Wavedash - DISCONFIRMED!

[Nekora]

funny how you know exactly what article I am referring to along with the fact you know about the 4chan meme.

Gee, it's SO incredibly hard to enter in 'Smash Melee Tournament' into the search bar on ED (2nd hit)! There's no way I could have POSSIBLY found it without knowing about it previously! Also, the ED article in no way makes reference to the 4chan meme, so I had to know about it previously!

If you're so offended over me lumping some tourneyplayers into the 'FD only' status, you guys need to develop a thicker skin. Imagine if I was actually interested in trolling you. I'm aware that few tournaments actually are FD only. I wasn't stating anything about tournament policy, but rather, player preference.

I like how everyone's flaming me over the FD thing, and nobody's actually trying to counter anything I said about Wavedashing, which is what this thread is about. So in order to return the thread to topic, and make everyone stop whining about it and declaring that I 'fail' without even bothering talking about the main point of my post, I'll go ahead and concede to you that tourney players have gotten more diverse about which stages they play.

To reiterate, the point I was trying to make with that analogy, which still stands, is that wavedashing is just as unbalancing to the game as anything any stage has been banned for. That's a bit less inflammatory, and I stand by that point.

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

Ever notice how tourney players have extremely arbitrary rules for what's OK in a match and what's not?

Example: Final Destination is the only stage you can really play on competitively. Because platforms and other complex stage features are 'unfair' and give advantages to certain characters, apparently.(There's some tourney players who like Battlefield though, I'm aware, but there's an entire class of tourney players who hate playing on anything besides FD)

But wavedashing is in. Because it most certainly does NOT give advantages to certain characters, and most certainly is NOT an abuse of the physics engine, and is actually an intentionally designed element of the game, unlike those dumb platforms.

Turning off the snark, I'm personally glad that Wavedashing is gone. I can do it, and I've been known to do it every so often, but I've always thought it was pretty lame. Kind of like how you used to be able to make Custom Combos unblockable in one of the Street Fighter Alpha games, although it's not nearly as game-breaking as that. It was part of competitive play, sure. Was it indended? No. It was actually pretty lame, but if you wanted to win, you had to do it, because everyone else did. That's the situation with Wavedashing.

Most of the tourney players have somehow convinced themselves that Wavedashing is NOT a lame exploit of the physics system, but is actually a COOL FEATURE that adds DEPTH to the game. I'm not entirely sure how they managed this, but sometimes people get so used to something awful that they just can't imagine living without it anymore. (I'm looking at you, too, Windows; I'm guilty of this one too)

Wavedashing actually REMOVED depth from the game by making it less about predicting what you're opponent's going to do, by giving certain characters a degree of mobility they really shouldn't have had (Lessening the mindgame aspect), and it arguably limited the number of characters most people consider suitable for tournament play (Notice that lots of popular tournament characters have great wavedashes, or, lacking that, enough other features to MAKE UP for the lack of a good wavedash). Neither of these things has a positive effect on game depth.

As for the so-called positive influences on game-depth? As other have mentioned in the thread before, adding a complex button-sequence for simple movement does NOT add depth. It only promotes carpal tunnel.

Seriously, people, give up the Wavedash. There will be other strategies in Brawl. Yes, it's being made more accessible. That doesn't mean that the better players won't be able to reliably beat the n00bs. What it DOES mean is that you won't be able to use Luigi to get a burst of speed across a floor while charging a smash by using some arcane and nonsensical button-formula, which is obviously broken. Now start practicing your SHUFFLing some more.

On a different note, this is my first post here. I'm a longtime melee player; I'd put myself at the top end of the 'casual player' spectrum, where I can beat the vast majority of other casual players, and get lucky against the midling-range tourney players now and then. You'll probably start seeing more of me lurking around the forums.

