What Are Your Unpopular Gaming Opinions? (Ver. 2)

[Perkilator]

No matter how god awful a game is, if there's something to genuinely like about it, I think it deserves to live on in some form.

 

[Oracle Link]

Nintendo didnt burn down ten orphanages and kicks puppies!
They also arent satan himself!

Byking (makers of My hero ones justice and jujutsu kaisen cursed clash) is not an "untalented" Developer im pretty sure they just werent given enough budget and time for cursed clash!

 

[Quillion]

Nintendo didnt burn down ten orphanages and kicks puppies!
They also arent satan himself!

They still need to be called out for wrongdoing just so they know when to course-correct though. Just like any other company.

Also just like any other creator, overly passionate fans such as you need to be called out for slavish devotion to them.

 

[FazDude]

They still need to be called out for wrongdoing just so they know when to course-correct though. Just like any other company.

Also just like any other creator, overly passionate fans such as you need to be called out for slavish devotion to them.

100% agreed. Nintendo isn't the worst gaming company out there, even in the realm of treating fans like garbage, but they still need to be held accountable for things that cross the line. It's possible to enjoy something a company makes while critiquing their executive choices.

plus we all know the EA execs are the puppy-kickers

 

[Oracle Link]

They still need to be called out for wrongdoing just so they know when to course-correct though. Just like any other company.

Also just like any other creator, overly passionate fans such as you need to be called out for slavish devotion to them.

Slavish devotion? Pah i mean i love nintendo games but i still disagree with some things they do!
Its just they arent particulary worse than other big companies! For example the oh so beloved sega (while supporting fangames) Has/ Had their own issues!
The Reason why i understand some of nintendos behaviour is cause i was actually scared of losing my copyright that is one of the worst feelings ever!
And if youre a company who despratly needs it no wonder you stamp down on some fan projects!
Speaking on SLAVISH when did you buy nintendo switch online? Ibought it after the damage was already done and it sold a LOT!
When did you (people who bought mario kart 8 on wiiu) buy Mario kart 8 deluxe? I bought this game after i was sure that thanks to those crazy sales we wont get 9 on switch!
When did you buy the fighters pass? I bought it after like the third or fourth fighter!
When i dislike somthing or am on edge i wait or straight up dont buy it!
Guess how many pokemon games on switch i own? Your Correct 0 i think they look bad so i didnt support them!

And weve reached a point were i dont feel bad when a fangame gets taken down because EVERYONE knows that will happen especially if big newssites gloat about it!

For example remember the people crying about AM2R nintendo literally remade metroid 2 themselves a couple of years later so they had the right to stamp it down!

And if youre that concerned about the work on those fangames going to waste change the graphics!

I get it you wanna make nintendo games! And believe me so do i! But if someone just made a videospiel-Man game without my input i would probably do something about that too!

And on the matter of Emulators (Not Roms those are actually taken down which is bad for the non nintendo roms i admit) Nintendo has shown that they usually make a bunch of old classics available expensive yes but available! And when an emulator can leak the newest Nintendo game (against payment) nintendo is (again) in their full right to take action!

Is NIntendo perfect?!
NO! But they genuinly did amazing things for gaming as a whole! Still Make great games and consoles! And are pretty decent when it comes to the monetazation of their games (except switch online)!
That already makes them better than most other game companys who either rush games, price them awfully or just dont have the giant history of inventing modern games!
And how much more can you really ask of a company to be regarded not awful, the worst or EVIL?

 

[Quillion]

I must admit, Nintendo does look a lot better at this present moment than a lot of the other publishers because their ability to restrain their project scale and budgets is clearly allowing them to make it through this "budget crisis" that all the bigger publishers are facing in the 9th generation. The fact that nearly every employee in Nintendo Japan stays on alone says a lot.

