[WA] Perth Smash Thread

[Mic_128]

Tiger Tin Can airways ftw

btw port town is so predictable. also half the time even if u cant recover you bounce off the road or the stage changes and you are safe. so CP.

You left out the cars killing you at 30%

 

[swordsaint]

zzz_ I go to sleep and awake to a destructive amount of pages to filter through_

Welcome to the newbies_ Don't be fooled by someone saying they are a girl because a) internet is all guys b) girls say there girls so you go easy on them_ Welcome none the less it's good to get more numbers and we hope you all stick around_

Dreamworld today_ SQUAT was great fun for the only day i went_ I think QLD was happy with the perth crew and it was great to learn new skills and techniques that will overall improve our game_

Scoot_ You need to realise that regardless of the date we hold EI3, ticket prices will vary depending on how long you leave buying tickets till_ If we give everyone a years notice, that means you have the entire year to scout for ticket prices_ Chances are you will find decent prices around the middle of the year_ I have heard people say that they get tickets for around $200 return_ I'm certain we will be recommending websites to sign upto for updates for all the idiots out there who are silly enough to not understand that flight costs vary depending on the month of purchase, regardless of which month you will be flying in_

Counter-point: How are we to know what we're doing on a weekend a year in advance?

 

[Hobobloke]

Starter:
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island

Counter:
Castle Siege
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium 1
Brinstar
Delfino
Frigate Orpheon
Pictochat
Pirate Ship?
Rainbow Cruise


Maybe:
Luigi's Mansion
Port Town Aero Dive
Jungle Japes (Andre has an idea for an F rule, like the DDD rule for japes)

This is what me, Andre, and Graeme think is appropriate, keep in mind we are drinking.

 

[Technodeath]

i dont personally see anything wrong with that list.

 

[Pete278]

Don't like having an even number of stages for stage striking, so either drop FD or add Lylat, imo.

 

[Bsrk_]

Never noticed Luigi's Mansion being banned_ Can anyone tell me why this is removed from CP's_?

Also Scoot_ If you know the date in advance for when EI3 is then you should already know what you're doing that weekend a year in advance_ So you really shouldn't have any other plans and i would see that as a horrible excuse for anyone who is unable to make it_

EDIT: Thanks for the support guys_ <3

 

[Vlade]

Luigi's Mansion is almost as bad as Norfair camping wise

Obviously I completely disagree with the F rule and Japes should just be banned anyway Everyone else probably likes the F rule, and besides, there are flaws with having a 'DDD rule' or 'F rule' which is why I did not have them when I hosted tournaments and we have kept it that way.

Basically the way that counterpicking works is loser chooses stage, winner chooses character, then loser chooses character. What if my opponent chooses Japes, and then I say 'Oh, I wanna play Falco'? Basically anyone can just choose falco and the stage will be unplayable.

Port Town Aero drive has already been explained by Mic - similar to the bombs on Green Greens you're dying at ridiculously low percents which can really affect the outcome of the match majorly (same with klap traps on Japes)

Pirate Ship should be banned. Ever heard of rudder camping or rock camping? Yeah that's why. If we keep it as a stage I see no reason not to abuse that. The hazards on Pirate Ship are fine, it's just rudder camping which holds it back as a CP for me

Besides, Weegee can still pick Pirate Ship if it's banned because of his special powers


Also, do what Pete suggested for Neutrals

 

[Trillest]

so really what your saying vlade is you dont want camping characters in wa ???

 

[Mic_128]

Luigi's Mansion is almost as bad as Norfair camping wise

Unlike Norfair however you can simply destroy the pillars and reduce it to an FD like stage. Mansion os a very anti-projectile stage, which is something there's not a lot of.

Pirate Ship should be banned. Ever heard of rudder camping or rock camping?

You mean tactics which fall under the no excessive stalling rule? It is impossible to do that without trying to do so, and it's simple enough to call a win against anyone doing so, nor have we ever had anyone use that tactic. Banning Pirate ship for something broken that you have to intentionally do is just like banning Metaknight for the infinite dimensional cape.

 

[Vlade]

I don't want camping bull**** like planking and stages which promote running the timer

Rudder camping does not fall under the excessive stalling rule. It is merely 'running away to a better position' so a player cannot be disqualified for doing so. I know we haven't had a problem with it but I want to prevent it from ever happening. I don't think we can ban rudder camping without banning the stage

And with Luigi's to break down the Pillars it takes time, something you don't want to do when you have a minute or so left with a stock to catch up on. You definitely have a point there though.

 

[Pete278]

Rubber camping is stalling and gets you DQ'd, its already got precedent in American tournaments. Its not 'running away to get a better position', its 'excessively avoiding combat'.

