Vent.

[harriettheguy]

and btw dont you realize youve already won? theres a 95% chances brawls gonna take over. and at that point i'll be be retired and you wont have anybody to argue with. these are just my death throes, baby

thats why you were so happy today......like a red giant exploding right before it turns into a black hole.
ive picked up "werd", how to be a man, and how to make a woman feel like a woman, thanks to you. people aren't immortal, but I guess they sort of can be by their teachings and inheritable mannerisms to the next generation.

 

[derf]

guys (mike_g, hiroshi), you have to know i respect your opinion that this game is good, but its hard for me to like brawl when i played it today and the following exact sequence happened:

i miss a downsmash with rob
harriet the guy runs up to grab me with ddd
he trips
i run to grab him
i trip
he smashes me

thats garbage man. despite its profound slowness, there are things im definitely starting to appreciate about brawl. but unless they patch out tripping im not going to enjoy this game. im sorry. im still playing it (somewhat) and trying to learn things but i make enough mistakes without the game making mistakes for me.

 

[Mr H is MARIO]

Not gonna lie, tripping in a fighting game is probably the worst idea ever.

 

[Mike G]

you know tripping is....nvm. Jwong playes brawl. that's all u have to know.

Melee will still be here if its still big in the community.

ppl still have super turbo tourneys when theres like 29 newer Street Fighter games lol

 

[StripesOrBars]

Yeah the tripping thing is the single most d!ckheaded move SakooorIIIII could have pulled.

But, like XIF has said in every "Bash Brawl" thread, this is a completely differnt game.

The best character in this game are gonna come to who has the most KO moves, unlike Melee where any character can beat any character.

And no XIF, this game is not more balanced than Melee, in a year or 2 it's gonna come down to a set number of characters that completely own(marth and Pit), and no other characters will have a chance in hell, like magneeeeeeeeto in MVC2.

 

[XIF]

unlike Melee where any character can beat any character.

That is probably the single most untruthful statement i've ever heard in my life.

 

[StripesOrBars]

After Pound 3 XIF, any character can beat any character in melee.

It's not like some fighting games where 2, or 3 characters completely dominate the metagame and the rest of the characters aren't even played in comp(even though that's what Melee was coming to).

You say this game is way more balanced?

How do you know?

It's been out for less than 3 months.

No johns.

Fox, Shiek and Marth weren't that much better than the rest of the cast in Melee(save for like bottom and low tiered characters that should never have even been thought of).

Fox was at least chain grabable 0 to death by just about every character(if you could catch him) and the top three were basically rock paper scissors in the last year before brawl.

 

[NickRiddle]

This game will probably have around 10 playable characters...And Doodah, the new sheild system ***** Marth...Hard.

 

[CaptainCrunch]

Yea All I've been playing is marth and he definetely has weaknesses that you need to avoid. Simply spacing and fsmashing doesnt work, he's somewhat easy to gimp and his recovery is not as broken as other characters like pit.

 

[GAwes]

wtf double post quote glitch, fux english interwebs

 

[GAwes]

Patching tripping is an even more **** idea than making tripping in the first place. Why would they patch tripping? Its not a glitch. Clearly it was put in on purpose. There are 100,000 members of smashboards, i'd say only about 20k of them are "regular" members. How many copies did this game sell already? What is the percentage of people that want tripping out? If they go and patch tripping, what makes you think they wont start patching the things that we like? We're just a small fraction of players that they probably think take the game too seriously. I think if they patched tripping, you could go ahead and say goodbye to more than half of the "advanced tactics" that have been discovered. Game over.



edit: also, this is a time for change, if you dont like brawl, fine, the community doesnt really need your approval in the least. If you arent part of the solution you're simply part of the problem. Please everyone quit their venting and *****ing and then subsequently talking about how you'd like it "if this" or "without that". Well this is the way it is, its unlikely it will be changed "for the better". Derf's analogy to tennis and table tennis is irrelevant. Because im sure when table tennis came out, people didnt write to tennis magazines *****ing about the size of the net or paddle materials, the simply left the community and did their own thing. You are all outnumbered, take your melee elsewhere you are wasting our time and are proposing to waste our tournament experiences. Tournaments at the moment simply do not have the time to run the two games, we all know smash takes much, much longer than the other fighters to run, and that is the reason that proposition will not work. I have no beef with melee, i loved it, but it has to be removed so that brawl can flourish, if only for the beginning. The end.

 

[?!?]