Even their unwillingness to invest more into better network infrastructure looks like it will work to their benefit since so many online games nowadays burn out so quickly despite heavy investment.
----

The Reason why i understand some of nintendos behaviour is cause i was actually scared of losing my copyright that is one of the worst feelings ever!

That does put a lot of things into perspective admittedly. Still...

1. The copyright system in its current state sucks in itself.
2. While the copyright system allowing corporate abuse is a problem, Nintendo bears a lot of responsibility for abusing it themselves.

Fixing the whole system is another discussion though.
----
Final side note:

Speaking on SLAVISH when did you buy nintendo switch online?

Never did, never will. Thankfully they don't lock the online store behind a sub.

When did you (people who bought mario kart 8 on wiiu) buy Mario kart 8 deluxe?

Never bought MK8 on Wii U. So at least I was free to buy it as a new player on Switch.

When did you buy the fighters pass? I bought it after like the third or fourth fighter!

Come to think of it, I never actually bought it. My brother did, and I mainly just played on his account.

Guess how many pokemon games on switch i own? Your Correct 0 i think they look bad so i didnt support them!

I only bought Legends Arceus admittedly. Still, I more-or-less still gave it to my brother too since I find I can't really deal with RPG numbers anymore.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

And weve reached a point were i dont feel bad when a fangame gets taken down because EVERYONE knows that will happen especially if big newssites gloat about it!

For example remember the people crying about AM2R nintendo literally remade metroid 2 themselves a couple of years later so they had the right to stamp it down!

And if youre that concerned about the work on those fangames going to waste change the graphics!

I get it you wanna make nintendo games! And believe me so do i! But if someone just made a videospiel-Man game without my input i would probably do something about that too!

If you're concerned about the prospect of people's creations being used without their permission, you should take that out with Nintendo itself, or really capitalism/corporate hierarchy as a whole - Nintendo is not a person, and it didn't create Mario, Kirby, Zelda, Pokemon, e.t.c., yet it still takes the credit for these titles as "Nintendo Games", "Nintendo Characters", e.t.c., and hoardes the copyrights should a creator leave - and, while they've generally had a good track record with keeping creators on board, they have certainly bit at creators who have left before.

Shouzou Kaga - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Oracle Link]

to get back on topic i think my love for a certain rock spitting enemy is unpopular:

Even tho The Top down Octoroks Are sooooo Adorable! And i mean all of them even the Modern and Phantom Hourglass/Spirit tracks ones!

Also the meme Exagerated this just a bit! so dont take it personally!

 

[Quillion]

Oracle Link : We get it; you like 2D Octoroks. It's fine to express your love of it.

But do you need to do so repeatedly?

 

[Oracle Link]

Oracle Link : We get it; you like 2D Octoroks. It's fine to express your love of it.

But do you need to do so repeatedly?

I mean i did not mention them for a couple of months to give you a break!
(Also geno fans talk about geno a lot too!)

Also also my default setting is most annoying person in the multiverse!

 

[Lenidem]

I mean i did not mention them for a couple of months to give you a break!
(Also geno fans talk about geno a lot too!)

Also also my default setting is most annoying person in the multiverse!

I mean no offense, but you really seem obsessed by the octorok. I don't remember the last time I read someone talking about Geno, while you keep bringing your favorite character over and over again, at least in most of the topics I follow. It's not that big of a deal, but it gets tiring.

 

[Quillion]

I've really grown to hate the whole linearity vs. openness/exploration debate in itself. I no longer fully dislike linearity, nor do I dislike open world, I hate the debate itself based on the idea that one is inherently better than the other.

The whole debate makes it seem like the two are diametrically opposed ideas that undermine one another, completely ignoring the fact that it's possible to have linear games with heavy exploration like the mainline Xenoblade games, or even exploration-oriented games that nonetheless know when to put you in a corridor of hazards like Mario Odyssey or even the Zelda Wild duology.

There really needs to be a paradigm shift in how we talk about linearity and openness from treating them as two extremes of a binary spectrum to being two ideas that can come together and make each other better through harmonious contrast and tempering each other's inherent negative consequences.