 

[Vlade]

This is from the official sbr ruleset

Stalling: The act of deliberately avoiding any and all conflict so that one may make the game unplayable. Running away from an opponent to reach a better position is not stalling, while doing an infinite grab endlessly against a wall is. Any infinite chain grabs must end quickly after 300% has been reached so as to prevent excessive stalling

It's called ruddercamping and not rudderstalling for a reason. It CAN be defeated by most characters but there are indeed characters who cannot beat it, and to try to beat it with most characters is incredibly disadvantageous and can often lead to a spike in the water

 

[Mic_128]

I don't want camping bull**** like planking and stages which promote running the timer

Rudder camping does not fall under the excessive stalling rule. It is merely 'running away to a better position' so a player cannot be disqualified for doing so. I know we haven't had a problem with it but I want to prevent it from ever happening. I don't think we can ban rudder camping without banning the stage

I asked the SBR about it when I first saw it, they said the tactic is banned. Claiming it's not stalling is the same as saying that about Sonic getting under smashville and using neutral B to home, except being a LOT harder to stop when it's in use.

And how is it NOT bannable? WHY should it not be bannable? It is NOT HARD AT ALL to say "Ruder camping is banned" the same way we say "IDC is banned"

Why is it different, why is it harder, why should the entire stage be banned from one thing that you have to intentionally do and which is easy enough to say not to do and DQ people who do?

 

[Mic_128]

Hey Vlade, fun fact: The SBR did not name Rudder Camping.

Read the first line of the rule you just posted
"The act of deliberately avoiding any and all conflict so that one may make the game unplayable"

Are you telling me that hiding underneath the boat in a spot that lets you avoid any and all conflict, making the game unplayable doesn't count as stalling? :/

 

[Vlade]

It is not bannable because this tactic is able to be stopped by a majority of characters. According to the SBR ruleset you cannot be disqualified for abusing this tactic

This tactic does not guarantee a win on the majority of characters so it is not ban-worthy, whereas infinite dimensional cape DOES guarantee a win because no character in the game can stop it if done correctly, therefore it is banned

The game is not unplayable, therefore it is not stalling

 

[Pete278]

Enough characters can't stop it, though, so it is banned. You can't say 'oh, well, some characters can't stop it, so its banned against them'. No, you just ban it. Like, how would Trav feel if you did it against his Bowser? Also, just to clarify, your argument is the tactic is okay and not banable, but its so bad the stage should be banned?

 

[Mic_128]

Why is it different, why is it harder, why should the entire stage be banned from one thing that you have to intentionally do and which is easy enough to say not to do and DQ people who do?

Answer the above.

And as Pete says, why is the tactic fine to use, but is too bad to keep the stage legal?

 

[Vlade]

Yes, what I'm trying to say is that the tactic itself can't be banned (it's certainly not okay) because of the reasons I have already suggested.

You could just ban the tactic against the 8 characters which it majorly affects since they CANNOT do anything and therefore it is 'making the game unplayable' which therefore means it is stalling. However, you can't ban it according to sbr ruleset against the majority of characters which CAN deal with it because the game is definitely playable.

It is either of the following:

-Ban the stage
-Ban ruddercamping against the 8 characters which cannot do anything to combat it

 

[Mic_128]

Yes, what I'm trying to say is that the tactic itself can't be banned

The SBR ruleset is a guide, and Rudder camping did not exist when the current iteration of the rules was made.

It is entirely possible to simply say "Don't ruddercamp or be DQ'd" There is nothing wrong with doing so, and infact, is something everyone in Perth, if not Australia as a whole would agree on.

 

[Pete278]

However, a good portion of the cast can only defeat it by pushing the other person into the boat, which is about as effective as doing nothing. Like, Falcon beats it by Falcon Kicking underneath and pushing them in, which they can avoid by jumping, then pushing you into the boat. So, basically, its more than just the characters who can't do anything, its also the characters who can effectively do nothing.

 

[Technodeath]

why exactly is this an issue?

ban ruddercamping

keep Pirate Ship

what's the problem?

 

[Vlade]

I'm happy with banning ruddercamping itself, it's why I wanted the stage banned in the first place

I just thought it would be inconsistent to ban the tactic without banning the stage itself for the reasons above

 

[Technodeath]

as long as no one abuses the stage exploits it shouldnt be a problem. as im pretty sure everyone will agree to play by the rules

 

[Mic_128]

I just thought it would be inconsistent to ban the tactic without banning the stage itself for the reasons above

We banned the tactic (IDC) without banning the character (Meta) so this isn't any different at all.

