves. Heck, Byleth's normals are actually what I expected Link to have being based on BotW, so Link's moveset feels like a half-hearted effort to make him faithful to BotW while trying not to alienate anyone, yet it still manages to alienate people!

Young Link and Toon Link feel redundant with one another as well. It seems a lot of people wanted Young Link to have transformation mask moves, and Toon Link could have used the Deku Leaf, Skull Hammer, and Grappling Hook.

If we're going by faithfulness alone, Zelda should move Nayru's Love to Down-B and rework Light Arrow as a regular Neutral-B special. Ganondorf should just have a new option for Warlock Punch to be "tapped" for a weak, projectile-reflecting variant. Though if we're going by fun, I'd really want Ganondorf to lose his sword, honestly.

I think it’s kind of an overstatement to say the new BotW Link “alienated people,” but you actually do have good ideas for moves. I think the developers simply focused more attention elsewhere to make any changes to them in Ultimate, especially because they got new models and all.

Zelda is excellently represented in everything except for fighters in my opinion since it gets a lot of items (Cuccoo, Gust Bellows, Fairy Bottle) great stages (Skyloft, Great Plateau Tower, Great Bay) a Boss in Ganon, lots of spirits and a decent selection of music tracks

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Final Fantasy pretty much has the worst representation in Smash Bros., simply because all that we got are Cloud, Midgar, and two original BGM tracks; all of which came entirely from Final Fantasy VII.

There aren't even any Final Fantasy spirits, except for Cloud's fighter spirit, but even then, it simply reuses his artwork from Ultimate.

But the biggest sense of irony is knowing that Geno, Mallow, and the Dragon Quest series, all received a greater degree of representation, despite all of those contents being affiliated or owned by Square Enix.

 

[Quillion]

I think it’s kind of an overstatement to say the new BotW Link “alienated people,”

Yeah, maybe it was an overstatement, but I certainly feel alienated by the new Link just as I felt with how Bowser was changed in Smash 4. And even then, there is at least a few people who would like the old Link to be represented as an echo, purely because of the moveset differences.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

Final Fantasy pretty much has the worst representation in Smash Bros., simply because all that we got are Cloud, Midgar, and two original BGM tracks; all of which came entirely from Final Fantasy VII.

There aren't even any Final Fantasy spirits, except for Cloud's fighter spirit, but even then, it simply reuses his artwork from Ultimate.

But the biggest sense of irony is knowing that Geno, Mallow, and the Dragon Quest series, all received a greater degree of representation, despite all of those contents being affiliated or owned by Square Enix.

I still say that it was a mistake to choose Cloud over... well, anyone from Final Fantasy 1-6, Seiken Densetsu/World of Mana, or a freaking Chocobo!

 

[rlwrgh]

Arms maybe? Only has an assist trophy so far.

 

[Quillion]

Arms maybe? Only has an assist trophy so far.

That's about to change in case you didn't watch the Direct mini.

 

[Lenidem]

That's about to change in case you didn't watch the Direct mini.

I think it was a joke.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I think Kirby is well represented to be honest and has continually gotten lots of content, just not focused on the newer era. I think it's a mistake to think that any franchise will have "perfect" or even "ideal" representation when Smash has to juggle so much content though. Kirby managed to pick up a new boss, a World of Light segment dedicated to Kirby, new songs, tons of Spirits, got back literally its entire stage list (Metroid, Star Fox, and Donkey Kong did not manage this), and has always managed to have a ton of items including a new assist trophy. The total amount of content Kirby has was just a net increase with cool new additions, and Kirby also has the special mechanic of having to emulate every single fighter they add so Kirby is literally always getting more and more new content that requires a ton of work. It's not perfect because it doesn't represent the new era pretty much at all besides some little things, but the issue with Kirby isn't being "underepresented", it's just not the representation that you as a fan personally would prefer.