 

[fogbadge]

i think we should preserve bad games as well as the beloved ones. not just for what fans these games have but i think it's important to have examples of what not to do

 

[Rizen]

Princess Peach: Showtime isn't as bad as I thought it would be based on the demo but still seems like it would only appeal to kids. I feel the game would be better justified at a $40 price tag. Nintendo tends to overcharge for their games. I've also said Link's Awakening remake should not have been full price either.

 

[Quillion]

but still seems like it would only appeal to kids.

And that's a problem why?

Also, I've noticed that you're always badmouthing Nintendo for being "outdated", but it's always superficial **** like graphics, story and voice acting that drive up costs for relatively little benefit to the core game itself.

Now look where all these more "modern" game developers have ended up financially: layoffs galore, can't finish games, and relying on MTX just to get by. As much as Nintendo's decisions may sometimes suck for players, they'll definitely survive this crisis.

 

[Quillion]

Previous post aside, I want to say this:

It's perfectly okay to be a graphics *****.

If you don't want to buy a game because you don't think the graphics are up to snuff, all power to you. I actually completely understand that certain hipster-like groups (especially Nintendo fans) devalue how important graphics are to the video game medium (the "video" part of the name is there for a reason people).

That said, people who treat graphics as the end-all be-all of whether a game is worth a certain amount of money or are outdated are idiots.

 

[Rizen]

And that's a problem why?

Also, I've noticed that you're always badmouthing Nintendo for being "outdated", but it's always superficial **** like graphics, story and voice acting that drive up costs for relatively little benefit to the core game itself.

Now look where all these more "modern" game developers have ended up financially: layoffs galore, can't finish games, and relying on MTX just to get by. As much as Nintendo's decisions may sometimes suck for players, they'll definitely survive this crisis.

A game being made exclusively for kids is not necessarily a bad thing but it does limit the market a lot. Nintendo makes a lot of games that are kid appropriate but still fun for adults like Mario Odyssey. I'm just saying it's kind of a shame Peach's first solo game in a long time wasn't made with sliding difficulty settings to make it appeal to order audiences too.

I'm also sticking with the opinion that Nintendo has archaic policies and needs to get into the 21st century. Peach showtime still uses written dialog without actual voice lines for most of the text. This kind of thing was fine for the N64 era when technology sucked but it's 2024 ffs; triple A games should be fully voice acted at this point. I was just playing assassin's creed odyssey and thinking how much effort went into all the fully voice acted different dialog options and conversations. It makes the world feel more like a real place and less like a video game. They make a huge difference. Besides, Nintendo has the funds.

 

[Quillion]

A game being made exclusively for kids is not necessarily a bad thing but it does limit the market a lot. Nintendo makes a lot of games that are kid appropriate but still fun for adults like Mario Odyssey. I'm just saying it's kind of a shame Peach's first solo game in a long time wasn't made with sliding difficulty settings to make it appeal to order audiences too.

Eh, kids these days need better entertainment anyway. We need more Blueys and Peach Showtimes and less of the Peppa Pigs and Pinkfongs. There's room for many audiences.

I'm also sticking with the opinion that Nintendo has archaic policies and needs to get into the 21st century. Peach showtime still uses written dialog without actual voice lines for most of the text. This kind of thing was fine for the N64 era when technology sucked but it's 2024 ffs; triple A games should be fully voice acted at this point. I was just playing assassin's creed odyssey and thinking how much effort went into all the fully voice acted different dialog options and conversations. It makes the world feel more like a real place and less like a video game. They make a huge difference. Besides, Nintendo has the funds.

You know, I think there's definitely a point where at least Peach Showtime's CGI cutscenes feel really awkward without voice acting. I think that context at least needs real VA.

But your reasoning for it? No.

