VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[adumbrodeus]

god forbid you have to be actually good at this game to win instead of letting mute city do it for you

It's not like peach is a good character anyway, what's wrong with her getting a nice CP?

 

[Rosedemon]

no, but its nice to have an advantage.

The thing is, its not a "slight" advantage. Being completely outclassed, but winning because they have nothing to hold onto is dumb.

money match?

Gurl you gone get messed up.

But how does a MM prove anything here?

 

[LumpyCPU...]

It's not like peach is a good character anyway, what's wrong with her getting a nice CP?

just be happy that they also took away corneria, pokefloats, and green greens and making stadium a counterpick. it makes foxes a lot less gay. also who were you playing against that wasn't banning mutecity anyway? lol

stuff

i watched the first season of that garbage show and lafayette was by far my favorite character.

 

[Smashjin]

It's not like peach is a good character anyway, what's wrong with her getting a nice CP?

Peach is a "good" character, just not the "best" character.

 

[adumbrodeus]

just be happy that they also took away corneria, pokefloats, and green greens and making stadium a counterpick. it makes foxes a lot less gay. also who were you playing against that wasn't banning mutecity anyway? lol

People ban Yoshi's story against me.

Peach is a "good" character, just not the "best" character.

Depends on how you define good. For example, imo, there is exactly one good character in Brawl *cue vomiting*.


Basically, I compare characters to other viable characters, and Peach is on the cusp, "ok".

 

[LumpyCPU...]

(in no order)
fox, falco, marth, sheik, and puff are great.

peach and falcon are good.

ic's, samus, doc, and ganon are just "ok".

everyone below them is bad/garbage.

 

[Smashjin]

People ban Yoshi's story against me.

So go to Brinstar...?

 

[Smashjin]

(in no order)
fox, falco, marth, sheik, and puff are great.

peach and falcon are good.

ic's, samus, doc, and ganon are just "ok".

everyone below them is bad/garbage.

Basically what I would've said.

 

[Cia]

so.. i got 2nd at my first tournament in months yesterday =D

 

[ConnorTheKid]

omg wtf it's hilarious how MacD gets like no respect even though he's one of the best Peaches right now.

edit: good job VaNz

 

[LumpyCPU...]

omg wtf it's hilarious how MacD gets like no respect even though he's one of the best Peaches right now.

edit: good job VaNz

QFT

everytime macd beats someone, people call it a bad loss. haha what if he's just good??

 

[Teczer0]

so.. i got 2nd at my first tournament in months yesterday =D

And we ***** in doubles mirite? =3

Seriously though, good **** on 2nd

 

[ConnorTheKid]

QFT

everytime macd beats someone, people call it a bad loss. haha what if he's just good??

that's true but I'm talking about in the Peach boards.

 

[Kira-]

Lol @ someone thinking they can beat MacD.

Btw news flash: everybody thinks their own character sucks.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I'm just here to continue the chain of Socal posters.

 

[MacD]

good stuff vanz, let me guess, darc got first? you better beat him before i do it for you

and kira, but our character actually sucks, it's why we are so catty

 

[Tomacawk]

I don't think so Kira. It's mainly just falcon and peach and pichu players (because ICG is the only one and all he does is talk about pichu)
also I played a fox recently that was giving me a ton of trouble because he was SHL spamming me and he was very good at reading my approaches, if I approached short of him I got punished and if I approached past him he just naired right onto me
what can I do? approach and wd back dtilt/dsmash? I tried fc nairs at varying heights, I usually got naired but had a little success

 

[The Irish Mafia]

macd is better than you
oh i'm a little late, can I at least get on the "peach sucks" train?

yeah float cancels, ****ing hate those things, and her ablility to ledgeguard is like nonexistant right guys

right?

toma use turnips and armada says wd back a lot. if fox is nairing you that's your way in, cc dsmash that ****. overshoot dash attack and fair aproaches, screw around with more fake outs. in the end, if you know he's reading you, try to provolke him to do something you can predict and then punish accordingly.