 

[Quillion]

I think Kirby is well represented to be honest and has continually gotten lots of content, just not focused on the newer era. I think it's a mistake to think that any franchise will have "perfect" or even "ideal" representation when Smash has to juggle so much content though. Kirby managed to pick up a new boss, a World of Light segment dedicated to Kirby, new songs, tons of Spirits, got back literally its entire stage list (Metroid, Star Fox, and Donkey Kong did not manage this), and has always managed to have a ton of items including a new assist trophy. The total amount of content Kirby has was just a net increase with cool new additions, and Kirby also has the special mechanic of having to emulate every single fighter they add so Kirby is literally always getting more and more new content that requires a ton of work. It's not perfect because it doesn't represent the new era pretty much at all besides some little things, but the issue with Kirby isn't being "underepresented", it's just not the representation that you as a fan personally would prefer.

People aren't saying its "quantity" of representation is bad, people are saying that its "quality" of representation is bad. Fans are claiming that Kirby in Smash is missing vital facets of its representation as opposed to having "not enough" representation.

I personally don't agree since modern Kirby isn't doing anything particularly different from classic Kirby, but this is how it is.

 

[ivanlerma]

People aren't saying its "quantity" of representation is bad, people are saying that its "quality" of representation is bad. Fans are claiming that Kirby in Smash is missing vital facets of its representation as opposed to having "not enough" representation.

I personally don't agree since modern Kirby isn't doing anything particularly different from classic Kirby, but this is how it is.

New Enemies, New Characters, New Music is what people would be thinking.

 

[OnyanRings]

Final Fantasy should probably focus on getting some supplementary content before people start begging for another fighter.

For sure, i always thought Tifa (Brawler) and Barret (Gunner) Mii outfits would be very fitting.

Oh and yeah, more music track, that'd be neat too.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

People aren't saying its "quantity" of representation is bad, people are saying that its "quality" of representation is bad. Fans are claiming that Kirby in Smash is missing vital facets of its representation as opposed to having "not enough" representation.

I personally don't agree since modern Kirby isn't doing anything particularly different from classic Kirby, but this is how it is.

It's not even quality that's the issue though either. The Marx boss fight is probably the best boss fight in the entire game, the Remixes Kirby keeps getting are phenomenal, and I genuinely think the Kirby stages are wonderful (The Great Cave Offensive is unique and fun from a "It changes the way you play perspective"... but I'm weird and love those types of stages). It's just the prioritization of a different section of Kirby content over newer content, and for different people, that's either a negative or a positive.

I honestly think Zelda and Kirby have some of the better representation in Smash period outside of Mario and Pokemon, it's just the characters that people seem to have issues with which are varying degrees of fair. I have no issue with including Bandanna Dee and some Kirby content (I mean, it's a little boring to me at this point, but I know people want it and Bandanna Dee would probably be fun), but like, your talking about turning Kirby representation from great to like outstanding at that point.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

It's not even quality that's the issue though either. The Marx boss fight is probably the best boss fight in the entire game, the Remixes Kirby keeps getting are phenomenal, and I genuinely think the Kirby stages are wonderful (The Great Cave Offensive is unique and fun from a "It changes the way you play perspective"... but I'm weird and love those types of stages). It's just the prioritization of a different section of Kirby content over newer content, and for different people, that's either a negative or a positive.

I honestly think Zelda and Kirby have some of the better representation in Smash period outside of Mario and Pokemon, it's just the characters that people seem to have issues with which are varying degrees of fair. I have no issue with including Bandanna Dee and some Kirby content (I mean, it's a little boring to me at this point, but I know people want it and Bandanna Dee would probably be fun), but like, your talking about turning Kirby representation from great to like outstanding at that point.

You're not looking at the problem the way many Kirby fans are, though. To our eyes, the Kirby representation is not high quality. It may have plenty of content, but it's literally from the same pool of games with exactly two exceptions: spirits and 2/3 of the Final Smashes. Even with that in mind, spirits are not perfectly balanced, and while Final Smashes are still helpful, they are just extensions of the characters that use them, like Ganon is to Ganondorf.

And I disagree with the idea that the characters are all that matter here. The three fighters and boss fight we have COULD be enough in a normal instance where the non-Sakurai games also have ample assists, items, and stage choices. But context is everything, and in this context we have TWO remixes from Brawl, one from 4 that doesn't exactly count, and nothing else. My favorite Kirby game is 64 and I don't see anything that even suggests that game is attached to the Kirby that's depicted in Smash. And considering that the general public tends to know Kirby from Smash, many people know Kirby in a skewed light that suggests Kirby's most important games are at least 17 years old and scarce.

