Wario Q&A Thread

[Pwneroni]

True, but it hits on frame 5.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Does it? Hmm...

All I know is that Dash Attack is the only guaranteed D-Throw follow-up on Squirtle.

 

[Pwneroni]

Question: Is there a list of the percentages of Wario's Dthrow chaingrab on all the characters? I think I've seen it somewhere, but can't find it and am trying to add it to the AT thread.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Question: Is there a list of the percentages of Wario's Dthrow chaingrab on all the characters? I think I've seen it somewhere, but can't find it and am trying to add it to the AT thread.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=228427

 

[C.J.]

Fun Fact:
Wario's Fsmash > MK's SL
It killed me in tourny. Hitlag is gay.

 

[Pwneroni]

wow thanks a lot reflex! you da man!

 

[B.Mack]

True, but it hits on frame 5.

it hits on frame 4. dtilt hits on frame 5, thats why dtilt is slower than dash attack.

The dthrow CG thread should DEFINITELY be added to the Wario directory... way too many requests come in about it.

every single time I see Reflex post, I get happy in the pants. You(and Pwneroni) seem pretty determined to make metagame advancements for Wario... keep it up fellas.

 

[Pwneroni]

Whoops 0.o guess I was wrong, my bad! Always thought they were the same speed heh.

 

[DeLux]

I've been thread searching and can't find an answer so I thought I'd ask directly.

Do we have any guarnteed follow ups to an MK air release? Can we force air release?

I've decided I'm most likely going to go Wario for pools at my next tourney so any other info on the MK matchup would be appreciated. (I've already read the matchup thread, so don't please link me to it lol)

 

[B.Mack]

we can force an air release on MK, yes. from the air release we have DACUS guaranteed. however it's only guaranteed if we get the timing perfectly. or else, MK can dair you or nair I think(not sure)

on smashville, if you grab MK on the platform, you have a guaranteed fsmash or fart. now just listen...

-If you grab him facing the way the platform is going, when he releases just time it and chrge your fsmash for a split second before releasing it or at least wait an instant before hitting the cstick. if you just spam the cstick, if wont connect. time your press of downB for the (half)waft. it's guaranteed but i think you need to shorthop into it.
-If you grab MK on the platform the "wrong" way, do not fret! you can dthrow for a GUARANTEED turnaround regrab, and then force air release into your fsmash or fart!
^^ I just tested all this myself so its BMack approved

also, I would advise a 99-stock against MK CPU so you can get a feel of MK's aerial mobility and how you can exploit it. stuff like that. dtilt is a nice surprise move to throw out... spaced utilts will actually beat Tornado from the bottom due to how long the hitbox is out and its a bit disjointed too

 

[DeLux]

Alright. And also, in regards to all the nado nonsense from earlier involving PSC, according to some other Labbies, the more you press B on the nado, the faster the hit box frames come out. And it comes out in 5 Frames. However, the gap between the second to last and last hitbox can be up to 10 frames or something like that. Go read the PSC thread if you want more info.

I'm not sure why I can dash shield grab it with IC's but that's what they told me. It was supported by the fact that I frame tested it and couldn't get frame perfect PSC grab a nado with a 6 frame grab.

However, I WAS able to confirm that if you SDI up during Nado, it was significant enough to make you SDI/DI out of it by popping up and avoid getting hit by another hitbox. Which would then put you directly above the nado, which makes it so you can Dair it. Or I saw a video of Bassem vs. Domo where he traded hits with Nado, and followed the MK to uair it when the move cooldown occurred.

 

[toobusytocare]

you also get clap on the sv platform

 

[Zigsta]

What do you guys think of Wario's jab canceling?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

What do you guys think of Wario's jab canceling?

I've been using a lot more jab than normal just for spacing without having to move away (via F-Air), and I like the results. I'm not sure if the hitbox lingers at all, but people seem to run into it a lot; when spaced well, it seems pretty safe.

As far as jab canceling goes, jab -> grab functions well enough; Wario does have solid range on the jab, and since hitstun is greater as percents go up, jab -> F-Smash is a true combo at 100+%. It's there, and it's useful, for sure.

 

[toobusytocare]

i dont think jab fsmash is ever a true combo but it works if they dont shield (aka try to interrupt)

 

[TheReflexWonder]

i dont think jab fsmash is ever a true combo but it works if they dont shield (aka try to interrupt)

I'm almost positive that it definitely works when you do it to someone who's offstage, at the very least.

Also, there's that fun fact--When Wario does his first jab at the edge of a walking surface (platform, stage, etc.), it automatically jab cancels if you don't press anything else by the time the cancel could normally happen.

