Kaffei
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 7,048
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjFQtAubet4
PSC to fart?
PSC to fart?
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Wario Q&A Thread
- Thread starter ssbbFICTION
- Start date
PieDisliker
Smash Lord
Exactly what I was wondering. We should start testing this.
Maybe we should make a thread for what we can PSC.
Edit: I believe it needs to be frame 6 or lower. Imma check the Wario guide, actually.
Edit2: From what I've read we can PSC dtilt, upB, and half-waft (has to be half-waft).
Lord Chair
Smash Master
Didn't it have to be like, 2 frames in order for anything to PSC the nado?
Dynomite
Smash Champion
Moves that i thought had the most potential of punishing:
Dash attack [hits on frame 4]
Dash attack>upsmash (dacus but not the lengthy one, the one where dash attack actually hits)
Dtilt [hits on frame 5]
up B [hits on frame 6]
Grab [hits on frame 6]
Fart 58-1:51 [hits on frame 5]
Fart (FULL) [Invinci frame 5-10 hits on frame 9]
NOTE: I did not include airials because jump comes out on frame 7 but if you are somehow able to use an airial to punish nado out of PSC (i dont see a way since you have to be on the ground to shield)
Nair [hits on frame 4]
Fair [ hits on frame 5]
Dash attack [hits on frame 4]
Dash attack>upsmash (dacus but not the lengthy one, the one where dash attack actually hits)
Dtilt [hits on frame 5]
up B [hits on frame 6]
Grab [hits on frame 6]
Fart 58-1:51 [hits on frame 5]
Fart (FULL) [Invinci frame 5-10 hits on frame 9]
NOTE: I did not include airials because jump comes out on frame 7 but if you are somehow able to use an airial to punish nado out of PSC (i dont see a way since you have to be on the ground to shield)
Nair [hits on frame 4]
Fair [ hits on frame 5]
PieDisliker
Smash Lord
I believe it only has to be 6 frames. Edit, lol... didn't see the next page.
Edit2: I see Krystedez here, maybe we can get some tire PSC thoughts. xD
Edit2: I see Krystedez here, maybe we can get some tire PSC thoughts. xD
Lord Chair
Smash Master
You could probably platform drop nair and fair...
and platform drop Z drop.
........ :D
and platform drop Z drop.
........ :D
More than 6. Assuming you are throwing forward.
PSC isn't new. It's basically finding the fastest way to execute an attack out of a PS. If you can PS normally and have fast reflexes, it's the same thing.
With that said, assuming you were frame perfect, I believe you have something like a 6-7 frame advantage. Grabbing him out of PS looks like you trade blows and grab armor kicks in. Fart might not work, if you cannot cancel the crouch animation through buffering. You have no/incredibly small buffer window available that humanly won't allow you to buffer and cancel the crouch into full Down B.
If there is a way to do so with no buffer needed, then it's quite possible to be able to PS into Fart completely guaranteed. I want to say it's possible because Im pretty sure I have been able to PS Fsmash it before.
PSC isn't new. It's basically finding the fastest way to execute an attack out of a PS. If you can PS normally and have fast reflexes, it's the same thing.
With that said, assuming you were frame perfect, I believe you have something like a 6-7 frame advantage. Grabbing him out of PS looks like you trade blows and grab armor kicks in. Fart might not work, if you cannot cancel the crouch animation through buffering. You have no/incredibly small buffer window available that humanly won't allow you to buffer and cancel the crouch into full Down B.
If there is a way to do so with no buffer needed, then it's quite possible to be able to PS into Fart completely guaranteed. I want to say it's possible because Im pretty sure I have been able to PS Fsmash it before.
PieDisliker
Smash Lord
Sheilding while crouching has no effect on PSC, I presume?
So far I've only been able to actually practice this online. And then I haven't even been able to do it but my friend can grab and upB as Wario. So, it seems like those are the easiest. If we really can't fart then it'll still be useful for grabbing and if you wanna risk it, upB.
It seems that upB didn't hit with all of it's hits and one time it only hit once. The lag from the fall may have been enough to be punished. Not sure.
Grab seems to be our best solution out of this.
So far I've only been able to actually practice this online. And then I haven't even been able to do it but my friend can grab and upB as Wario. So, it seems like those are the easiest. If we really can't fart then it'll still be useful for grabbing and if you wanna risk it, upB.
It seems that upB didn't hit with all of it's hits and one time it only hit once. The lag from the fall may have been enough to be punished. Not sure.
Grab seems to be our best solution out of this.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
You can fart without crouching the same way you can dtilt without crouching.
PieDisliker
Smash Lord
Haven't tested aerial nados. I got tired and bored of testing online, lol. I think I tested for about 30 mins, maybe more.
Grab is easiest because all you have to do it perfect sheild and press A while holding the sheild button down. Too bad I still haven't gotten it. :l
I have been able to punish drill, however.
