[WA] Perth Smash Thread

[Ghnaschnakoff]

- The ledges can gimp recoverys like Yoshi's jump and Zelda's upb

I have actually never seen this happen. Only 2 people play Zelda kinda and only Bringer plays Yoshi and he's only been to one tourney as far as I know.

 

[MTGod]

So, basically, Yoshi's Island is only a neutral stage because it ****s everyone up just as bad I'm happy (ecstatic) with Norfair being banned after what happened last time... Lava trap, my foot!!! Also, I've been meaning to ask why Halberd is allowed when part of the stage specifically attacks a certain character...

EDIT: YI also can screw up Lucas and Ness' recoveries as well due to the pop up platforms

 

[Marteh]

Yoshi's Island should not be neutral because:

- The bumpy floor can wreck certain techs characters may have
- The ledges can gimp recoverys like Yoshi's jump and Zelda's upb
- There is a random chance that the stage will save the stock of a player. This can influence the outcome of a match majorly.

-Yet you also suggest lylat which moves, not to forget the layout of stages ruins many techs, such as the platforms on battlefield can screw people over.
-Other levels (hello fd/bf) can gimp recoveries as well, before you say that's bad spacing so is YI. And plus many times on FD/BF have I dolphin slashd only not to grab the ledge but for me to start falling again (does need to be frame perfect though)
-Smashville also can randomly save people if the platform is in place, it's all luck and chance.

EDIT: YI also can screw up Lucas and Ness' recoveries as well due to the pop up platforms

Jesse, anything can screw up their recoveries, and although I admit this is a valid point, refer to my point of Marths dolphin slash glitch on FD/BF which many times leaves me under the stage.

 

[Cartel]

Isn't a counterpick chosen by a challenger to disadvantage a certain player?
so if your saying that YI and lylat screw up certain techs, why don't you just add them to the CP's

 

[Vlade]

I have actually never seen this happen. Only 2 people play Zelda kinda and only Bringer plays Yoshi and he's only been to one tourney as far as I know.

Just because only 2 people main zelda does not make it fair on them.

If we had no DDD mains in Perth why don't we make Bridge of Eldin legal?

Marteh I only suggested Lylat to make 5 stages which means stage striking will be better, but I'm definitely happy to have 3 (BF, SV, FD)

 

[Technodeath]

what was wrong with our old stage set?

 

[Marteh]

Isn't a counterpick chosen by a challenger to disadvantage a certain player?

That is very true, which also questions many stage bannings
- Norfair
- Port Town
- Pirate Ship

All disadvantage certain players and assist others, yes they have obstacles but none are so fast you cant see them (unlike out good friend pictochat), but if that's your reason for banning these stage then get rid of halberd as well due to they have blatantly obvious attacks as well.

Just because only 2 people main zelda does not make it fair on them.

I wasn't aware we even had that many. Still if we're going to talk about fair lets look at getting rid of YI and lylat again.
-Battlefield
-Final Destination
-Smashville
Now unless you're versing MK only one of these stages are good for Marth, that being battlefield, now if your opponent stage strikes battle field you're left with
-Final Destination
-Smashville
Both are two of Marth's worse stages, making the beginning set an almost instant win for the opponent, is that fair?

 

[Ghnaschnakoff]

Just because only 2 people main zelda does not make it fair on them.

If we had no DDD mains in Perth why don't we make Bridge of Eldin legal?

Yes, because rand characters have aerial grab release to the end on other characters.

 

[Technodeath]

Yoshi wins against MK now :D

 

[Cartel]

That is very true, which also questions many stage bannings
- Norfair
- Port Town
- Pirate Ship

All disadvantage certain players and assist others, yes they have obstacles but none are so fast you cant see them (unlike out good friend pictochat), but if that's your reason for banning these stage then get rid of halberd as well due to they have blatantly obvious attacks as well.

Pirate ship is banned?
I think that is probably my favourite stage because of the flipping thing that comes out of the floor.. I have lots of techs for that
Doesn't halberd target a certain character? =/

 

[Vlade]

Final Destination and Smashville wouldn't be considered 'bad' for Marth

I'd be happy to win a tournament in Perth from Norfair, Port Town and Pirate Ship just to prove my point

My reasoning for banning those stages is definitely NOT the hazards since they are certainly quite avoidable, but rather the excessive camping that can happen on those stages.