 

[Tomacawk]

toma use turnips and armada says wd back a lot. if fox is nairing you that's your way in, cc dsmash that ****. overshoot dash attack and fair aproaches, screw around with more fake outs. in the end, if you know he's reading you, try to provolke him to do something you can predict and then punish accordingly.

I really hate grabbing turnips because it means I take a bunch of laser damage and on some maps he can punish me just off of reflex
he was shielding most of my dash attacks so I stopped doing that. I had trouble doing a "sneaky" one close enough to him to get him when he wasn't ready, too. Whenever I got that close I would get hit.
and he was also landing his nairs low enough that shine beat cc dsmash. if I approached with a low fc fair then I would get naired out of the air

I have never had trouble with this matchup before but his dd and nair-work was so solid that I was unable to figure out any alternatives to consistently take the first hit

 

[Rosedemon]

Well it sounds like he knows the matchup extremely well, and theres not much you can do but wait for him to mess up. The only reason we have a fighting chance is because no fox is perfect.

 

[john!]

stop johning about peach being a bad character, we aren't the marth or falcon boards lol.

in my experience you have to be very fast and technical to stand a chance against a good fox. just keep moving and punish HARD.

 

[Rosedemon]

I think you misinterpreted my post. In no way am i saying shes a bad character, but you have to understand the futility players feel when they playing against a technical fox who knows the matchup.

I played about a 30 match session with Phil at the tourny last night, and the only reason I was able to win was because he didnt know how to escape my chain throws. (FD only for about 40 minutes, lmao) Approaching him was HORRIBLE. Tried low dairs/nairs/fairs, tried turnip -> fair, tried dash attack, tried low FC bairs. If hes on point, its not a matter of my approach. Its a matter of when he decides to mess up, and that can drive people crazy.

 

[trademark0013]

The thing is, its not a "slight" advantage. Being completely outclassed, but winning because they have nothing to hold onto is dumb.



Gurl you gone get messed up.

But how does a MM prove anything here?

its also dumb getting waveshined to hell


and MMs are the answer to everything




@john!: u dont have to be fast and technical to beat fox. u control space and dont let fox do w/e he wants.

wait, who DOESNT respect macd?

 

[HondaFoo]

I respect macd more than I respect myself!

I've also been known to rock the blue Peach + macd tag

 

[DoH]

omg death giggle at the end

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQgrvSkZARI

 

[LumpyCPU...]

I really hate grabbing turnips because it means I take a bunch of laser damage and on some maps he can punish me just off of reflex
he was shielding most of my dash attacks so I stopped doing that. I had trouble doing a "sneaky" one close enough to him to get him when he wasn't ready, too. Whenever I got that close I would get hit.
and he was also landing his nairs low enough that shine beat cc dsmash. if I approached with a low fc fair then I would get naired out of the air

I have never had trouble with this matchup before but his dd and nair-work was so solid that I was unable to figure out any alternatives to consistently take the first hit

if he's shielding all your dash attacks then you can probably get away with grabbing.

to be more general, if fox is aggressive, just run away and dsmash lol. when he get's used to that you just have to wait for him to make mistakes (sad but it's a legit strategy). short hop away a lot and occasionally use your second jump to come back and bair him. it will catch him off guard at first and you can mix it up between bairing or just wavelanding back to grab or shield or whatever.

and if he's campy (aka smart) he won't follow you. he'll just laser. those are the kind of foxes you have to dash dance. it's hard as ****, but peach can dash dance really well in some match ups. against a laser camping fox, you gotta dash dance in that grey area where he won't feel safe lasering. on a big stage like dream land, if he runs and lasers with out error, he wins. lol simple as that. try to predict/learn/read where he'll retreat to when you throw out an aerial. a lot of foxes know that when you start a midlevel float, they can just nair you instantly. when you see that he'll do that, start a float then imidiately airdodge/waveland down/away and dsmash.

i'm not the best peach in the world but i was playing kfc's fox in this match up a bit recently and i wasn't doing too bad. this is all off the top of my head so feel free to question it and correct all my terrible advice. haha

goodluck.

