Wario Q&A Thread

[B.Mack]

Airdodging through tornado: a GREAT idea

sarcasm?

 

[Lord Chair]

Not using DJ at all is about as terrible a commitment as using it all the time.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[Lord Chair]

Don't use your double jump then... if you watch closely, Wario even throws both his hands up in the air after he's falling from a double jump. Even Wario knows he's helpless lol

I didn't know how else to interpret it. I'm saying that if you DJ, you are open to being nadoed. You supposedly counter it by saying 'don't DJ then'. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense all things considered.

What do you mean?

 

[B.Mack]

I never DJ unless I'm using it to escape something or if DJ-ing will guarantee me a hit. If I wanna get above the opponent for a fastfalled dair, I use bike jump.
DJ is one of Wario's best tools, why would you throw out your trump card right at the beginning?

if you save your DJ and space sensibly, you should never get hit by nado.

not sure if Chair read this ^^

 

[Pwneroni]

Moral of the story: get really good at SDI'ing the tornado and dj to your heart's content.

 

[toobusytocare]

nado is pretty easy to avoid/punish as wario

at least more so than most of the cast

 

[Kaffei]

Why is Wario so good

 

[Pwneroni]

Why Wario is tooooo good xD

 

[Kaffei]

LMAO @ that vid
I never understood how it worked. My friend & I tried to do it over and over we couldn't get it to work lolz

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[DMG]

Moral of the story: get really good at SDI'ing the tornado and dj to your heart's content.

You cannot SDI Tornado. The game simply will not allow this. You "pop" out of Tornado because of how the Tornado hitboxes work:

Have you ever noticed people who get hit near the top corners of Tornado seem "stuck" in it? That's because they are. When you Tornado people, they basically get stuck where they are, and are repositioned by Tornado as it draws them in. If Tornado draws you into the lower center, it hits you upwards at a rate usually equal or faster than you can rise with Tornado. This is how people escape.


Another example that you may be more familiar with: do you notice any differences between using Tornado to trap people who are falling from the air, and using Tornado to "sweep" people who are on the ground? Say Diddy for example: one scenario he is falling from the sky into Nado. The other, he is on the ground (maybe shielding, maybe just didn't react quick enough) and gets swept by a MK tornado.


Think about where Diddy is positioned when the move hits in each scenario. The first he is above MK, the second he is below closer to the lowest parts of Tornado.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcR8p7Ho_GI&feature=player_detailpage#t=153s

Notice how Tornado catches Diddy in the Middle Section, and he doesn't drop into the bottom of Tornado? Notice M2K is not rising or falling a great deal?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcR8p7Ho_GI&feature=player_detailpage#t=181s

Notice how M2K hits with the bottom portion of Tornado, and ADHD pops up into the air? If you look closely, you see the first hit pop ADHD up quite high, with a second hit right in the top right corner that drags him back towards M2K a bit, and then a noticeable gap before M2K rises with Tornado and then traps him in the conventional sense.


When people escape from Tornado, it's 1 of two things:

1. MK tornadoes, you get hit by the lower hitboxes that pop the character up, WHALA you are popped up.

2. MK hits you with an upper part of Tornado and traps you there, but then soon noticeably drops/falls before the move ends. This lets you escape Tornado with a footstool, airdodge, quick aerial, Invincible move, etc


So yeah... in short, SDI doesn't work and getting out of Tornado is ENTIRELY based on where MK is positioned.

nado is pretty easy to avoid/punish as wario

at least more so than most of the cast

Compared to most of the cast, yes. But it's a very limiting move for Wario to deal with. Tornado, along with Shuttle Loop, are the 2 single most potentially limiting moves for Wario to deal with when subtly threatened. His pokes and ranged walls are something you normally factor in: Ok Im at a safe distance to avoid Fair, Im not gonna get ***** by Dtilt, etc. But by defending yourself against THAT, you open yourself up to the world of "Hello Random Shuttle Loop" and "Hi Tornado after I DJ"

Why is Wario so good

Depends. He's one of the most dynamic characters in the game: versatility is his strength. By that, Im not talking about mixups, but rather he's one of the few characters who can handle most situations with multiple successful/safe responses.

