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Wario Q&A Thread
- Thread starter ssbbFICTION
- Start date
Also, if you're in a position where you feel like you may be hit out of your jump (especially your bike), it is a good idea to quarter-circle DI between up and the direction of the stage. If you're hit, the resulting knockback won't be as detrimental to your recovery.
It's like how I always mash to get out of grabs when I leave myself open--It's usually a good idea to be a cynic.
It's like how I always mash to get out of grabs when I leave myself open--It's usually a good idea to be a cynic.
SupaSairentoZ7℠
Smash Hero
Heh, I really appreciate the advice. I have fun with Wario and I use him as much as I use Peach. I fight real well with Wario but I will admit I had embrassing KOs as Wario because of mid air jumping then pull out the bike but didn't get the height needed to make it to the stage. If I'm high in the air I can make it back safely with no trouble. Though when he is low from the stage as was mention it can hurt Wario. On free time I can practice it more. I hate to be able to fight well as Wario to not be able to recover from any spot below stages when I need to and have that weakness exploited and cost me matches.Also, if you're in a position where you feel like you may be hit out of your jump (especially your bike), it is a good idea to quarter-circle DI between up and the direction of the stage. If you're hit, the resulting knockback won't be as detrimental to your recovery.
It's like how I always mash to get out of grabs when I leave myself open--It's usually a good idea to be a cynic.
General recovery tips, it seems, but it helps the most against Meta Knight, for obvious reasons.
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,065
Recovery tip: If you know you're in serious trouble off the edge, a good Wario will sacrifice his Waft for another chance at recovering. However, if your fart isn't all the way charged, resist the urge!! If you just poot in vain, you will just reset your Waft timer for nothing. Save it so you can be a serious threat on your next stock
Wario should never SD if he can pull out the bike... even from the bottom corners... I believe wheelie bike jump + air mobility + UpB are enough to make the ledge.
farts should only be used for recovery if you are at low % and you'll die without it. although I've used my fart to recover once at 150% because I had no intention of killing the other person... I just aircamped and timed the other person out
Speaking of MK... if you wheelie when you pull out the bike you can actually knock MK out of the way before he hits you and you still get your bike jump and all... I usually wheelie and then stall my jump until I feel safe from MK because they usually expect you to jump instantly.
farts should only be used for recovery if you are at low % and you'll die without it. although I've used my fart to recover once at 150% because I had no intention of killing the other person... I just aircamped and timed the other person out
Speaking of MK... if you wheelie when you pull out the bike you can actually knock MK out of the way before he hits you and you still get your bike jump and all... I usually wheelie and then stall my jump until I feel safe from MK because they usually expect you to jump instantly.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
From the bottom corners: no, just Bike won't get you back to the ledge.
Depends on the stage. I bet it could do so on, say, Pictochat.
I very very clearly said bike AND UpB. I also said IF you can get the bike out. sometimes you are so low that you die as soon as the bike comes out.
I think I may try backward Jab for spacing, maybe after landing the edge of a jab at low percents, where you wouldn't be able to do anything but a second jab (which could miss due to SDI, technically). It might confuse/scare people into doing things, and if they try to retaliate or roll behind you (like Meta Knight), you'll be in good position to punish.
It sounds silly, since you could simply space by walking or foxtrotting, but people definitely feel more pressure when faced with something that is new to them. We'll see what happens.
It sounds silly, since you could simply space by walking or foxtrotting, but people definitely feel more pressure when faced with something that is new to them. We'll see what happens.
CXderp
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2011
- Messages
- 6
who is wario's most difficult matchup
I main Toonlink, and also frequent Pikachu, Pit, Donkey Kong, and Samus. I am aiming to destroy a particular opponent whom mostly plays Wario.
1) which character (out of the entire roster) does Wario have the most trouble with? (on Final Destination)
2) which character out of the ones i have listed has the best intrinsic chance of defeating Wario (on Final Destination)
I main Toonlink, and also frequent Pikachu, Pit, Donkey Kong, and Samus. I am aiming to destroy a particular opponent whom mostly plays Wario.
1) which character (out of the entire roster) does Wario have the most trouble with? (on Final Destination)
2) which character out of the ones i have listed has the best intrinsic chance of defeating Wario (on Final Destination)
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Instead of CP'ing learn your characters and the MU's none of the MU's are to the point where you need to CP just step your game up.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
Stop pluralizing using the apostrophe.
Dynomite
Smash Champion
Q&A thread PLEASE.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
Moved to the Q and A thread.