Nekora

Oh boy, what a *******. I won't even try for a witty insult, instead I'll ask you why an advanced tech like wavedashing DOESN'T add depth to a fighting game where freedom of movement is unmatched by any other game of its kind. That sentence about carpal tunnel looks like it was made to get a laugh (fail?), not to make a reasonable point.

Aside from that, you're right, U.S. tournament goers only play on Final Destination... oh, and Fountain of Dreams, and Dream Land 64, and Yoshi's Story, and Battlefield, and Pokemon Stadium, and Corneria, and Green Greens, and Jungle Japes, and Kongo Jungle 64, and Rainbow Cruise, and Poke Floats, and Brinstar, and Mute City. And yeah, stage counterpicks are NOT an essential part of competing, because everyone just picks FD, even Ganon players going up against Falcos.

I love it when morons try to talk down on the tournament scene because of failure/unwillingness to understand it. They go to tournaments get owned, blame it on not being able to pick Hyrule Temple, and hold this eternal grudge on those who follow rules which are by no means arbitrary that aim to permit tournament results to be accurate portrayals of the current state of the metagame, as well as to establish who the most talented players are.

As for wavedashing, I don't see any reason why it being an "arcane" button combination would anger anyone. You don't have to do it. You don't have to go to tournaments if you don't like the rules.

Also, I fail to see how wavedashing removed depth from the game. Prediction is every bit as valuable now as it was before wavedashing. Think of it as this: every new technique that is discovered adds another layer of depth to every other pre-existing technique/concept. Barring, of course, a technique that allowed for an instant one hit KO at any %, from any range at the push of one button... o wate i mes up, i frogot wvaevdashen dose taht!

I digress. Explain to me how it removed depth from the game, disprove my point of it and all other techniques complementing each other, adding layers upon layers of new dimensions to pre-existing key competitive concepts. I know you can't do this, but try. I spent like 8 minutes typing this, and I feel I'm entitled to a few laughs as my karmic reward.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

haha brawl posters make me laugh, mainly because nobody who knows a thing about competitive melee ever wanders over here except for a quick cheap laugh

good stuff good stuff

 

[gnosis]

To reiterate, the point I was trying to make with that analogy, which still stands, is that wavedashing is just as unbalancing to the game as anything any stage has been banned for. That's a bit less inflammatory, and I stand by that point.

It's very possible to beat a Fox who wavedashes perfectly.

It's not possible to beat a Fox who laser camps even half-***** on Temple or Yoshi's Story (the one with the far right cloud), etc.

You don't understand the reasons stages are banned, so your equivocation fails.

 

[maxpower1227]

I just want to say that Wyvern and Nekora win this thread.

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

^of course they do, ****, this is the internet manifestation of bizarro world right here. this is where pat robertson and adolf hitler cuddle under the sheets playing footsies.

 

[Wuth]

Hay Guys! Is Disconfirmed a Word? Lawl.

 

[Kimosabae]

Allright, I couldn't resist.

Ever notice how tourney players have extremely arbitrary rules for what's OK in a match and what's not?

People have already addressed how ill-informed this is.

"Arbitrary rules"? You've just joined this site and you've already extracted a false sense of connoisseurship, before grasping any real information that would actually be of use to you regarding our scene or the game itself.

And make no mistake: a false sense of connoisseurship is exactly what it is, given your choice of wording. Either that, or you're talking out of your azz -- not that you aren't in general.

Example: Final Destination is the only stage you can really play on competitively. Because platforms and other complex stage features are 'unfair' and give advantages to certain characters, apparently.(There's some tourney players who like Battlefield though, I'm aware, but there's an entire class of tourney players who hate playing on anything besides FD)

Uh huh.

Was it indended? No. It was actually pretty lame, but if you wanted to win, you had to do it, because everyone else did. That's the situation with Wavedashing.

How about you research and experience Melee's high level play and its subsequent meta-game prior conjuring up these half-azzed conclusions based upon your ill-informed bias of the subject matter?