 

[DeLux]

A bunch of stuff on tornado

Just to clarify DMG:

You actually can SDI the first and last hit of Tornado. After the first hit, Nado does a hitbox every 5 frames for the duration of the move. These hitboxes can't be SDI'd. The last one can also be SDI'd, but it has a certain amount of knockback that makes it less likely for you to punish after getting hit by it in terms of frame advantage.

Since the hitboxes "draw one in", your best bet theoretically would be to attempt to SDI up and threw the nado on the first hit box, at which point you're free to do all of your dair, footstool, waft, shenanigans.

If you're hit by the second hitbox, you are more than likely screwed and are going to get hit by the last hitbox unless the MK misspaces/directs the nado.

All of which means that it's possible to punish the nado with SDI, just not very practical. However, if there were a character that was designed to do it, I suspect it would be one with faster air acceleration or fastfall. Wario fits one of those criteria.

 

[DMG]

^^^ When you say first hit, are you talking about the very first hitbox of MK tornado period, or the first hitbox that comes by and hits your character? If it's the former, that obviously won't come into play much. If it's the latter, that's interesting. Does this apply to anywhere located on Tornado, or just on the lower parts? Do you know how many frames you are given to input SDI for that hit/approximately how far you could SDI that hitbox?

The last hit yeah you can SDI it, but I didn't talk about that for reasons you outlined above.

 

[DeLux]

The first hitbox is a constant hitbox until it makes contact with something, whether it's shield or hurtbox. So there is a constant hitbox out on Nado until it makes contact, which constitutes the first hit box. So it is closest to the latter situation. And it should apply to all 3 hitbox areas of the nado.

I can frame test it, but if I recall correctly it's 3 frames. I'll double check that at some point. I'm not sure exactly how far one would be able to SDI, but assuming a QCDI input diagnolly + a cstick input up in that time frame, you SHOULD be able to SDI far enough to atleast be able to spam DJ/footstool

 

[DMG]

Sounds about right. Didn't know the first hitbox was constant til impact, that would explain though why people would appear to pop up out of Tornado from the first contact regardless of where Tornado was duration wise, while people who had already been hit were stuck in it.

Well folks, there you have it. SDI the first hitbox if you can, if not buckle up and enjoy the whirl.

 

[Padô]

And don't drop your shield because you will get sucked in and you'll have nothing to do about it since it's first hitbox s constant until it contacts with something.

Now that's why we get stuck on it by getting hit after an incorrect shielddrop.

 

[Pwneroni]

Heh heh, I should've elaborated because yeah, the first hit is the best one to SDI... First hit meaning the first one that hits you. I never thought to footstool or dair though, I have farted out of escaping a tornado before! Now that's what I call **** haha. Usually I just mash on airdodge, so when I SDI out I just airdodge, then fall back in.

Now I'm confused when y'all say that you can't SDI the hits of tornado after the initial one, and the final one. I was under the impression that your SDI was just more limited, as is with Shiek's Ftilt. When I SDI and airdodge, I SDI again after I fall back in and immediately pop out of the vortex again. Is this the final hitbox I'm encountering?

For example, I've found that if you SDI like mad while in the tornado, you can actually pop out before it finishes. However, you really just fall back in since the SDI is reduced; you don't pop out like you would if you had SDI'ed the first hit. Maybe you could double jump if you do it this way, Wario's double jump is 1 frame am I correct? Or perhaps that's not even fast enough to escape this way. Only testing will tell.

 

[DeLux]

Nado's hitboxes all have knockback towards the center. They make a V shape on the MK. So if you're escaping early, it means that either you're pushed into the empty section of the V shape, or the MK screwed up and misspaced/directed the nado. That's not SDI because the middle hitboxes of the nado have no hit lag.

You can Double jump. However, you could also lose your DJ if you get hit again after it's used.

That's assuming my sources are correct. I haven't gone through and tested it myself.

If you DO intend to SDI, your best bet would be probably to at least attempt to air dodge through the nado, and THEN at the conclusion of SDI, premptively start SDIing motions up if you see you're going to be hit. Since your air dodge has a constant timing for when it ends, you're more likely to maximize your SDI potential than if you let the MK control timing and spacing.