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,065
You basically have to just maneuver around G&W's hitboxes, while sneaking in hits of your own. His Nair and Bair have really high priority hitboxes, so don't challenge those directly (unless with Ftilt, pretty sure that goes through a lot of G&W's moves if you space it right). All of Wario's moves have uses, Utilt goes through G&W's key!
Lord Chair
Smash Master
OK time for a monster post cause S!C is German.
The thing with G&W is that he has a lot of stuff to beat you out, and will frequently do just that. What nacks him is the fact that even if he hits you, he won't necessarily get funny follow-ups unless you're at low percentages.
Low percentages netting him stuff like nair > nair > lololol uair stuff which may or may not nack you your DJ and blah, requires him to get certain reads to fully utilize your position but getting racked to say, 40% from 0 isn't that rare. Those situations are fully avoidable, too.
What you don't want to be doing is committing to vertical approaches too often. He'll practically beat those out most of the time by just SH nairing, which is his main spacing tool in this matchup. Aside of beating out vertical approaches, it also beats shield approaches if spaced correctly. Shield approach is pretty much completely safe in this matchup, and will often net you a certain amount of zoning, and rarely more than that.
Commit to shield approaching too much, and it gets baired. Bair on your shield is unpunishable, don't try to nair OoS chase him or anything like that, he can practically just walk away and don't really be bothered by your reaction.
Back to nair, simple SH fairs and bairs will beat it out. It's a bit of a silly rock-paper-scissors, in which neither player will really be able to commit to high-risk, high-reward stuff. G&W can sort of wall, but it never really nets him zoning. His 'walling' consists of actually just random usmashes and dtilts, which are fairly safe for him to do. Really, if he just charges an usmash a bit away from you, the only thing you'll really be able to do is slowly walk up to him and perfectly time a ftilt. It's a rather annoying situation, obviously hitting the thing nets you 14% (or a kill), but a slight mistiming kills you in a fairly silly manner.
Dtilt is more easily punishable, dash shield beats it unless it's perfectly spaced. If he doesn't get to perfectly space it, you can either shieldgrab it or shielddrop fsmash/jab.
Random gimmick: if G&W uairs your Bike, whether you threw it or he did, it becomes his projectile and flies pretty damn high.
UpB also beats your vertical approaches, and you really need to read it in order to effectively punish it with uair, it's really his best escaping tool, getting him to think twice of doing it by at least showing you're willing to make a read like that will help you enormously in this MU. G&W doesn't like to be uaired, especially with farts killing him at the percentages they do.
If you have a lead, you are in a stupidly good position since G&W's approach game on Wario is trash. Once you have a stock lead, his non-killing nairs, bairs and upbs suddenly lose all their value while every bit of damage you manage to get in means quite a lot.
G&W's killing potential in this MU is a bit sad, he shouldn't be able to get kills with anything but fair (requiring a read), dair (requiring you to mess up) or smashes (which require a hard read). Messing up and getting hit by dair is something that can easily happen though, it's hard to beat it out with uair, especially since its fall speed differs. Damage ranges you have to keep track of:
Starting from ~80%: sweetspot smashes (avoidable)
Starting from something like 140-160%, depending on position: fair and sourspot dsmash
Starting from 160%: low dairs
Recover high, no point in recovering low.
Ftilt is situational but beats or clashes with pretty much everything he has, correctly spaced. That correct spacing requires a lot of practice and experience though.
Jab > fsmash guaranteed at like, the perfect percentages (100 or so). Nair > grab guaranteed at 0, nair > fsmash isn't.
Plenty of fart opportunities in this matchup, some situational some near-guaranteed:
- You can practically SDI bair and fart him.
- Edgehog his upB, fart him when he gets the landing animation he gets when he lands during the apex of his upB.
- Dthrowing him off-stage and farting is... well not really guaranteed. He has very few options though, none of them being too practical (or fast enough). For him, airdodging, upBing or uairing are really his best options. In my experience, it works often enough but it's kinda gimmicky, use to your own liking.
- Reading an upB not only nets you an uair but can also get you a fart.
- Offstage pressure if he doesn't recover high or low enough (read: if he messes up recovering).
- Camp the **** out of him if you have a lead and punish random desperate fairs he throws out trying to kill you
Nair is broken in this MU. Also, you fly over his dsmash SH nairing, hitting his head and beating the attack out.
When on the ledge, you have no reason to ever do anything other than ledgejumping if you actually plan on getting back on-stage. Ledgehop airdodge or something to annoy him is fairly safe.
