VENGEANCE Results - April 7th, 2012 - Cincinnati, OH

[Overswarm]

Did anyone take my chicken and fried rice? I was walking around with it the whole at the tournament saving it for later and then I left it at the TO station with the laptop and stuff and then I forgot to grab it after. If anyone has found my fried rice send me a PM and we can work something out where if you can mail it to me or something.



I'm really hungry so mail it to me soon.

Me too.

That GTso's chicken was so good.

I miss it.

 

[Roller]

wtf I'm not proposing that, it just shouldn't be happening Round 3 of a tournament. 4/5 of our carpool was on one side of the bracket. It's not that difficult to move reflex or drn to the other side without screwing it up.

And have Reflex, Logic, Kain, and MJG all on the same side of the bracket? Yeah, good plan.

 

[M@v]

26 viewers, what.

Seriously though the "drama" really seems like stuff people are pushing too far for no reason. Seeding's never perfect, and sometimes people do and say stupid things. =3

 

[half_silver28]

JAYTEE's USUAL SHOUTOUTS​

1: Ally ($379.20) - YoOoOoOoOoOo I thought you were Gio Good **** nonetheless.
2: Kain ($173.80) - **** Wolf as Usual.
5: Reflex ($31.60) - Hilarious friendlies mah d00d. Wish Al wasn't so far away. lol
5: Logic ($31.60) - yoooooo keeping me up till 4 to beef up Zino's metagame swag. >.>
9: Player-1 - Judging by the friendlies we did, I thought your placement were to be lower. lmao
9: Roller - yooo Pit MU sucks, but you got him next time. **** KASSANDRANOVA.
13: Judo - Omg, reenactment of last time... Now at least Logic can say he had a LEGIT win against you
13: Alphazealot - Whoa... you still play? lol
13: DLA - Wow the mostrape Ganon ever. I really wanted to Ganon ditto you. lol
13: SneakyTako - The bane of MI existence. If you're coming to SPAU, then we'll be ready
17: Zeton - GG's pools. Your fox is too good lol.
17: Dyno - Doubles stealer
17: Legan - Deez nutz
17: Fizzle - GG's in pools. Your DDD *****
17: FAE - Wow, fantastic performance in Doubles and you beat Relfex in pools. lol
17: Zinoto - You did pretty well for your 1st OoS. You will deff do better next time. I know it
17: Technical_Chase - Yooo bdubs swag.
25: FF Ori_bro - I'll put FF next to my name for SPAU ;P
25: Bpow - Congratz with your dubs winnings. You looked so good.
25: WTP - **** Kass.
25: Overswarm - If you had a metalgear shaped thingy, I would've bought it! xD
33: Spec - GG's in friendlies. pikapika
33: Clowsui - Thanks for hosting this awesome tournament. I was surprised how well you managed time for this. If you did take out AM bracket, the tournament would've been over a lot sooner, but nonetheless it was a great experience OoS.
33: Zyth - Yo, I can just see your DK keep getting better and better... Makes me even more scared D:
33: KassandraNova - Yo, I wanted to Peach ditto you, but then I heard you hate MI players. *hmph*



1: Carls ($28.8) - yo congratz d00d.
4: Jt556 ($4.8) - Another JAYTEE????
7: DrillBitSammy - haha gg's Luigi main
9: Gifts - Yo, I got you next Snake ditto. Fun times.
13: JTsm - Salt. Pingas. Scrub.
17: Steep - GG's in friendlies ^^
17: Jared - GG's. Keep playing that Sheik!
25: Travesty - GG's in our pool. DDD!!
25: Silver - Yo gg's in AM bracket.

ggs; thanks for putting up with my horrible showing too. Sure this was my first big tourney, but my lack of MU experience was really evident in our match.

Eddie_g: ggs, and thanks for being so cool not making me feel like an outsider. Wasn't able to watch you in singles though

Ally: not quite unexpected, but congrats on the win. ggs too, though you did give me quite a beating. To think I would end up in your pool

Sovereign: ggs in pools

Luke (that's the name I remember, bah): ggs man, thanks for the Pit experience. Great first set.

