[WA] Perth Smash Thread

[Pete278]

Lol at Captain Falcon being second worst in the game. Jupz' tier whoring has desensitized him to the low tiers.

 

[Ghnaschnakoff]

Yeah Diddy's dash attack is a bad move. I just need to get that into my game and I could do a lot better. Everyone that isn't a tether graber can shield grab it no problem. It is true that Diddy has good punish game but it is solely relied on by having a banana in your hand, I just think that once people actually start using bananas well against Diddy, he will lose, no problem.

Haha yeah, Falcon isn't second worst in the game. Ally beating a Diddy/MK/DDD main in a grand finals? Match ups that are supposed to be 70-30 and 80-20? It's definitely a big part due to the fact he is Ally but I have faith in Falcon. I always thought he was too fast and capable of more than the other people in **** tier.

 

[Technodeath]

yeah i agree with everyone but Jason on this Falcon thing. he's defitinly not the second worst character.

 

[Trillest]

@Andeh This is the case of pete's mk vs alzi's ivysaur, you said it yourself goodd player + bad characters > fail player + good character. Tbh i think zelda > falcon

 

[Jupz]

this ain't melee

falcon maybe better then link. i think samus and jiggs are better then him, zair and missiles are great for a low tier. jiggs is definately better because of her jumps, air mobility, good recovery. decent matchups compared to other bottom tiers lol. zelda simply has superior range, a projectile that can be used to hit people offstage, and can kill better.


Diddy's dash attack one of the best, if not the best, dash attack in the game. If you crossover while doing it it can't be shieldgrabbed.

And stop with all this "omg mks dont know the matchup and once people figure out how to beat diddy then he will go down" bs lol if you know a secret, then share it, or don't bring it into debates. thats like me saying "omg ganondorf is the best character in the game if you know how to use him properly"

i just want to hear your guys explanation of how falcon is better then samus, jiggs, and zelda, and nearly as good as Mario.​

 

[Splice]

yeah i agree with everyone but Jason on this Falcon thing. he's defitinly not the second worst character.

But he's not better than Jiggs!

 

[Technodeath]

well the BBR thinks so. so our opinions mean jack ****.

 

[Ghnaschnakoff]

Jupz, it's not just MKs that don't know the match up, it's most players. I guess I'm gonna say something Alzi like and say that you kinda have to main Diddy to know what he's capable of doing, but even then just watching ADHD shows the full capability.

It's true that Diddy dash attack is one of the best in the game but you have to admit that most dash attacks are bad and barely ever used with the exception of Snake's lol. Overall, they're good used sparingly.

With Falcon, what he has over Jiggs and Samus IMO is his speed. All three of them seem to have trouble getting kills, but Falcon seems to have a good way to set up for kills. First hit of N-air, jab-jab, grab, get them in the air, U-air them when they're off stage.

 

[Technodeath]

Ganon's Dash Attack has decent uses :D it has decent priority. helps beat out projectiles.
gets them into the air for follow ups.

but i suppose it's only good for Ganon's standards. although i dont use it that much anyway.

back on the topic of falcon. he deserved his move up. Ally makes him look too good.

 

[Jupz]

Thats true, but I still wouldn't go as far as to call it a bad move. . Its not that bad lol. Falcon has a good ground speed but jigglypuff has better air speed and air mobility and is better at gimping.

 

[Pete278]

Jupz, it's not just MKs that don't know the match up, it's most players. I guess I'm gonna say something Alzi like and say that you kinda have to main Diddy to know what he's capable of doing, but even then just watching ADHD shows the full capability.

It's true that Diddy dash attack is one of the best in the game but you have to admit that most dash attacks are bad and barely ever used with the exception of Snake's lol. Overall, they're good used sparingly.

With Falcon, what he has over Jiggs and Samus IMO is his speed. All three of them seem to have trouble getting kills, but Falcon seems to have a good way to set up for kills. First hit of N-air, jab-jab, grab, get them in the air, U-air them when they're off stage.

Don't forget flubbed knee > uair off stage. That one's always great.

 

[Alzi]

Oh yeah guys if you haven't heard i am challenging Pete for his name. My Ivy vs his Metaknight best out of 3 i believe and if i die he has to wait until i switch in Ivy again then we continue on with our match it's going to be intense.

