We need Wavedashing, we must take action to assure it

[Dan-E]

I know how you feel, M2k (to a point, i didn't gain fame from my skills). But please realize, we play Marth. WaveDash really unbalances Marth. Nearly everyone is unbalanced and Marth shoots up in tier more because of his reach, disjointed hitbox, speed + long/smooth WaveDash. I love it but it's really unfair for some of my friends who are biased towards...well you should know...Mewtwo or Pikachu. I don't say wavedash has to be out, but Sakurai really wants to balance the game. He doesn't want crappy low tiers and top tier to be so far apart.

There's two ways to do this:
1) with wavedash in mind. That means wavedash will be a big factor. If Marth were to come back and had wavedash it'll probably be like Link's: short and pointless since Marth already has other advantages on his belt (speed, hitbox, range). Trust me, if wavedashing was in, Ike would have a long one to balance it out (as contradictory it sounds). Wavedashing can make speedy characters even speedier and very little to slow characters (Ganondorf, Link, Bowser) The problem is, not everyone will use wavedash and it'll make characters highly unbalanced in terms of casual play if he only caters to us "purists"
2) without wavedash. this is only way to balance both casual and tourney purists. Realize melee is pretty okay balanced at a casual level but when you put wavedash in the equation it really makes Good characters top-tier (Marth, Fox, Falco).

I understand your rant, since you've excelled at this. WaveDashing is an integral part of Marth play. But look at Link. He doesn't really need wavedashing to be competitive (Aniki is the example). Sakurai can follow that example for everyone and make sure everyone has correct advancing options and retreating.

Brawl is not Melee - Wavedash
Brawl is Melee - Wavedash + Necessary tweaking.

Those said tweaks will make it balanced.

yeah wavedashing really unbalances the game. I hate how when I'm Fox and my opponent is Mewtwo and he uses his superior wavedashing to defeat me. oh wait that never happens. saying wavedashing is unbalanced and needs to be taken out is so stupid. SSB64 was way more unbalanced than melee was and it didn't have wavedashing.

 

[ShortFuse]

yeah wavedashing really unbalances the game. I hate how when I'm Fox and my opponent is Mewtwo and he uses his superior wavedashing to defeat me. oh wait that never happens. saying wavedashing is unbalanced and needs to be taken out is so stupid. SSB64 was way more unbalanced than melee was and it didn't have wavedashing.

it IS unbalanced when coupled with speed (fox/falco) or range (marth). it doesn't have to be long. I said slow characters should have long wavedashes (ike) but marth should have a short one

 

[creep]

God **** you guys are dumb. It's not that M2K "can't handle it" as he would 4-stock you regardless.

I don't think anyone in this thread has said M2K was bad at melee..

 

[NES n00b]

I don't think anyone in this thread has said M2K was bad at melee..

But some said if you were "good" at smash, you wouldn't need to rely on blah blah blah. That is true but it isn't like he wouldn't adapt. lol

I don't like Smash 64. >_<

 

[.Yoshi]

Really, pros can get REALLY prepontious(**** this word)

(This goes for a post with a mew in his avatar, who said m2k had to been heared and do what he says (wow, now he is our president o_O) because he was a pro in MELEE -_-)

Exactly. Pros can be posers. Listen to them all saying the words "ink drop"...haha

 

[chkenparm]

Could you guys please knock it off. I'd love to read some actual threads about Brawl without having to sift through endless posts whining about WD. It's 1 technique out of hundreds of moves and techniques. The game will not stink if it's in or out. Get off your high horse and stop saying that an entire game will suck because of WD. You really can't say anything about how competitive the game will be until you play it. So chill out, stop bugging about every little aspect of the game and try to realize the world (even the smash world) will not end due to 1 thing being in or out of the game.

 

[Dan-E]

it IS unbalanced when coupled with speed (fox/falco) or range (marth). it doesn't have to be long. I said slow characters should have long wavedashes (ike) but marth should have a short one

With the removal of wavedashing would not come a balanced version of melee I'm sorry to say. Yes it affects the tiers. No it does not make them unbalanced. They were already unbalanced. Making a perfectly balanced game with variety on the level of melee is impossible.