 

[toobusytocare]

well offstage/in the air they cant PS <_<

 

[DMG]

Jab to Fsmash at higher %'s is either a true combo, or only escapable through DJ

 

[Lord Chair]

Jab to Fsmash at higher %'s is either a true combo, or only escapable through DJ

This.

Heavy characters and fastfallers are (surprise) harder to combo than lighter and/or floatier characters. It's kinda the same with with nair > fsmash or even nair > grab.

Example: On Olimar, you can even do nair > nair at relatively low percentages. Keep in mind that SH nair comes out at frame 11. You can expect jab to work rather fine against Olimar as well.

On Falcon, however, you shouldn't even bother with nair > grab (at low percentages) because he'll jab you inbetween, same goes for Falco and Snake. I've never had jab > fsmash work on these characters either, jab1 starts having knockback at the percentages on which you would 'otherwise' have a frame advantage large enough to fsmash.

 

[Padô]

On Snake and Falco I've done Jab > FSmash A LOT of times, Snake is harder IMO, but that's probably my opponents SDI.

I find Falco, Wolf and Fox a lot easier to do because they got the crazy 'flip' animation when they get hit by something. After CG'ing Falco you can buffer a turnaround Jab, if he gets hit by it proceed to FSmash, if he spotdodges it don't worry and proceed to FSmash him anyways, be careful with this since they can PS this and punish but it's just something you can do after executing it.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Can someone tell me why the second N-Air hitbox sometimes varies for me?

It's the same damage and knockback, but sometimes it hits soon after a sweetspotted first hit of N-Air, and other times, it hits much later in the animation. The latter appears to happen more often, and it allows me to follow up at low percents--Am I just "accidentally" aiming for it? Or am I just crazy?

 

[Lord Chair]

Well, depends on your movement and your opponent's percentage. If you space it away and notice it hits, you will still hit it only with a bit more delay. If nair1 hits your opponent at mid percentages, he'll fly away faster than you move initially, until you catch up with him and hit him with nair2.

Either of those, or a combination of the two.

 

[toobusytocare]

You just gotta see the hit box for nair

 

[Pwneroni]

Dude I think the second hit of Nair might be my favorite thing in the <b>ENTIRE</b> game! No joke!

Edit: Seriously!

Oh and about Reflex's question: The first hitbox of Nair only lasts for a very short time. The second hitbox is the one after the first ends, and it lasts for quite a long time! The second hitbox is weak (3-4% dmg), but like you know that's the money hit.

Sometimes if the conditions are just right, you can hit certain larger characters (or average ones at low %-age) with both Nair hits rapidly. You basically have to be inside them the whole time for this to happen I think haha.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[Padô]

There is also a small hitlag when you hit someone with a move, this happens with every move, what happens is when you hit someone with the first hitbox the 2nd hitbox will come out SLIGHTLY later but that's not a big deal the lag is really small, the 2nd hitbox will last as long as the usual it will come out slightly later.

 

[B.Mack]

I think dtilt is actually not bad as a quick "get out free" move.
like if you just swallowed an item and you know your opponent is rushing at you to punish or something... just dtilit. they rarely ever even expect it and it comes out fast enough to beat most stuff ur gonna be getting punished with... I dunno... I just like the move now... lol.

its not as laggy as dash attack where you almost always give your opponent a free fair on you when it hits, dtilt will actually lead into a fair, nair or another dtilt about 90% of the time

 

[PieDisliker]

Is wafting a safe way to get out of juggling? Particularly MK.

I remember being juggled with a few uairs and then a nair at low percent, and then I wafted and killed the MK (who was at high percent). I'm not sure whether it was just a good read, or a legit move after the nair. The MK obviously made a mistake by nairing, but is it safe to waft in that situation?

 

[Dynomite]

I go for the Dtilt out of Ground break. Its the 2nd fastest move we have. Dash attack is on frame 4 and our fastest but i wouldnt want to risk inputting a DownC as down smash.

 

[B.Mack]

I got something guys. when you see an MK gliding, jump at him and nair.

Now, one of four things will happen, in accordance to how favourable each outcome is:
-MK doesnt react in time or mistimes their glide attack. You will hit them with nair1 or nair2.
-Nair1 and the glide attack will clank. Nair2 will then hit MK.
-nair1 will whiff and nair2 will clank with glide attack.
-you are ******** and you nair so damn early that nair2 is over by the time MK glide attacks, and you get hit.

in other words, I'm 90% sure it is totally safe to nair a gliding MK since glide attack is their only option and nair1(well timed) will ALWAYS clank with it, while allowing nair2 to still come out.