Peach Showtime is clearly not a AAA game. And it doesn't need to be one either; I wish companies across the board would invest more in mid-level games rather than investing into all AAA all the time (and eventually paying the price for the latter, but we'll get to that).

Video games need to always feel real and immersive? God forbid a book doesn't feel like a book nor a movie or tv show doesn't feel like a movie or tv show. If you really want top-level immersion, go play a VR game. Again, it's completely alright for a game to be video game-y sometimes.

Nintendo has the funds? Big companies as a whole had the funds to sustain the AAA industry. Keyword "had", now look where they're at: so many layoffs and even greater reliance on microtransactions just to keep a game running for a profit. And Ubisoft, the company behind the game you mentioned? Had a wave of layoffs a few days ago. Nintendo themselves are even surpassed by MS and Sony by market cap; both MS and Sony suffered from big layoffs. THIS is what happens when companies always think "they have the funds".

What are you even expecting here? You're holding every game to narrow AAA standards, when clearly there can be many other games made with many different levels of standards.

 

[Rizen]

Eh, kids these days need better entertainment anyway. We need more Blueys and Peach Showtimes and less of the Peppa Pigs and Pinkfongs. There's room for many audiences.



You know, I think there's definitely a point where at least Peach Showtime's CGI cutscenes feel really awkward without voice acting. I think that context at least needs real VA.

But your reasoning for it? No.

Peach Showtime is clearly not a AAA game. And it doesn't need to be one either; I wish companies across the board would invest more in mid-level games rather than investing into all AAA all the time (and eventually paying the price for the latter, but we'll get to that).

Video games need to always feel real and immersive? God forbid a book doesn't feel like a book nor a movie or tv show doesn't feel like a movie or tv show. If you really want top-level immersion, go play a VR game. Again, it's completely alright for a game to be video game-y sometimes.

Nintendo has the funds? Big companies as a whole had the funds to sustain the AAA industry. Keyword "had", now look where they're at: so many layoffs and even greater reliance on microtransactions just to keep a game running for a profit. And Ubisoft, the company behind the game you mentioned? Had a wave of layoffs a few days ago. Nintendo themselves are even surpassed by MS and Sony by market cap; both MS and Sony suffered from big layoffs. THIS is what happens when companies always think "they have the funds".

What are you even expecting here? You're holding every game to narrow AAA standards, when clearly there can be many other games made with many different levels of standards.

Peach showtime is a triple A game featuring one of Nintendo's main characters. There's no excuse for the cut corner decisions Nintendo makes. IDK why you're so adamant on defending it. Just the other day you were calling people out for their "slavish devotion to Nintendo" and now you're doing the same thing you criticized other people for doing.

The problem is Nintendo has a "good enough" attitude. They make great games but other companies have surpassed them due to this. Nintendo says Paper Mario only featuring established Mario characters is good enough. God forbid we should get a creative world with new races like in Thousand Year Door. Nintendo says grunts instead of voice acting is good enough. Having Ganon and the same basic plot over and over in Zelda games is good enough. Having fun games without creative stories is good enough. Gameboy length games like Link's awakening for full price are good enough. Well not for me. People need to hold Nintendo to higher standards. This is why we get "good enough" games. Nintendo makes money. Other companies have surpassed Nintendo because they're willing to make games the best they can be.

 

[fogbadge]

Peach showtime is a triple A game featuring one of Nintendo's main characters. There's no excuse for the cut corner decisions Nintendo makes. IDK why you're so adamant on defending it. Just the other day you were calling people out for their "slavish devotion to Nintendo" and now you're doing the same thing you criticized other people for doing.