Most of the tourney players have somehow convinced themselves that Wavedashing is NOT a lame exploit of the physics system, but is actually a COOL FEATURE that adds DEPTH to the game. I'm not entirely sure how they managed this, but sometimes people get so used to something awful that they just can't imagine living without it anymore. (I'm looking at you, too, Windows; I'm guilty of this one too)

How old are you? Seriously, is this vacuous tripe truly meant to be canon for a serious debate? If I were you, I'd pretend like I didn't even write that.

Wavedashing actually REMOVED depth from the game by making it less about predicting what you're opponent's going to do, by giving certain characters a degree of mobility they really shouldn't have had (Lessening the mindgame aspect),

You're a godd@mned idiot.

How do you logically rationalize a gameplay element adding nothing but increased flexibility to the entire roster's movelist as stripping the game of its variety? WDing is far from the primary supporting pillar of high-level Melee's core gameplay mechanics and is nothing more than an embroidery, decorating the vast superstructure that is the game's elegant design.

As such, the increased variety does nothing but ADD to the "mindgames" you speak of, since logically, there's simply MORE to employ, MORE to enjoy, MORE to consider.

and it arguably limited the number of characters most people consider suitable for tournament play

"Arguably", eh?

Since this is undeniably "arguable" you must have irrefutable examples to pillar the very notion...So, where are the examples? Oh, that's right, you don't have any since you don't know **** about high level play -- just like the average anti-WD/anti-high-level Smash detractor.

(Notice that lots of popular tournament characters have great wavedashes, or, lacking that, enough other features to MAKE UP for the lack of a good wavedash).

Again, these general references aren't cutting it. Off the top of my head I can name numerous characters conventionally considered to have **** WD's that exist in high-top tier -- can you?


I'll stay one tread ahead.

Nope.

Neither of these things has a positive effect on game depth.

Of course, you wouldn't know either way.

As for the so-called positive influences on game-depth? As other have mentioned in the thread before, adding a complex button-sequence for simple movement does NOT add depth. It only promotes carpal tunnel.

Seriously, you're one of the dumbest people I've ever seen unleash turmoil on a keyboard into cyberspace -- unless, you're simply invoking sarcasm in this quoted example, which wouldn't be tendentious to your point of view at all. But just in case you weren't, just let me say it's the fruit of the "complex button-sequences" that generates delight, not the act in-and-of-itself.

What it DOES mean is that you won't be able to use Luigi to get a burst of speed across a floor while charging a smash by using some arcane and nonsensical button-formula, which is obviously broken.

"Obviously", because by extension, Wavedash made Luigi so broken in Melee.

Now start practicing your SHUFFLing some more.

Wow, that's quite condescending. I'd say if anyone needs to practice anything, it's you. Logic, reason and SSBM are obviously not strong suits for you.

-SynikaL
(Seriously though, I hope you die attempting to salvage your conservatism in a fvcking house fire.)

 

[T Bird]

Wave dashing does more to balance characters than it does to unbalance them. Take away the top characters wave dashes and what? Falco is hurt, fox is hurt, sheik is hurt, not bad, marth hurt, peach, doesn't care. Luigi=dead MewTwo=dead Ice Climbers=hurt worse Ganondorf=SOOO slow samus can't roll well, so that goes over poorly.
Frankly, wave dashing does more to balance everything than give characters unfair advantages UNLIKE stages. Fox+Temple=foxwin Fox no wd Vs. Gannon no wd= Fox win. Fox Vs. Gannon=Fox has advantage.

 

[flyinfilipino]

D*mn, you people take something as little as arguing about wavedashing so personally.

 

[Nekora]

I love it when morons try to talk down on the tournament scene because of failure/unwillingness to understand it. They go to tournaments get owned, blame it on not being able to pick Hyrule Temple, and hold this eternal grudge on those who follow rules which are by no means arbitrary in hopes of permitting tournament results to be accurate portrayals of the current state of the metagame, as well as to establish who the most talented players are.

...