 

[Vijin]

You guys just keep forgetting that it's a totally new game.
So wavedashing and L canceling is out. People are complaining about the removal of these techs and the game isn't even out yet. "Is wavedashing in? L canceling? What's the tier list?! Who's broken?! Does fox have infinite shine?!" How does any of this matter right now? Worry about it when the game actually comes out!
Don't worry about wavedashing and L-cancel. All the pro-players want is an in-depth game; the removal of some of these techs shouldn't scare anybody. There'll be new techs to figure out. New techs, new combos,new characters, new concepts. It's a new game guys.

You guys complaining about removing it sound just as noobish as the guys complaining about how cheap it is and how it should be taken out.

 

[Falling Whistness]

It's a new game. Adapt or perish.

If the game sucks, then go back to Melee. But somehow I doubt that will be the case.

 

[darkNES386]

I believe the concept of Wavelanding was still in right?

So here's what I've been thinking (maybe others have too, but I'm calling dibs lol). If the airdodge is affected by the character's current momentum, then why can we not put ourselves in to that momentum state to waveland?

For example, If I perform a short hop and immediately slam the direction input towards an angle that is more horizontal than downwards, while at the same time forcing the character to Fast Fall, wouldn't my momentum be down and to the horizontal direction I inputted? Thus my momentum air dodge SHOULD be towards the direction I am landing on the ground. This concept is grasped from Triangle Jumping, and though it may not be like a WD, the concept can still apply and may still be useful.

Granted, it sounds like a lot to do in a SH and may require precise timing, but hey, we play Smash Bros. competitively, we should be able to conquer anything technical lol.

Isn't that a wave-landing?

 

[creep]

With the removal of wavedashing would not come a balanced version of melee I'm sorry to say.

I'm also sorry to say that Brawl is not Melee.

 

[ShortFuse]

With the removal of wavedashing would not come a balanced version of melee I'm sorry to say. Yes it affects the tiers. No it does not make them unbalanced. They were already unbalanced. Making a perfectly balanced game with variety on the level of melee is impossible.

impossible with wavedash, yes. take it out and put l-cancel "automatic", add character tweaks and you won't have such a drastic differences in tiers. i'm a WD abuser, i'll miss it but i know it can make gameplay somewhat unfair.

i'm just repeating points now

 

[NES n00b]

impossible with wavedash, yes. take it out and put l-cancel "automatic" and you won't have such a drastic differences in tiers. i'm a WD abuser, i'll miss it but i know it can make gameplay somewhat unfair.

Not even close. Lower tiers than the top tiers use wavedash more.

Stats and character movesets break the game. . . . . . . . not universal techs.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Mostly I'm not frustrated about the removal of depth to the game; there will be many new adv. techs (although I somehow doubt that they can make up for all the depth lost with WD). It is simply that there is no point in removing WD; it pleases noone.

 

[ShortFuse]

Not even close. Lower tiers than the top tiers use wavedash more.

Stats and character movesets break the game. . . . . . . . not universal techs.

i know, i edited to add "character tweaks." fox is different as we've seen. Sakurai is TRYING to balance the characters out for Brawl. I'm was just saying why it's probably would be too hard if you take wavedashing into consideration because it'd break the balance in terms of casual play

 

[Vijin]

it pleases noone.

Just the people who want to blame their suckiness on something.

 

[Mew2King]

WTF when did I ask to have a more valid point because I play Melee well, all I'm saying is my stand on wavedashing as it is and that I think we should do something about it. I haven't read the brawl forums much to see if there was any other topics like these so I just made one myself out of anger, because I don't see how it could harm the game, or if it does the help will greatly outweigh the harm.

The copies sold would probably be about the same with or without it, but competition from years to come would greatly be appreciated if Nintendo would do that one extra feature for us. I'm not asking much, I'm just asking for one technique to be back into it.

And I play 64 pretty well and all I do is pick kirby and play gay using broken combos and strats that Isai taught me, I don't enjoy playing that way, but it's enough to compete well with Jerry and other guys. Jerry doesn't even think 64 is very deep, I've asked him himself.