Actually, let's keep them legal for the next tournament and maybe everyone will change their minds after it

 

[MTGod]

-Smashville also can randomly save people if the platform is in place, it's all luck and chance.

Smashville's not random - you can see the moving platform the whole time, and it's pace does not change randomly... "Convenient" would be a better word than random in this case

Jesse, anything can screw up their recoveries, and although I admit this is a valid point, refer to my point of Marths dolphin slash glitch on FD/BF which many times leaves me under the stage.

Something you can't predict though is a bit unfair... Other ways to screw up their recoveries are usually player induced, which isn't unfair, it's just good/bad playing...

The FD/BF glitch also applies to Falco/Fox's side B as well btw ^^ (assuming we're talking about the same glitch)

so if your saying that YI and lylat screw up certain techs, why don't you just add them to the CP's

That's probably what will end up happening if there ends up only being 3 Neutrals

That is very true, which also questions many stage bannings
- Norfair
- Port Town
- Pirate Ship

As you said, Marty, they all have the ability to kill by the stage... I don't like this, and therefore would agree to Halberd being banned as well...

Regarding Norfair: you can get trapped inside the lava, which then causes you to get hit 3+ times before escaping it, almost always resulting in losing a stock... Last time it happened to me I got hit 5 times by the lava, was only on 20% when I went in there, and ended up dead when I came out of it... Not fun...

Port town: you pretty much get instant killed if even one car hits you at a moderate percentage... That, and the cars come so ****ed fast it could be considered a random event unless you have memorised down to the last second when the cars come... Moreover, on certain parts of the level, some platforms above the track don't even save you from the cars!!!

Pirate ship: I think you know full well what happens on Pirate Ship Marty Though I talked with Alister and he told me that Weegee can CP any stage he wants, so if it's removed from the list for the rest of us I'm not too fussed... I like the stage, but I recognise it's flaws xD

Halberd: Stage attacks that specify which character to attack is kinda lame...

 

[Pete278]

Making Bridge of Eldin legal lets Captain Falcon beat Metaknight sometimes, Wario more times and Squirtle even more times. Do you want that to happen? Do you?

Also, Pirate Ship is fine without rudder camping imo, which is easily banned under stalling. Plus, you know, Weegee. If Japes is gone, the logic behind my argument for Big Blue is gone, which hurts me deeply, but alas, somethings must go, I suppose. I blame Big Claw for the stage being banned. Other than those not really important things, stagelist looks fine to me.

 

[Corpsecreate]

My reasoning for banning those stages is definitely NOT the hazards since they are certainly quite avoidable, but rather the excessive camping that can happen on those stages.

Falco FD...

 

[Marteh]

Final Destination and Smashville wouldn't be considered 'bad' for Marth

Let's just look at the Marth boards.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=211455

My reasoning for banning those stages is definitely NOT the hazards since they are certainly quite avoidable, but rather the excessive camping that can happen on those stages.

Man I think you fail to see who you play and your edge guard techniques .

Smashville's not random - you can see the moving platform the whole time, and it's pace does not change randomly... "Convenient" would be a better word than random in this case

Either way it's opportunistic if you'll live or not.

 

[Technodeath]

i think this stage arguing is a little stupid, why cant we keep the old set/

edit: OMG WOOT i has claimed the most evil page in this thread

 

[Vlade]

Okay let's keep the stagelist, just wait until the next tournament

Trust me samuel, there's far worse than Falco camping on FD

Falco isn't even in the top 3 of 'best campers in the game'

 

[Ghnaschnakoff]

Who would top 3 be then? Samus, Pit annnnndd Snake? or TL?

 

[Technodeath]

i honestly think the best camper is Ganondorf with his crouch taunting, the mechanical sound of his knees bending sends his opponent insane and forces them to approach.

it also leads me to believe that Ganondorf is.. The Terminator.

 

[Mic_128]

Good god, don't go on the forums one night and all this to read >.<

I know it may not -seem- like a month matters, but think about it:

2009:
NOTHING HELD IN PERTH

2010:
NOTHING HELD IN PERTH

Two years in a row without anything, and people start looking funny. Doesn't matter if there's one a month after 2010, still causes looks.