As for the tier list here are my opinions:

Top
1- Metaknight

Should stay in top tier seriously he is insane and if you know how to actually play him properly you can make kids cry.

High A
2-Snake
3-Falco
4-Diddy Kong
5-King dedede
6-Wario
7-Marth

I believe people are only hyping diddy up because that diddy kong guy won a huge major THATS JUST ONE GUY. Corpse won rocky but you didn't see him rise in the tier list only in the Australian tournament rankings list which i think was pretty stupid that toon link even went up to first. Falco i believe should be third he does have a nice horizontal recovery and he out spaces everything in the dam game so he can just punish all approaches and he has a chain grab. Diddy kong is solid so i think he should stick to 4th for now. King dedede is a beast i mean it can punish strongly and can gimp quite easily. Wario is more of a man then marth. Marth is a girl and can only fair.

High B
8-Ice Climbers
9-Olimar
10-Game and Watch
11-Pikachu
12-Lucario

Ice Climbers arn't even that good of a character they rely on mistakes done to opponents to be able to start their gay grabbing and even then they are usless without the grab so they can only depend on the grab. Olimar is a beast. Game and watch is also a beast. Pikachu is like a roll in TvC. Lucario is good too.

Middle C
13-Zero Suit Samus
14-Toon Link
15-Pit
16-Kirby
17-Donkey Kong

ZSS is a good character not many people play her but when played right she definatly is beastly along with that quick speed of hers. Toon Link should be below her always. Pit lol pit should stay were he is. Kirby is good too. DK moved him up since he is good.

Middle D
18-R.O.B
19-Peach
20-Fox
21-Luigi
22-Wolf

R.O.B isn't all that good but yeah. Peach is a beast and cbf explaining the others.

Middle E
23-Shiek
24-Pokemon Trainer
25-Ness
26-Sonic
27-Lucas

Again cbf explaining but yeah my list is ****.

Low F
28-Bowser
29-Yoshi
30-Ike
31-Samus
32-Mario
33-Captain Falcon
34-Jigglypuff

100% correct

Low G
35-Link
36-Zelda
37-Ganondorf

This is such a sexy list by me.

 

[Marteh]

As the whole Ice Climbers thing I have to agree with Pete, even without Desynching and Chain Grabs they are very mind gamey as people are constantly avoiding being grabbed which can lead to easy punishes. Hence a reason they are up there.

 

[Technodeath]

yeah, i'll also agree.

whenever im playing against Kane i'm usually thinking "dont get grabbed" and whenever he's close i start panicking. dun like them ice climbers.

 

[Bsrk_]

Good IC will trick you into that grab_ They have to and know how to_ They have good options as mentioned below_ Pretty sure Diddy beats Falco which is why he should be above him imo_ Unsure about the Snake MU so won't comment there_ Personally i am disgusted that Shiek is below Fox, this needs to change_

 

[Alzi]

Fox is pretty legit Bob.

But then again both shiek and Fox have mad up smashes.

Rick you only lose to the ice climbers because you are thinking DON'T GET GRABBED OH **** THEY ARE CLOSE TO ME I AM IN TROUBLE. Thats why people lose and straight away think ice climbers are so dam high. Well there not.

Scabe's link is scarier then any Ice climber in the whole of Australia imo.

 

[Technodeath]

Rick you only lose to the ice climbers because you are thinking DON'T GET GRABBED OH **** THEY ARE CLOSE TO ME I AM IN TROUBLE. Thats why people lose and straight away think ice climbers are so dam high. Well there not.

i only lose to ice climbers because im inexperienced in the matchup. i've only played 2 or 3 proper matches against Kane when he's used them.

and i more or less dont think like that. mainly subconsciously imo.
i know not to get grabbed. and in my case if they're close to me i am in Trouble.
Ganon cant do much against ICs. but i'll **** well learn to do so.