Lol xif its just mad cuz he used a broken character in melee and thinks fox counters peach when peach can kill fox in just a few hits. get over it xif peach is even with fox is melee. master the match up b4 judging. in melee more than half of the characters were playbae in tournies cept chracters like pichu and bowser. melee was juts 10 times harder than brawl cuz everyone was so ahead of time so noobs like 0 chancce of doing well in melee. its gonna be the same fror brawl in 3 years lol poor ****ty nooobs thye gonna get owned once again

 

[skrach8]

And the truth has come out. You know whats funny everyone that dislikes brawl is going to play regardless, you want to know y...... cuz ur a bunch of b!tches. Jk, but not really. In all seriousness, its not the game entirely that drives you. Its the need to win and woop some ***. Within time u guys are gunna get owned and wont be able to let it go. For me, i was never technical at melee, but it was so much fun messin with peoples minds. Pete ur gunna play cuz, well..... u just are. Fred, lol, you dont like losing to noobs.... even more so people you think are noobs, so ur gunna play. Alex, main someone new, peach is old news. WAIT DO U STILL PLAY PEACH, im just going off assumptions here.

And marth doesnt get ***** by shields, you guys are still playing the spacing game melee style.

quote it.

 

[Rohins]

You know whats funny everyone that dislikes brawl is going to play regardless, you want to know y...... cuz ur a bunch of b!tches. Jk, but not really.

Book of Luis. Page 7, line 15.

 

[The Alpha Gundam]

Patching tripping is an even more **** idea than making tripping in the first place. Why would they patch tripping? Its not a glitch. Clearly it was put in on purpose. There are 100,000 members of smashboards, i'd say only about 20k of them are "regular" members. How many copies did this game sell already? What is the percentage of people that want tripping out? If they go and patch tripping, what makes you think they wont start patching the things that we like? We're just a small fraction of players that they probably think take the game too seriously. I think if they patched tripping, you could go ahead and say goodbye to more than half of the "advanced tactics" that have been discovered. Game over.



edit: also, this is a time for change, if you dont like brawl, fine, the community doesnt really need your approval in the least. If you arent part of the solution you're simply part of the problem. Please everyone quit their venting and *****ing and then subsequently talking about how you'd like it "if this" or "without that". Well this is the way it is, its unlikely it will be changed "for the better". Derf's analogy to tennis and table tennis is irrelevant. Because im sure when table tennis came out, people didnt write to tennis magazines *****ing about the size of the net or paddle materials, the simply left the community and did their own thing. You are all outnumbered, take your melee elsewhere you are wasting our time and are proposing to waste our tournament experiences. Tournaments at the moment simply do not have the time to run the two games, we all know smash takes much, much longer than the other fighters to run, and that is the reason that proposition will not work. I have no beef with melee, i loved it, but it has to be removed so that brawl can flourish, if only for the beginning. The end.

I <3 Wes.
When you coming back to GA mangz

 

[-Chad-]

That is probably the single most untruthful statement i've ever heard in my life.

Luigi Ka-Master made 9th at FC going almost all (if not all, I can't say I watched all of his matches) Luigi. He fought a Fox on Corneria, and he didn't make johns, he just won (this was in brackets so don't pull a "The fox was garbage" out)

Also made 2nd in a Cali tourny, and HugS made 1st. Both of which don't main a space animal.

 

[?!?]

melee was pretty well balance it was just full of b1tches who suck at the game. brawl seems more balance I dont know what people gonna find out in the future

 

[hungrybox]

Lol i make the best threads

I personally want to have a mash-up or just melee tournament

I mean, it would be fun wouldn't it?

My man derf and chopz know da truuth.

 

[Pritch]

I'm with derf, chops, and etc.

Not much point in rehashing the same stuff that they've all said (lack of valid approaches, tripping is wtf, etc), but I agree with most of it. The game just seems like a horrible regression to some kind of pre-smash64 prototype with better graphics. The lack of options is just ridiculous.

Now, people may figure out things that enable more character mobility and/or speed the game up and/or make camping not the only viable way to play, and if that happens I'll probably get into the game. Until then though, the game is fun and all, but if I want to play seriously I'll stick with melee or guilty gear.