Also, I fail to see how wavedashing removed depth from the game. Prediction is every bit as valuable now as it was before wavedashing. Think of it as this: every new technique that is discovered adds another layer of depth to every other pre-existing technique/concept. Barring, of course, a technique that allowed for an instant one hit KO at any %, from any range at the push of one button... o wate i mes up, i frogot wvaevdashen dose taht!

I digress. Explain to me how it removed depth from the game, disprove my point of it and all other techniques complementing each other, adding layers upon layers of new dimensions to pre-existing key competitive concepts. I know you can't do this, but try. I spent like 8 minutes typing this, and I feel I'm entitled to a few laughs as my karmic reward.

Okay, first off; I've never been to a tournament. I've never had the interest. I HAVE practiced with and talked to a lot of tournament players near where I live, and that's where my anecdotal experience comes from. I realize I would most likely get owned, in general; I simply haven't poured in the time investment. However, I don't hold any sort of grudge. There are cool tournament players, and ones who simply are complete balls of fail. I'm not trying to make a judgment on every tournament player, nor am I trying to blame my relative skill on stage bans or no items or whatever (I blame it on the fact that I haven't practiced half as much as the average tourney player, really). In short, you're wrong. Just because some non-tourney players are like that doesn't mean we all are.

Secondly, about how Wavedashing removes depth from the game. An 'advanced movement technique' doesn't necessarily automatically add depth to the game, especially when it allows some characters to do things like scoot around while charging up smashes. What wavedashing does is allow people who don't mind sacrificing their wrists and fingers to carpal tunnel later in life to have a distinct movement advantage over others who don't do it for whatever reason (Can't do it, choose not to, whatever).

I don't believe this is what Smash is about. Smash is about timing, and knowing which move to use in which situation. With wavedashing, a skilled player can simply throw a lot of the timing they might have had to use out the window, and just move fast enough to speed through situations they normally would have had to predict and cleverly counter with the proper move.

Yes, it does add a different layer to the game. So did the unblockable CCs in that SFA game I mentioned earlier. But not all such things are actually GOOD. It would be one thing if it was an intended part of the game, and they actually designed game balance around it. But the fact of the matter is that it was NOT intended and the game was NOT designed with Wavedashing in mind. If you can look at Waveshining and think, "Yes, Sakurai put this in the game intentionally," I think you're more or less braindead.

Overall, I think the main unbalancing problem with Wavedashing isn't the fact that not everyone can do it (Not everyone can SHUFFL and I don't see a problem with that; I agree with the poster here who has already talked about that a few times), but rather that you can do obviously broken things with it, like take moves that normally must be performed while stationary, and move while doing them. This actually REMOVES depth. Would the game be deep if all the 'annoying' restrictions on moves were suddenly taken out? What if you just removed ALL recovery lags on powerful attacks, or aerial attacks (Instant beyond even what l-cancel gets you)? What if you didn't have to stay still while charging a smash in general? All these things would remove depth from the game. Wavedashing does too. It's that simple.

 

[Pookiez]

um..it just looked like he airdoged and was moving down with the level change..

That is exactly what i have been thinking. really don't see how everyone is saying that this video is clear proof. And no, this isn't a sign of denial. I'm still rooting for wavelanding of some sort though it's pretty much what made ICs really fun to play for me.

 

[cam`]

How old are you? Seriously, is this vacuous tripe truly meant to be canon for a serious debate? If I were, I'd pretend like I didn't even write that.

hey buddy, put that thesaurus away! i don't really know what 'If I were, I'd pretend like I didn't even write that.' means, but it sounds like something i might say to you

Seriously, you're one of the dumbest people I've ever seen unleash turmoil on a keyboard into cyberspace -- unless, you're simply invoking sarcasm in this quoted example, which wouldn't be tendentious to your point of view at all.

w-w-w-whoops! time to log off SWF and read a book.

 

[KirbySSB]

If pivoting is in, and wavedashing is out, the game is gonna become a hell of a lot more technically demanding.