Aren't you guys glad I decided to join the team?

 

[Pwneroni]

More helpful than you know Lux, thank you very much and your help is appreciated!

 

[Kaffei]

Very interesting, Lux. I didn't know that Tornado's hitboxes were constant only up until contact. I thought they were ALWAYS constant even when hitting something.

 

[DeLux]

Yeah, if it were always hitting something, the SDI ability would be ridiculous lol

I was wrong, it's every 6 frames a new hitbox is produced. However, if I do my math right, on the initial hit, you guys ought to have 9 frames to make an action from a perfect shield.

Power shield Frame > 3 Frames of hit lag > 6 Frame of hit box

this is supported by the fact that I've gotten Ice Climbers to DSG through nado.

The hitbox on dash grab is 8 frames. So it's definitely at least 8 lol. The PSC video is wrong.

I'm really tempted to get my Wii out and actually test.

 

[B.Mack]

if it's 8 frames then we can PSC fsmash. not that we needed PSC to be able to fsmash anyway (super armor ftw)

 

[Padô]

if it's 8 frames then we can PSC fsmash. not that we needed PSC to be able to fsmash anyway (super armor ftw)

Just fart this **** up;

 

[B.Mack]

I f***ing LOVE this character.

 

[Dynomite]

I f***ing LOVE this character.

This isnt a question

BAN HIM ZIGSTA!!

 

[Zigsta]

Keep it to the social threads, fellas.

Rawr.

 

[B.Mack]

Does anyone love Wario as much as I do?

^this is a question.

 

[Pwneroni]

I love Wario sooooo much haha. I was just at the BEST tournament this weekend: Gameclucks January up in Lynnwood, WA. It was soooo much fun! I got some great matches recorded, and did really well in bracket too! It was really fun because the only people I really practice with are my roommates (Super Smash Tw1ns t1mmy an t0mmy), so I like never get combos on them. Their DI is toooo good haha. Everyone in WA is used to toobusytocare and Komodo Joe's Wario, campy Warios! I gave them a reeeeal good taste of my Aggro style that sent them reeling!

 

[Dynomite]

Does anyone love Wario as much as I do?

^this is a question.

I love all my fellow wario.

Lets snuggle by a warm fireplace.

 

[B.Mack]

I got warned by Zigsta...

*snuggles*

... no homo.

Pwneroni how did you place?

 

[Pwneroni]

I got 9th place lol. Not too great of a placing, but I beat toobusytocare's ICs in bracket (one of my goals), and took a match off Jem in winners. Fricken awesome! Plus I got tons of awesome money matches and combos recorded! I left my SD card up in WA, but I have Canada's SD card which has a bunch of my matches on it haha.

 

[Dynomite]

sounds like a great tourney. How many entrants?

 

[Pwneroni]

32 entrants. A nice round number haha. It was awesome because BC Canada came down, and Oregon came up to meet in the middle. A great tournament with lots of different regions attending always an awesome thing to have!

Oh and I have a question: what are some more ATs with Wario? I'm trying to think of some I haven't done already in my AT thread. Bike 360s and Zibbling are the only ones I can think of atm, but are there any useful ones that don't involve tires? xD

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[Pwneroni]

Haha been living with them since September xD they are so awesome dude!

The best part about Gameclucks was probably me doing Bike 360s and loops in my money matches and tournament matches lololol xD shoutouts to Kyle0Li for teaching me bike tricks!

 

[Pwneroni]

Oh and check out the AT thread.

 

[DeLux]

I will be using only Wario in a $20 money match. Does this qualify me to make the cut as a true Wario main?

(I'm in it for the money)

 

[Pwneroni]

No haha, it means you'll be using him in a $20 MM xD

 

[Dynomite]

I will be using only Wario in a $20 money match. Does this qualify me to make the cut as a true Wario main?

(I'm in it for the money)

No, you must go through a sacred ritual. The only way you can be a true Wario main is if you get bitten in real life by another Wario main.

No haha, it means you'll be using him in a $20 MM xD

^ THIS LOL