 

[derf]

ok revising my admittedly not great tennis v table tennis analogy: its like one day they came out with table tennis and called it "tennis 2."

and louis im actually pretty sure im not going to play brawl. i admit loving competition, but i dont care about losing to anyone in a game i dont care about. otherwise id already be playing halo

also wes, saying if im not part of the solution im part of the problem is silly. this argument doesnt have a right or wrong answer. it has a majority and a minority position certainly. but, cmon dude you know very few things are as clear cut as that. i assure you i feel just as strongly about brawl usurping melee as you do about melee holding brawl back

this issue with combo tournies taking too long is certainly relevant though. quite frankly, if melee singles is going to be held at a brawl tournament, theres probably not going to be time for pools

 

[CaptainCrunch]

Yea there prob won't be time for pools, but really it all depends on the outcome and who wants to play in which tourney or both. May be it would be a good idea to take a poll to see how many people are coming and which tourneys they would attend assuming we had both melee and brawl.

Hey the music in brawl is amazing. Ive spent now like an hour only on the music section. The musicians really did an exellent job music wise. This has nothing to do with the gameplay but I can't help but admire what a good hob the musicians did. Music FTW

 

[?!?]

brawl is a good game and its as competitive as melee I just like melee alot better thought

 

[derf]

wes as far as patching out tripping you do have a valid point. where do you draw the line? frankly i dont know. as decisions like that will definitely impact the quality of the game. i do think the majority of brawl players dont like tripping though, which would seemingly make it a candidate to be patched

edit: brawl music is excellent, yes

 

[SheerMadness]

If they took out tripping and added L-canceling brawl would be amazing.

As of now its just a fun party game that we are trying to make competitive.

 

[XIF]

Listen guys, just because a few players have won or done well with lower tiered character is IN NO WAY PROOF OF BALANCE.

my god just because mango did well at 2 or 3 tournaments and luigi ka master placed top 10 at a few national tournaments doesnt prove squat.

What about every other tournament I can name that was won by the top 4 characters?

FC, FC3, FC6, FCD, Pounds 1 and 2, VLS, All the OC's, a majority of the TG's, practically EVERY MLG minus MLG orlando 2006

those were all won by fox falco marth sheik.

and also placing high doesnt mean anything. Lets look at clockwork from mvc2. He plays probably one of the most average teams in the game. Strider doom sentinal. As a matter of fact, running a "clockwork team" has become synonymous with strider doom sent. clockwork has consistently placed at least top 10 and often times top 5 at every major mvc2 tournament.

BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN MAGNETO, STORM, CABLE, SENTINAL AND PSYLOCKE DONT COMPLETELY DOMINATE THE METAGAME.

In the same way that mago won a single tournament with jiggs, also means that the top 4 characters in melee mustve won every other major tournament. There will always be exceptions. There are the bums, and ka-masters, and the mago's in every fighting game community, but if you think that is proof of balance in melee i'd seriously reconsider what you think about competitive gaming in general. Hugo's pop up at 3s tournaments, blanka made some appearances on the super turbo 2 top 8 for evo last year. But that doesnt matter, because chun li and yun still dominate the third strike metagame, and dhalsim/old sagat still dominate the super turbo scene.

It is a testament to our own imperfections that allows lower tiered characters in any fighting game to do well, but it in no way proves anything as to the balance of the game. since 2003, melee tournaments have been won in an overwhelming majority to the top 4 characters.

And lambchops, since the game came out, there has been a reason why peach doesnt win and thats because she just isnt as good, and she is in no way broken period. Might as well give game and watch the advantage since he has 0 to deaths on fox and falco. Its a completely unsupported argument, by both tournament history and just looking at the match up. Its not like every top peach player doesnt try...

As a disclaimer:

I understand perfectly well that peach is not a bad character in melee, but I'm also not going to say that she is the best either because she just isnt as good as the other 4.

And I also understand that in the sense of top level play, that I sucked in melee. I barely made top 32 bracket at a single national tournament, and that doesnt cut it. nobody cares about anything past the top 5 and I understand that.

 

[Angrylobster]

****, xif dropping the SF knowledge in the thread; too good

 

[Rohins]

I'm not sure how there's an argument about competitiveness in this game. There are clearly better players. They win consistently. Granted tripping is random, it has little effect over the grand scheme of things. Not to be cocky, I lose few matches. I've met one person who is clearly better than me and when I play him, I almost never win. If this game were too simple there wouldn't be room for such separation of skill.

Just because you play this game differently from Melee doesn't imply a lack of skill. If you fail to see options that's not the game's issue that just means you need to learn more. I've played vs a lot of campers and haven't had any issues dealing with it.