Just food for thought.

 

[SirroMinus1]

please post it from youtube im on my wii.

 

[Xengri]

Why the hell are you guys bickering about wavedash....

Can none of you see the real lost here? Air dodging has been screwed over! And we all know that was far more important then WD...

 

[Gimpyfish62]

i used to laugh at people saying dumb things, but now i just get sort of sad

 

[OmegaXXII]

what!!!! wavedashing gone? noooooooo

 

[Xengri]

i used to laugh at people saying dumb things, but now i just get sort of sad

Gimpy, If you come back from E4All disproving all the things said about Brawl's air dodge.

I will personally go to your house and hand deliver a cookie cake while wearing a Bowser costume.

(crosses fingers)

 

[Nekora]

Allright, I couldn't resist.


People have already addressed how ill-informed this is.

"Arbitrary rules"? You've just joined this site and you've already extracted a false sense of connoisseurship, before grasping any real information that would actually be of use to you regarding our scene or the game itself.

[blah blah blah]

All right, I'll bite, even though most of the content of your post is an ad-hominem attack. Just so you know, spewing hot-air about how childish I am is really funny when your argument amounts to 'You're an idiot, so you're wrong'. It doesn't actually fool anybody. By rights, I could just turn it about on you, quote every line you posted, declare them wrong, and then make fun of them without actually giving a reason why, since that's exactly what you did.

In response to the only actual POINT I could find in your post: I am COMPLETELY aware that WD is NOT the be-all and end-all of high-level melee techniques. It's not INCREDIBLY powerful and it usually doesn't mean the difference between victory and defeat. However, it DOES provide an advantage, and a much greater one to certain characters than others. More importantly, it's a physics exploit and goes against the overall design of Smash, which countless others in the thread have pointed out (And nobody has yet actually managed to contradict this point yet).

Once again, I'll ask: Can you look at Waveshining, and honestly say "Yes, I think Sakurai put this in the game intentionally." ? If so, then kindly remove yourself from the internet, because you fail.

And with that, I'm done feeding the trolls. Time for work.

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

I'm going to fix your post.

I don't believe this is what Smash is about. Smash is about timing, and knowing which move to use in which situation. With wavedashing, none of this changes.

Granted, what you believe smash is about doesn't matter at all to the competitive community. Why do you even care how we play? You don't go to tournaments!

The rest was just the same misinformed scatter shot of bias blanketing all the Brawl forums, and also Congress. I don't have to respond to it. You just keep thinking wavedashing is for charging smashes, until Brawl's br0k3n tech is discovered, then complain about that.

I agree with Gimpyfish, I got like zero laughs here. I am more serious than a Bad Situation right now, possibly later I will be sad.

 

[E-Jolteon]

Good ridance. Wavedah is a technique that I can almost never pull off anyway.

 

[gnosis]

Once again, I'll ask: Can you look at Waveshining, and honestly say "Yes, I think Sakurai put this in the game intentionally." ? If so, then kindly remove yourself from the internet, because you fail.

And with that, I'm done feeding the trolls. Time for work.

Uhh, did any of us say that? I'm confused, I'm pretty sure we were never talking about that until you brought it up for some reason. And even if we were somehow, since when did it matter if it was intentional or not? How is that a point? What fighting game community is like "guys, we gotta play like the designers intended :O!"?

Though that last line was pretty smooth :D

 

[Nintendude]

It's a disgrace that such noobishness exists here.

If pivoting is in, and wavedashing is out, the game is gonna become a hell of a lot more technically demanding.

Just food for thought.

That was the case in SSB64 but pivoting in SSB64 is ridiculously easy.

Also I bet nearly everyone saying Mewtwo is worst char in the game only thinks that because the tier list says that, not because they actually have good reasons to believe that. Well, if I'm not mistaken the tier list was released before Taj's advancements in Mewtwo's metagame became known to everyone, so don't just say it because the tiers say it. In my opinion Mewtwo is at least better than Kirby and Pichu, and possibly better than some of the other bottom tiers too.

