VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[VA]

because when you get grabbed you die.

 

[ETWIST51294]

He hates it with every character not just Peach.

 

[VA]

by and large it's the same whoever you are.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

toma we're not referring to approaching with grab lol, fair grab is guarenteed on shield. You seem to have a handle on where he's punishing you, now provoke him and punish.

 

[ETWIST51294]

by and large it's the same whoever you are.

Jigglypuff?

 

[VA]

does way better to her than anyone else from grab, bar maybe ganon :/

 

[LumpyCPU...]

mix up the DA's with grabs or shield pressure or doing nothing.

dash dance? i'd say floating would be a better option. or throwing a turnip then following up

if you limit yourself to floating every chance you get, you'll fall into float habits and that fox will learn when to up smash and when to nair you.

PEACH CAN DASH DANCE lol
she can't do it like marth or falcon, but a mix up of dashdancing and short float wavelands can give you a lot of movement that's harder to read and just as advantageous as floating.

edit: i'll see if i can record some of my peach against a fox to try and illustrate all the mixups peach has that don't even involve attacking unless they take the bait. it's that HMW/KFC **** but with peach.

well it seems to me that the general consensus is that peach can't beat fox? Sorry but I don't accept matchup limitations...I think that if you're the better player, you will win every time. Approaching with peach's grab is just stupid. I hate peach's grab in general, the range is so worthless

Mr. AntiLimitation, you shouldn't be so quick to blacklist peach's grab. on fox it can lead to amazing things and mean all the difference against a fox. there are ways to grab but the better the fox is against peach, the harder it'll be to find that grab. peach can beat fox. it's not 10-0 fox's favor. it's far from that.

Also, im pretty sure Lumpy was referring to FC Fair (or nair) -> grab. Which is a very legit approach for Peach.

thank you for hinting that i might not be a complete idiot.
MY PEACH ISN'T BAD. haha

 

[LumpyCPU...]

look at me trying to be accepted on the peach boards. lol

 

[Rosedemon]

Get it gurl!

 

[HondaFoo]

I wish I was accepted on the Peach boards

 

[LumpyCPU...]

^^^ one day... maybe one day...

 

[Tomacawk]

if you limit yourself to floating every chance you get, you'll fall into float habits and that fox will learn when to up smash and when to nair you.

PEACH CAN DASH DANCE lol
she can't do it like marth or falcon, but a mix up of dashdancing and short float wavelands can give you a lot of movement that's harder to read and just as advantageous as floating.

edit: i'll see if i can record some of my peach against a fox to try and illustrate all the mixups peach has that don't even involve attacking unless they take the bait. it's that HMW/KFC **** but with peach.

Mr. AntiLimitation, you shouldn't be so quick to blacklist peach's grab. on fox it can lead to amazing things and mean all the difference against a fox. there are ways to grab but the better the fox is against peach, the harder it'll be to find that grab. peach can beat fox. it's not 10-0 fox's favor. it's far from that.

thank you for hinting that i might not be a complete idiot.
MY PEACH ISN'T BAD. haha

I never said that I don't use peach's grab. I said that I hate it because the range sucks. I realize how useful upthrow is, I didn't ask any questions about her grab, did I?
I also am the one saying that I don't accept matchups as being one sided so I'm kind of confused why you insinuated that I think fox is unbeatable. In fact, all I've done is ask how to beat fox's that abuse certain aspects of the matchup. Just by the question I have insinuated that fox is beatable.

Regardless, thank you everybody for the help, I'm still hoping a top peach will come in here and shed some light on me because knowing why you're being punished but being unable to change anything is really annoying.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

sorry. i come off like a jerk.

i thought you were saying her grab is worthless and someone else said you can only get a grab two ways or something.
i was just saying it's a HUGE help in some of these match ups. (i don't grab nearly enough with peach.)

and as for fox being unbeatable, i know you weren't saying he was, i was just kind of agreeing with you.
i tend to just type stuff on smashboards without too much proof reading or whatever. haha

sorry i'm kind of a jerk. idk why i'm even posting in these boards again when i barely play.

also i just noticed that you aren't tomahawk. lol or are you... tomocawk is too good!

 

[john!]

tomacawk it may help for you to post some vids so we can see how you approach the fox matchup.

 

[Rosedemon]

People dont seem to understand that the only reason the matchup isnt 100-0 is because there is no perfect fox.

If a fox is abusing what he needs to abuse, and just isnt messing up, it is **** near unbeatable, especially if hes better than you in any way.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

don't be ********, alan. lol

the match up between character A and B is 55-45 in A's favor.
if A plays "perfect" then it becomes 100-0 in A's favor.

i know how it feels to have a fox shut you down.
it looks bad on paper, too.
he can drill into shine or grab.
he can shine into drill, shine, upsmash, or grab.
he can combo her vertically and horizontally.
he can avoid peach completely while only lasering until she's at 120 percent then get one drill or shine that will end in upsmash. but nobody is perfect. if you're good enough with fox to do that consistently to every peach player on earth, you are amazing and deserve an award and prolly a blow job.

match up is bad, not impossible.

edit: there i go ranting like an ******* again. haha i love it.

 

[ConnorTheKid]

^^^^^*******

 

[LumpyCPU...]

CONNOR, I'M NOT GAY jeez

just look how manly my avatar is.

 

[trademark0013]

if you limit yourself to floating every chance you get, you'll fall into float habits and that fox will learn when to up smash and when to nair you.

which is why u dont fall into habits

Regardless, thank you everybody for the help, I'm still hoping a top peach will come in here and shed some light on me because knowing why you're being punished but being unable to change anything is really annoying.

i must be forgetting the original question, but if u know WHY ur being punished, shouldnt that be enuff to do something about it?