The problem is Nintendo has a "good enough" attitude. They make great games but other companies have surpassed them due to this. Nintendo says Paper Mario only featuring established Mario characters is good enough. God forbid we should get a creative world with new races like in Thousand Year Door. Nintendo says grunts instead of voice acting is good enough. Having Ganon and the same basic plot over and over in Zelda games is good enough. Having fun games without creative stories is good enough. Gameboy length games like Link's awakening for full price are good enough. Well not for me. People need to hold Nintendo to higher standards. This is why we get "good enough" games. Nintendo makes money. Other companies have surpassed Nintendo because they're willing to make games the best they can be.

holding games to high standards is one of the reasons the industry is in the problems it's in now. people spent so many gens going on about graphics and now so many companies waste their time of grandiose graphics that's only causing games to become more and more expensive. not having voice acting is hardly cutting corners. have you ever considered asking why we need voice acting? it hardly matters

also what you have to remember is that triple A is a fan made term to refer to the highest of the high. and while nintendo may count as it good feel does not

and quillon is no slavish nintendo fan

 

[Rizen]

and quillon is no slavish nintendo fan

His words, not mine. And graphics are not that hard to make look good. It's 2024 and people are still acting like it's the N64 era. Games should be held to high standards; developers have had over 30 years to get things right. I look at games like Pokemon Legends Arceus and think "how did this ever get to market? It looks awful (visually)".

 

[fogbadge]

His words, not mine. And graphics are not that hard to make look good. It's 2024 and people are still acting like it's the N64 era. Games should be held to high standards; developers have had over 30 years to get things right. I look at games like Pokemon Legends Arceus and think "how did this ever get to market? It looks awful (visually)".

I notice you go to the opposite extreme. You know there’s a middle ground between ultra realism and dated graphics?

 

[The SafeKeeper]

I look at games like Pokemon Legends Arceus and think "how did this ever get to market? It looks awful (visually)".

The video game graphics debate is a nuanced one to be sure. However, I'm not sure why particular franchises are given so much leeway by the fans. For example, you brought up Legends Arceus, and after doing some quick research, I found out that Pokémon is still the single most successful media franchise in human history (sitting around $90 billion). Granted, most of that is from licensed merchandise rather than the actual games, but it really highlights how much more could be poured into these titles if those pocketing all that dosh genuinely cared about quality.

 

[Quillion]

Peach showtime is a triple A game featuring one of Nintendo's main characters. There's no excuse for the cut corner decisions Nintendo makes. IDK why you're so adamant on defending it. Just the other day you were calling people out for their "slavish devotion to Nintendo" and now you're doing the same thing you criticized other people for doing.

This is the complete post you're talking about:

They still need to be called out for wrongdoing just so they know when to course-correct though. Just like any other company.

Also just like any other creator, overly passionate fans such as you need to be called out for slavish devotion to them.

I don't limit myself to calling out fans for their slavish devotion to Nintendo. EVERY creator and fan of that creator deserves it. That includes other AAA companies and you.

The problem is Nintendo has a "good enough" attitude. They make great games but other companies have surpassed them due to this. Nintendo says Paper Mario only featuring established Mario characters is good enough. God forbid we should get a creative world with new races like in Thousand Year Door.

That's more of an overcorrection due to Super Paper Mario being so far removed, literally, from the Mario universe, which I think is a valid concern. That being said, yes, they went WAAAYYY too far.

Nintendo says grunts instead of voice acting is good enough.

Given games like Xenoblade, Fire Emblem, and WarioWare Gold and Move It, you're wrong. It's more like they have an idea when the expense of VA is worth it or not.

Having Ganon and the same basic plot over and over in Zelda games is good enough. Having fun games without creative stories is good enough.

Look, I think the Zelda team could stand to get a guest writer to improve their stories. I do think BotW and TotK fell into certain traps that even the classic games did such as underdeveloping characters and some slow pacing issues, and I get that it ruined enjoyment of the games for many.

But still, not every game needs a masterpiece of writing for its story. Some genres like RPGs and Action Adventures can be better served by story, guess what, Nintendo supports stories in Xenoblade, Fire Emblem, and even Zelda despite its writing issues. Some genres like platformers and puzzle games aren't, and this is what you're focusing on. Again, they know when the expense of focusing on story is worth it.