DtJ Composer: ggs man

Congrats to Carls for taking the AM bracket too, I had a nice experience here, though It seems I've got some work to do if I want to be advancing.

Also, I played / /

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Kind of sad that i'm being congratulated on 2 wins in bracket. QQ I was expecting more of myself.

EDIT:Also I'll do shoutouts later. =p

 

[SoulPech]

If you die off the top and zair, you won't star KO, instead you die like you do off the side blastzones. I asked if you had ever rested someone, they zaired, and got back early and punished you.

Yes it has happened. I am also aware of this because of Quivo's Tink. It depends on certain percentages, character, and stage; there is a way to prevent them from doing that. I'l use the example I made earlier: Tink on FD will die around 80 percent with a dair + rest. He will have the time to Z-air. However, around 100 percent, he won't. I usually don't rest against Z-air characters anyway unless I catch them sleeping.

Also it looks as if we have some highschool drama coming from people who are in their early 20's. Way to go smashers, and we wonder why other fighting game communities treat us like 4 year olds.

^
10^s

 

[Player-1]

And have Reflex, Logic, Kain, and MJG all on the same side of the bracket? Yeah, good plan.

lmao, what hypocritical logic, you were just saying it was reflex's fault for getting a 2nd seed so the logic still stays the same he can move. And I said Reflex or DRN. Switch DRN with any of those players except for MJG since Zeton was also right next to him and problem is solved.

 

[Overswarm]

I'm not sure what you guys are talking about with seeding. Your location literally doesn't matter at round 3 and onwards.

Seeding first, then location. When you get to round 3, your location is irrelevant. Pretty standard TOing stuff.

If you're from Cincy and 1 seed, and I'm from Cincy and 2 seed, our location means very little.

 

[Player-1]

lmao, round 3 is not when location is irrelevant. Would like to see these standards of TOing.

 

[DeLux]

And have Reflex, Logic, Kain, and MJG all on the same side of the bracket? Yeah, good plan.

Reflex doesn't matter because he was a two seed out of pools.

Side One: DeLux, Kain, Logic, Judo, Kryz, FAE, MJG AZ
Side Two: Bpow, P1, DLA, Ally, Zino, Zeton, Fino, DRN

Regionally speaking, there's almost no reason to put P1 and DRN on the same side of the bracket. Trading P1/DRN for Kain/Judo/Me or something like that would have fixed a lot of the issues P1 is bringing up.

Retrospect results: Side one looks substantially more stacked than side two.
Side One: 9. DeLux, 2. Kain, 5. Logic, 13. Judo, 7. Kryz, 17. FAE, 3. MJG, 13. AZ
Side Two: 25. Bpow, 9. P1, 13. DLA, 1. Ally, 17. Zino, 17. Zeton, 4. Fino, 9. DRN

 

[Overswarm]

lmao, round 3 is not when location is irrelevant. Would like to see these standards of TOing.

Realistically, you don't seed by location at all. You seed by skill alone, and let the chips fall where they may. If we all lived in the same building and played every day, we'd do this. We just have to travel and it sucks driving all that way to play your friends, so we seed by location to allow travel to be worthwhile.

How far is too far?

Spoiler

In round 4 there were 8 total players, 4 matches.

At that point, if you've seeded by location rather than their actual pool seed, you've manipulated the bracket deliberately.

MJG and Kain were on one side of the bracket and played in R5. It would have been very easy to say "whoa, MJG and Kain are on the same side of the bracket! They're doubles partners and came together and are in the same clan! Let's move them!"

At that point, you're assuming no upsets for several rounds and you're basically giving one of the players a death sentence by sending them to ally... and not at random. You're changing matchups against high profile players at the apex of the event solely because "we play together a lot".

When you get to the top of a bracket, location is irrelevant, right?

Well third round is what determines who plays up there. Third round is always up for grabs. If it's possible, sure, seed by location. But you don't say "oh, this isn't right" and move people around to make sure location matches up. Because people have done that and a surprising thing happens: results stay consistent. Eerily, eerily consistent. Because they're always playing the same people, and always avoiding the same people, and they always end up playing at the same round in the bracket.

That's not good TOing; that's bracket manipulation to make people get the placements you think they should get. If Reflex gets a 2 seed, he could play someone from Alabama second round, let alone 3rd. Seeds first, location second.