This is especially a problem since the last mainline game (to most fans) introduced a mechanic that set in motion a large renaissance of Kirby newcomer potential in the fanbase. That was when it was extensively realized how intertwined the backbones of Kirby and Smash are. But Kirby is ironically being more faithful to itself than Smash tries to be with that franchise, despite everything else Smash does.

I do see why "underrepresentation" is being questioned (I'll even admit that Kirby isn't as bad off as franchises like Wario and PAC-MAN) but Kirby is still treated pretty bad for what it is.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

You're not looking at the problem the way many Kirby fans are, though. To our eyes, the Kirby representation is not high quality. It may have plenty of content, but it's literally from the same pool of games with exactly two exceptions: spirits and 2/3 of the Final Smashes. Even with that in mind, spirits are not perfectly balanced, and while Final Smashes are still helpful, they are just extensions of the characters that use them, like Ganon is to Ganondorf.

And I disagree with the idea that the characters are all that matter here. The three fighters and boss fight we have COULD be enough in a normal instance where the non-Sakurai games also have ample assists, items, and stage choices. But context is everything, and in this context we have TWO remixes from Brawl, one from 4 that doesn't exactly count, and nothing else. My favorite Kirby game is 64 and I don't see anything that even suggests that game is attached to the Kirby that's depicted in Smash. And considering that the general public tends to know Kirby from Smash, many people know Kirby in a skewed light that suggests Kirby's most important games are at least 17 years old and scarce.

This is especially a problem since the last mainline game (to most fans) introduced a mechanic that set in motion a large renaissance of Kirby newcomer potential in the fanbase. That was when it was extensively realized how intertwined the backbones of Kirby and Smash are. But Kirby is ironically being more faithful to itself than Smash tries to be with that franchise, despite everything else Smash does.

I do see why "underrepresentation" is being questioned (I'll even admit that Kirby isn't as bad off as franchises like Wario and PAC-MAN) but Kirby is still treated pretty bad for what it is.

But what is present is quite good content is my contention and there's specifically a lot of that what I think is very good and effective content at displaying the Spirit and overarching style of Kirby. The stages are among some of the most varied in Smash from a single series from stuff like Fountain of Dreams, Halberd, and Greens Greens all showing a lot of interesting standard designed stuff with more interesting experiments like Dream Land GB and The Great Cave Offensive fundamentally challenging pre-existing notions of what a stage can be. Compare that to say the Donkey Kong franchise where the entirety of its stage are 3 jungle levels and it's missing 2 stages from past titles. Like I said, I think Marx might fundamentally be the best boss battle in the entire game too.

And like, we cannot downplay how massive of an achievement making a copy ability for every single fighter in Kirby is. That's a massive workload that fundamentally retains a huge element of Kirby as a series and is honestly way more interesting to me as an ability that keeps getting work done than a lot of other content they could potentially add. Smash is the window to these different series, so it's about communicating those games and series to players while also giving nods to longtime fans.

My contention is that I absolutely disagree with your assessment of Kirby as a franchise. I think it is treated incredibly well and has some of the most love of any single series in Smash. The distribution of that content is not even by any means, however, and I know that's what people take issue with, but that's true of every single series in Smash. They could all technically be treated better and represent more of the games, but you're working with so many IPs across so many games and attempting to bring in entirely new content and franchises along the way that it just becomes very hard to bring "ideal representation" to any series. Even Fire Emblem suffers from a lack of items and its stage selection is actually kind of abysmal (Coliseum and Castle Siege are just generic ideas invented for Smash). But, I also think that for example Wario Ware has some of the absolute best representation in Smash as well because Wario Ware and Gamer manage to embody the home series so incredibly well with unique and fun stages that communicate WarioWare to the player better than adding Ashley or any number of other characters to Smash.

There's just a ton of really good Kirby content that communicates a lot of the diverse content that Kirby itself as a series has to offer in Smash. You just don't agree with the focus of that content, which is fine, but I think it's worth recognizing how well I think Kirby absolutely gets treated. The series continues to get lots of love from Sakurai and company in Smash.