Gameboy length games like Link's awakening for full price are good enough.

Again, industry wide problem.

Well not for me. People need to hold Nintendo to higher standards. This is why we get "good enough" games. Nintendo makes money. Other companies have surpassed Nintendo because they're willing to make games the best they can be.

And sacrificing the actual developers to do it, clearly. From the crunch of a few years back to the layoffs of now.

And graphics are not that hard to make look good. It's 2024 and people are still acting like it's the N64 era. Games should be held to high standards; developers have had over 30 years to get things right.

"Art isn't hard; clearly SIE's game artists just scribbled a bunch of pixels for the textures for the Spider-Man games and got it done within a day."

This is what you're saying.

 

[Oracle Link]

I dont know how unpopular this is but zelda Should NEVER be science fiction!
Space fanstasy (similar to starwars) could work... maybe! But giving link a gun and having him fight non monster aliens (yes the ones in mm were still monsters)
Is an absolutly bad idea! Even Mario galaxy still felt like Mario with alien goombas (that are octorok ripoffs tbh) and the like!

 

[Quillion]

AAA is such a dumb name for large-scale games, and I hope I'll never use that term consciously again (I probably will if I keep reading it in several posts continuously).
----
Speaking of large-scale games, I've seen some comment on how fewer large-scale games are coming out (Exhibit A, Exhibit B, Exhibit C).

I honestly think that's one of the better consequences of this "budget explosion" in large-scale games. Now we have more time to really enjoy these big games and let them sink in instead of these big publishers trying to gamble and fight for everyone's attention annually.

If the big (western) publishers will learn anything from this budget explosion and ensuing layoffs, I hope it will be to make those games a three-a-gen deal (maybe four being generous) and fill out the rest of that time with small or mid-scale games.

 

[Quillion]

Despite how annoying FNAF and Undertale fans can be at times, I really wish Undertale was able to define a "quirky anti-violence RPG" genre more than FNAF launched the "indie horror based on childhood" genre.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Despite how annoying FNAF and Undertale fans can be at times, I really wish Undertale was able to define a "quirky anti-violence RPG" genre more than FNAF launched the "indie horror based on childhood" genre.

Undertale is one of the biggest inspirations for the game I hope to make, and lately I've been toying with ideas for how enemies could be defeated through non-violent means! At least like, all of them except the big bad. It's still mostly just a concept in my head, but hey it's something!

After spending a while playing The Lion King for Sega Genesis, I've come to find a new appreciation for it! Like damn, I think I love it lol. It's infamously hard, but I feel like a lot of the difficulty comes in mechanics being under-explained and the grabboxes of things being small. It's really fun once you actually get the hang of things, and the combat as Adult Simba is so satisfying!

 

[Rizen]

After spending a while playing The Lion King for Sega Genesis, I've come to find a new appreciation for it! Like damn, I think I love it lol. It's infamously hard, but I feel like a lot of the difficulty comes in mechanics being under-explained and the grabboxes of things being small. It's really fun once you actually get the hang of things, and the combat as Adult Simba is so satisfying!

I think I had that as a kid. Was that the one with a ridiculously tight double jump off the ostrich in the "I can't wait to be king" level?

 

[StrangeKitten]

I think I had that as a kid. Was that the one with a ridiculously tight double jump off the ostrich in the "I can't wait to be king" level?

Yup, that's the one! After doing the ostrich part over and over, it's as simple as waiting for the last possible moment to jump, then quickly double jumping. I had the game as a kid as well and there's something so satisfying about finally beating it

 

[Champion of Hyrule]

I haven’t seen the sonic movies but I feel like both Idris Elba and Keanu Reeves aren’t good casting choices (as funny as they are in concept) because you sorta have to have a more youthful voice to play a Sonic character, having 50 year old who sound like 50 year olds playing Sonic characters just feels weird to me even though they’re supposed to be more serious (and Shadow is technically older).