You make sure that seeding is moved around correctly first, and then you make sure that second round isn't two people from the same region playing each other, if possible. When it comes to third round, you're actively manipulating the bracket for what you consider an 'optimal' result rather than hosting a competitive tournament.

 

[Player-1]

Like I said the seeding was just one quirk to the tournament. Seeding is usually a problem in most tournaments and that was the only problem I, personally, had so me saying the only problem with the tournament was seeding is a big compliment. This was the most fun tournament I've ever been to and everything.

 

[Labernash]

Good work BPOW and Dyno! Keep it up!

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Shoutouts when I am not on my phone!
One thing I was salty about was that I didnt get the highest score on Galaga. I was 10K points away and blew it all away. And everytime I tried to get the highest, someone was playing it. :\

I swore off Galaga a couple years ago. Once you get the killscreen/stage number loop, you never want to play it again.

 

[@TKbreezy]

My GOD THAT FIRST PAGE!

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Shoutouts later

I would have came but I don't see Rikku's name anywhere on this list.

HOW IS A MAN SUPPOSED TO QUENCH HIS THIRST WHEN HIS FAVORITE GATORADE ISN'T AT THE VENUE?!?!?!?

 

[Seagull Joe]

Red name? All I'm saying is Dedede sucks big giant donkey doodoo. Hades picked him up and day 1 he 3-stocked my wario in a set, and I lost a dollar to him, that was only righteously given back to me by my Pit timing him out in another set :D :D :D

So it's w/e, if she was losing to an ICs that couldn't CG then that'd be different lol.

(uses arrow loops to reverse 3-stock this image response thread)

Hades's is pretty bad looool. He always complains of losing to Kain in vs . Not sure how you lose to it.

I see alpha zealot

incoming moderating, careful boys

Looks like this was a fun event though, i watched some of the stream but the matches weren't interesting. Nice to see you bracket rigged a logic vs judo rematch, and i'm glad PS beat him and made whoever did that look dumb for doing so.

Although PS you can't be losing olimar dittos to fino, please step it up. You've now lost to every olimar main like ever except tin man

is BROKEN.

Either Roller needs Hooked on Phonics or there's a new part of the woman's anatomy I didn't know about.

Not like you would want to know anyways.

-Floored-

>______________________________________________>

i always miss the fun stuff

Fat Pink Fresh.

My GOD THAT FIRST PAGE!

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Shoutouts later

I would have came but I don't see Rikku's name anywhere on this list.

HOW IS A MAN SUPPOSED TO QUENCH HIS THIRST WHEN HIS FAVORITE GATORADE ISN'T AT THE VENUE?!?!?!?

-Dead-

Let's bring the hype:

Spoiler

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[Roller]

Seagull... You should have done that when **** was going down. Now it's just shoutouts+ an inane seeding discussion.

lol@666 users

 

[Zwarm]

No need to namesearch me here Seagull, I was already lurking hard.

 

[Player-1]

Realistically, you don't seed by location at all. You seed by skill alone, and let the chips fall where they may. If we all lived in the same building and played every day, we'd do this. We just have to travel and it sucks driving all that way to play your friends, so we seed by location to allow travel to be worthwhile.

What the ****? Realistically you don't seed by location at all? That's the exact opposite of what it should be. Theoretically we wouldn't seed by location. Realistically, we all don't live in the same building and have to travel so we seed by location.

How far is too far?

I think R4 would have been acceptable, but avoidable if possible.

Spoiler

In round 4 there were 8 total players, 4 matches.

At that point, if you've seeded by location rather than their actual pool seed, you've manipulated the bracket deliberately.

Never did I say location should take priority over a pool seed because it shouldn't. I'm just saying you could have easily done both by just switching DRN with some other first seed that wasn't Kansas on the other side of the bracket.

MJG and Kain were on one side of the bracket and played in R5. It would have been very easy to say "whoa, MJG and Kain are on the same side of the bracket! They're doubles partners and came together and are in the same clan! Let's move them!"

lmao, being doubles partners with someone shouldn't affect seeding at all.