 

[adumbrodeus]

So go to Brinstar...?

Point is I'm a marth main, I didn't have to worry about mute city getting banned against me, and if people did, I'd just pick Yoshi's and keep marth.

 

[VA]

YOSHI'S IS BROKEN FOR MARTH, and other stuff from 2006.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

it may not be broken but he does win there.

 

[adumbrodeus]

No, I'm just a marth main, so given the opportunity, I'd prefer to CP for my marth instead of my peach.

 

[VA]

I don't really buy into CPs that much. It's dependent on player style and preference. So you can't really say much about it if they are on the neutrals list. I dislike certain match ups on certain stages that others like. For instance I don't like Brinstar or Mute City and have used them like once each in the 3-4 years I've competed. I also like match ups on stages that other people don't necessarily like, such as marth on YS.

Marth main Peach second? Ew.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Yep


To further add to my evil, I enjoy timing people out.

 

[noodles]

if mk can have rainbow cruise in brawl mute city should be fine

*flees

 

[trademark0013]

I really hate grabbing turnips because it means I take a bunch of laser damage and on some maps he can punish me just off of reflex
he was shielding most of my dash attacks so I stopped doing that.

how do u take a bunch of lazr dmg? it seems u may be picking turnips and throwing them repeatedlt which would be the only way. if u pull a turnip then float towards them, u'll be taking no more lazr dmg than usual

mix up the DA's with grabs or shield pressure or doing nothing.

and if he's campy (aka smart) he won't follow you. he'll just laser. those are the kind of foxes you have to dash dance.

a lot of foxes know that when you start a midlevel float, they can just nair you instantly. when you see that he'll do that, start a float then imidiately airdodge/waveland down/away and dsmash.

dash dance? i'd say floating would be a better option. or throwing a turnip then following up

as for this there are a few things:
1. switch up the float height
2. move backwards so he undershoots his ariel and ur free for punish
3. fair/nair

 

[Tomacawk]

well it seems to me that the general consensus is that peach can't beat fox? Sorry but I don't accept matchup limitations...I think that if you're the better player, you will win every time. Approaching with peach's grab is just stupid. I hate peach's grab in general, the range is so worthless

vanz/doh/macd, any comments on my situation?

 

[VA]

woops .

 

[VA]

EDIT: I read your post wrong.

My advice is to use some mindgames for getting in your DAs. They are essential in the match up. If you can't get them in cos he shields, trying shielding before you get to him and wdashing out back or forward to DA. If you go back you don't have to commit, and if you go forward you have time to get behind his shield if he doesn't drop it. Seeing your shield should make him drop his if he was expecting your DA.

Anyway I hope that helps.

 

[Rosedemon]

Did you guys REALLY miss DoH's post. Im sorry, but the DoH laugh is the best thing i've ever heard.

Ever.

well it seems to me that the general consensus is that peach can't beat fox? Sorry but I don't accept matchup limitations...I think that if you're the better player, you will win every time. Approaching with peach's grab is just stupid. I hate peach's grab in general, the range is so worthless

vanz/doh/macd, any comments on my situation?

Well of course if you're the better player you'll win. Thats because you're the better player.

But when we're giving advice, we're assuming everything is equal. If its not, then certain things wont apply.

The difference between playing random Fox main and Lucky is like a Earth and Jupiter. If the Fox is ON POINT, you're not supposed to win. Its not that you're bad, its just that Fox has the tools to beat Peach, and if they're used properly, he WILL beat her.

Also, im pretty sure Lumpy was referring to FC Fair (or nair) -> grab. Which is a very legit approach for Peach.

 

[VA]

Peach can set up grab in only two ways:

1. Dash Attack on the correct % (fast fallers only) = Grab
2. Shield pressure into grab. Condition them into shielding from FC aerials and you can get a grab.

Besides that grab set ups are usually less than optimal.

You can of course shield grab and there are situations involving edge play where grabs arise but to generally I think what I say here is true.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Vanz, why do you hate Falcon?