Grab is easiest because all you have to do it perfect sheild and press A while holding the sheild button down. Too bad I still haven't gotten it. :l
I have been able to punish drill, however.
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,065
It would be soo legit to do perfect shield -> platform drop oos (1 frame) -> 99.999% charged Smartfart! It comes out to like 5 or 6 frames, so it IS possible! HOW AWESOME WOULD THAT BE!!!
Oh and I've been exploring more with tires and tire combos. A really tight thing to do is Nair (pick up tire) ->hit with both hits of Nair -> tire dthrow glide toss reverse Fsmash. SO COOL LOOKING!! xD The Dthrow glide toss has pretty strict timing, but it ain't no Street Fighter 4 so it's actually possible.
Oh and I've been exploring more with tires and tire combos. A really tight thing to do is Nair (pick up tire) ->hit with both hits of Nair -> tire dthrow glide toss reverse Fsmash. SO COOL LOOKING!! xD The Dthrow glide toss has pretty strict timing, but it ain't no Street Fighter 4 so it's actually possible.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
Isn't that sorta standard.
slikvik
Smash Master
No, my friend was the one who actually discovered the psc. He says 6 frames during the first half of the tornado and 10 frames near the the end of the tornado. This is why during the video you can see some characters not power-shielding and punishing the tornado after a couple seconds
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,065
Sorta standard? I have never seen anyone do it, but hopefully it will be the standard soon
If Nair can lead into a grab, then this should work!
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
PX swears nair is Wario's best aerial.
He's coming over in a few weekends.
He's coming over in a few weekends.
Padô
Smash Lord
Airdodge is Wario's best aerial lolPX swears nair is Wario's best aerial.
He's coming over in a few weekends.
NAir and UAir are tied on 2nd place IMO.
Guys, I'm starting to STOP striking FD against DDDs and now I'm striking YI instead. TBH I'm finding FD one of the best stages to play against DDD, it might seem kinda crazy but I'm kinda convincing myself that the platforms are a better defensive tool for DDD than it is for us.
I just wanna share this with you guys to see what do you think, I could easily talk a lot about it since so many of the Warios got difficulties playing DDDs
i would prefer FD to Yoshis even against DDD, bcos you can aircamp his *** sooo hard on that stage. just remember that all dair bombs must be landed behind D3 and you should never ever shield. just keep approaching him from the top, and we have a chance.
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,065
The thing you have to worry about on FD is your positioning on the level. The ideal position you want to be in is with your back to the outside of the level, near the edge. Avoid bad positioning, because if you get grabbed across the entire level to grab release Usmash, it's literally a ~50% true combo.
toobusytocare
Smash Lord
like wario even has problems with tornado.... <__<
Lord Chair
Smash Master
I have yet to understand why people think Wario has his double jump available 100% of the time and is therefore always able to counter nado, while 90% of you guys have the same repetitive FH DJ pattern because you figure that being in the air is always, 100% of the time a good thing against MK.
Worse yet, I have yet to understand how the MKs you guys play against don't completely exploit those habits.
With nado.
Worse yet, I have yet to understand how the MKs you guys play against don't completely exploit those habits.
With nado.
I never DJ unless I'm using it to escape something or if DJ-ing will guarantee me a hit. If I wanna get above the opponent for a fastfalled dair, I use bike jump.
DJ is one of Wario's best tools, why would you throw out your trump card right at the beginning?
if you save your DJ and space sensibly, you should never get hit by nado.
DJ is one of Wario's best tools, why would you throw out your trump card right at the beginning?
if you save your DJ and space sensibly, you should never get hit by nado.
ZSS armor pieces?...
Subscribing to this thread so I can keep up with Wario stuffz since I've been playing him a lot lately.
I'll go ahead and ask a question: what are Wario's best ways of baiting people, and how do you punish?
Krystedez
Awaken the Path
double posted...
Krystedez
Awaken the Path
Bait: Jump around their head, footstool them, make funny noises (j/k), use tire-drops to bait them to grab the tire or shield it, throw the bike up...
best punishes are grabs, dair-strings (careful which way you go, they can DI out of it easily if they guess right), nair setups to other things from a punish, and then if they're anywhere near kill percents use fsmash to punish. Dont use it to punish at early percents too much. Also, best way to punish is to read an air dodge, roll, or laggy attack from a bait you made and fart for the win.
This is all I usually do.
best punishes are grabs, dair-strings (careful which way you go, they can DI out of it easily if they guess right), nair setups to other things from a punish, and then if they're anywhere near kill percents use fsmash to punish. Dont use it to punish at early percents too much. Also, best way to punish is to read an air dodge, roll, or laggy attack from a bait you made and fart for the win.
This is all I usually do.
What baron said, plus, you're not really going to be hit by nado ever if you're above it. Simply footstool the center, or use your broken air-dodge and get the hell away + shield. If you're that close, you should usually just footstool or dair them.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
In that case, I'd have to wonder why the MKs you guys play don't space their nado correctly.