I used to employ a similar technique before with fair, but I only just saw in the match Domo(MK) vs Dphat(Wario) 2 at around 0:30 that clanking nair will still allow the second hitbox to come out.

I say its 90% because I havent fully tested it yet, I've only tested it with fair(with which its 100% guaranteed to clank and very easy to do)

you can probably acheive a similar outcome with dair, clanking with glide attack on the first hitbox and hitting with the rest but I'm not sure if it works like that.

ALSO, do nair1 and nair2 refresh two move spaces? are they treated as separate moves in the stale-move system? or does staling nair1 mean staling nair2 as well?

 

[DMG]

Nair 1 and Nair 2 count for the same move. If you hit with both parts, only 1 move is refreshed.


Not the biggest fan of Nairing MK because Glide attack will actually beat it if you are not dead square with him. A lot of times getting completely square with him is hard, which is why you see people try to clap it since MK has more options concerning where he is vertically over horizontally.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

I'm sure better Wario players can answer this easily but when recovering under the stage or if you need a lot of vertical height to reach the edge or platform you use the Wario Bike before you jump, jump off the bike and use his up B if needed? I ask since I sometimes screw up recovering since I'm so used to jumping.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I'm sure better Wario players can answer this easily but when recovering under the stage or if you need a lot of vertical height to reach the edge or platform you use the Wario Bike before you jump, jump off the bike and use his up B if needed? I ask since I sometimes screw up recovering since I'm so used to jumping.

Jumping off the bike doesn't count as your mid-air jump. Generally speaking, I feel that it's best to use your bike before using your mid-air jump.

Most importantly, you must make sure none of your jumps are wasted; don't pull out your bike where Meta Knight will be able to D-Air you off of it.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I'm sure better Wario players can answer this easily but when recovering under the stage or if you need a lot of vertical height to reach the edge or platform you use the Wario Bike before you jump, jump off the bike and use his up B if needed? I ask since I sometimes screw up recovering since I'm so used to jumping.

You should normally recover high as Wario. You're going to run into a lot of trouble when recovering low.

 

[Pwneroni]

True AL, very true. Not as much as you'd think, if you count having a fart (best case) and a really great airdodge, as well as an upB with great potential (lagging it on your bike at the edge of the stage). Definitely riskier than recovering high though haha.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

Jumping off the bike doesn't count as your mid-air jump. Generally speaking, I feel that it's best to use your bike before using your mid-air jump.

Most importantly, you must make sure none of your jumps are wasted; don't pull out your bike where Meta Knight will be able to D-Air you off of it.

Yeah. It's a bad habit of doing the mid-air jump before using Wario Bike. Well considering I use too many characters so I have to switch things when I swap out characters. Thank you TheReflexWonder!

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

You should normally recover high as Wario. You're going to run into a lot of trouble when recovering low.

I noticed when I experimented on FD on recovery. For certain characters I know they can mess him up enough to prevent his return. Plus I'm aware his Up B isn't so good so I have to timed the jumps correctly! Thanks AlMoStLeGeNdArY! I would've quoted it in my previous message but I don't know how.XD Sorry about that.

 

[Dynomite]

Yeah. It's a bad habit of doing the mid-air jump before using Wario Bike. Well considering I use too many characters so I have to switch things when I swap out characters. Thank you TheReflexWonder!

Not really a bad habit. You sometimes should use your jump before using the bike.

As reflex and AL said, you dont want to recover very low against characters that can knock you off your bike.

You can jump, bike away from the stage then jump. This gives you enough room to where you wont get hit by the opponent and you can get to your desired hight to where you not, as much, in the danger zone.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Not really a bad habit. You sometimes should use your jump before using the bike.

Sometimes, but the fact that the mid-air jump is instantaneous means that you should save it in case someone gets into position to hit you, because the bike will not allow you to avoid anyone's fast attack like a mid-air jump to an immediate airdodge will.

That being said, this isn't law; the only important thing is to make sure you get both jumps without getting hit. Like Dyno said, you may have to use your bike away from the stage in order to avoid an attack (remember to lean back on your bike before jumping if you can spare the time; you jump higher and not as forward).

 

[Pwneroni]

Fun fact: if you tilt your bike backwards in the air, you go MUCH higher than you would if it tilts forwards. Often if you are at perilous depths, it's really worth it to take that extra second to tilt the hog back before you jump off. It makes more of a difference than you think!