To be clear tho this is just vibes based and I’m sure they did a good job. It’s not just about their age too because I think Ben Schwartz was perfect casting.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The more I learn about the 5th generation of console gaming the more I think it's become a bit underrated for what it pulled off and the more I think it's one of the most critical periods in gaming history to learn from. Technological trends in the industry tend to go on a predictable path and the evolution from one era to another is often very conventional. That era though is deeply fascinating because everyone is trying to figure out to perfect 2D and make the jump to 3D and it leads to such an interesting blend of differing attempts at pulling both off. It's easy to mock stuff like the Jaguar, 3DO or even some of the nascent 3D titles by the big three but given how there was no road map to making polygons really work or even understanding how movement in that space functioned, its genuinely impressive what they achieved.

That's not to say there weren't genuine lousy games and the judgement that many titles haven't aged well isn't inaccurate, just that the entire landscape of what the gaming future was to be was so up in the air in that era that it's not entirely fair to point at the less successful predictions/takes and label them as bad and nothing more. They are certainly something to be studied to understand how certain creative solutions to early 3D's problems worked or didn't work. Indeed, I say the failures of this time are the ones most worthy of being looked at because they came from earnest efforts by developers that happened to be wrong headed in some respect.

 

[Quillion]

The more I learn about the 5th generation of console gaming the more I think it's become a bit underrated for what it pulled off and the more I think it's one of the most critical periods in gaming history to learn from. Technological trends in the industry tend to go on a predictable path and the evolution from one era to another is often very conventional. That era though is deeply fascinating because everyone is trying to figure out to perfect 2D and make the jump to 3D and it leads to such an interesting blend of differing attempts at pulling both off. It's easy to mock stuff like the Jaguar, 3DO or even some of the nascent 3D titles by the big three but given how there was no road map to making polygons really work or even understanding how movement in that space functioned, its genuinely impressive what they achieved.

That's not to say there weren't genuine lousy games and the judgement that many titles haven't aged well isn't inaccurate, just that the entire landscape of what the gaming future was to be was so up in the air in that era that it's not entirely fair to point at the less successful predictions/takes and label them as bad and nothing more. They are certainly something to be studied to understand how certain creative solutions to early 3D's problems worked or didn't work. Indeed, I say the failures of this time are the ones most worthy of being looked at because they came from earnest efforts by developers that happened to be wrong headed in some respect.

Despite having lived through that era, I have that same attitude towards the 7th generation.

Sure, it wasn't quite as much of a gear shift as the 5th gen was to the previous gens, but the more I really look into the 7th generation, the more fascinating it gets how HD really upended game development.

The West as a whole was much better equipped for the rise of HD since they were doing a lot more active efforts to build around that resolution. Meanwhile, Japan, who dominated previous gens, floundered around with a lot of their games seeming outdated and/or trying fruitlessly to accommodate to "western" tastes (hello, Inafune-led Capcom).

And even then, limited HD resources on either side of the pond caused a proliferation of the "linear cinematic game". And while I personally dislike that form of game (I prefer more "atmospheric" games for linearity myself), it did help video game storytelling really grow and mature as an artform.

Most importantly, the 7th generation is what finally got console makers to finally standardize their consoles so that making games for them is as accessible and painless as possible (which even Nintendo themselves would do even if it was a gen and a half late). Clearly, trying to learn different bespoke architectures was a waste of time that could be better spent towards making the game itself, especially with HD, so the days of the completely different console architecture had to come to an end. This in turn paved the way for indie developers to reach the market alongside the internet itself.