 

[Perkilator]

But what is present is quite good content is my contention and there's specifically a lot of that what I think is very good and effective content at displaying the Spirit and overarching style of Kirby. The stages are among some of the most varied in Smash from a single series from stuff like Fountain of Dreams, Halberd, and Greens Greens all showing a lot of interesting standard designed stuff with more interesting experiments like Dream Land GB and The Great Cave Offensive fundamentally challenging pre-existing notions of what a stage can be. Compare that to say the Donkey Kong franchise where the entirety of its stage are 3 jungle levels and it's missing 2 stages from past titles. Like I said, I think Marx might fundamentally be the best boss battle in the entire game too.

And like, we cannot downplay how massive of an achievement making a copy ability for every single fighter in Kirby is. That's a massive workload that fundamentally retains a huge element of Kirby as a series and is honestly way more interesting to me as an ability that keeps getting work done than a lot of other content they could potentially add. Smash is the window to these different series, so it's about communicating those games and series to players while also giving nods to longtime fans.

My contention is that I absolutely disagree with your assessment of Kirby as a franchise. I think it is treated incredibly well and has some of the most love of any single series in Smash. The distribution of that content is not even by any means, however, and I know that's what people take issue with, but that's true of every single series in Smash. They could all technically be treated better and represent more of the games, but you're working with so many IPs across so many games and attempting to bring in entirely new content and franchises along the way that it just becomes very hard to bring "ideal representation" to any series. Even Fire Emblem suffers from a lack of items and its stage selection is actually kind of abysmal (Coliseum and Castle Siege are just generic ideas invented for Smash). But, I also think that for example Wario Ware has some of the absolute best representation in Smash as well because Wario Ware and Gamer manage to embody the home series so incredibly well with unique and fun stages that communicate WarioWare to the player better than adding Ashley or any number of other characters to Smash.

There's just a ton of really good Kirby content that communicates a lot of the diverse content that Kirby itself as a series has to offer in Smash. You just don't agree with the focus of that content, which is fine, but I think it's worth recognizing how well I think Kirby absolutely gets treated. The series continues to get lots of love from Sakurai and company in Smash.

Okay, here’s how I see this:

I agree with EricTheGamerman that what we do have from Kirby is fantastic stuff and at least makes up for the lack of diversity. However, I also agree with Among Waddle Dees that the majority of Kirby content being represented by Sakurai’s work is the problem in the big picture.

 

[Quillion]

Okay, here’s how I see this:

I agree with EricTheGamerman that what we do have from Kirby is fantastic stuff and at least makes up for the lack of diversity. However, I also agree with Among Waddle Dees that the majority of Kirby content being represented by Sakurai’s work is the problem in the big picture.

Maybe it's because everything Sakurai has done for the Kirby series is far more innovative and unique than anything modern Kirby can hope to be half as.

It's a GOOD thing that Smash focuses on Sakurai Kirby. There is, I assure you, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that modern Kirby does uniquely from Sakurai Kirby. The newer abilities are just copies of earlier abilities, and the stages are just the same bright and colorful level tropes that Sakurai Kirby did.

 

[Perkilator]

Maybe it's because everything Sakurai has done for the Kirby series is far more innovative and unique than anything modern Kirby can hope to be half as.

It's a GOOD thing that Smash focuses on Sakurai Kirby. There is, I assure you, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that modern Kirby does uniquely from Sakurai Kirby. The newer abilities are just copies of earlier abilities, and the stages are just the same bright and colorful level tropes that Sakurai Kirby did.

Another Dimension: A strange place within the dimensional fabric that houses the Sphere Doomers, and where Magalor turns completely insane and takes on an unrecognizable form.

Royal Road: A castle in the sky themed after jewels and flowers with gears in the background, ruled by a queen bee who takes on the form of a flower herself and attack with its thorns.

Access Ark: A giant spaceship run a robotic corporation that terraforms Popstar beyond recognition (turning trees into light bulbs, for example) and had several laboratories and a virtual labyrinth in it.

And that’s just to name a few of the modern games, with Planet Robobot having the most setting variety in the series (a desert with blenders as power generators, a city based entirely around music, etc.).

 

[Quillion]

Another Dimension, Royal Road, Access Ark, Jambastion, just to name a few.

Not iconic, not iconic, not iconic, and not iconic.