Advanced techs can only help us. Why break something if it isn't broke. The good would still outweigh the bad.

Why don't we try doing something about it, there's still almost 4 months left until Brawl, that's plenty of time to fix one small change, we just need to convince them to do it.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Just the people who want to blame their suckiness on something.

And those are the people that blame their suckiness on anything and thus do not matter.

 

[YangKang]

[Flame Mode] Okay guys you seriously dont get it, ITS NOT A STUPID TECHNIQUE/GLITCH, WAVEDASH WAS 50% OF YOUR MOVEMENT seriously ... did you ever play competivly ( is that a word oO? ) marth,mario or fox or anyone who NEEDS wavedash to actually survive ? i dont think so all you guys saying "blah its just a technique get over it" im sure you are still at home trying to figure out how to move as fast as m2k with fox right? and its not that m2k is a pro in melee and sucks at brawl i can tell by the fact that he knows every freaking frame of every freakin move of his mains. when your able to cancel when not and **** a PRO has got MINDGAMES and no matter what game you play MINDGAMES always are in it and that what makes him already better than you guys >_<[/flame mode]

 

[BigRick]

There is probably new stuff out there waiting to be discovered by you M2K...

 

[BUM163]

ighttt this is bum's kinda long post. now i can agree wit m2k complaining about wavedashing? y u say? cuz it made that game wat it is 2day. real fun n it added stragety 2 the game n this is comin from a guy that doesn't use wavedashin that much n is known 2 whip *** wit dk. it allow u 2 move bak witout turnin ur bak on ur opponent n attack faster, but it still left u open. the thing is that if they do offically take out wavedash at first i felt like m2k. bother the fact that this game is gonna b a fighting version of mario party which would b wack. now when street fighter alpha came out people wasn't use 2 airblocking n counters, then they took it bak 2 old school wit street fighter 3 where their was no airblock, which people was like wtf did capcom do? eventually people pratice n found out new stuff like how 2 master parry, grabs, link combos n use frames. now this is how brawl will b, goin bak 2 old roots wit either prequel techiques or completely new ones they made up. people defend m2k yes 2 me i say hez the best in melee, though not the champ cuz that goes 2 ken, but hez the best right now in melee, don't think it would apply 2 him in brawl n that can b his reason y he's complaining n the same applies 2 me. i think i'm a great player in this game, but when this game comes out all my skills can b crap like in brawl, but i feel like m2k should suck it up n own cuz hez a smart player 2 begin wit. now if this game is 2 party like then we can nag n complain, but this is a demo n may not even b the real deal. plenty of games had demos n it sayz material subject 2 change, which alot of the times the material changes. most of the people that complain or did complained like myself is gonna go into brawl regardless n they will b sumthin cheap like alwayz, but 2 me theres alwayz a way around it. when people complain about fox or marth, i'm like i feel u, but if i can do it n i play a big smelly not 2 slow, but slow ape anyone can. i feel we should play the real game first b 4 anyone arguements go on. this game will sell millions n ya know regardless this will b a tournament game whether ya quit or not.

 

[SCOTU]

LOL @ all the ppl that haven't really played smash calling M2K a noob/ baby/ just plain insulting him

 

[yoshi_fan]

WTF when did I ask to have a more valid point because I play Melee well, all I'm saying is my stand on wavedashing as it is and that I think we should do something about it. I haven't read the brawl forums much to see if there was any other topics like these so I just made one myself out of anger, because I don't see how it could harm the game, or if it does the help will greatly outweigh the harm.

The copies sold would probably be about the same with or without it, but competition from years to come would greatly be appreciated if Nintendo would do that one extra feature for us. I'm not asking much, I'm just asking for one technique to be back into it.

And I play 64 pretty well and all I do is pick kirby and play gay using broken combos and strats that Isai taught me, I don't enjoy playing that way, but it's enough to compete well with Jerry and other guys. Jerry doesn't even think 64 is very deep, I've asked him himself.

Advanced techs can only help us. Why break something if it isn't broke. The good would still outweigh the bad.