At that point, you're assuming no upsets for several rounds and you're basically giving one of the players a death sentence by sending them to ally... and not at random. You're changing matchups against high profile players at the apex of the event solely because "we play together a lot".

Again, you're misunderstanding, location seeding doesn't take priority of a skill/pool seed, but you could have avoided both pretty easily.

When you get to the top of a bracket, location is irrelevant, right?

Not necessarily.

Well third round is what determines who plays up there. Third round is always up for grabs. If it's possible, sure, seed by location. But you don't say "oh, this isn't right" and move people around to make sure location matches up. Because people have done that and a surprising thing happens: results stay consistent. Eerily, eerily consistent. Because they're always playing the same people, and always avoiding the same people, and they always end up playing at the same round in the bracket.

uhhhh...what? Not really sure how this is relevant. Round 2 determines who plays in round 3...etc. etc. Reflex had to play Zeton R2, both incredible players playing that early. I wasn't upset about it because Reflex had a 2nd seed. It was possible to seed by location VERY easily.

That's not good TOing; that's bracket manipulation to make people get the placements you think they should get. If Reflex gets a 2 seed, he could play someone from Alabama second round, let alone 3rd. Seeds first, location second.

Third time I'm saying this in the post, both could have easily been fixed by swapping DRN with another first seed on the other side of the bracket. Never did I say that location seeds get priority over pool/skill seeds.

You make sure that seeding is moved around correctly first, and then you make sure that second round isn't two people from the same region playing each other, if possible. When it comes to third round, you're actively manipulating the bracket for what you consider an 'optimal' result rather than hosting a competitive tournament.

lmao, seeding a bracket so that Player A plays against Player B instead of Player C who both have the same seed for location purposes in just about any round of a tournament is definitely not bracket manipulation.


edit: Why are you (and roller) even trying to defend clowsui/hilt when one of them (don't remember who) already admitted it was their fault and we were right, just nothing could be done since tournament has already started?

 

[clowsui]

take a break from smashboards, find 29 people viewing my thread.

thanks for coming out guys. shoutouts soon. IMMEDIATE shoutouts to hilt, composer, rauleen, juu and WTP who all helped TO. you guys are amazing, i couldn't have asked for anything more.

next time i run a tournament, no AM bracket. this would've gone by way faster if it weren't for that imo

 

[Roller]

@P1, They were wrong. It was fine.

I'm not denying it's possible there may have been a combination which may have been a little better, 9 times out of 10 with a 30+ man bracket that is the case.. But they followed what rules they needed to, and did a solid job with it on the whole.

 

[DtJ SquidBurrMoneyBurr]

shoutouts to getting home at 6:30am, Mcdonalds parking lot 30 minute nap, to Michael Hamilton staying so young, and for Kryze blowing up rootbeer in the backseat.


real shoutouts later tonight though.

edit: Hey guys also shoutouts to bracket junkies, without them, this thread would be dead.

 

[Overswarm]

Because I disagree?

Seeding by location is a luxury, and one you don't take unless you have to past the first few rounds. If you play someone you know in R3, boo hoo. It happens.

You'll get better results that way than looking at a the top 32 of a bracket and seeing that they are divided by location artificially.

 

[Player-1]

@P1, They were wrong. It was fine.

I'm not denying it's possible there may have been a combination which may have been a little better, 9 times out of 10 with a 30+ man bracket that is the case.. But they followed what rules they needed to, and did a solid job with it on the whole.

I already said that the tournament was awesome and was ran fantasically, I just had one problem with it...why are you guys trying to make such a big deal out of it? No tournament is perfect, sorry if you believed without a doubt in your mind that it was

Because I disagree?

Seeding by location is a luxury, and one you don't take unless you have to past the first few rounds. If you play someone you know in R3, boo hoo. It happens.

You'll get better results that way than looking at a the top 32 of a bracket and seeing that they are divided by location artificially.

lmao, seeding by location is not a luxury, it's a duty of the TO. It shouldn't be happening when it can be EASILY AVOIDED. That's the point I'm trying to get across. Sometimes it's unavoidable, but it most certainly wasn't in this case.

And lmfao no you won't get better results that way, and who said dividing it by location artificially? You can divide by location randomnly....It's not hard to randomly swap DRN with one of the 1st seeds on the other side of the bracket.