Desyncs are so much better than the chaingrab

 

[Vlade]

Good IC will trick you into that grab_ They have to and know how to_ They have good options as mentioned below_ Pretty sure Diddy beats Falco which is why he should be above him imo_ Unsure about the Snake MU so won't comment there_ Personally i am disgusted that Shiek is below Fox, this needs to change_

That does not mean diddy should be above falco. I agree that diddy has a slight edge but that would be like saying luigi should be above diddy coz he ***** in that MU and clearly should not be top tier. I think Falco is better than Diddy because he simply has good options 100% of the time compared to diddy who only has good options with bananas.

I think Diddy's dash attack is bad on shield. It's only good when it hits, otherwise it's punishable. Crossovers don't work because it can still be punished i.e. the diddy will wait a bit before crossover dash attacking which gives you time to jab before he does so. You could also bair OoS with some characters like Toon Link especially. Just abuse the **** out of diddy when he has one or no bananas and you'll see what I mean when I say he gets ***** without banana control (he should take at least 50% or so lol coz his options are so limited) plus diddy's recovery is gimpable, even more gimpable than FALCO'S. My strategy against diddy: Don't get grabbed, which means he can't pull out bananas safely. Then when he tries pulling out bananas **** him (i.e. get him off stage if you can)

I still think Ice Climbers are overrated. If they don't get a grab they can't really win especially against projectile users because their desynchs just get ****ed on hence lowering their options. Sure they're mindgamey but they can't beat top-notch spacing by the opponent no matter what they try. Sure they force you to play safe which certainly limits your options, but at the same time since you're spacing so well their options are also limited i.e. they don't have a grab.

 

[MTGod]

Wow that is so old can't believe i am going to turn 17 this year i feel so old.

**** you!!! T.T

Ice Climbers and Diddy should be lower imo. DDD higher. Ice climbers require the opponent to make a mistake, whereas people will eventually learn to abuse diddy's bananas to a greater extent in the future I reckon.

LOL METAKNIGHT :D:D:D

Anyway I feel D3 should be in A Tier at least... Ice Climbers should remain in A tier because a good IC player should make one mistake = one kill (and c'mon, try and go 8 minutes without a mistake Vlade )... Diddy could be slightly lower given predictability of banana play, but still bananas are OP Diddy seems to be all about timing though, as (from watching Andy) all of his moves become muscle memory... E.g. two bananas out and it'll probably be double throw to grab, so shield -> shield -> spotdodge -> punish...

So, it seems Bowser's not the top of Low tier anymore, and Lucas takes his place as King :D Can't believe Ness is two spots higher than Lucas though, when it's basically one stock each time Ness is off the edge... I really think Lucas should be mid tier - he's got a decent recovery (average amongst the characters, happy Trill :D?? I'd say a bit above average but hey, whatevs ), decent camping options, a lot of ways to mix up play, great edgeguarding with PKT, PKF and absurd hitboxes, and a couple of approaches one of which (Nair) autocancels out of a SH... The things that are letting him down are the tether grab, most kill moves being easily punished and grab release **** IMO... Definitely he shouldn't be too much higher than he is, but I thought bottom of mid tier would be his place :D

whenever im playing against Kane i'm usually thinking "dont get grabbed" and whenever he's close i start panicking. dun like them ice climbers.

Whenever I'm against Kane I'm thinking "Go on, use Blizzard... Do it..." :D

I think Falco is better than Diddy because he simply has good options 100% of the time

Who are you and what have you done with "Falco Needs Kill Moves" Vlade!?!?!?

 

[Alzi]

Diddy kong seriously isn't all that a **** character. He throws a bannana you grab it and show your mind games.

Last time i vs'ed glenn's ice climbers i didn't have much trouble and that was ages ago so i need to vs him in proper matches with toon link to see how much my young one has improved.

But as Vlade said ice climbers are alittle overated along with diddykong.

Guys just stick with my tier list it's sexy.

And dammit if we ever do somthing low tier related i can't use Ness anymore lol. Hmm might go with the lucas.

Vlade falco needs kill moves THINK OF THE TOON LINKS.

 

[Richard7]

Diddy kong seriously isn't all that a **** character. He throws a bannana you grab it and show your mind games.

Last time i vs'ed glenn's ice climbers i didn't have much trouble and that was ages ago so i need to vs him in proper matches with toon link to see how much my young one has improved.

But as Vlade said ice climbers are alittle overated along with diddykong.