Now sure, the 7th generation resulted in a lot of bad (with the 9th generation currently facing a reckoning towards many the trends it started). But if the 5th generation was a lawless "wild west" where everyone had to figure out what to do, the 7th generation was the "urbanization" where the modern framework for making and delivering games came to be.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

While I don't think preservation of any commercially-released work should have to be justified, I think shovelware preservation is especially important because those are the historical context of many consoles, especially Nintendo. The average Wii experience was not Mario Galaxy and Rhythm Heaven, it was Ninjabread Man and Looney Tunes: Acme Arsenal - this doesn't mean everyone needs to be making passionate video essays about said games, but if someone 10 years from now wants to immerse themselves in the historical context of the Wii, they need to have these games accessible, and not just the greatest hits, to get the full picture - not in a condescending, backhanded "oh, that'll make you appreciate Twilight Princess" way, but in a "this is how most Wii players played Wii" way. The same goes for almost all of Nintendo and Sega's consoles with maybe the exception of the N64, the earlier 2 PlayStations, and a lesser extent for every other console

Note that the individual games named were simply used to represent the wider concept of shovelware, I am not suggesting that LTAA and NBM sold better than SMG or RHF, as much as just that more people played shovelware as a totality than the "timeless first parties" as a totality.

The recent Garry's Mod situation has made me realise that Steam Workshop kinda sucks as a system. It's more convenient, yes, but giving the game's publisher responsibility over moderating mods makes DMCAs significantly more likely as the workshop could be considered part of the game or its marketing in a sense - plus, legal woes aside, troubleshooting is a lot harder if you're not adding the mods directly yourself and don't know where they go, (I've modded a lot of games, and Rivals is easily the single one I've had the most issues with, particularly when it comes to figuring out which installs are causing problems) and Workshop makes it really hard to go through mods and uninstall them.

In fact, I'd say mod sites as a whole are a very troubling system when it comes to DMCAs compared to self-hosting, even if they make discoverability much easier. Content on a mod site like Gamebanana can be collectively wiped easily, self-hosting creates an impossible whack-a-mole game.

 

[fogbadge]

The recent Garry's Mod situation has made me realise that Steam Workshop kinda sucks as a system. It's more convenient, yes, but giving the game's publisher responsibility over moderating mods makes DMCAs significantly more likely as the workshop could be considered part of the game or its marketing in a sense - plus, legal woes aside, troubleshooting is a lot harder if you're not adding the mods directly yourself and don't know where they go, (I've modded a lot of games, and Rivals is easily the single one I've had the most issues with, particularly when it comes to figuring out which installs are causing problems) and Workshop makes it really hard to go through mods and uninstall them.

In fact, I'd say mod sites as a whole are a very troubling system when it comes to DMCAs compared to self-hosting, even if they make discoverability much easier. Content on a mod site like Gamebanana can be collectively wiped easily, self-hosting creates an impossible whack-a-mole game.

no double posting unless 24 hours have passed

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

no double posting unless 24 hours have passed

In my timezone, it says my last post was yesterday.

 

[fogbadge]

In my timezone, it says my last post was yesterday.

still wasn’t 24 hours

 

[Quillion]

Wario Wario Wario : Honestly, I think that's one reason we need a good and fair system for mod monetization.

Not only could it be a good career or side hustle for the mod creators themselves, so could vetting mods for offensive or copyrighted content for either the site or the base game's publisher.

It needs to be compounded with simple copyright clarification that protects not-for-profit use short of full remakes, but still.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Wario Wario Wario : Honestly, I think that's one reason we need a good and fair system for mod monetization.

Not only could it be a good career or side hustle for the mod creators themselves, so could vetting mods for offensive or copyrighted content for either the site or the base game's publisher.

It needs to be compounded with simple copyright clarification that protects not-for-profit use short of full remakes, but still.

That is the opposite of what I'm arguing for.

 

[Quillion]

That is the opposite of what I'm arguing for.

Thing is, without the resources to fight back against copyright abusers, mod hosting is just doomed no matter how you slice it.

I've heard tell that a lot of big companies have "copyright infringement" hunters who regularly scour the search engines for potential infringements. And now with even more flawed algorithms that handle that, the amount of crossfire victims goes up.