 

[Overswarm]

lmao, seeding by location is not a luxury, it's a duty of the TO. It shouldn't be happening when it can be EASILY AVOIDED. That's the point I'm trying to get across. Sometimes it's unavoidable, but it most certainly wasn't in this case.

How is it not bracket manipulation?

And lmfao no you won't get better results that way, and who said dividing it by location artificially? You can divide by location randomnly....It's not hard to randomly swap DRN with one of the 1st seeds on the other side of the bracket.

Again, you're choosing that DRN plays an entire set of different people, and one of the people on the other side gets an easier or harder bracket because of it. Like it or not, sometimes good players get bad seeds and matchups are huge in this game. That one movement could have been huge.


We manipulate the bracket on purpose to seed by location because we believe the danger of manipulating the bracket is better than the irritation of having people from the same region play each other. That's it. It's deliberate bracket manipulation that we accept. That said, you can't push it very far without venturing into the "I'm manufacturing results" territory.

 

[DeLux]

If they were doing random based on pool seeding that's one thing. P1's concern is legitimate since there was considerable amounts of moving games around (at least I know I was moved two times from what I could tell) for location, and if they were already committing to doing that, it could have been done to avoid bracket ****** ATL South to kill off each other at a MW tournament more or less. It's not like it would have taken a billion moves. It would have taken like one move to put DRN somewhere else.

 

[Player-1]

How is it not bracket manipulation?

Hos is it?

Again, you're choosing that DRN plays an entire set of different people, and one of the people on the other side gets an easier or harder bracket because of it. Like it or not, sometimes good players get bad seeds and matchups are huge in this game. That one movement could have been huge.


We manipulate the bracket on purpose to seed by location because we believe the danger of manipulating the bracket is better than the irritation of having people from the same region play each other. That's it. It's deliberate bracket manipulation that we accept. That said, you can't push it very far without venturing into the "I'm manufacturing results" territory.

If someone gets an easier/harder time because DRN is moved to the other side then that sucks for them, but it's logically better since he still gets seeded with his pool seed taking first priority and the location seed still being put into affect.

 

[Exceladon City]

Apologies to Ralph for my abscence.
Shoutouts to Roller for always giving me something to laugh at.

That is all.

 

[Ori_bro]

Shoutouts to Excel not being there

 

[Roller]

 

[What's The Point]

Shoutouts to Composer for helping MI become a little gayer.

Apologies to Nope and Radium for not offering them a drink.

Shoutouts to Clowsui for making me appreciate Lain's driving.

 

[Hylian]

Logically, OS is 100% correct. Just because you play with someone a lot shouldn't give you an advantage over everyone else in the tournament if said person happens to be one of the best players there. You think major leagues seed by location? The only reason we are able to do this is because we are so grassroot. A tournament is meant to test skill, nothing else. Smashers are spoiled and don't really understand bracket theory very well.

 

[Player-1]

Logically , OS is 100% wrong, Hylian.

 

[Hylian]

Great argument.

 

[DeLux]

The bracket theory is understood >_>

It's just the TO's made a calculated effort to seed the bracket by location. Once that decision is made, the rest of logic and conjecture goes out the window.

If the overriding value was pool seeding and then location, P1 is simply arguing under the premise that location is an inherent value used for the bracket by TO decision. Since this was the case, he has a legit argument.

I'm sure he would not complain at all if the entire thing was purely randomized after pool results factored. But we don't do that because seeding by location is a value that helps encourage travel at marginal losses of theoretical skill evaluation accuracy because of the value tiers used to seed.

 

[DLA]

seeding by location is a value that helps encourage travel at marginal losses of theoretical skill evaluation accuracy because of the value tiers used to seed.

This.

 

[Ori_bro]

I thought this was a results thread where people do shoutouts. Why Have I seen such few shoutouts

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[DtJ Glyphmoney]

DtJ forever even though I didn't go

At least I was there in spirit

 

[DtJ Composer]

You weren't even there in spirit. :l


WTP I gave you a gift I have given to few people, please take good care of it.

 

[Infern Angelis]

I don't think people realize once OS has said something, its impossible to prove him wrong