Personally prefer Melee over Brawl? That's fine, opinions are like *******s everyone's got one. To make claims that this game is too easy is absurd though. You don't really have room to make this claim unless you are winning most of your matches and haven't met a challenge.

 

[hungrybox]

dood....

Sentinel is sooooooooo nasty in Mvc2

he's like its fox

 

[dguy6789]

I'm not sure how there's an argument about competitiveness in this game. There are clearly better players. They win consistently. Granted tripping is random, it has little effect over the grand scheme of things. Not to be cocky, I lose few matches. I've met one person who is clearly better than me and when I play him, I almost never win. If this game were too simple there wouldn't be room for such separation of skill.

Just because you play this game differently from Melee doesn't imply a lack of skill. If you fail to see options that's not the game's issue that just means you need to learn more. I've played vs a lot of campers and haven't had any issues dealing with it.

Personally prefer Melee over Brawl? That's fine, opinions are like *******s everyone's got one. To make claims that this game is too easy is absurd though. You don't really have room to make this claim unless you are winning most of your matches and haven't met a challenge.

The truth has been spoken.

 

[hungrybox]

I'm not sure how there's an argument about competitiveness in this game. There are clearly better players. They win consistently. Granted tripping is random, it has little effect over the grand scheme of things. Not to be cocky, I lose few matches. I've met one person who is clearly better than me and when I play him, I almost never win. If this game were too simple there wouldn't be room for such separation of skill.

Just because you play this game differently from Melee doesn't imply a lack of skill. If you fail to see options that's not the game's issue that just means you need to learn more. I've played vs a lot of campers and haven't had any issues dealing with it.

Personally prefer Melee over Brawl? That's fine, opinions are like *******s everyone's got one. To make claims that this game is too easy is absurd though. You don't really have room to make this claim unless you are winning most of your matches and haven't met a challenge.

hi rohins!!!!!

:D

 

[Mankosuki]

Ric, come back to Tampa and keep FL in line! >_<

 

[GAwes]

im too drunk to read all these post, but i read a few up until fred's last and will read the rest in the morning, i'd jiust like to say that i love fred, and am not arguing against him, but against melee being included in brawl tournaments and people sticking to the forums simply to talk about melee in obviously brawl related therads (not this wonesn doods). either way, i wouldnt say in the least that a "majority of brawl players want tripping patched" because you are going on the stats of this site, not the sell figures, most people play this as just a game, like most video games. im under the impression that we are all in the minority, and while i dont think the answer is as "clear cut" as it may seem through my post, i do believe that positions have to be taken as strongly as i am taking them for things to happen. Things dont happen from people pussying out. And i hope that in a few months there is either a separate boards subforum entirely for melee or that you all entirely disappear, because i stand by everything i said. Love it or leave it. =D

 

[GTR!]

im too drunk to read all these post, but i read a few up until fred's last and will read the rest in the morning, i'd jiust like to say that i love fred, and am not arguing against him, but against melee being included in brawl tournaments and people sticking to the forums simply to talk about melee in obviously brawl related therads (not this wonesn doods). either way, i wouldnt say in the least that a "majority of brawl players want tripping patched" because you are going on the stats of this site, not the sell figures, most people play this as just a game, like most video games. im under the impression that we are all in the minority, and while i dont think the answer is as "clear cut" as it may seem through my post, i do believe that positions have to be taken as strongly as i am taking them for things to happen. Things dont happen from people pussying out. And i hope that in a few months there is either a separate boards subforum entirely for melee or that you all entirely disappear, because i stand by everything i said. Love it or leave it. =D

we all just witnessed a QFT by wes

 

[Linguini]

This game will probably have around 10 playable characters...And Doodah, the new sheild system ***** Marth...Hard.

Guess what.....the new shield system ***** EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER.....Hard.Ever think about grabbing shields? nuff said.

 

[derf]

ive never said this game isnt competitive or doesnt take skill. like pretty much every pvp game outside the mario party series, there will be players who are better than others and those players will consistently win a large majority of their matches. frankly, i just dont find this game fun or entertaining.

and tripping doesnt make earth shifting differences in matches but it certainly will cause someone not to win a tournament at some point. mostly though i just find it frustating as hell. a very important part of a "good" game imo is control of your character. we spent years learning frame rates and the exact percentages we could do combos at in melee. and now weve been handed a product where the ceiling for character control is at less than 100%.