When he is on the ledge, don't start jumping or stuff. Just wait for him to do something and proceed to exploit the bad situation he'll inevitably get himself into.
If spaced correctly, you can't shieldgrab or nair OoS his dair.
Gimmicky: If he like to usmash > dtilt on your shield, you can really beat it with jab or fsmash if the usmash wasn't spaced well.
Fthrow > uthrow.
Teching dthrow means he can never get something stronger than dash attack or grab (or lol2hitsofbair).
Too lazy for more, want to get back to chatting and gaming.
The thing with G&W is that he has a lot of stuff to beat you out, and will frequently do just that. What nacks him is the fact that even if he hits you, he won't necessarily get funny follow-ups unless you're at low percentages.
Low percentages netting him stuff like nair > nair > lololol uair stuff which may or may not nack you your DJ and blah, requires him to get certain reads to fully utilize your position but getting racked to say, 40% from 0 isn't that rare. Those situations are fully avoidable, too.
What you don't want to be doing is committing to vertical approaches too often. He'll practically beat those out most of the time by just SH nairing, which is his main spacing tool in this matchup. Aside of beating out vertical approaches, it also beats shield approaches if spaced correctly. Shield approach is pretty much completely safe in this matchup, and will often net you a certain amount of zoning, and rarely more than that.
Commit to shield approaching too much, and it gets baired. Bair on your shield is unpunishable, don't try to nair OoS chase him or anything like that, he can practically just walk away and don't really be bothered by your reaction.
Back to nair, simple SH fairs and bairs will beat it out. It's a bit of a silly rock-paper-scissors, in which neither player will really be able to commit to high-risk, high-reward stuff. G&W can sort of wall, but it never really nets him zoning. His 'walling' consists of actually just random usmashes and dtilts, which are fairly safe for him to do. Really, if he just charges an usmash a bit away from you, the only thing you'll really be able to do is slowly walk up to him and perfectly time a ftilt. It's a rather annoying situation, obviously hitting the thing nets you 14% (or a kill), but a slight mistiming kills you in a fairly silly manner.
Dtilt is more easily punishable, dash shield beats it unless it's perfectly spaced. If he doesn't get to perfectly space it, you can either shieldgrab it or shielddrop fsmash/jab.
Random gimmick: if G&W uairs your Bike, whether you threw it or he did, it becomes his projectile and flies pretty damn high.
UpB also beats your vertical approaches, and you really need to read it in order to effectively punish it with uair, it's really his best escaping tool, getting him to think twice of doing it by at least showing you're willing to make a read like that will help you enormously in this MU. G&W doesn't like to be uaired, especially with farts killing him at the percentages they do.
If you have a lead, you are in a stupidly good position since G&W's approach game on Wario is trash. Once you have a stock lead, his non-killing nairs, bairs and upbs suddenly lose all their value while every bit of damage you manage to get in means quite a lot.
G&W's killing potential in this MU is a bit sad, he shouldn't be able to get kills with anything but fair (requiring a read), dair (requiring you to mess up) or smashes (which require a hard read). Messing up and getting hit by dair is something that can easily happen though, it's hard to beat it out with uair, especially since its fall speed differs. Damage ranges you have to keep track of:
Starting from ~80%: sweetspot smashes (avoidable)
Starting from something like 140-160%, depending on position: fair and sourspot dsmash
Starting from 160%: low dairs
Recover high, no point in recovering low.
Ftilt is situational but beats or clashes with pretty much everything he has, correctly spaced. That correct spacing requires a lot of practice and experience though.
Jab > fsmash guaranteed at like, the perfect percentages (100 or so). Nair > grab guaranteed at 0, nair > fsmash isn't.
Plenty of fart opportunities in this matchup, some situational some near-guaranteed:
- You can practically SDI bair and fart him.
- Edgehog his upB, fart him when he gets the landing animation he gets when he lands during the apex of his upB.
- Dthrowing him off-stage and farting is... well not really guaranteed. He has very few options though, none of them being too practical (or fast enough). For him, airdodging, upBing or uairing are really his best options. In my experience, it works often enough but it's kinda gimmicky, use to your own liking.
- Reading an upB not only nets you an uair but can also get you a fart.
- Offstage pressure if he doesn't recover high or low enough (read: if he messes up recovering).
- Camp the **** out of him if you have a lead and punish random desperate fairs he throws out trying to kill you
Nair is broken in this MU. Also, you fly over his dsmash SH nairing, hitting his head and beating the attack out.