Don't forget

2008:
NOTHING HELD IN PERTH

2007:
NOTHING HELD IN PERTH

It doesn't mean anything. An extra month is meh.

Anyway off the topic of EI3 for now (we can discuss this irl at a smashfest or something) I suggest that we revise the Perth Stagelist. I don't care if you have favourite stages (like me and Japes) but we really need to get rid of some bull**** stages that are in there.

Neutral:

- Final Destination
- Battlefield
- Yoshi's Story
- Smashville
- Lylat

Counterpicks:

- Delfino Plaza
- Frigate Orpheon
- Battleship Halberd
- Castle Siege
- Rainbow Cruise
- Brinstar
- Pokemon Stadium 1

Something like that. I see no reason to keep any other stages.

Jeez louise, what is that?

One of the things I was proud about Perth when I was at Rocky was that we don't ban anything that moves based on scare tactics. We haven't had any issues of obscene camping on any of the stages not on that list (That aren't flat out banned everywhere), we haven't had issues of people (sigh) "abusing" stage hazards for obscene 3 stocking or whatever.

YI is a perfectly fine Neutral. "Oh no the ghost can sometimes save people!" So can Smashville's platform, and so did the cloud in Melee. "Oh no it tilts" Seriously? Why not ban it because it snows on that stage and your character could catch a cold? v.v

Norfair is probably the only one I agree with dropping as that's a plankers paradise And pictochat? Come on, play it a couple of times and it's easy to deal with. the only people who complain about it are the people who play it one and rather than learn the stage decided "it iz too hardz" Transforms every 13 secs, each transformation will only appear once in a tournament match ran to a time out, only 4/5 do damage, only 2 can kill at high percentage without DI.

Marteh I only suggested Lylat to make 5 stages which means stage striking will be better, but I'm definitely happy to have 3 (BF, SV, FD)

What some people have done since Lylat isn't very popular with it's neutral position is have 4 stages, each person strikes one and then just random between the two.

 

[Ghnaschnakoff]

Why not ban it because it snows on that stage and your character could catch a cold? v.v

Falco might catch bird flu.....
Sorry, had to.

 

[Vlade]

Who would top 3 be then? Samus, Pit annnnndd Snake? or TL?

Metaknight, Wario and G&W

Pictochat's quite debatable, I'd be inclined to keep that stage. The random hazards are the only things which make it somewhat bannable but they're not TOO devastating to be of huge concern, unlike the bombs on Green Greens which do 33%

 

[tibs7]

yes 3 neutrals bf, fd and sv are the correct neutrals of the game.

vlade knows his shiz.

 

[Ghnaschnakoff]

Metaknight, Wario and G&W

Isn't what they do really be planking?? I guess camping is a pretty ambiguous term.

EDIT: If Green Greens would be banned for the bombs then shouldn't Pirate Ship also be banned? Pretty sure those bombs do 55%, atleast it did to me once, and then got hit by a second one and died, lost the match because of it. They're not hard to dodge, yeah, but neither are the Green Greens ones, people would just get combo'd into them and I think that's fair.

 

[Fearr.]

Isn't what they do really be planking?? I guess camping is a pretty ambiguous term.

EDIT: If Green Greens would be banned for the bombs then shouldn't Pirate Ship also be banned? Pretty sure those bombs do 55%, atleast it did to me once, and then got hit by a second one and died, lost the match because of it. They're not hard to dodge, yeah, but neither are the Green Greens ones, people would just get combo'd into them and I think that's fair.

i agree the pirate ship is deadly if you get hit by the bombs you are basicly half dead i think it should be banned i dont mind playing it im just not sure if its fair

 

[MTGod]

Marty, all of the stage ban suggestions listed for FD and SV are against character that benefit from the flat stage... Diddy with Bananas, Pika with his NeutralB, DDD with his CG, Link with his projectiles, etc. etc.... It's not that Marth's bad on the stage, it's more that Marth doesn't have a large benefit on FD compared to characters with projectiles or chain grabs...