Why don't we try doing something about it, there's still almost 4 months left until Brawl, that's plenty of time to fix one small change, we just need to convince them to do it.

Well, you know

KIRBY DON'T HAVE ANY COMBOS.

It's the cheapest character: overcomes ALL with range, power and speed, but he doesn't have ANY ****ING COMBOS.

I stopped reading when i saw you used a broken character and you even don't know how it's used...

So say M2K: why don't you think from another perspective? Imagine game without Wavedash, like it where before: simple and open to new things, dont focusing ONLY in a techinique Wdash :S

wtf i think i will stop posting and laugh at this war, really: You can't accept this? IS A ****iNG TECHNIQUE DAMMIT, and is used for MOVEMENT and MINDGAME, even not attacks or nothing, only it helps you MOVING and nothing more :S

P.D: I think kirby must have been OUT of 64 tourneys, just because is the SIMPLEST, tough MOST OVERPOWERED character in all fighting games' story :S

YangKang: Wdash being a 50% is a GOOD reason to quit it.
Is supersmash bros, not super wave dash bros you know

 

[smasher32]

Advanced techs can only help us. Why break something if it isn't broke.

see dude, when a majority of people consider wavedashing an exploit of the game, its considered "broken". Hey, I love wavedashing as much as the next person; personally, I think it's a hilarious maneuver. But seriously, no wavedashing might actually make this game more interesting.

Also, if I do say so myself, M2K is acting in hilarious ways. A shame he won't be known for his Brawl skillz

 

[Mew2King]

Speaking of that, when I'm playing I always try to move slower than what I can perfectly control at the time, I only make myself move faster if I think I can do it without messing up. That's something other people should do too.

But besides that, having enough speed can let you cover more options of your opponent if used right, and that can help in making good strategies.

 

[brawlpro]

Well, I heard no one got to use the gcn controller at E for All, so how are you supposed to wd or l-cancel with the wii mote.

LOL @ all the ppl that haven't really played smash calling M2K a noob/ baby/ just plain insulting him

LMAO, nubs.

 

[Zankoku]

People were using the Classic Controller.

 

[TheMastermind]

I Think wavedashing should be in. It another way to separate pros and noobs.
It makes a better game that way.

 

[BigRick]

Well, you know

KIRBY DON'T HAVE ANY COMBOS.

lol wut?

It's more like, YOU can't for **** with Kirby...

 

[Zankoku]

I Think wavedashing should be in. It another way to separate pros and noobs.
It makes a better game that way.

That's almost like saying shieldgrabbing separates good people from noobs.

 

[Mew2King]

Yoshi Fan - you're really dumb if you think that. Kirby can combo Captain Falcon to like 90% by doing a bunch of up tilts from 0%, then when you think you're out of range with up tilts, come down with a Short Hop Fair just before they can DJ away, then before that Fair finishes (Which would push them away because that's what the final hit of his Fair does) you do another up tilt, then a double jump bair (rock if ur feeling risky at lower %s)

That combos most characters to a high %, and depending on the character depends how many up tilts you can do, and it's good to watch what they are doing to see when you need to do the Fair.

You obviously don't know anything about Smash 64.

 

[creep]

Why is this thread even still going? The horse is dead.

 

[b.wood5474]

i might sound like a total noob and im sorry for this, how do you know that wavedashing is not in brawl?

 

[po pimpus]

I was really trying to avoid this thread, because I knew what to expect... I went in once I saw 'Mew2King' and what do I get?

The same old silly whining I've been hearing/reading since the first reports of wavedashing being removed.

I really expected better of an experienced tournament veteran like you, M2K. I thought that you of all people would have the forethought and insight to realize that BRAWL IS NOT MELEE. I'm not trying to flame you, for I have a ton of respect for you as a player. You've worked your *** off for five years trying to climb to the top of the mountain and I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that you are an inspiriation to every kid who dreams of being the best through hard work and determination.