 

[Ghnaschnakoff]

Honestly I don't think anyone would be that gay in Perth to actually Rudder camp so I think we're okay.
Unless Glenn feels like being "XD funneh".

 

[Vlade]

I believe there's a huge difference as I've already said

Ruddercamping CAN be dealt with by the majority of characters, whereas IDC CANNOT be dealt with by ANY character, therefore it is stalling

 

[Cartel]

For the record, this is what NSW did ; Their starters were BF, SV and YI.

@Cartel : Your post made no sense to me. Make more sense please. Thankyou.

I just asked if NSW did well when they used those starters..?

 

[Hobobloke]

I don't think you're reading what Mic (who is IN the SBR) said, they think te tactic should be banned. Your basing your entire arguement from the sbr rulest yet they have said the opposite of what your trying to prove. Pirate Ship will continue to be legal at my tournaments and ruddercamping will not be, don't like it? Don't come.

 

[Shaya]

The conceptions of stages are heavily skewed on a person by person basis here.

Also lol @ Tibs "true neutrals".
Yeah, FD is neutral in a match up, for who? LOL

TBH the only stages that are true neutral in my opinion are SV and BF. FD, YI and LC are Neutral/CP.

Destroying a stage to make it "FD like" is a good 30+ seconds, and Mansion is larger than FD already. Making timing away until the stage is back is very probable when the roof is already very high.

Hazards in stages, such as klaptrap shouldn't be a reason for Japes to be illegal. There are a lot worse issues on Japes, mostly being "approach options? nil"

Also rudder camping is a stalling technique. Pirate Ship is one of my favourite stages, but it's not really viable for CP. Not because of bombs or hazards. But because Ted wants it legal, tbh.

Spoiler

Ted's reasons for wanting a stage legal as Wario/Wolf should be obvious =)

 

[Pete278]

I believe there's a huge difference as I've already said

Ruddercamping CAN be dealt with by the majority of characters, whereas IDC CANNOT be dealt with by ANY character, therefore it is stalling

13 characters who can't realistically deal with it is easily enough to ban it. If IDC could be hit by any projectile, would you still ban it, or say 'well, most characters can deal with it, so it can stay.'?

 

[Jupz]

Travs stage list is very good IMO and I like it.

Also, I would just like to point out that DDD rules and Falco rules are stupid. If one character can gay everyone else on the stage, ban the stage. Or keep it. Japes should be allowed IMO.

 

[MTGod]

Rudder camping does not fall under the excessive stalling rule. It is merely 'running away to a better position' so a player cannot be disqualified for doing so. I know we haven't had a problem with it but I want to prevent it from ever happening. I don't think we can ban rudder camping without banning the stage

**** you Mic for saying what I wanted to say... **** you Andy for saying what I wanted to say T.T A whole two paragraphs, ruined!!!!!

Basically, if consensus is reached that the tactic be banned, and there is a legit reason for it to be banned, then why couldn't it be banned??? I don't think anyone in Australia uses Ruddercamping anyway, unless they really dislike making friends, so it's more a thing that we're doing just in case anyone from more competitive scenes (i.e. America) takes an interest into Aussie nationals...

If one character can gay everyone else on the stage, ban the stage. Or keep it.

Jupzson likes sitting on fences

 

[Mic_128]

The conceptions of stages are heavily skewed on a person by person basis here.

Also lol @ Tibs "true neutrals".
Yeah, FD is neutral in a match up, for who? LOL

Exactly why the term is now "Starter" as opposed to "Neutral"

 

[Technodeath]

i had a random dream last night, for some reason bob was an extreme racist :s and Mic was a pimp

 

[Pete278]

You mean Mic isn't a pimp?

 

[MTGod]

Wrong thread, Rick - there's already a thread about random dreams

Change of topic failed

 

[Technodeath]

it seems so pete.

well i dont see how it has failed yet, so far two people have posted something different besides all that ruddercamping poop

 

[Shaya]

Exactly why the term is now "Starter" as opposed to "Neutral"

Yet Starters are meant to produce as close to neutral match ups as possible (hence Stage Striking) for the first match of a set.
Anyone who really thinks having both Smashville and FD in a starter list of three needs to stop thinking that JUST COZ ITS FLAT, ITS FAIR.

 

[MTGod]

Well, why don't why go into stage builder an MAKE three neutral stages then??? Solve everyone's problem...

EDIT: I stage strike Duelist

 

[Jupz]

Yet Starters are meant to produce as close to neutral match ups as possible (hence Stage Striking) for the first match of a set.
Anyone who really thinks having both Smashville and FD in a starter list of three needs to stop thinking that JUST COZ ITS FLAT, ITS FAIR.

this

10this