 

[h1roshi]

Ever notice how tourney players have extremely arbitrary rules for what's OK in a match and what's not?

Example: Final Destination is the only stage you can really play on competitively. Because platforms and other complex stage features are 'unfair' and give advantages to certain characters, apparently.(There's some tourney players who like Battlefield though, I'm aware, but there's an entire class of tourney players who hate playing on anything besides FD)

But wavedashing is in. Because it most certainly does NOT give advantages to certain characters, and most certainly is NOT an abuse of the physics engine, and is actually an intentionally designed element of the game, unlike those dumb platforms.

Turning off the snark, I'm personally glad that Wavedashing is gone. I can do it, and I've been known to do it every so often, but I've always thought it was pretty lame. Kind of like how you used to be able to make Custom Combos unblockable in one of the Street Fighter Alpha games, although it's not nearly as game-breaking as that. It was part of competitive play, sure. Was it indended? No. It was actually pretty lame, but if you wanted to win, you had to do it, because everyone else did. That's the situation with Wavedashing.

Most of the tourney players have somehow convinced themselves that Wavedashing is NOT a lame exploit of the physics system, but is actually a COOL FEATURE that adds DEPTH to the game. I'm not entirely sure how they managed this, but sometimes people get so used to something awful that they just can't imagine living without it anymore. (I'm looking at you, too, Windows; I'm guilty of this one too)

Wavedashing actually REMOVED depth from the game by making it less about predicting what you're opponent's going to do, by giving certain characters a degree of mobility they really shouldn't have had (Lessening the mindgame aspect), and it arguably limited the number of characters most people consider suitable for tournament play (Notice that lots of popular tournament characters have great wavedashes, or, lacking that, enough other features to MAKE UP for the lack of a good wavedash). Neither of these things has a positive effect on game depth.

As for the so-called positive influences on game-depth? As other have mentioned in the thread before, adding a complex button-sequence for simple movement does NOT add depth. It only promotes carpal tunnel.

Seriously, people, give up the Wavedash. There will be other strategies in Brawl. Yes, it's being made more accessible. That doesn't mean that the better players won't be able to reliably beat the n00bs. What it DOES mean is that you won't be able to use Luigi to get a burst of speed across a floor while charging a smash by using some arcane and nonsensical button-formula, which is obviously broken. Now start practicing your SHUFFLing some more.

On a different note, this is my first post here. I'm a longtime melee player; I'd put myself at the top end of the 'casual player' spectrum, where I can beat the vast majority of other casual players, and get lucky against the midling-range tourney players now and then. You'll probably start seeing more of me lurking around the forums.

Nekora

hahah, silly noob...peace

-hiroshi

 

[po pimpus]

Wow. This is what I get for wandering into the Brawl section... All I see is, "WAVEDASHING IS GONE, NOW I WON'T SUCK! or NOT ITS NOT! YOU'RE A BIG, STUPID DUMBHEAD AND I HATE YOU!!"

Seriously, whether its in or out, wavedashing won't be the end of everything. Any Melee player with any kind of skill already knows that. Look, I realize a lot of you are just youngsters who have only recently joined these forums, but I've been around since before wavedashing was even a fully accepted technique. Heck, when I joined these forums, people were still arguing over whether it was truly a helpful technique or not.

All in all, I'd say whatever happens with Brawl, I'm still going to play the hell out of it come February. Most of the questions and speculation will be put to rest once Gimpyfish and other Smashboards vets attend E For All tomorrow. I'll be glad when they can finally put this puppy to bed, and all you whiny scrubs can go back to *****ing about the Dojo updates: "THEY ONLY GAVE US AN ASSIST TROPHY! I WANT A NEW CHARACTER EVERY DAY UNTIL THE RELEASE!!"

Ah, those were the good ol' days...