Now, that aside, I want to address all the little toadys who've been jumping on the M2K bandwagon and all the flamers on both sides of this silly argument:

UGH. For God's Sake... If M2K/ChuDat/your momma/whoever feels like they need wavedashing and l-cancelling, then stick with Melee! It's that simple... Brawl is its own game, as was the original SSB and Melee before it.

Anyone who wanted Melee 2.0 is just going to have to cry a river, build a bridge, and get over it. It seems to me that the development team seems pretty focused on fixing the things that needed fixing. Obviously, it looks like Sakurai and his team believed that wavedashing had to go. It's not as HUGE a loss as people are making it out to be.

All this whining and worrying over a short 2-minute demo that doesn't even scratch the surface of the immense game that Brawl is... I expected better of you, Smashboards...

 

[BubbleShield]

Looks like people who want wding will be playing melee forever. You guys keep doing that while the rest of us enjoy brawl.

 

[brawlpro]

I Think wavedashing should be in. It another way to separate pros and noobs.
It makes a better game that way.

noobs can wavedash.

 

[Walgreens Pharmacist]

I can't imagine playing Brawl without Wavedashing, especially because the better I get, the more I apply and use Wavedashing, instinctively even, and there's a LOT of depth that can be unfolded with Wavedashing still in.

Why should things such as Bowser's Flame Cancel be in Brawl while Wavedashing isn't????

We need this back, we need to all write to Nintendo/Sakurai and tell him that what he's doing is a BIG mistake that needs to be fixed.

or we don't and just accept it maybe?
yea, i'll go with that.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

I agree with you Mew2King; why do something totally unnecessary, unprecedented, stupid, and even harmful to the game? Well, there's no reason. I suppose they just didn't care about WD and wanted the momentum dodge, and kind of just forgot or didn't care about it. I would like Nintendo to implement WD, but I'm afraid that however much we complain, cry, argue, or yell, they would not od us a favor like that. I think that they are pretty sure about wanting the momentum dodges as something central to gameplay, and aren' willing to change it. I think we just have to face it that WD is out.

If we can accept that, we can find new techniques all the faster.

 

[maxpower1227]

Really people. IT'S OUT. Deal with it instead of being little babies about it. You ever think that Sakurai meant to take it out? SSB64 works as a competitive game without WDing. Just stop your *****ing and live with it rather then being a bunch of whiny brats.

I don't think they meant to take it out per se. I think they just meant to change the air dodge to make it more realistic - i.e., removing the ability to artificially change your momentum in midair. From that standpoint, I applaud this change, even though I often used the air dodge to help my recovery. I think it makes character movement more realistic, and I'm confident that the people making this game know what they're doing.

As for wavedashing being gone as a side effect of the fixed air dodge, so be it. The game will be JUST FINE without it.

 

[yoshi_fan]

Speaking of that, when I'm playing I always try to move slower than what I can perfectly control at the time, I only make myself move faster if I think I can do it without messing up. That's something other people should do too.

But besides that, having enough speed can let you cover more options of your opponent if used right, and that can help in making good strategies.

Ok... so when i use with sheik doing some sandbagging, i only use the ftilt to keep the bottom tier (put for example picachu) being hitted in the air at about 90% to then being faired to death ZOMG IS A ****ING COMBO

C'mon, if that is only you know about 64, stop saying ****. Also that's is why kirby must be banned from tournamens xd

Also... is very strange that you caught someone into your utilt perfectly. Sorry, i don't think so

Continue playing 64 without using kirby, and you will se the depthness of the game, mr. pro

Just now, i think i don't know as much as you about ssb64, but i think that you are saying that "kirby is a ****ing comboer" makes you trustless and makes me thinking i know more than you at ssb64.

Thinking about it, the ONLY combo kriby has is the utilt... and everyone who cand mindgame kirby can avoid being comboed :S

Also kirby is well comboed by falcon... a little more dificult, but is comboed.

Anyways, i say the same as i've sayed: melee is NOT brawl. Brawl is diferent fron melee and i'm SURE we don't need anymore Wdash if we seeks for brawl's deep... but SEARCH FOR IT and STOP CRYING **** :@ these threads and the "pros" who thinks super smash bros is super wavedash bros are getting anoying :@