Guys just stick with my tier list it's sexy.

And dammit if we ever do somthing low tier related i can't use Ness anymore lol. Hmm might go with the lucas.

Vlade falco needs kill moves THINK OF THE TOON LINKS.

Whoa man, you have more issues than I thought you did.

 

[Technodeath]

am i missing something Richard?

i didnt really see anything wrong with what he just said

 

[_cherv_]

Ice Climbers arn't even that good of a character they rely on mistakes done to opponents to be able to start their gay grabbing and even then they are usless without the grab so they can only depend on the grab. Olimar is a beast. Game and watch is also a beast. Pikachu is like a roll in TvC. Lucario is good too.

.

hell to the no ice climbers are so much more than chain grabs
think of it i played farly well against vlade with my ics in final and not even one chaingrab

 

[Technodeath]

to me Desynching is a bigger part of their game than their grab.

 

[Alzi]

Seems like alot of people are at Marty's house.

Wonder if they hosted a side tourney of some sort hopefully they did.

 

[_cherv_]

to me Desynching is a bigger part of their game than their grab.

i completly agree

i shud be turning up tomoz at marteh's bout midayish

quote of the day CLITTERDICK!!!!

 

[Bsrk_]

Vlade i forgot to mention (although i am not too certain) if Diddy has better MU's than Falco overall including against Falco_ Although he gets ***** without bananas you can use the same mentallity as IC, that is a good player will know how to get them, how to keep them and how to use them effectively_ Of course the reverse can be said with players knowing how to counter act this playstyle as you said, stop his momentum and bananas and you kill his game_ A good match will consist of momentum shifting constantly between both players so the Diddy will have his opportunities to be as deadly as possible_

His recovery is gimpable yes but he has better options than Falco imo recovery wise_ The only reasoning i have is for Diddy having slightly better recovery options, more kill options/ setups and as far as i am aware, better matchups overall than Falco although don't quote me on the last comment_ Shouldn't this warrant him being above Falco_?

My comments are a little sketchy due to inexperience with both characters so please correct me if i am wrong_

 

[Alzi]

Andy almost beat Vlade with diddy kong last time i believe. But Vlade still pulled through. Hence Falco is a tier *****.

Falco can just sit there lasering and not approach until his opponent comes to him and if the opponent decides not too then the timer will run out and obviously falco will win the game since he would of atleast hit his opponent with the lasers a few times.

This is why toon link is so good at times since we can just camp wait for you to approach then BANG PUNISH. If you play wrong against diddy kong you get ***** pretty hard no mater who you are playing. M2K was playing so lol badly against ADHD and got ***** badly. But if you play correctly against diddy kong he gets ***** pretty badly and you just hear him screaming **** i need to pull out my banana's but every time i do he just mind games me and grabs them. But with falco if you play correctly against it's still going to be tough fighting it.

Samuel plays so perfect against Vlade but it still is hard for him to win the end of each match.

If all diddy kongs start to enter tournaments without using banana's watch them fail badly diddy kong then becomes middle tier without his banana's.

Theres only like one pro ice climber player and it's lain and it's more he makes ice climbers look so dam good but it's actually the player. Same with Samuel. Toon Link isn't a really good character but samuel is just one of those guys who **** so hard.

To be a good brawl player you must be able to play diffrent characters at a good level atleast.

 

[EverAlert]

HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG.

You all know nothing about Ice Climbers.

Alzi, you HAVE to be trolling, nobody can possibly be as stupid as you're making yourself look.

 

[cHeWe]

HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG.

You all know nothing about Ice Climbers.

Alzi, you HAVE to be trolling, nobody can possibly be as stupid as you're making yourself look.

lolololololololololololololool.......yea glenn u no NOTHING about ice climbers

 

[Technodeath]

HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG.

You all know nothing about Ice Climbers.

Alzi, you HAVE to be trolling, nobody can possibly be as stupid as you're making yourself look.

i know i know nothing about Ice Climbers.

i dont go out of my way to make them look bad/good or anything like that because i know my place. i dont know jack all about them hence why i say nothing. or at least minimal amounts about them.

as for Alzi. just let him be

 

[Richard7]

If all diddy kongs start to enter tournaments without using banana's watch them fail badly diddy kong then becomes middle tier without his banana's.