 

[Pookiez]

Wavedashing made certain character "un-useable" meaning they were crap. This also nerfs alot of characters while beefing up others.

tl;dr, Brawl will be VERY balanced unless a someone abuses a physics engine again.

what? the opposite dude, it gave really slow characters some mobility they needed.

 

[Xengri]

You know Nekora, you're argument might have held some merit if it wasn't for these

Example: Final Destination is the only stage you can really play on competitively.

Wavedashing actually REMOVED depth from the game by making it less about predicting what you're opponent's going to do, by giving certain characters a degree of mobility they really shouldn't have had (Lessening the mindgame aspect), and it arguably limited the number of characters most people consider suitable for tournament play (Notice that lots of popular tournament characters have great wavedashes, or, lacking that, enough other features to MAKE UP for the lack of a good wavedash). Neither of these things has a positive effect on game depth.

I mean I'm never one to disregard someone when they are actually trying to make a point. But come one, do you really believe those two things that you said?

I know it's only a small part of what you've posted, but if you really believe this, then the rest of you're statements mean nothing. The sear ignorance of these quotes makes it that everything else you go on to say meaningless. I doubt most people even read past the first quote...
I'm not saying that you have no point/intelligence but if you really think that tournaments plays only play on FD and that characters with the great Wavedashes are the most popular (Mewtwo= exact opposite, Luigi isn't really up there ether)....

It makes it really hard to take you seriously.

 

[SlayerOfMe]

Time to find a new main, sorry Luigi

 

[A Diamond For Disease]

Wow. This is what I get for wandering into the Brawl section... All I see is, "WAVEDASHING IS GONE, NOW I WON'T SUCK! or NOT ITS NOT! YOU'RE A BIG, STUPID DUMBHEAD AND I HATE YOU!!"

Seriously, whether its in or out, wavedashing won't be the end of everything. Any Melee player with any kind of skill already knows that. Look, I realize a lot of you are just youngsters who have only recently joined these forums, but I've been around since before wavedashing was even a fully accepted technique. Heck, when I joined these forums, people were still arguing over whether it was truly a helpful technique or not.

All in all, I'd say whatever happens with Brawl, I'm still going to play the hell out of it come February. Most of the questions and speculation will be put to rest once Gimpyfish and other Smashboards vets attend E For All tomorrow. I'll be glad when they can finally put this puppy to bed, and all you whiny scrubs can go back to *****ing about the Dojo updates: "THEY ONLY GAVE US AN ASSIST TROPHY! I WANT A NEW CHARACTER EVERY DAY UNTIL THE RELEASE!!"

Ah, those were the good ol' days...

LMAO. Those are my thoughts exactly good call.

 

[Pookiez]

Time to find a new main, sorry Luigi

I'm just really sad that i'm going to have to let go of the ICs >_>. Assuming they didn't completely break desyncinyg anyways which i would have had to stop playing them anyways.

 

[Shai Hulud]

I laugh at all these kids who think they will stand a chance just because wavedashing is gone. If Brawl doesn't fail competitively FOR OTHER REASONS (which it might) like horribly imbalanced character designs, then bad kids will still get destroyed by good players 100% of the time.

As long as dash-dancing and pivoting are in the game then the loss of wavedashing, while detrimental to some characters (ICs for low tier, anyone?) will not completely destroy the game. Even in Melee dash-dancing and pivoting can completely replace wavedashing in some characters. Almost noone chose to focus on pivoting for spacing over wavedashing, however, because it is MUCH HARDER than wavedashing. That's right. Wavedashing is tremendously easy--pivoting is not. If pivoting remains and it becomes the primary technique for spacing, then casual players will find it even more difficult to become competitive.

So to summarize:

LOL.

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

I used to like Shail Hulud.

on topic: lol, I hadn't thought of it like that.

