Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
fact check = smash wiki the site I was literally just bashingTbh, that was what I was going for.
Really, though, I've never played nor watched brawl -- but it took me all of three minutes to fact-check. When people can't be bothered to make sure they're right, it really pisses me off.
No, fact check=looking at the brawl competitive forum on SWF.
And then you realize the people talking there are mostly not (prob all) good top players and it's just like us, and we can be wrong.
I get the feeling that people don't realize that sheik isn't brawl MK. She's not a broken OP character that can kill anybody who dares to oppose the smash hierarchy. Sheik is easily the most balanced #1 compared to any other smash game and easily has a few even MUs. Also, it might have been just been Mario hype, but wasn't the red plumber supposedly going even with sheik?
This post was a bit much, my apologies.
I'm not seeing how his forward smash is super dumb.
Homey if you don't live for these petulant slap fights I don't even know what you're doing in this thread.
how about having a completely disjointed powerful attack that completely wins against non powershields. I anyone believes Villager's F-smash is dumb than go look at MK's which has bigger range and rarely loses/trades
That's kinda because the 3rd MU chart had like half the people on panels or even the panel leaders participating in discussion. Prolly due to brawl dying by the time we attempted a 3rd chart.
Was his forward smash like this in Brawl?
Well at the very least it had more range.
A Mewtwo, on the other hand...
Yeah, that's true. However, I would've thought ESAM thinking Pikachu vs Meta Knight being even in the first place was the opinion to take with a grain of salt.
Yeah. It had more range too. However, Smash 4's forward smash is a lot stronger, deals 2% more damage and the added shield stun makes it absurdly safe on them.
I know you're not a Mario main, but given the opponent it almost feels like the pot calling the kettle black.
More like Super-Pretend-To-Smash-When-I'm-Really-Going-To-Dash-Attack Bros.
People forget aboutIn terms of worst Dash attacks I'd defintly would say Marth and lucina imo. As of the best dash attack that honor goes to none other thenbecause any dash attack that's that quick and can lead up to kill confirms is the best dash attack in my book.
Link's dash attack would like to have a word with all of you.People forget about
Marth's dash attack hits frames 13-16 with 50 FAF and 10/9 damage or 12 damage tipped.
Shulk's dash attack hits frames 15-16 with 53 FAF for 11 damage.
I Vote Shulk.
at leats Link's dash attack is a kill move with a large disjointed hitbox
Have you ever played Super Smash Bros before?
Actually, Lucina. Lucina's DA is WAY worse than Marth's. I'm surprised they have been ignoring this while buffing her other attacks to get them closer to Marth's.People forget about
Marth's dash attack hits frames 13-16 with 50 FAF and 10/9 damage or 12 damage tipped.
Shulk's dash attack hits frames 15-16 with 53 FAF for 11 damage.
I Vote Shulk.
Nah, Link has set-ups into his DA. He can't have the worst DA when it's a kill move (speaking of kill move DAs, the active frames on DDD's makes it among the better DAs plus it's good for outlasting spot dodges).
Link gets a high sweeping arc (I think it can hit people on platforms), 4 active frames, and can kill. It's also only has a FAF 4 frames later than Shulk's, with his 2 active frames and awful hitbox. I'd trade for Link's dash attack, it could be better to have after Shulk's bthrow than blackslash.
He, Falco, Marth, Sheik, Jigglypuff, and Peach - that dumb Down Smash -, Ice Climbers by virtue of dumb grab mechanics, and plenty more are broken in Melee. Meta Knight, Falco, Snake, Ice Climbers, Triple DD, and probably more because of chain-grabbing's existence were all broken in Brawl. Smash 4 has like what? Diddy, Greninja, and Rosalina at launch? Luigi after patch 1.0.4? And now... like nobody, but for some, arguably Rosalina, DK, and Sheik? Even then, they're pretty tame compared to Melee and Brawl's level of brokenness. If anything, they're just way too good compared to everyone else or have over-tuned options.
It's still a frame 24 move that only has 1 active frame and with 41 total frames, it only has 16 recovery frames... That's like decent tilt recovery. Then again, Mario's Up Smash is kind of stupid at times too.
Your term of broken is, I can't call it wrong, but it's not right. You are saying anything good is broken. Broken means unbeatable, way above the rest, wins 99% of the time. Fox is not this. Fox isn't even a tier above Falco and Marth so he can't be way above. Falco and Marth both have even MUs with him, even beat him on stages. His shine is really good but far from broken, by this aspect you're calling Falco's d-air broken because it has better gimping (but more startup). If Meta Knight is called Broken, yet Fox in Melee is also called broken (who isn't even a tier above other top tiers) vs Meta Knight who is 2 tiers (1 above ICs) above the rest of the top tiers, that is a HUGE GAP and it makes your point simply unreliable.He, Falco, Marth, Sheik, Jigglypuff, and Peach - that dumb Down Smash -, Ice Climbers by virtue of dumb grab mechanics, and plenty more are broken in Melee. Meta Knight, Falco, Snake, Ice Climbers, Triple DD, and probably more because of chain-grabbing's existence were all broken in Brawl. Smash 4 has like what? Diddy, Greninja, and Rosalina at launch? Luigi after patch 1.0.4? And now... like nobody, but for some, arguably Rosalina, DK, and Sheik? Even then, they're pretty tame compared to Melee and Brawl's level of brokenness. If anything, they're just way too good compared to everyone else or have over-tuned options.
I'm on mobile, so I'm not going to go over everything, but to sum up how broken Fox is: frame 1, invincible on frame 1 Reflector used for gimping Melee's poor recoveries and setups since you can jump out of it and a 18% Uair that can easily be setup out of U-throw. Everyone has or can see high level Fox play and notice how dominating he is.
The gap between Fox and the other top tiers is so large, it's not funny. And people want more of this because unlike other fighting games, Smash never had to deal with balanced and unbroken characters.
It's still a frame 24 move that only has 1 active frame and with 41 total frames, it only has 16 recovery frames... That's like decent tilt recovery. Then again, Mario's Up Smash is kind of stupid at times too.
I think what he's trying to say is that Melee has a lot of dumb stuff like crazy overtuned hitboxes and attributes... I don't think any decent fighting game designer would intentionally give a character anything like the shine without them being Brawl Dorf bad to begin with. Or any other key characteristics of the best characters in Melee for that matter.
The BF nerf was unnecessary. I don't like how unreliable the move is now.
But in context of Melee, they aren't broken. If Melee Fox was in Smash 4 he would be broken, but that's because the games are different. A game where everyone is broken makes nobody broken, since broken means unbeatable.
Pika wins neutral. from there, he craps on Ryu's recovery. Look at Trela vs ESAM -- Ryu doesn't get back to the stage.
Doesn't Fox have better true combos, better damage output, and more reliable kill moves?
Unreliable!? How is less knockback unreliable? Do you see how good Sheik's are with it off-stage? It still kills quite early out there. BF is super disjointed and has many many active frames. The move gets so good and technical that there are times and characters that completely can't avoid it off-stage.
Because if he's forced to go low without a jump, the majority of the cast gets a free kill.
I don't see Diddy getting gimped that often. It's really not that simple.
The fact that you mentioned Sheik players hitting players with it off-stage as an example of how reliable it is is proof of how unreliable it is. How is taking away knockback from a kill move not making it less reliable? Try killing someone with it at the center of the stage.