DMG get in here.
DMG get in here.
nado cant follow Wario's double jump well enough. and airdodge will ALWAYS ALWAYS **** nado. if MK doesnt land it instantly, Wario can just airdodge and due to Wario's fall speed + the fact that nado doesnt lose altitude, MK cant chase you. free punish on MK's landing.
please Chair, supply a video or something which demonstrates this "nado spacing" you speak of. I dont see any possible way that nado can beat airdodge. especially considering that we can airdodge through it or away from it.
please Chair, supply a video or something which demonstrates this "nado spacing" you speak of. I dont see any possible way that nado can beat airdodge. especially considering that we can airdodge through it or away from it.
Blue Rogue
Smash Ace
How are you landing after an AD without getting hit?
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,065
Whoa you can footstool the center of the nado? :O looks like I'm late to the footstool party haha.
What do yall think of this string of hits?
(tire catch) Nair -> 2nd hit of Nair to footstool -> dthrow tire onto their head -> ff Nair, hit with 2nd hit -> grab -> Fthrow
Heh heh. Oh and I have come across a great way to use tires near the ledge. You know how Falco can fall off the ledge, double jump back on and shoot 2 lasers? If you mirror that technique with a tire in your hand, you can fthrow it and then Nair immediately, scoring 2 really quick hits in a row. If they shield, you can bite their shield after the tire disappears on it I got some siiiick combos the other day using this maneuver. Whoa what should it be called? Hmmmm... I dub this technique Falco Flipping. Tooo good xD
What do yall think of this string of hits?
(tire catch) Nair -> 2nd hit of Nair to footstool -> dthrow tire onto their head -> ff Nair, hit with 2nd hit -> grab -> Fthrow
Heh heh. Oh and I have come across a great way to use tires near the ledge. You know how Falco can fall off the ledge, double jump back on and shoot 2 lasers? If you mirror that technique with a tire in your hand, you can fthrow it and then Nair immediately, scoring 2 really quick hits in a row. If they shield, you can bite their shield after the tire disappears on it
I got some siiiick combos the other day using this maneuver. Whoa what should it be called? Hmmmm... I dub this technique Falco Flipping. Tooo good xD
Lord Chair
Smash Master
Kinda what BR says, there's this thing called landing frames. We don't move faster than nado (we really don't) so airdodging through it is a no-no.
DJing in the MU is only useful either when you actually make a good read/bait, or when you have to escape pressure (like nado).
Dair/footstool is only possible when you hit the CENTER of the nado. The sides of the nado are pure hitbox, and dairing (or trying to footstool them) serves no purpose. What is this nado spacing I'm talking about? Well, go figure. It means getting zoned out, forced to use your DJ and being nadoed when you're just about 2-3 Warios above the stage. You can Bike away, but that's only another resource depleted and it doesn't net you a punish, since it takes too much time to use it, jump off it and actually fall back down to the height you were at before the whole ordeal took place.
Farting nado is equally impossible when it's spaced well.
DJing in the MU is only useful either when you actually make a good read/bait, or when you have to escape pressure (like nado).
Dair/footstool is only possible when you hit the CENTER of the nado. The sides of the nado are pure hitbox, and dairing (or trying to footstool them) serves no purpose. What is this nado spacing I'm talking about? Well, go figure. It means getting zoned out, forced to use your DJ and being nadoed when you're just about 2-3 Warios above the stage. You can Bike away, but that's only another resource depleted and it doesn't net you a punish, since it takes too much time to use it, jump off it and actually fall back down to the height you were at before the whole ordeal took place.
Farting nado is equally impossible when it's spaced well.
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,065
Agreed, if Nado is used intelligently then it's really tough to work against. My good friend t1mmy said that he would just wait for me to use my double jump, then tornado from below.
Just get really good at SDI'ing the nado's first hits. If you are able to do that consistently, you can pretty much shut the nado down. It's possible to only take 3% from a full nado, and punish afterwards with adequate SDI.
Oh and the Waft can definitely hit the nado from the side. I've killed MK with a Smartfart while he was in his nado, and I was like diagonally below him. It might have to be frame perfect though haha, because it was really tight spacing.
Just get really good at SDI'ing the nado's first hits. If you are able to do that consistently, you can pretty much shut the nado down. It's possible to only take 3% from a full nado, and punish afterwards with adequate SDI.
Oh and the Waft can definitely hit the nado from the side. I've killed MK with a Smartfart while he was in his nado, and I was like diagonally below him. It might have to be frame perfect though haha, because it was really tight spacing.
nado has to catch you right at the end of your airdodge, or else you fall too low to be hit by it. nado doesnt lose altitude. airdodge does. sure, nado moves faster, but its about airdodge escaping the positions where it'd normally hit.