All of those potential stages run into the same problem that potential non-jungle stages in Donkey Kong do: they're just not icons of the series.

You don't have to like it; I don't, as I wish there were more out-there stages, but that's how it is.

 

[Yarael-BJ-Poof]

Xenoblade. There are three games in the series and only one gets proper representation, so in my opinion we need Elma and Rex to join Shulk.

Although at this point I'm holding out for a Xenoblade X port, that would almost solidify Elma's chances.

 

[scoobymcsnack]

Not iconic, not iconic, not iconic, and not iconic.

All of those potential stages run into the same problem that potential non-jungle stages in Donkey Kong do: they're just not icons of the series.

You don't have to like it; I don't, as I wish there were more out-there stages, but that's how it is.

I don't think stages need to be equally iconic to a series in order to be stage.
Sure, those Kirby stages might not be as iconic as Dreamland to the average person, but if they make for cool stages idk why they couldn't become one.

Sakurai's whole "it doesn't matter how iconic a character is but how fun they are to play" would apply to stages as well, Idk why it wouldn't.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

Maybe it's because everything Sakurai has done for the Kirby series is far more innovative and unique than anything modern Kirby can hope to be half as.

It's a GOOD thing that Smash focuses on Sakurai Kirby. There is, I assure you, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that modern Kirby does uniquely from Sakurai Kirby. The newer abilities are just copies of earlier abilities, and the stages are just the same bright and colorful level tropes that Sakurai Kirby did.

...where did that come from?? That wasn't even the focus of that argument!

What are you trying to prove with this statement? Kirby's quality and innovation has NOTHING to do with how its treated in Smash. If it did, games like NSMB2 would be going through the same treatment. It's not even modern Kirby exclusively that's getting ignored; basically any non-Sakurai game has little to nothing for itself in Smash. Do they not count because Sakurai didn't make them? I hate to be blunt, but IMO that's a pretty shallow and ineffective means of treating the series, especially for a crossover franchise that tries to promote itself for fanservice.

 

[Quillion]

...where did that come from?? That wasn't even the focus of that argument!

What are you trying to prove with this statement? Kirby's quality and innovation has NOTHING to do with how its treated in Smash. If it did, games like NSMB2 would be going through the same treatment. It's not even modern Kirby exclusively that's getting ignored; basically any non-Sakurai game has little to nothing for itself in Smash. Do they not count because Sakurai didn't make them? I hate to be blunt, but IMO that's a pretty shallow and ineffective means of treating the series, especially for a crossover franchise that tries to promote itself for fanservice.

Well maybe it's the entire reason Sakurai Kirby games are focused on in Smash. Like it or not, modern Kirby isn't exactly winning any awards for being groundbreaking even for the Kirby franchise alone. They're way too focused on riding the coattails of what came before.

The only potential stages that would be viable from modern Kirby would be Cookie Country, Fine Fields, Patched Plains, and Green Gardens, and guess what, they're all clones of Green Greens.

The stages that Perkilator listed unfortunately run into what I like to call the "Bowser's Castle problem." Now, a lot of people want Bowser's Castle; it's universally considered an icon of the series as it is the final boss location in nearly every Mario game. Maybe saying they weren't iconic was wrong on my part, they're actually just not emblematic of the series.

Bowser's Castle has never gotten a stage (at least not a standalone iteration) in any Smash game because it's not emblematic of the series' bright and colorful nature. Donkey Kong has never gotten a non-jungle stage because as diverse as the stage settings are, they're just not emblematic of DK's home: the jungle. And unfortunately, when anyone suggests a stage for Kirby, it's always one of the darker ones, which again isn't emblematic of how bright and colorful the Kirby series is.

You may mention the Halberd as a dark Kirby stage, but as with Sheik and other Zelda one-shots, I think Sakurai rightfully saw the Halberd in Brawl as a mistake, which just discouraged less emblematic stages from ever being put in Smash again.

 

[crazybenjamin]

Bowser's Castle has never gotten a stage (at least not a standalone iteration) in any Smash game because it's not emblematic of the series' bright and colorful nature.

Huh...I never really thought about it that way.

Still, I feel like Bowser's Castle is the one case where they can make an exception. After all, even casuals are familiar with the location, since it turns up in every Mario Kart.