 

[theONEjanitor]

tripping is definitely something ********. but its safe to say that for everyone whose played the game for a lot of time, it doesn't come close to making the game unplayable. it doesn't come close to making characters even feel uncontrollable. it happens so rarely that you pretty much forget its in the game until it happens. i mean if you tripped every time you tried to walk, i'd get pissed and probably not play this game and i'm sure most people would as well. but it just doesn't happen so much and in so many situations where it really affects anything. people who refuse to play the game because of something like tripping are making their decision based on some encompassing video game guideline they've set up and not based on actually playing the game. not saying that anyone here has stated that tripping is the sole reason they dislike brawl, but i don't really think it breaks the game. there is mad **** in melee thats kind of ********, marth's grab range for example, or wobbling. but its just there we dealt with ti because it didn't break the game.
and in response to derf's post, sure tripping might and probably will cost someone a champ match, but A. its probably going to be between two players who spent the last ten hours ****** everyone in the room, so they've already shown their good at the game, not many people in this community really get that upset if they win second instead of first.
and more importantly B. random **** happens all the time. people have been caused to not win melee tournaments because of peach pulling a stitchface/bomb, because battlefield's dumb edges, because of phantom hits, because the cloud appeared on yoshi's story etc.
i mean smash bros is a game that is designed such that random **** affects the games outcome. we've done the best we can to remove all the random and luck based elements, but we can never get rid of it all. and tripping is just some other nonsense we have to deal with.

also about 'balance'.
i get confused when people talk about 'balance' in fighting games. its literally impossible to create a fighting game that has more than one unique character and is also balanced? and its extremely hard to created a game where there isn't a clear "best' character or set of characters. has it ever been done?
This leads me to believe that when people mention balance, they mean theres a lot of viable characters in tournament play. and in that case, it seems to me that Melee is one of the more balanced fighters.

Skill has always won Melee tournaments, not characters. M2K didn't win all the time because he played Marth. he won because he was freaking great at the game. Clearly he had an advantage by playing a better character, but the advantage was not so great such that it was the reason he one. What's the difference between Mango doing good at his tournaments and M2k doing good at his? its not like random foxes and sheiks win all the tournaments, its usually the same guys every time, because those specific guys are good at the game, and they happen to play fox and sheik. In fact, part of the reason that these characters are top tier is BECAUSE these smart players used them and developed them so much.. Not so much the other way around. I mean in some cases yes, especially in melee's later years, people just learned to press buttons really fast and make top ten in tournaments with falco. but i think that if there was another tier list for melee, Marth would top the list this time simply because of the success of Ken and M2K and other players like Cactuar.

its hard to tell what the balance of brawl is looking like, but for now its a deadlock. and its gonna really break down to who wins tournaments.
i mean just watch, the first national brawl tournament. who ever wins that, their character is gonna be the one that everyone wants to play. who ever has the most videos with the most gimps or combos, whoever decides to developed whatever character...thats gonna be the one to top the list.

i do believe that the characters in brawl are a lot more individualized which may lead to a lot more characters being played, but we'll see.

i am sorry for this long *** post that i'm sure none of you care abuot.

 

[derf]

the one, you make good points esp about phantom hits, etc. although the cloud on yoshi story isnt exactly random and some players (smashmac comes to mind) know the timing. i still think tripping is considerably worse than any of these things because it occurs fairly frequently and because it was deliberately put in the game. but ill concede melee did have its random elements that took away from the game

with regards to melee's lack of balance. first of all, it wasnt THAT bad xif. certainly, the best players (as well as the majority of players) were largely going to play the best characters, so the relative successes of marth, fox, etc get a little overstated. plus there were 8 or so legit tournament characters and a top tier that could be extended to 4 characters (ics 5?). seems ok to me. (yes peach v fox sucks)

and who knows where brawls gonna end up? i bet there wont be a top tier that has more than 1/4 of the characters.

also im missing the creativity of melee right now.

edit: my bad tOj, i didnt read the part of your post on balance till i posted this.

 

[xYz]

Fred really loves melee, whenever he would come over to play at the SOS fort, he could go for hours....


"and thats what she said..."

 

[?!?]

my point stand s xif is madd cuz he sucked and he had a good character and complain about the fox and peach match up. I dont really care about the tounrey stats peach is def top tier with sheil falco fox and marth lol

 

[Finch]

Peach was high tier because she ***** everyone who was lower tier than her, not neccessarily because she could do well against top tier characters (except falco lol). There's a reason Ken, M2K, KDJ, Chu, and PC never mained or secondaried peach.