 

[LumpyCPU...]

i miss pink shinobi.

 

[ConnorTheKid]

CONNOR, I'M NOT GAY jeez

just look how manly my avatar is.

for the record I said "a$$hole" not "f@ggot"

 

[MacD]

So I don't exactly remember what your original question was, maybe ask whatever you are curious about again and i'll try and help, but here's my best shot

first, i hate peach's grab too cause when i run up grab i always seem to fall short, and it's depressing, whenever i do it against connor we both just kinda laugh cause it's sad

2nd, if you want you could do something like run up FC nair > something, that way it's not dash attack, you hit their sheild and if done properly, should leave you in control kinda

also if you are playing a really campy fox, go like FoD or yoshi's, going yoshi's takes out all his camping ability

this is my finals week so my answers might be a tad confusing/poorly written at times

 

[The Irish Mafia]

peaches grab range is one of the better ones lol

 

[LumpyCPU...]

for the record I said "a$$hole" not "f@ggot"

hahaha i never thought it said that. that's just my default response to everything you say, remember?

peaches grab range is one of the better ones lol

she runs so slowly that just running in for a grab is garbage.
it's not literally the range that is the issue.

 

[Cia]

omg death giggle at the end

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQgrvSkZARI

LOL!!!!!!!!!!! I want that as my ringtone

ETWIST51294 - uhh.. i could go on for ever about this. Long story short - I hate him because most of the CF community whines about how bad their character is and yet he's my worst match up. I probably dislike falcon mains more so than the character.

Connor - Censor dodge (right here IN MY OWN THREAD!!) again and i will down smash you.

 

[Tomacawk]

I'm not trippin' over it Lumpy, I was just trying to defend myself from your criticism

i must be forgetting the original question, but if u know WHY ur being punished, shouldnt that be enuff to do something about it?

not always. Step one to beating somebody is figuring out why you're getting hit, and what you're doing that leads you into that scenario. I've already established this: I was being hit because he was forcing me to approach and every approach I tried he was able to counter.
Step two is figuring out what you can do differently to change the outcome and get the first hit. This is where I'm having trouble. The matchup vs fox, being a disadvantage for peach, can lead to this dilemma. It's the same as playing game and watch vs marth. You may realize that you have to approach because the marth is abusing ftilt and fair to keep you away, but you may also realize that approaching is bad because he is able to dd and grab the only approaches gnw has (dash cancel dtilt and shffl fair)

Basically what I'm saying is that normally yes, since I know what I'm doing wrong I should be able to change it, but due to matchup limitations I'm forced to improvise and apply awkward/tricky/whatever you may call it tactics.

In regard to my original question, it is basically how do you approach a tight fox that never approaches you?
And that answer appears to be "you don't"
lol
mayhaps I should just gain weight and start sucking *****, I hear that's the key to learning peach

 

[ConnorTheKid]

VaNz, I'm sorry but I'm dsmash proof thanks to MacD.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

mayhaps I should just gain weight and start sucking *****, I hear that's the key to learning peach

HAHAHAHAHA

it's fat or gay. not fat and gay. get it right.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

lumpy, I played some friendlies today and I just took to spacing fairs and following up with grabs, more or less every time. There are many situations where people can use her grab, and people seem to be acting like there aren't. and that makes me a sad mafia

 

[LumpyCPU...]

yes. i know.

it feels bad when you just run in for a grab (i also play a lot of fox and he can get away with it), but i know there are ways to get grabs. i need to work grabs more into my game.

like when i fc nair someone's shield, i habitually go for the jab dsmash shield poke when i could go for grabs there (i think).

next time i play someone good for a while with peach, i'll focus on trying to get grabs then maybe i can actually contribute to this thread. ha

 

[Fly_Amanita]

HAHAHAHAHA

it's fat or gay. not fat and gay. get it right.

I believe the "or" in Ken's Peach theory should be inclusive, so I think what he's going for is acceptable. I mean, if the "or" weren't inclusive, then all of the good gay Peach players wouldn't be effeminate, which would just be weird.

 

[MacD]

but being effeminate assumes the person is straight, at least that's how i saw it

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I've never heard that. I believe "effeminate" just refers to a set of traits/behaviors characteristic of female gender roles regardless of a person's biological sex.

 

[john!]

haha wtf. we're using formal logic to dissect an insult.

 

[MacD]

great, now i feel like a horrible person cause i just did society's stereotyping that we've been discussing in women studies all quarter, we were supposed to stop that but whatever

i just assumed the gays are like that, but i also figured it's like, being gay is one option, metro another, just effeminate another (so in this case straight), fat another... idk, makes sense in my head

and since when is being effeminate an insult? be careful what you say, especially in the peach boards

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Eh, blame Ken for the ****ty wording of the theory. Your interpretation is fine, but I think it's more elegant to just treat the "or" as inclusive.

*vanishes*

 

[LumpyCPU...]

I mean, if the "or" weren't inclusive, then all of the good gay Peach players wouldn't be effeminate, which would just be weird.

good point, fly. (as usual)

and since when is being effeminate an insult? be careful what you say, especially in the peach boards

haha yes yes.

Eh, blame Ken for the ****ty wording of the theory.

it would've been brought up eventually even if not by ken.

it's a shame fly vanished. he's one of my favorite posters on the boards.

 

[john!]

Vanz hates us.

apparently the falcon boards are watching us...

 

[adumbrodeus]

Captain falcon boards have spies everywhere.

 

[Silly Kyle]

I'm going to become the next best Peach player in the world!!

<3 <3 <3

And speaking of Captain Falcon, I've been getting some pretty good Falcon experience from a player named GamerGuitarist7. He's pretty beast!