I wish to challenge this. Next time I'm at a tourney I'm going to play Diddy without bananas, but not in the tournament, in friendlies.

 

[Technodeath]

I wish to challenge this. Next time I'm at a tourney I'm going to play Diddy without bananas, but not in the tournament, in friendlies.

i'll challenge you to some Ganon v Diddy goodness then.

when i'm also at another one.

 

[Jupz]

adhd post about the tier list

Diddy is indefinitely third. If I could manage to get to a level where I never **** up, he has potential to be even higher. His worst matchups, if I'm doing what I'm supposed to appear to me as only as bad as 45-55. I know snake like the back of my ****ing hand now.

Ice climbers have a handful of tough matchups, and the players are never perfect. They get obliterated by snake as well. I think diddy has a fair margin over ICs, but ICs are fourth imo. It's not hype either, diddy is staying up there.

 

[Vlade]

HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG.

You all know nothing about Ice Climbers.

Then tell us why they deserve to be top 5 (or do not). Claiming that we don't know anything just because we don't main the character doesn't make a difference.

 

[EverAlert]

Well I don't know about top 5. I was mainly referring to things said on this page. tbh I didn't really check to see why you were even discussing ICs.


Things like saying their desync game is bigger than their grab game.

If by "bigger" you mean "more important", then no, it isn't. There are a TON of matchups where desynching is ineffective or outright detrimental. Mostly item-spawning or projectile-using characters. In these cases ICs MUST rely on their natural abilities and chaingrabs, particularly chaingrabs as they are our single tool that can turn the tide of any game, even solo. There are plenty of cases where relying on desync traps will get you or Nana comboed, eg vs ROB. Whereas the performance of CGs are more or less consistent across the cast.

Although, that's not to say desynching isn't big. It is, and some matchups revolve around it (Diddy, given a couple of prerequisites) or just find it an overall more effective tactic (Ganon - he literally has nothing). Glenn is definitely right to say ICs are so much more than chaingrabs. Just saying, desynching is definitely up there, but it's not above CGs.


And then there's the stuff that Alzi says. But I think it goes without saying we should just ignore him anyway.


Also Glenn sucks with ICs, no offence but he won cause the one/two only good players ran off somewhere and his opponent became some noob MK that can't even space dair (sorry Vlade, just making a point), and even then he got lucky. Foxy's virgin ICs are better.


btw, I think 5th for ICs is very solid, I wouldn't put them higher atm considering the competition but they're definitely not lower. But I won't go into that, that's not what this is about. Anyway the current tier list is very solid in general, nothing I can really disagree with despite a few surprises.

 

[Technodeath]

it's pretty devastating to put my uneducated opinion out there.

i dont give the slightest crap for ICs so it's not really my problem.

 

[Alzi]

e alert is right. Vlade doesn't know how to space with metaknight properly he should get tips from the best metaknight in perth which is me.

EA both you and glenn suck badly and maybe it's time you picked up a good character like toon link for once.

Top
1- Metaknight

High A
2-Snake
3-Falco
4-Diddy Kong
5-King dedede
6-Wario
7-Marth

High B
8-Ice Climbers
9-Olimar
10-Game and Watch
11-Pikachu
12-Lucario

Middle C
13-Zero Suit Samus
14-Toon Link
15-Pit
16-Kirby
17-Donkey Kong

Middle D
18-R.O.B
19-Peach
20-Fox
21-Luigi
22-Wolf

Middle E
23-Shiek
24-Pokemon Trainer
25-Ness
26-Sonic
27-Lucas

Low F
28-Bowser
29-Yoshi
30-Ike
31-Samus
32-Mario
33-Captain Falcon
34-Jigglypuff

Low G
35-Link
36-Zelda
37-Ganondorf

My tier list is pure win guys seriously.

 

[Vermy]

You are either the world's greatest troll, the world's worst troll, or a baised idiot.

 

[SummonerAU]

I thought Alzi's tier list would be

S tier
1. Toon Link
A tier
B tier
C tier
D tier
E tier
F tier
G tier
2. Everyone else