 

[Misto-Roboto]

Why does anyone really care? We all know Brawl is going to be drastically different now that aerial combat is part of the game play and the characters have had overhauls in their moves regardless if they look similar. It is very possible the techniques of Melee, or at least some of them, will become obsolete to the competitive community. I believe people still have it in their mind because videos have said it feels similar to Melee thus Brawl will have all of Melee's advance techniques. If the competitive community is indeed competitive, won't they just find some other bug to exploit (I know, I know, some of your don't think it is a glitch, shut up, because I don't really care about semantics) anyways?

 

[The Alpha Gundam]

man this thread is 2funny.
i shall await for gimpy and others to come back from e for all with info.
you guys should do the same.

 

[theONEjanitor]

lmfao @ this video not proving anything.
Gosh all this brawl speculation kinda makes me queasy.

Wavedashing could be removed...
OR

Diddy Kong could be a really high traction character.
OR
the air dodge wasn't performed close enough to the ground, (have you people every played with fox? If he airdodges too high off the ground, he'll simply hit the ground and not slide. same goes with sheik.)
OR
Diddy Kong could have a very shot air dodge animation
OR
the air dodge animations in general could be really short
OR
the move Diddy performed wasn't an air dodge
OR
(and this is what I believe is the case)
The only reason Diddy Kong is moving to the right is because he jumped to the right. If he was "holding" right as you claim, I'm sure an agile character like Diddy would have moved MUCH further across the screen. So my guess is he jumped to the right and then STOPPED DIing, and then air dodged IN PLACE.

Not deconfirmed yet, buddy.


anyway guys, there are going to TONS of NEW advanced techs and exploits in Brawl, almost certianly. Thats how it is with all games.
There'll be a competitive aspect, no doubt.

i'll share a secret with all the noobs.

(techs like wavedashing aren't the reason that pros are better)

 

[Xengri]

I couldn't care less about WD, I was prepared to let that go a long time ago.

But directional Air dodge..... I'm just hoping someone from E4All says it's still in and that this just happened to be total BS.

 

[PIT_IS_BACK]

Lets take some advice from wikipedia!

"This article or section contains information about an unreleased video game.
The content may change substantially as more information becomes available. Please do not add speculation to this article, and remember to cite a published source for details."

 

[FrostByte]

If people don't use the technique, why should they care if it's gone anyway? Completely idiotic.

I have a feeling that Brawl won't be a very difficult game to master and I fear that it's gameplay may be too shallow for the competitive gamer. The last 2 games' commonly used techniques seemed to have been accidental. Since they now know about competitive play and these techniques, what's stopping them from removing everything else? I'm sure some idiot out there would love to have shorthopping removed cause it's hard to do.

To those saying Smash "should be played as a game of decision making," more techniques mean more possible outcomes. It's like saying there should only be 3 techniques in the game, A>B, B>C abd C>A. Try and predict which one your opponent will use.

How many people would waste their money to buy Rock paper scissors with the faces of Nintendo characters stuck on them?

 

[Nintendude]

If people don't use the technique, why should they care if it's gone anyway? Completely idiotic.

I have a feeling that Brawl won't be a very difficult game to master and I fear that it's gameplay may be too shallow for the competitive gamer. The last 2 games' commonly used techniques seemed to have been accidental. Since they now know about competitive play and these techniques, what's stopping them from removing everything else? I'm sure some idiot out there would love to have shorthopping removed cause it's hard to do.

To those saying Smash "should be played as a game of decision making," more techniques mean more possible outcomes. It's like saying there should only be 3 techniques in the game, A>B, B>C abd C>A. Try and predict which one your opponent will use.

How many people would waste their money to buy Rock paper scissors with the faces of Nintendo characters stuck on them?

Who cares how easy the tech skill is. Melee's at the point where like EVERYONE has the tech skill mastered, but that doesn't mean everyone is just as good. All that determines how good a player is is how smart the player is. Good tech skill is pretty much assumed now. All easier tech skill does it enlarge the pool of competitive players. I'd rather 90% of my opponents have the tech down than only like 50%. It's not as fun facing someone who constantly misses his L-cancels.