When on the ledge, you have no reason to ever do anything other than ledgejumping if you actually plan on getting back on-stage. Ledgehop airdodge or something to annoy him is fairly safe.
When he is on the ledge, don't start jumping or stuff. Just wait for him to do something and proceed to exploit the bad situation he'll inevitably get himself into.
If spaced correctly, you can't shieldgrab or nair OoS his dair.
Gimmicky: If he like to usmash > dtilt on your shield, you can really beat it with jab or fsmash if the usmash wasn't spaced well.
Fthrow > uthrow.
Teching dthrow means he can never get something stronger than dash attack or grab (or lol2hitsofbair).
Too lazy for more, want to get back to chatting and gaming.
utilt goes through the key? HAX
@CXDerp you dont need to learn D3 to be able to beat a Wario that doesnt know the matchup. just fish for grabs. If your opponent knows the D3 matchup, then stick with toon link and camp as much as you can. I dont think Wario can beat bair with anything and arrows can be very annoying... stick to your main though.
@CXDerp you dont need to learn D3 to be able to beat a Wario that doesnt know the matchup. just fish for grabs. If your opponent knows the D3 matchup, then stick with toon link and camp as much as you can. I dont think Wario can beat bair with anything and arrows can be very annoying... stick to your main though.
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,065
Whoa nice post LC :O
A really funny "combo" I found against G&W is Dthrow to Utilt. Definitely not a true combo, but lot's of G&W players Key right over you when they get Dthrown, and Utilt's startup lag makes it so it has a great chance of just going through the key! Haha tooo good, just a small read is all it is.
A really funny "combo" I found against G&W is Dthrow to Utilt. Definitely not a true combo, but lot's of G&W players Key right over you when they get Dthrown, and Utilt's startup lag makes it so it has a great chance of just going through the key! Haha tooo good, just a small read is all it is.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
Dunno, only the strong hit of utilt actually beats dairs. The later frames trade hits. Kinda silly timing for something inferior
Lord Chair
Smash Master
I must say I can't think of any dair it doesn't beat.
Ike's D-Air, too. Probably Link's.
Charizard's, for sure. Ivysaur's, for sure.
Charizard's, for sure. Ivysaur's, for sure.
SupaSairentoZ7℠
Smash Hero
I'm fairly convinced that dtilt is a useless move at high level play.
dash attack is just as useless, except for Dacus and hitting people off the ledge.
utilt doesnt beat Link's, Tink's(not sure), MK's, Marth's, Ivy's, Ike's, not quite sure if it beats Snake's due to his magic legs and arms... doesnt beat Lucario's either.
dash attack is just as useless, except for Dacus and hitting people off the ledge.
utilt doesnt beat Link's, Tink's(not sure), MK's, Marth's, Ivy's, Ike's, not quite sure if it beats Snake's due to his magic legs and arms... doesnt beat Lucario's either.
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,065
Agreed, dtilt is great! It's just situational. The only times I use it are...
A. Comboing someone off the ledge (basically guaranteed jab to dtilt, dtilt even reaches below the ledge a little bit!
B. Maybe breaking the bike sometimes. Fast, so you can get a few move refreshes in if you have a second to spare.
3. Jab -> dtilt is tooo good even on stage xD
A. Comboing someone off the ledge (basically guaranteed jab to dtilt, dtilt even reaches below the ledge a little bit!
B. Maybe breaking the bike sometimes. Fast, so you can get a few move refreshes in if you have a second to spare.
3. Jab -> dtilt is tooo good even on stage xD
SupaSairentoZ7℠
Smash Hero
Haha I combo like that too.XD
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,065
uuhh don't think I've ever gotten faired after I've dtilted someone! I say "great", because it's good to be positive
it's situational and has it's uses, I wouldn't trade it for anything!Did you know you can dthrow to buffered dtilt against Snake? Now that's what I call useful! Dtilt also clashes with Snake's Ftilt and Utilt, so if you mess up the dthrow to bDtilt then you are really quite safe
(if you dtilt and don't turn around I mean)it also works against d3uuhh don't think I've ever gotten faired after I've dtilted someone! I say "great", because it's good to be positive
Did you know you can dthrow to buffered dtilt against Snake? Now that's what I call useful! Dtilt also clashes with Snake's Ftilt and Utilt, so if you mess up the dthrow to bDtilt then you are really quite safe
SupaSairentoZ7℠
Smash Hero
Do Wario main's suggest Wario's Bite attack while in the air being used as an edge guard tactic?