YI is a perfectly fine Neutral.

It's random nature is what makes it a neutral in the first place, but people don't like random events when they can save your opponents/kill you unexpectedly, which can sometimes mean winning/losing a match... I don't think people are arguing (or at least I'm not arguing) that it's not neutral, it's just that everyone hates it equally

Lylat

I don't even know why Lylat got moved to Neutral in the first place??? I would've thought the half height platforms and the tilting would be a good counterpick for aerial characters...

 

[Tails.]

edit: OMG WOOT i has claimed the most evil page in this thread

maining Snake now?
haha, what a tierwhore you've turned out to be.

 

[Mic_128]

Isn't what they do really be planking?? I guess camping is a pretty ambiguous term.

EDIT: If Green Greens would be banned for the bombs then shouldn't Pirate Ship also be banned? Pretty sure those bombs do 55%, atleast it did to me once, and then got hit by a second one and died, lost the match because of it. They're not hard to dodge, yeah, but neither are the Green Greens ones, people would just get combo'd into them and I think that's fair.

Definitely debatable, but they are a lot easier to see coming, can be good against people water camping, are only there for a short time, and is possible that they don't even appear, whereas Green Greens, you can get hit into them off screen and blow, they will always be there, they stay until they get blown up and then you've also got characters like D3 who can chaingrab against the wall of blocks and then just forward throw them into the bombs for a kill. Can't do that on ship.

 

[Fearr.]

maining Snake now?
haha, what a tierwhore you've turned out to be.

Good snake rules! lol

 

[Technodeath]

lol Tails, if i were a tierwhore, i'd main MK and secondary an S tier character. i main snake and secondary ganon

 

[Ghnaschnakoff]

:O No more DK??

 

[Technodeath]

i personally didnt think i was using DK as well as i should've been. i have had minor interests with snake for a long time coming, with his wide range of things you can do with him. so i thought i'd give it a try

 

[Vlade]

My new proposed stagelist after some more thought:

Neutrals:

-Battlefield
-Smashville
-Yoshi's Island
-Final Destination

Nothing changed from what we've been doing

Counterpicks:

-Delfino
-Frigate Orpheon
-Castle Siege
-Halberd
-Brinstar
-Pokemon Stadium 1
-Pictochat

I replaced pictochat with rainbow cruise because it doesn't overly **** characters like Link who will just die from the way the stage is made anyway. While the hazards on Pictochat may be random, the transition period is consistent so anyone playing on this stage should know when to prepare for a hazard.

Might keep rainbow cruise in though, I actually don't think it's that bannable, it's not like anything stupid/broken can happen on that stage.

I can do this though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_qrN11lcUQ

 

[MTGod]

If you can pull that off regularly Vlade you deserve the kills

Anyway, I see you've decided to keep YI We'll see how it works out...

Is there a rule about who stage strikes first??? It could be as simple as higher port strikes first???

 

[Trillest]

Wow at norfair being taken off i dont understand all the hate its not like every1 doesnt know how norfair works its an awesome stage against players that can play a horizontal ground/air game (falco/diddy) yet it still is playable by those players. I mean on frigate orpheon you can be instantly killed during a transformation but because certain players hate being taken to norfair it gets banned also vlade jungle japes and rc should be added to the counterpick list as 7 counterpicks is extremely limiting on certain characters

 

[Mic_128]

If you can pull that off regularly Vlade you deserve the kills

Anyway, I see you've decided to keep YI We'll see how it works out...

Is there a rule about who stage strikes first??? It could be as simple as higher port strikes first???

Higher port isn't a great solution as then you have to work out who gets to be the higher port.

Just Rock Paper Scissors/coin toss it imo. Not much different than doing so in cricket to see who bats first/AFL to pick which goal you kick to.

RC's pretty fine

 

[Technodeath]

im not honestly fussed with what stages are available, i'll just have to work around it and adapt new strategies

 

[Alzi]

master plan

 

[Technodeath]

im posting for the sake of marteh wanting the 10kth post

 

[Marteh]

10,000th post are belong to Marteh

Edit: So yeah I still say Yoshi's island isn't unfair enough to be moved to counter or banned. And Vlade's just hating since I gimped him twice on it.